Aid to foreign automakers

[firehog]

Yep, unions can certainly negotiate themselves out of a job!

[DODGE57HEMI]

There are two sides to this coin! Yes it sucks that the Americans are outsourcing work to foreign counrtys but when that country can put together a better product than us lazy Americians can and for lower $$$$$ who can blame them!

[MooseHenden]

I think it is time for the unions to negotiate down a bit. If they don't they are going to be out of jobs. I would rather have a few cuts than no job. Right now there are people being paid to sit around by the big three. It was all part of collective bargaining when things were better. The companies had to have a certain amount of employees whether they could actually have them working or not. Along with this the executives need a pay cut also. If they cut their salaries the same percentage as the workers that would be a good faith step in my mind. But will we see any of this??? I doubt it. There is a nice medium somewhere between companies treating people like slaves and employees thinking that the company owes them the world just because they show up at work. My prediction... The big 3 will declare bankruptcy, get out of Michigan and move to somewhere they don't have to hire unions. I think it would be alot easier if they sat down and reorganized.

[firehog]

Couldn't agree more or said it any better......don't get me wrong, I'm a union guy all the way. But, our local would never even consider some of the things the UAW has in their contract. I think it is absurd and irresponsible and now they are feeling the repurcussions of being greedy. There is a balance. If everyone was honest and upfront it would be a better world, for sure!

[jumbofrank]

The only incentive they needed to build my plant was World War II. It was a tank plant and people still refer to it as the tank plant. After the war it was several different GM divisions over the years. It was over 1.5 million square feet when I worked there and now part of the building is still there but they don't make cars anymore. It took the UAW over 70 years to get the benefits the workers have now but every few years they give up a little more to try to hang onto jobs. It didn't matter how many pay cuts and other concessions the union gave GM, it was still cheaper to have cars built in Mexico and Asia by people who can't afford to buy a car so they started closing plants here. Not just old plants like mine either. Meanwhile the top executives get millions of dollars for mis-managing the business and no matter how bad they screw things up they get multi-million dollar bonuses. European car companies are moving production to the US because Americans don't make as much money.

If you saw all the amputees and other people injured in my plant maybe you wouldn't think we're overpaid. I've lost a few body parts myself but mine was to sugically treat injuries from work. I got lucky. This guy they started calling Lefty lost his entire right hand except his thumb and a useless piece an inch wide in front of his wrist. Another guy lost even more of his hand than that. Another guy had his leg shattered in so many pieces the doctors couldn't count them. The estimate was that his leg was in 300 pieces. We had a giant air tank shoot though the roof in one part of the building and come crashing down in a different department. We had dies weighing as much as a buldozer fall from an overhead crane right next to people and go through the floor crushing 18" steel I-beams on the way down. I say when people work around that kind of stuff every day they deserve a good paycheck. The military gives people in risky situations combat pay and car companies should pay more when peoples lives are at constant risk too.

[firehog]

"Meanwhile the top executives get millions of dollars for mis-managing the business and no matter how bad they screw things up they get multi-million dollar bonuses."



That's the root of the problem, I think we can all agree. I am certainly not saying the UAW employees are overpaid, don't take risks or don't deserve the pay and benefits they get. However, I don't understand how some people supposedly get paid for not coming to work, or keep their benefits long after retirement. Keep in mind I am ignorant of the whole UAW thing as I don't know anyone in "the business", so it's nice to here an insiders view. I only know what I have read and watched on tv so you know how that goes! The hardest thing for me to comprehend, though, is how executives can receive any kind of a bonus for "failing"! I have seen it first hand, though. For example, we are having money woes like everyone else here at our fire department. We tried to pass a levy in November so we could be solvent next year. It failed. The people want to know why our administration is managing their money properly.....we couldn't agree more as a union and opposed the levy. We want them held accountable. The funny thing is, if you call it funny, is that the administration gave themselves a 3% wage increase only two weeks after the levy failed, retroed all the way back for a year! And they wonder why we have a bad taste in our mouth!

[TLC]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>The big 3 will declare bankruptcy, get out of Michigan and move to somewhere they don't have to hire unions. I think it would be alot easier if they sat down and reorganized. </end quote></div>

They can stay in Michigan, Thats the beauty of the bankruptcy,once you do it and restructure, the UAW and there outrageous contact deals are instantly and legally null and void.

Just like United Air lines did.

You cant even get rid of a UAW/CAW worker with only 2 years employment. They pay them here in Ontario $10,000 severance and give the a $30,000 bonus for a purchase of a new car or truck.

For the rest of the world if your told to leave after two years at any other work place they just show you the door and thats it,it's over.

[bakford]

Great Posts jumboFrank. It's not easy working on the lines and dangerous. We have had a few deaths. Fingers cut off, burns and broken bones. Seen overhead cables snap with 100,000 lbs. draw dies and batteries explode. That's the job I chose. There are a few "bad apples" at every workplace. Most of my co-workers and myself just want to provide for our families ( and ride quads ).

[MooseHenden]

I've had various injuries from my years as a carpenter. Half cut thumb with circular saw, mangled finger tip with table saw, nails all the way through my foot a couple times, many cuts that required stitching, etc. As bakford said, "that's the job I chose". I didn't drive up my price with each injury. If the facilities were as bad as has been stated I think I would have learned a new trade. I know how hard that can be. I guess my views on unions are not great. My father (who was a Korean War vet) was shot at for crossing a picket line even though his part of General Electric was not a union area. I have a friend who is a union carpenter. Because he is a finish carpenter, he can't do framing, get his own wood, or anything that is not finish carpentry. I just can't understand this kind of thing. As I said before there is a happy medium between the companies being slave drivers and people who expect the companies to go broke so they can have bloated benefits packages. With the economy being the way it is, companies are going to have to cut back. They should cut back the higher ups pay if they are failing or fire them. The same can be said of workers who aren't working. They should have pay cuts or be fired. I would still rather take a cut I can survive with than lose my job completely.