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Old 03-01-2006, 02:02 PM
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Default Polaris 2 stroke oil

Does anyone know what weight the blue non synthetic 2 stroke polaris oil is.
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Old 03-02-2006, 10:19 AM
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Default Polaris 2 stroke oil

The following article may help you in your oil selection process:

Choosing an oil - This Article is from Snow Tech Magazine

Although this article was written for snowmobiles it also pertains to 2 stroke ATVs

Many snowmobilers still feel it necessary to use oil of their snowmobile brand name. Pull into a gas stop and the rider of one brand acts like it's the end of the world if he doesn't have his "brand" of oil. These same riders will use no-name brand belts, spark plugs, and other odd parts, but when it comes to oil they've been brain washed into thinking that their warranty is void if they don't use that oil. For many years this was sound advice, but it has turned into nothing more than a myth. The fact of the matter is this; you do not have to use the OEM oil to have your engine warranted. This does not mean that an oil related failure would be covered. It means there are many excellent quality oils to choose from, and that you are not obligated to use the OEM oil to keep your warranty in force. Regardless of what your dealer tells you, this is a fact. Now, if and when engine damage does occur some dealers like to look at the oil in your tank and try to convince you this was the cause. Don't buy it. Short of oil pump failure or oil line blockage, very, very few failures on engines operating at stock rpm levels are oil quality related. Once you've made the decision that you might consider another oil, how do you know what's fair, good, and the best? Maybe this is the reason so many stick with their name brand. They know it's good and they've eliminated any guesswork. After all, OEM oils are top quality and designed to keep a stock engine in good shape at standard RPM. If you add a well-designed exhaust system or optimum-porting job to your engine, the horsepower will jump 20 to 30 percent, as well as the engine RPM. The snowmobile's oil injector pump can be adjusted to its maximum setting to increase oil volume, or put more oil in the tank premix, but this is substituting quantity where quality should be. There are some really good motorcycle oils. Why not use those? Motorcycle engines never see the abuse snowmobile engines go through, and low temp pour point becomes a factor with motorcycle oil. When the temperature drops to zero or below, an injector pump may be waiting for oil that will never flow through the oil lines. Secondly, even if you happen to premix motorcycle oil, you may need the help of one of your friends to pull the starter rope. That's because the oil down in the crank bearing has mutated into something closer to "road tar", the result from a -20 below zero night. What kind of factors should you consider when choosing an oil for your snowmobile? Let's cover a few. Cost: This seems to be the biggie. Everyone wants a good product for a fair price. That's called value. Why spend more than you have to, and why buy a better product than what you need? What do you need? Does price indicate quality? Not really. It could, but don't count on it. Protection: This should be the paramount factor. Long term protection is what you desire, but how do you know? If you buy the OEM brand, and then you have peace of mind - you know it is good stuff.

Since the snowmobile industry doesn't have their own rating or certification method, we rely on the TC-W3 rating as used by the marine industry. A TC- W3 rating indicates at least a minimum performance standard has been met. But that standard is for outboards, not sleds. It is generally accepted that oil with a TC-W3 certification will be good enough for the average engine in average conditions. Start cranking out horsepower and ride in below zero conditions and the need for a quality product increases. Anytime you modify the engine, add pipes, and produce more horsepower you should consider using higher quality oil. In this case, quantity can not be a substitute for quality. Pour point: This is one of the major factors to consider. Many outboard oils do not have very low pour points. When considering a TC-W3 oil, make sure it has a low pour point of at least -40 F. The pour point is a rating indicating the temperature the oil will no longer flow AT ALL. This means you can not use oil all the way down to the pour point. An oil with a rated pour point of -40 should actually flow down to about -30 F. If you ride consistently in temps colder than that, you had better invest in some synthetic oil that pours down to temps even lower. A word of caution: One method of making a lower pour point is to increase the amount of "solvent" as a dilutent in the oil. This makes a lower pour point, but decreases the actual amount of oil per given amount. Our flow testing of 100% synthetic oils showed quite a difference when the mercury drops down to -40 in comparison to plain "outboard oil". .Phillips Injex has turned out to be a favorite from the "multi-purpose" oils as it flows better at cold temps than what some of the synthetics did! We have consistently used Injex down to -30 F with no problems. Availability/Mix-ability: Is the oil compatible with other brands, and how available is it? These two are tied together. By virtue of its TC-W3 designation it is compatible with any other TC-W3 rated oil. And for oils that don't have this rating? We haven't seen a "present day readily available oil" that causes any type of mixing problem in a long time. In fact, we went through something to the tune of over 50 gallons of snowmobile oil this past season, and intentionally poured some of EVERYTHING that we had (at one time or another) into one machine. Ran it down to -30. Seemed to work perfectly fine, but then none of it was junk lubricant, either. Non-scientific, but we know of plenty of riders who did the same. Draw your own conclusions. Smoke & Smell: This is another of our considerations. We could have oil with excellent protection with a rock bottom price, but if it smokes too much and stinks, we'll find something else. That's why we say it is hard to find a better smelling lubricant that Klotz Techniplate. The sweet smell of power? Image is everything, and your buddies will be impressed. Many of the synthetics have less smoke and smell better than what you're using. We encourage you to buy low smoke oil that does not stink so the non- snowmobiler's can't be offended. Seriously. A good place to be pro-active instead of reactive. A recent study performed by the Southwest Research Institute compared OEM petroleum based oil, biodegradable synthetic oil, semi-synthetic oil, and an isobutylene based synthetic oil. The oils were compared on a basis of the amount of oil smoke particulate matter in the emissions. The isobutylene based synthetic had 55% less smoke than the petroleum based oil, 90% less smoke than the biodegradable synthetic, and 31% less smoke than the semi-synthetic. So if you're looking for oil with less smoke, the isobutylene-based synthetic is a proven winner. Color: That's right, color! Sounds stupid, but some people will buy oil (or not buy it) based on color. In reality, color now days has ZERO to do with performance. Dyes are added simply as a matter of identification, or to add color when premixed with gas. It is a matter of personal preference. We like purple or red oils better than green oil. (We like blondes better than red heads too.) Carbon/Clean Burning: oil experts say this can't be pinned on oil alone, that there are several other factors that go into this. We do know when chunks of carbon flake off the top of the piston it is time to try a different oil. Or, when the exhaust power valve gets so gummed up that it doesn't slide any longer a change would be wise. We have been most selective with our RAVE equipped Rotax engines for this reason. Even when running a 100% synthetic oil, removal and cleaning of the RAVE valves is a good idea every 1000 miles to keep them clean and free moving. A lot of the decision goes into trust. Factor in what you hear and read, but make your own decisions based on your wants and needs. A name brand oil with a low pour point at a good price you can get your hands on will likely be just fine in your stock sled. If you are comfortable with the smell, smoke, price, availability, and do not find an excessive amount of carbon build up, you're set. If you have increased the output of your engine above stock, protect the investment and run a higher quality oil. Do not let someone convince you to use their oil to maintain the warranty. While it is true this gives them one less factor to consider, it is not a requirement. During the '97-'98 season we ran Phillips Injex (petroleum based) in our stock sleds, Torco Synthetic (isobutylene based synthetic) in the Rotax sleds, and Klotz Techniplate (synthetic based) in our piped sleds. We've tried several others, some good, some not as good. We decided to use these three based on cleanliness of burning, pour points, availability, and (most importantly) protection for the application. We could have likely run other oils in any of the sleds and not "seem" to have a problem. Just like I could ride without a helmet and might not have a problem. I wear a helmet. TWO-CYCLE ENGINE LUBRICANTS David J. Pardo - Director of Technical Services GOA Company (North Coast oil, Inc.) May 1, 1997 Introduction: The North American market has experienced a tremendous sales increase for all types and sizes of two-cycle engines, from outboards to string trimmers. With this sales growth, it has become increasingly apparent that different styles of two-cycle engines require varied levels of lubricant protection depending on engine size, use, and cooling. The development and improvement of two-cycle oils for the North American market has been influenced and driven by WATER-COOLED outboard engine lubrication requirements.

In contrast, the AIR-COOLED motorcycle engine dominates Japanese requirements, while both the motorcycle and chainsaw engine drive the European market. AIR-COOLED Mopeds Motorcycles, Chain Saws, Snowmobiles, Lawn Mowers, String Trimmers, Automobiles, Golf Carts, Motor Scooters, Brush Cutters, All-Terrain Vehicles (ATV's), Portable Pumps & Generators WATER-COOLED Outboard Motors Most Personal Water Vehicles WATER-COOLED Vs AIR-COOLED LUBRICANT REQUIREMENTS Background: The types of performance required of any two-cycle engine oil (Table 1) has not changed over time; only the degree of anti-seizure performance, piston cleanliness, smoking, etc. New generations of two-cycle oils are designed to satisfy higher demands presented by newer high-output engines. The choice of oil for the American two-cycle engines has been largely controlled by marketplace availability. In the 1960's motorcycle engine oils were used with great success. The introduction of injectors in outboards, lighter two-cycle oils were needed for fluidity and BIA (now the NMMA) TC-W® oils were introduced. Table 1 - Required Performance of Two-Cycle Engine oils Provide excellent lubricity. Reduce wear on rings and cylinders. Prevent piston seizures. Provide appropriate lubrication to engine bearings. Prevent fouling or pre-ignition of spark plugs. Burn cleanly without leaving deposits in the combustion chamber, exhaust port, or other parts of the exhaust system. Leave little dirt on pistons. Keep varnish and deposits from forming and keep piston rings free. Make little exhaust smoke and odor. Possess anti-corrosion and anti-rust properties. Mix easily with fuel. Have good flow properties. The two-cycle motorcycle engine disappeared from the American scene in the late 1970's due to governmental exhaust regulations. The demand for better air-cooled lubricants in turn slowed with this loss. This left the outboard motor as the primary American two-cycle engine. Outboard growth was dramatic in the 1980's and with it went most lubricant research. But, the explosive demand for small lawn and garden two-cycle engines, and the resurgence of the snowmobile industry, in the mid to late 1980's, required a reassessment of lubricants for air-cooled two-cycle applications. The frequency of carbon buildup often is determined by the quality of the local fuel supply, the particular characteristics of the engine and how the engine is used. Motors that run under heavy load are more prone to carbon deposits. "Three of the four major outboard manufacturers (Suzuki is the exception) have acknowledged at least a few engine failures traced to carbon buildup in the past two years, a situation they blame on a combination of poor-quality gasoline and suspect outboard lubricants." ("Save Your Outboard's Life", Charles Plueddeman, Boating Magazine). Unfortunately, it's all but impossible for a boat owner to detect carbon problems before engine failure is imminent. According to Yamaha, you may notice that your outboard becomes hard to start or spins unevenly while starting if the ring land becomes contaminated. Once the rings sticks in the ring land, however, it cannot hold a film of oil on the cylinder and scuffing will occur. Two-cycle formula selection must be based on maximum cylinder temperatures. Outboard two-cycle engines have very effective cooling systems, using low temperature lake or sea water, that keep ring belt temperatures between 100-275F. Organic additive technology also insures clean burning, which is of paramount importance in outboards due to their pre-ignition sensitivity. Water-cooling reduces the cylinder wall temperature and makes piston seizure less likely than in air-cooled engines. This makes possible higher engine speeds. In an air-cooled unit, engine speed at maximum output ranges from 5,000 to 7,000 RPM. Water-cooling allows maximum engine speeds from 7,000 to 10,000 RPM. This trend toward faster speeds and higher output is expected to continue with oil film formation an extremely important factor in wear control. With the introduction of unleaded gasoline back in 1985, problems not apparent in the old days began to appear. In four-stroke automotive engines, valve recession, intake valve deposits, and injector nozzle clogging took place creating the need for new additives. In two-stroke outboards piston ring sticking and piston scuffing escalated. It has also been found that some of the commercial unleaded gasoline contributed more to carbon deposits than others. In its mild form, piston rings were cold stuck in the ring grooves. This caused hard starting and rough idle due to a loss in compression pressure. In its severe form, the rings were hot stuck in the ring grooves. This caused poor engine performance from the loss of combustion pressure and shortened engine life from piston scuffing. Air-cooled engines such as: chain saws, weed cutters, snow blowers, leaf blowers, and most other pieces of air-cooled portable power equipment, are run in short bursts at varying speeds. In these applications, heat dissipates during periods of idle. Reduced engine life due to extremely high ring belt temperatures using water-cooled, low temperature, TC-W® type fluids; are often reported. In addition, engine builders continue their never-ending quest to increase an engine's power density or specific power (output per cubic inch displacement.) During motorcross races, using the latest high-output technology in both motorcycle and snowmobile engines, race teams experienced reduced power output, especially toward the end of the race. After significant research, this loss of power has been generally attributed to increased cylinder temperatures, caused by greater power density output, and increased Rpm's. To reduce cylinder temperatures, a water jacket system was installed in these high-performance motorcycles and snowmobile engines. This allowed builders to increase RPM speeds by 30%. This increase in Rpm's in-itself resulted in a significant increase of specific power output, while the water jacket keeps cylinders under critical temperature levels. This water jacket system soon found its way into the general marketplace, and spurred current sales promotions of high-output engines, especially in the snowmobile industry. It must be noted that, although these water jacket systems may reduce engine cylinder temperatures under low operating conditions, they were specifically designed to control peak cylinder temperatures at these new higher output Rpm's, and are usually found only in the highest output engines. In air-cooled two-cycle engines, cylinder temperatures average 300-350F. Normal exhaust port temperatures range from 1,200 to 1,600F. Some high output small engines have seen exhaust port temperatures measured as high as 2,000F. Ashless dispersant, typical of TC-W® type fluid formulas are not thermally stable at these ring belt temperatures. No matter what the marketing claims are, there is significant evidence that even the best TC-W3® formulas are marginal, at best, for extreme temperature/output air-cooled two-cycle engine applications. This conclusion is based upon industry studies which indicate that the high temperatures encountered by air-cooled engines make them susceptible to premature failure when using oil designed for low temperature, water-cooled outboard engines. As a result of high temperature wear in air-cooled engines, increasing numbers of engine manufacturers are prohibiting the use of all TC-W® type oils. For example, Bombardier specifically prohibits the use of any NMMA TC-W, TC-WII OR TC-W3® outboard motor oils or other ashless 2 stroke-cycle oils in SEA-DOO® watercraft, Sea-Doo® JET BOATS and SKI-DOO® products. In addition, most chainsaw manufacturers worldwide specifically prohibit the use of TC-W® type outboard oils. These manufacturers demand oils that contain a low-ash, natural metallic detergent, delivering much higher temperature engine cleanup and cylinder scuffing protection. Something that TC-W3® ashless oils cannot provide. Thermally stable, deposit wear control metal-organic compounds are needed for these extreme conditions. In addition, replacing bright stock base oils with a specially balanced combination of polyisobutylene dramatically increases piston scuffing protection as well as reducing carbon deposits and exhaust smoke. For more information regarding polyisobutylene in two-cycle oil see BP Chemicals PIB Applications. But, this metallic component is simply not designed for use in water-cooled engines. The water-cooled engines in boats are run at constant speeds for extended periods of time. As a result, the metal particles in a low-ash oil can heat to the "glow point" as the engine reaches extreme temperatures. The oil's fuel component could preignite and cause engine knock and piston burns. So, in most of these applications, ashless oil is the correct choice. TWO-CYCLE GASOLINE ENGINE LUBRICANT CLASSIFICATIONS Water-Cooled Outboard Engines America has experienced a rapid change in two-cycle oils since 1960. The first ashless additives for outboards were introduced in the early 1960's. By 1970 the Boating Industry Association (BIA) defined the first technical requirements for an outboard motor oil, calling approved products TC-W®. In 1980 lube injection was introduced for outboards and became widespread by 1984 necessitating a lubricant upgrade. In 1988 the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA), formerly the BIA, issued TC-WII lubricant requirements. This change was a minor change from TC-W® requirements and was specifically aimed at the Variable Rate oiling (VRO's) injector fluidity problems. Testing criteria for TC-WII® did not account for numerous field problems reported using NMMA TC-WII® approved fluids. Although not all TC-WII® oils experienced trouble, a new TC-W3® specification was quickly established in April 1993, and included additional tests to eliminate these problems. This category insures greater protection against high temperature wear, gelling problems and the adverse affects of common, low grade "pipeline" gasoline. NMMA TC-W3® is now required for all outboard engines. When a outboard oil has been tested and meets all of NMMA's requirements, a license is granted. The license permits the manufacturer to display the NMMA symbol on its product with the designation TC-W3®. The marketer's license, a six digit number starting with 3 or R, is also displayed on the container. An owner's manual will tell you to look for oils with the NMMA symbol. The warranty statement in the manual is the only warranty, which is official and a mechanic or dealer has no authority to supersede this statement. Federal Law Prohibits dealers/mechanics to require the use of and OEM or specific brand of oil unless the dealer/mechanic can prove to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) that, (1) no one else has an oil which will work, or (2) they must provide the oil to you free of charge for the required warranty period. See Magnuson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act. Air-Cooled Land Based Engines In 1988 the American Petroleum Institute (API) and the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) defined oil designations for different two-cycle engine oil applications. These included: API TA - Asian Use, High Ash oil API TB - European Use, Medium Ash oil API TC - North American Use, Low Ash Air-Cooled Engine oil API TD - North American Use, Ash-Free Outboard, Water-Cooled Engine oil. Fluidity of the lubricant was defined by SAE under the following system: SAE 1 - For high ambient temperature areas (African, Arabian, Asian tropics) SAE 2 - For moderate to high ambient temperatures (southern US and Europe) SAE 3 - For moderate to low ambient temperatures and water-cooled injector engines (northern US and Canada) SAE 4 - Lowest ambient temperatures (Arctic conditions). Unfortunately, for those who may have depended on this classification system to clarify two-cycle engine recommendations - it no longer exist. API canceled the system in 1993, deferring to the European ISO system and/or Japanese JASO system. Although there is no official two-cycle API classification, oil marketers continue to use the outdated test criteria establish for API TC to qualify air-cooled oils. They also use the SAE numbering system to define fluidity of their product. These two new International designations for two-cycle engines have been adopted worldwide to classify high temperature air-cooled 2-cycle engine oils.

From Europe the ISO "Global" system, and from Japan the JASO system. ISO "Global" System Global "GD" is internationally recognized as the highest quality air-cooled 2-cycle oil available. It is a synthetic or semi-synthetic, extreme temperature/anti-scuff/lubricity, low smoke, low ash oil. There is no comparable JASO or API product. Global "GC" is equivalent to JASO "FC," Japan's highest quality 2-cycle oil. In Japan these oils may also be referred to as "Genuine" oils. These oils are high lubricity/detergent, low smoke, semi-synthetic, low ash oils. Global "GB" Europe's lowest quality 2-cycle oil, is equivalent to JASO "FB." It is generally accepted that North America's API TC rated oils are equivalent to these oils. These oils do not require any synthetic to meet specifications, but do have detergent and/or lubricity additives, and are typically low to medium ash oils. JASO System -JAPANESE oil RATING SYSTEM JASO "FA" rated oils are used in Pacific Rim countries and are the lowest rated Japanese 2-cycle oils. They are medium to high ash mineral oils with limited lubricity or detergency. JASO "FB" is equivalent to Global "GB." It is generally accepted that North America's API TC rated oils are equivalent to these oils. These oils do not require any synthetic to meet specifications, but do have detergent and/or lubricity additives, and are typically low to medium ash oils. JASO "FC" is equivalent to Global "GC," Europe's medium quality 2-cycle oil. In Japan these oils may also be referred to as "Genuine" oils. These oils are high lubricity/detergent, low smoke, semi-synthetic, low ash oils. SUMMARY After all is said and done, the end use should always be the primary consideration when choosing a two-cycle engine lubricant. NMMA TC-W3 lubricants are a major improvement over their predecessors, both in water-cooled and air-cooled applications. The new Global and JASCO system defines quality and the service application of air-cooled oils worldwide, and should be making an impact on the North American market shortly.

Although TC-W3® approved oils do meet some high temperature performance requirements, current ashless technology will not meet the performance requirements of Global "GD," "GC," or JASO "FC" for high temperature wear and scuffing protection. Nor are they required to be low smoke oils, which is part of the Global and JASO specification.

A premium quality "GD" or "GC" air-cooled oil is specifically design for high temperature/output air-cooled applications and will outperform TC-W3® outboard oils in most high output air-cooled two stroke-cycle applications.

GOA COMPANY TWO-CYCLE oilS The GOA COMPANY, is at the forefront of two-cycle lubricant technology offering three different two-cycle oils to the marketplace. Each has it's advantages depending on application. ARCTIC BLUE INJECTOR oil is semi-synthetic, extreme high temperature, air-cooled , two-cycle oil, designed for use in all applications listed for LAWN&GARDENTM Two-Cycle Engine oil, PLUS as a premix or injector oil in regular air-cooled or water-jacket cooled snowmobiles, high performance motorcycles, all-terrain vehicles (ATV's), and two-cycle gasoline engine automobiles. This oil is compounded to meet Global "GD" & "GC," JASO "FC" & "FB," and API "TC." SHIPMATE Outboard Two-Cycle Injector oil is certified and warranty approved by the NMMA for TC-W3®, for all high performance outboard motors and most personal water craft. Use in both premix or injector fuel systems for two-cycle engine applications calling for TCW3®, TC-WII® or TC-W®. NMMA license number R-15020
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Old 03-02-2006, 01:58 PM
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Default Polaris 2 stroke oil

Thor.
Thanks for taking the time to post.
Interesting reading. Learned some stuff.
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Old 03-02-2006, 03:56 PM
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Default Polaris 2 stroke oil

I wish I could answer your question about the oil weight but I can't. I own a 2006 Trailblazer and on the day I bought it, it was low on oil so I bought some Polaris oil. I am a fanatic about buying the best so about a week later, I went to another Polaris dealer to but some chain lube, while I was there I asked him about two stroke oils. The parts guy said her races snomobiles and he uses and suggests I use Spectro Oil Synthetics. He said it was the "best" he had ever used. I have always known about Spectro so I figured I would try it. I bought a gallon of it. I was told by him to get the PWC oil. I was a little leary after I got it and I was suspicious if I was lead down the wrong path. I wrote an Email to Spectro oil and the got back to me the very next day. I was amazed at the response time! The tech at Spectro told me that I got the perfect oil for my Trailblazer and then he send me some sticker too. (They are good for aleast ten horsepower). Enough babbling from me, check it out for yourself here.
http://www.spectro-oils.com/kate.htm#PWC
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Old 03-02-2006, 03:56 PM
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