I have located the source of Reconranger's information.....






TPR

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Motoquote of the day: It's cold, and Moto doesn't want to be weat at the same time.

That's the problem, you are just throwing out ideas with nothing to back up your claim that these women have breast cancer from 2 stroke engines. And as far as this showing "how far behind American education is in the sciences". If you read the American Medical Journal, you would know that some of the European studies are disputed in it. Of course, maybe I didn't read the fine print that said; because I am not a graduate of a medical school, I am not entitled to educate myself with these types of journals and therefore, I am ignorant!

If all you can do is come in here and badger people with name calling and innuendo's, then your argument is weak!

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'03 Z400 Hinson clutch K&N filter w/ winch,PEP steering stabilizer,'03 Z400 renthal bars(wife's),'03 Suzuki Pink LT160 w/ Z400 r/wheels,'03 Yamaha Raptor 80,'88 Mojave,K&N Stage 2 Jet kit, Supertrapp. DG nerf bars, PIAA lights,WORKS shocks w/ reservoir,'01 F250 4X4 7.3 Powerstroke Diesel, Crew Cab,Edge Attitude w Evolution,Bank's Monster 4" stainless steel exhaust,Sun Coast Transmission!, 4" lift,Firestone "Ride-Rite" air bags,Bilstien Shocks

Quadracer95, the only reason most manufacturers aren't selling 2 strokes is because they didn't want to spend the resources on emmissions R&D. The old school 2 strokes put out more pollutants than 4 strokes by nature, it is easier to pass the standards with the new generation of 4 strokes. Not only that, but the bigger manufacturers have decades of 4 stroke R&D from the streetbikes, plenty of technology that could be adapted to the offroad racing world.

As for reconrangers post, I am going to attribute that to pain meds or something. He did have a few typos in that first post afterall, very unlike him. Living in So Cal, I would think those women may have had a much larger intake of exhaust fumes from cars than 2 strokes, so maybe that is where they got it from? The truth is that there are many factors that CAN go into the formation of cancers, but without some research to back up a hypothesy like that, it is a bit irresponsible to put that theory out there.

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Yamahaulin' in NY!

Maybe they both got some really nasty titty twisters at a young age??


You medical research guys need to lay off the medicinal mary jane!


Back it with facts Recon...you know the information you like to see when someone is making a claim that you dont agree with? Yeah.. those.

1 out of 8 women will develop breast cancer.

No one really knows what causes breast cancer.

Its best to get a mamagram at an early age and continue to get one every few years.

This has all been very enlightening!

The great discoveries in science were made mostly by chance, when someone put two-and-two together and found a correlation between causes and effects. I never said I had any evidence of this, all I have is a hunch....putting two-and-two together..........

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Desert: 450R
Trail: 400EX
Technical Trail: Rancher 420 and 350 4X4's
Kids: Two 250EX's and 90
Dual-Sport Bike: XT225

Past rides: 300EX, 2wd Rancher 350, Recon, TRX90, Z400, LT160, LT80, Warrior, Blaster, CRF230F

Edited: 10/31/2007 at 05:12 PM by reconranger

There might not be conclusive medical evidence of anything, but you know, if you inhale burnt gas and oil fumes over a long period of time, I bet "bad things are going to happen". You can put two and two together - that's pretty common sensical. Just like if I decide to do open header testing on a high horsepower V-8 engine in my garage. You know what, I bet I might have hearing problems down the road. Obviously if a news story came out saying that riding ATVs "causes cancer" the sport could take a hit. Will a story like that stop people from doing the sport they love? Hell no... Reconranger was being impartial with his opinion. I don't really think he deserves all the flak he's getting for just making an assessment.

Back on topic now. More food for thought. I own both 2 stroke and 4 stroke quads and dirt bikes. The 2-strokes might pollute the "air" more, but a 4-stroke may cause more erosion due to tire-spinning, and more noise pollution (stock 4-stroke dirt bikes are LOUD). Which is the bigger problem?

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Brian -- Faribault, MN

- '07 YFZ450 * AC Pro Peg Nerfs, Full PRM Skids, GYTR Intake, HMF Sport Pipe

- '00 Scrambler 400 4x4 * RcR Stage 1 Kit

- '90 YZ250 * RaceTech Suspension, FMF Pipe/Silencer

MySpace/Quad Pics
Pics from Last Outings

Edited: 10/31/2007 at 05:19 PM by klier

id rather hear a loud exhaust that ding ding da ding ding iding ding ding da ding dad ding ding ding ... i hate 2 strokes not the power just the noise they make

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'07 trx450

The 2 strokes problem as far as pollution goes is 2 fold. First you have oil in the fuel that gets burned(not completely) and then the 2 stroke doesnt efficiently burn all the gas that it uses to make power. Not very good for making a clean burning engine. I think that if all the money that was put into making a 450cc 4 stroke beat a 250cc 2 stroke. Instead was used to make clean burning 2 strokes it would have cost less money and 2 strokes wouldnt be the new "EVIL" thing to be shut down.

You will be able to keep your 2 strokes, just wont be able to buy many new ones. I mainly bought my KTM for the e-start button but now love the way it works in the woods. Now that KTM is making 2 strokes with e-starts..........

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07 Jetmoto 250 Sport
07 90cc Mini Ute
06 Jetmoto 200 Enduro
06 Jetmoto 200
06 Jetmoto 150
06 Jetmoto 125
04 Yamoto 150
01 KTM 400 EXC
92 WR 250
91 CR 250
88 YZ 80
85 CR 500
83 XL 600
82 XR 200
79 XR 75
79 Odyssey
73 Bultaco 360
71 Rickman Montessa 250
70 Rupp Enduro
69 Honda 50

So you throw a far fetched idea out there, and because everyone does not fall all over themselves to agree with you, that makes them ignorant.
I'm not saying that there is no merit to what you say, But the fact is, it's just an idea.
No proof of any kind to back it up.
So an idea without proof is subject to skepticism.
And to you that makes all skeptics ignorant.
That is a typical liberal tactic. If you cant come up with a logical defense when someone calls your hand, then start slinging insults. If you wasn't from one of the most left wing, liberal states in America I might be surprised.

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'01 Green Wolverine
'06 Green Vinson 5 speed

As a person on the outside looking in, it's even more amazing. Just goes to show, sometimes all degrees are good for is telling the temperature.

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A man needs a wife. You can't blame everything on the government.

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07 Jetmoto 250 Sport
07 90cc Mini Ute
06 Jetmoto 200 Enduro
06 Jetmoto 200
06 Jetmoto 150
06 Jetmoto 125
04 Yamoto 150
01 KTM 400 EXC
92 WR 250
91 CR 250
88 YZ 80
85 CR 500
83 XL 600
82 XR 200
79 XR 75
79 Odyssey
73 Bultaco 360
71 Rickman Montessa 250
70 Rupp Enduro
69 Honda 50

Since Reconranger has thus far been unwilling or unable to produce any science behind his claim of the association between breast cancer and 2-cycle motorcycle exhaust, I guess I can hardly call him on it unless I produce some credible research that sides with the notion that there is no link.

I found and read this in-depth scientific study of motorcycle emissions and the measured pollutant emissions against the OSHA limits for a 8 hour day, 40 week exposure to the airborne exhaust.

There is a complete list of pollutants and a description of each and their known carcinogenicity. The shortcuts: look at Table 1 for the list of chemicals in motorcycle emissions, Table 10 for the measured amounts against the OSHA limits, and Section 5 - Health effects of Pollutants starting on page 25.

copy/past link
http://nfp-it.eionet.eu.int:89..._Emissions_Report.pdf

If you take the time to study this report you will see that all measured emissions fell under the OSHA limit for 40 hours of exposure each week. Of the know carcinogenic chemicals, none were related to breast cancer.

Before you start calling us a bunch of hillbillies maybe you should look into the mirror first.

Edited: 11/01/2007 at 09:53 PM by windtrader

Hey, who you callin Liberal...or as we like to call them.....intellectually challenged...

You make some great points there.

Why yes, I am surrounded by the intellectually challenged....but not to fear Nancy Peloci wants to tax stock market windfalls and the rich to make sure the illegals have enough money for their free healthcare we don't get...add Boxer and Feinstein and my god what a trifecta!!!! Please let them all get hit by a bus.

It's the only bad thing in Cali...

TPR

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Motoquote of the day: It's cold, and Moto doesn't want to be weat at the same time.

I can believe 2 strokes an even 4 strokes cause cancer.Anything combustible has alot of toxic stuff in it including PAHs,free radicals benzenes monoxide etc,I should know Im a firefighter,they dont make ya wear a SCBA for nothing.The oil in 2 stroke pre mix has solvents in it to help it burn an when you burn something you get different compositions to form that probably for the most part arent good for your lungs or digestive/filtering systems.I lost both my parents 2 cancer so it scares the Hell out of me when I hear the C word.I try not to dwell on it an enjoy life an if it happens I will have to deal w it when I cross that bridge.I prolly will get hell for slamming 2 strokes but the facts are the facts an the truth is the truth.By the way I sucked at science an math in school but I can still see both sides of the coin an have an intelliigent convo w any 1.Thats why the science community is going after asians and indians for chemists,science careers we are 2 stuck on idiotacy an video games an when we ever wake up it will be 2 late well be done to do anything about it.Its all about ambition an alot of other races have everything to gain an nothing to lose plus we have become very complacent but thats another story.Sorry bout the long thread.

ok lets get out of the cancer shit cause we can go on with this shit forever none of us realy no what causes it.

so lets get in to the cost, witch one is cheaper to make, build, and buy. ok and lets see for ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT DRAG RACE THEM AND ALREADY OWN THEM what are they suspose to do when they stop making oil to mix for them or the parts to rebiuld them. no one thinks of that and there are many of other things.

this is a project for my english class i have to right a paper on debating about getting rid of two strokes. i love them and never want them to leave i love the smell and the power it is unexplainalbe

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z400
kdx200

@sugarhead - were you able to get the link to work in the above post? I edited the post to another link which I think works better. Plenty of toxic emissions come from both 2 and 4 stroke engines (Table 3). The main difference is whether engines are EFi or carburettor. Also the main difference is 2 stroke produce much more particulate emissions than 4 strokes. (Ref 2.2) Both produce plenty of the other carcinogenic elements to worry everyone.

I think a lot of folks here including Reconranger under the impression that 4 strokes produce less of the bad stuff while the fact is they both are bad and the reduced particulates are what makes 4 strokes mandated.

I don't know about Asians but I can tell you most posting in this thread do not seem to do much research nor care if they make "factual" claims which are in fact not backed up with anything other than speculation or "just makes sense" analysis. I don't see much science in these posts.

It seems to me that includes reconrangers origional comment. No facts...just a comment. Not even much common sense in it.

I personally am not very impressed with science over all...Why? 2 examples......science has brought us global warming, even though just 30 years ago when I was in HS "science" was warning of the next ice age. I guess there wasnt any money to be made off of a ice age.

And of course science has brought us the theory of evolution. More BS if you ask me.

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07 Jetmoto 250 Sport
07 90cc Mini Ute
06 Jetmoto 200 Enduro
06 Jetmoto 200
06 Jetmoto 150
06 Jetmoto 125
04 Yamoto 150
01 KTM 400 EXC
92 WR 250
91 CR 250
88 YZ 80
85 CR 500
83 XL 600
82 XR 200
79 XR 75
79 Odyssey
73 Bultaco 360
71 Rickman Montessa 250
70 Rupp Enduro
69 Honda 50

Edited: 11/02/2007 at 07:00 AM by mywifesquad

I was going to say, I haven't seen anyone in here post any evidence to anything. I just believe we'd have to get rid of 2-strokes, 4-strokes, peanuts, cotton, care bears, etc. if we got rid of everything that was supposedly harmful.


And I fully agree on the science comments, a lot of BS comes from it. And a whole lot of BS comes from people that have to "announce" how intelligent they are.

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-'03 CR250R
-'05 400ex
-'06 KLX110 PitBike



Edited: 11/02/2007 at 07:51 AM by motox26