I hate to see this...

Full story at EPA revisits lead in park where rider kick up dust: STLToday.com

Last week, the EPA urged the Missouri Department of Natural Resources to move
off-road vehicle riding away from the flats during the next several years and
to better warn park visitors of the threat of lead mine waste, which makes up
about 1,000 of the park's 8,200 acres.

"We see the continued use of the park for (off-road vehicle) riding and
recreation in the mine tailings as inconsistent with EPA's approach to reducing
lead exposure in St. Francois County," said Bruce Morrison, with the agency's
Superfund Division in Kansas City.

Soil and dust sampling in 2002 found lead levels as high as 4,638 parts per
million in the beach area where children play and swim, and up to 1,563 parts
per million in the riding area, according to government reports.

"I'm worried more about my toys nowadays," Schneider said. "This is at least Mother Earth. To me, it's probably the lead that came from the mines that came from the earth. And to me, that is different than lead that's in the paint that is being processed on my toys.."

As much as I hate to see or count on the government to regulate a number of things; you've got to wonder what the world would truly be like if the federal government did not indeed play some kind of even 'advisory' role on some subjects (see above; as I am literally 'dumbfounded' here).

I hate to see it also; yet let's be reasonable. The off-road community's got to come up with a solution here that most likely involves one heck of a lot more "pay-to-play" responsibility than 3 bucks a crack...with a mere 55,000 users.

"We pay to come down here...." claimed the enthusiast in the article.

Yeah, $165,000 per year ought to cover any and all problems associated with the kicking up of 'lead' dust at one of the most prolific mines in the world; with tailings dating clear back to the 1700's...in addition to any and all maintenance costs; normal damage restoration; enforcement; administration; etc. that the park requires each and every day.

Is there anybody out there who does the math anymore?...or do we just continually stomp our feet year after year in this sport and claim: "by gosh,... it's our right!!!"(?)

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Forming a "Long Range Financial Subcommittee" in MI.:
Take two inexplicably expired term motorcycle reps. still serving on the board (one names yet another motorcycle rep)
Add 1 full-size and but 1 atv rep.
Arrogantly claim that the entire process should be finished in 4 conference calls with absolutely no public involvement or any meeting minutes recorded.
Result?
No complaint whatsoever from sheep-like atv clubs with literally tens of millions in play.

I for one would be more than willing to pay a higher fee at St. Joe. It's really a great place to ride and $3 a day makes you feel like you are ripping the state off. I suppose that traditionally state parks aren't "in it" to turn a profit but, I agree riders should offset the cost of operating the riding area.

I think one of the most important things to consider is that we do "pay" all be it a very marginal price to ride there. By doing so we accept the risk associated with riding. I would think, or at least hope that most people understand the potential risk of riding at St. Joe. There are signs around and they do have information available that discuss the risk of lead exposure. I also know its posted all over in the campgrounds.

I think it's a great facility, I think the state does an excellent job running it and I would hate to see it shut down.

I won't claim to know exactly how the state finances the park or all the budget nuances associated with running it. I just want to see a logical approach taken to handling the lead issue and not simply see the state buckle to the pressure of environmentalist activist.

Make it safe, keep it open, and jack up the price if needed, that's the bottom line for me.

BlackBalled - One final closing comment for you, do you understand how much it costs to run this website? It's not free, consider becoming a supporting member, have you done the math, looks like you spend a fair amount of time on here!?! I'm just giving you a hard time, we need the voice of reason around here no matter how unpopular it may be!

Originally posted by: CyberSlacker2001
"...BlackBalled - One final closing comment for you, do you understand how much it costs to run this website? It's not free, consider becoming a supporting member, have you done the math, looks like you spend a fair amount of time on here!?! [IMG][/IMG] I'm just giving you a hard time, we need the voice of reason around here no matter how unpopular it may be! [IMG][/IMG]

AtvConnection has been one of the few sites out there willing to give me a chance to speak my peace; no doubt about it.
On the other hand, my posting priveleges here were not 'restored' under any kind of understanding that I would be allowed to do so (once again) if I merely spoke the truth and backed same up with the very sad facts involving this community and its divisive non-commital leadership that were brought forth for many years previously.

In other words; I would be more than happy to send that check today...yet one need only observe my latest comments under the "Stupid Kills" heading in this same section...to realize that there aren't a whole lot of folks out there interested in the facts surrounding our problems today with even kids getting killed, injured or maimed(!)...if those facts aren't served up to them in the same "
pc" manner that has gotten this off-road community absolutely nowhere for literally decades now.(our leaders have counted on their spin-like doublespeak to keep this non-profit gravy train rolling....I have never communicated in that manner when I didn't have to...and this now desperate situation is a very good example).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a 'guarantee' from AtvConnection and have already literally spent hundreds more (if not thousands) of my own dollars over the years supporting individuals; clubs and forums that I knew darn well wouldn't support me when the hard truth was very simply and more importantly accurately laid out in front of their membership.

Yet, these recent massive land closures (IMO) have been a reflection of orv leadership's failure nationwide to send a strong message to both government and land managers that we are through diverting our funds to these scattered "pay-no-attention-to-that-man-behind-the-curtain" non-profits....in exchange for a true pay-to-play; directly funded; accountable-type atmosphere that is represented under one roof promoting multi-use maintanable access for all.

As you know, a lot of basically good leaders would lose both their 'jobs' and a lot of money coming into their individual 'non-profits' under this scenario and I would just as soon not lose any more of mine simply 'daring' to talk about it; as has happened in the past.

Thanks for the comments and believe me, you're dead on with your observations. There are obviously more good than bad government employed land managers out there trying to make this thing work. Yet if $3 a pop split umpteen ways is all they're getting...and non-profit orv membership is taking in 10-15 times more than this with absolutely no accountability on the same (what shopuld be) "community wide" representative policies...who takes any kind of responsibility sport-wide when the whole mess goes to 'pot'; as sadly happened when these land managers were forced to shove this travel mangement rule right down all of our throats?

Again, thanks for having the guts to share your opinion and pushing me towards what has been (historically) a not very good risk of putting my money where my mouth is once again,

John

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Forming a "Long Range Financial Subcommittee" in MI.:
Take two inexplicably expired term motorcycle reps. still serving on the board (one names yet another motorcycle rep)
Add 1 full-size and but 1 atv rep.
Arrogantly claim that the entire process should be finished in 4 conference calls with absolutely no public involvement or any meeting minutes recorded.
Result?
No complaint whatsoever from sheep-like atv clubs with literally tens of millions in play.

its really funny how the epa works, one day they say its okay and the next its not. this issue was front page of post dispatch and it caught some huge attention.

there is a good article summary at www.savestjoestpark.com.

I don't ever think they will close the park, and if they did what's left in park hills?

thanks
ryan
www.stjoepark.com

The EPA is a tool. If those in power wish to close the park the EPA will be told to find that there si a lead hazard and it is dangerous to allow ATVs to operate there. It isn't about science or reasonable risks it is about the advancement of certain political agendas.

it is always political and that is the only reason they will probably never be able to close it. government turn around is a joke, i have been dickn around with the jefferson county prosecuting office in missouri for 2 months on a separate issue. no one seems to get crap down, and i would like to ring their necks.

HMMM, I have been riding at ST.JOE for a while , yet Im still breathing. Im son has been riding at ST.JOE for awhile , yet ,he also is still breathing. Maybe the lead tailings are bad. If thats the case, then they should have never opened that place up in the first place!!!!!! All the sudden , Its toxic lead!!! Bunch of crap!!!! Maybe EPA should worry about China's great industrial machine that puts out lead based products that are put on U.S. markets. Lets just shut down the entire Park Hills(FLAT RIVER) area while were at it!!!!! Sorry , that whole thing ticks me off.

Anyways , $3.00 is more than enough, Try riding there on a weekend. You end up parking in the overflow section if you arrive late. They are making plenty of cash!!
I wouldn't recommend taking your kids on the weekend either. They just might get mowed over from a LT-450R or TRX-450R. Yes , its that crazy on the weekend!!!

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2006 DVX400
2003 LTZ400
2007 KAWASAKI KFX50
2005 RAPTOR 350(GONE)

2009 SPONSOR: Bel-Ray Lubricants

cough .. cough.. i am dying, not from lead but from the lettuce i just ate. most of the research the EPA did on the park, proved there wasn't any worries. they are going to be testing the people that work at the park sometime later this year. check out this article called savestjoestpark.com, it puts the EPA in perspective. they would like us to sit on our a$$ and wear breathing mask while we watch tv. I would much rather die having fun!!!!

As for the kids, try to avoid them, they blow out tires. Just kidding, lots of kids at the park on the weekends. As with all kids you got to make sure they stay out of trouble and off the throttle. hehehe

later
ryan
www.stjoepark.com

I checked out the website. www.stjoepark.com
There's some great info on there.
Thanks

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Oooooooh-Net
07 Scrambler 500 H.O. 4x4
95 Scrambler 400 4x4 (bored from 83 to 84) (fox rear strut)