So, compulsory sterilization was true....how does that explain Reality TV?!?!?!?!?!?!?!




Tom D

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07 BF 650 i
Rides slow...owns lot's of jerseys...
Likes shiny things.....

hmmm, I don't think I have a snappy answer that is politically correct on that one.... I can think of a lot of unkind things to say, but wisdome born of age tells me to keep the trap shut this time... I think I'll let others have a go at this, eh?

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Lets just say these old bones have buckets of experience...
Yamaha Warrior
Yamaha Blaster
Yamaha Raptor 660
Yamaha Raptor 80
Honda Rubicon
Yamaha 450 IRS 4x4

I love ATVs it is awesome to be able to go so many places with the power of an ATV. Heres a rule of thumb, if it's not your land and you do not have permission to ride on it, do not ride on it. It is hard to resist, but you will never go wrong.

I have been reading this forum with some interest. I guess I am lucky here in Arkansas as the BLM and the US Forestry have established open trails for ATV'S , actually these are mulitpurpose trails made and opened for equisteriens use then eventually modified for off road use as a cycle,mountain bikes, and ATV;s , they all share the same trail with courtesy given to each or supposedly . With the continuous use of the trails by out of staters trying to make as many miles possible in one day, these trails are upwards to 45 miles long some have primitive camping areas even.They are being closed section by section due to the thoughtlessness of the ATV'ers riding in streams and creeks where they shouldnt , cross creeks off the bridges built to cross the streams and riding on thier own trails . Most of which are out of staters. In any map offered by the BLM or the Forestry there is one statement that says it all and is ignored by 99.9 % "TREAD LIGHTLY' .
Yesterday I was out on one trail and damn near was run over by 6 moto cross riders doing about 50 miles an hour over the humps going up a trail. The 7th one didnt see me and didnt make it , he ran off the trail and crashed . Needless to say I got a severe chewing of the glutious maximus by the ride for being in the way. My simple reply was ,"why were you all riding so fast when I cant stay on 4 wheels at 5 miles an hour. Then offered to show him my forestry badge if he wanted to continue the conversation I could call for the law enforcement officer to explain some rules of the trail. He manage a sheepish ,I am sorry and went on as if he had gained a little sense . I dont posses a badge but did have a cell phone and had a signal , and the Law Enforcement officer is my cousins father in law .
The thing I am trying to say is what is mentioned on all sites for 4 wheelers and ATV;s "TREAD LIGHTLY" , dont know what it means google it up and read what it is

I usually go barreling down the trails on the mountain where I ride, but I try to go during the week when nobody is there and I have the trails to myself. If people are there, then I have to only go fast if I can see far enough ahead to be sure nobody is there. If there is a curve with the trail on the outside of the hill, I can't see very far at all and if I met someone in the curve, one of us is going right off the side or else a head-on impact will happen. That's just common sense stuff though,,, I would think. And going fast is the main reason I go. Maybe 20-30% of it is just enjoying the scenery,,, maybe not even that much. But if I see or hear someone else coming, I try to always get off the trail n let them pass. When I can't get off the trail it causes a traffic jam because the other guy doesn't act like he knows exactly what to do.... Usually anyway.

Bikers piss me off most of the time. They always seem to ride in packs of a dozen and fly wide open with no regard for anyone else, or they pile up in the middle of the trail drinking, resting, n whatever and cause a traffic jam. The only time I see a group of quads stopped is in the parking lot (or waiting for a group of bikers to move).

Tread Lightly to me means have respect for the land and environment. Try not to hurt any wildlife (including plants), not littering,,, stuff like that. If they didn't want us going fast, why did they put all those jumps in the middle of the trails with bulldozers??? Too many jumps in my opinion, but that's where my tax money goes....

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

I dont know about the bumps to fly on where you are,But here in Arkansas they put the "bumps" on the trails here to control runoff in heavy rains so there wont be such a ditch where the bikers , 4 wheelers have been leaving ruts in the trails . I doubt very much if you have the trails there that are here (look at my home page .I have posted pics of one trail that I was on lately and that is a calm and boring trail). The trail I was on yesterday has 3 medivac heliports at different intervals because of the idiots riding fast and ending up in the woods off the trails. Except at those places the woods is usually 300 to 600 feet down off the side of a cliff. Due to the inconsiderate riders in the past the US Forestry has closed about 15 miles of what used to be 41 miles of one trail there.

Yeah, our trails look a lot like yours,,, only no heliports. Run off the trail in GA and you're on your own. You may be right about the bumps in the trail being to control runoff... I never thought about that. But at the same time, they bulldoze the trails a couple times a yr so I would think the dozers could take care of the ditches at the same time and not really have a need for erosion controlling bumps. I'll have to call someday and ask what they are there for.

I just hope you don't lump all fast riders in the same category as the inconsiderate riders. Some of the ones riding slow can be inconsiderate too.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

JustRandy, I notice what you said about Bikers in the post above. I kinda laugh (not at you) because I hear the exact same argument here all the time............except the roles are reversed. If you swap the words bikers and 4 wheelers or atv's around- it is exactly the same argument. I think it is all in what you are used to. Nevertheless, the one guy is exactly right. 99% of our problem is the failure of riders to tread lightly and failure of riding dimwitts to take their trash out of the woods the same way they brought it in.

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God does not beleive in Atheists!
Your getting hurt while not wearing a helmet contributes to ME losing MY riding area.
2000 Honda Foreman 400
1988 Honda 300
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trx300man
2001 IPC pit Viper 90

Good points here, but the comment I found to be the most hilarious is "Most of which are out of staters" - it's always the same 'ol thing - always blame the guy that is "different". I doesn't matter where you are from, the rules and regs in any state are pretty much the same state to state - don't ride off trail, don't damage or destroy what isn't yours, respect other riders, and take your trash with you.

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I am on active duty with the Marine Corps; 25 plus years and counting. Returned home from Habbaniyah, Iraq, in July 06 and am back out on the left coast where I am stationed. My ATV riding is mostly in NW Minnesota on a 2004 AC 500 4X4 auto. Out on the left coast I ride a Hawg.

"And I; I took the road less traveled by..."

I have to admit I don't always take my trash with me. But I do bury it back in the woods where it will never be found again. Never anything more than a soda can though. Aluminum is good for pines anyway. It adds acid to the soil, which pines and many other trees love. All plastics I carry out the same way they came in and I would never bring anything glass with me riding. If I'm riding in a group, all the empties go back in the cooler. Basically, the goal is to leave the place like you found it or better for the next person to enjoy.

Since I bought all this property containing many varieties of trees (including some 50-60ft tall willow oaks near the house), I've been frantically trying to learn as much about trees as possible. The last thing I want is for something to happen to my oaks that shade the house and provide a nice 30ft swing for me n the kids. Not to mention, they are inspirational to look at.... and totally irreplaceable (they're 80 yrs old!). Anyway, about the worst thing you can do to a tree is rub the bark off with the side of your atv or whatever. The most alive part of the tree is right under the bark. Compacting the soil by continually riding over the roots is not good for them either. I'm not a tree hugger or anything like that, I'm just saying if your goal is to tread lightly, you should understand the good, the bad, and the "not that big of a deal" for the environment.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

I guess I'm just a bit irritated with bikers in general. I know its not "all" bikers, but enough of them. With all these Harley reality shows that have invaded pop culture, its almost to the point that the only way to have a truly unique bike is to leave it stock. So, I get bombarded by hawgs going up n down the road with no mufflers like the world belongs to them and everybody else will just have to deal with it or go to hell. Now, I'm about as much of a libertarian as you will find, but if a bill would come up that restricts noise levels for these bikes I'd be losing sleep n missing meals to support it. Nothing is more aggravating than to have someone else impossing their "enjoyment" onto me. Its no different than if I came into your neighborhood blasting my 7000watt car stereo with my windows down because I need everyone to know I'm a badass.... "Look at me coz I'm Kewl n yer not! Nah nah na nah nah!"

So, then, I go riding the trails on the mountains.... I get 2 min down the trail and have to stop because a group of bikers are blocking the trail. Then, they finally get their shit together but still can't go because one of them has taken his baffle out and can't get the bike started. So, they all take turns kicking this POS until one of them finally fires it up and drowns out all noise except for his. Once the herd moves on, I get to riding again only to have to pull over to let the possie go by in the other direction.... Like waiting on a train.

I don't know.... Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems bikers have a certain "mentality",,, almost by definition,,, that unites them into rebels of society. And being a rebel of society means pissing off as many members of society as they can and breaking every rule of law as a statement of their rebellion. Like I said, its not all bikers, but enough of them. I don't know why they have to be so obnoxious. I'd rather be a wolf in sheep's clothing than to be a sheep in wolves clothing anyway. And to require everyone to be scared of you obviously means you are a sheep.

.... Hence my conditioned bias against bikers. Sorry if I offend.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

You know whats been buggin me since leesumm posted that? Why didn't he get off the trail after the first couple of bikes went by? I can see be taken by surprise by the first bike, but to let 6 more catch you off guard??? Doesn't sound very responsible or very considerate. I don't know the details of it and I'm sure there's an explaination.... But if the 7th rider was pissed, he just might have had a right to be. Just something I've been thinking about in the weeks since that post.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

If they were truly going that fast they prob went by him before he knew what was happening. Especially if they were close. I don't always see good spacing by these dudes. JMO

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God does not beleive in Atheists!
Your getting hurt while not wearing a helmet contributes to ME losing MY riding area.
2000 Honda Foreman 400
1988 Honda 300
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trx300man
2001 IPC pit Viper 90

More good points here. I don't know about the cans doing good for the trees or not, I'll have to look into it. I know I ALWAYS leave with more trash than I went in with. I also have some property (160 acres) with lots of trees; some old growth and some I have planted. The biggest issues I have is trespassers ignoring the NO TRESPASSING signs and not only tear up my trails but also make their own trails, tear up my CRP, and intentionally damage my deer feeders and deer stands.

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I am on active duty with the Marine Corps; 25 plus years and counting. Returned home from Habbaniyah, Iraq, in July 06 and am back out on the left coast where I am stationed. My ATV riding is mostly in NW Minnesota on a 2004 AC 500 4X4 auto. Out on the left coast I ride a Hawg.

"And I; I took the road less traveled by..."

Could be. I was just trying to replay it in my mind and I've never had that happen. Usually I hear them long before I see them and I'm already off the trail. Its the slower ones that I can't hear and I come barreling up on them. Luckily, I see them in plenty of time though. I suppose a little of everything has to happen at least once if you go riding enough.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

Aluminum is actually somewhat toxic to just about everything (including humans). I'm far from being a chemist, so I can't really explain the chemical actions invloved, but for some reason the addition of aluminum sulfate lowers the soil ph and is good for pines, oaks, blueberries, etc.

"If your soil is alkaline, you can lower your soil's pH or make it more acidic by using several products. These include sphagnum peat, elemental sulfur, aluminum sulfate, iron sulfate, acidifying nitrogen, and organic mulches. " http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm.../1994/4-6-1994/ph.html

Here's a list of plants and what soil type they like: http://www.bachmans.com/tipshe...rAcidAlkalineSoils.cfm

Just thought I'd throw this in there:

"The theory that wood chips and pine needles and oak leaves create acid as they decompose has to have been invented by someone who is still confused by the chicken first, or egg first controversy. In nature, all decisions are based on natural selection over time. If the largest concentration of pine forests or oak forests happen to be found where the soil tends to be more acid than not, does that mean that the acidity was somehow formed by the trees? Of course not; when tree seeds are distributed by nature, those that land and germinate in areas which are favorable to their growth are going to thrive. So, as a general rule, plants of all description are going to do best in areas where they grow and reproduce the best, i.e., the plants selected the soil, not the other way around. It is just too easy to assume that because oak and pine trees prefer acid soils, that their decomposing leaves created the acidity in the soil. Those soils were acid before the trees got there, or the trees would not have thrived and created forests." http://tomclothier.hort.net/page24.html


Yeah, I would be pissed too if I discovered someone had made a new trail for me. I'm trying to protect my pines and there's no room for more trails. Those pines will be worth lots of money some day and its not all that difficult to kill one or start an epidemic of boring beatles by opening lots of wounds. Luckily, I havent had to contend with that. I usually patrol the trails daily and I rarely see any unidentified tire tracks. Sometimes, but rarely.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

Oh,,, and I not saying to deliberately carry a case of beer into the woods and toss your empties into the oak or pine stands! I'm just saying if you carry a couple of cans with you on a ride and 10 miles in you decide to pop one and don't really want to deal with the sticky mess of an empty can, I wouldn't call you the devil if you buried the can out of sight among some oaks or pines. But I don't want people to run around justifing littering by saying its good for the trees!

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

I hate to get too far off topic but does anyone have any idea how many years it takes an aluminum can to disentegrate? I can tell you that I drink RC and I have found cans with a paint scheme from 15 years ago buried and they don't look desentgrated at all- just dirty. So to me that argument that we could throw cans down because they are beneficial to pines does not make sense. At they rate that they wear down, the trees are gonna get such a microscopic amount of aluminum that it will do NO good whatsoever. Now if you want to bury the ground in 10 or 20 feet worth of aluminum cans? Maybe then they could absorb a beneficial amount? SHHEEEEEEEEEsh!!!!!!!!

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God does not beleive in Atheists!
Your getting hurt while not wearing a helmet contributes to ME losing MY riding area.
2000 Honda Foreman 400
1988 Honda 300
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trx300man
2001 IPC pit Viper 90

Edited: 04/11/2008 at 11:27 AM by trx300man

I think you have a very good point Robert. I'm sure it takes a VERY long time for a can to "go away". I too have found cans from a LONG time ago. Kinda neat actually... Little time capsules we stumble upon. I just hate when I find them near streams. It looks horrible and it can't be good for the fish and animals.

I searched on google and this is all I could find: http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...=20061003183650AATCZqO It says 80-100yrs for a can to biodegrade. That's a long time for a can to sit by a tree (good thing the trees can live much longer than that). I guess the only point I have left is that the can, at least, won't hurt the tree.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain