I am in So Cal, where atv trails are almost non-existent, and what few parks they do have is closed anytime they get a little rain. In nor cal I am told you can ride on the fire roads up in the hills, but I have never done so. Back home I can ride right in town, and even ride to the next town and park in front of the bank. Makes it nice to be able to drive to the gas station, cafe', or whatever. Of course, with all of the liberals here we are lucky to be able to ride anywhere.

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I am on active duty with the Marine Corps; 25 plus years and counting. Returned home from Habbaniyah, Iraq, in July 06 and am back out on the left coast where I am stationed. My ATV riding is mostly in NW Minnesota on a 2004 AC 500 4X4 auto. Out on the left coast I ride a Hawg.

"And I; I took the road less traveled by..."

Let me tell you about politicians... Take it from someone who has spent the last 17 years as a paid consultant to the Federal Government. I have seen a lot of politicos come and go. One thing that is consitant, no matter which side of the aisle they are on, is the practice of risk avoidance. They are NOT going to propose laws that take our side... No, they are going to listen to Joe Landowner who has a problem with ATV riders. The best way for them to solve the problem is to do away with ATV's altogether, or severely restrict them by keeping kids under 16 off of them by law... It is happening as we speak.. so keep this in mind next time you piss someone off with your riding style, or tresspass on their land etc. They hold all the cards, and you and I are going to be on the receiving end... Now, if you want to sit on the couch playing with your WII instead of riding, OK... but that is where we are going to end up if people like you and I don't wake up and take action to turn all this around.

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Lets just say these old bones have buckets of experience...
Yamaha Warrior
Yamaha Blaster
Yamaha Raptor 660
Yamaha Raptor 80
Honda Rubicon
Yamaha 450 IRS 4x4

It boils down to respect. If you wouldn't like it if I came over to your house and helped myself with your game system, ordered a pizza, watched a little TV, or maybe took a dip in your pool without asking,,, don't come to my house and ride around my land! And it really doesn't end with just atvs as far as that goes. I wouldn't take too kindly to someone driving a car, out for a stroll, riding a bike, skateboarding, or even taking a nap on my land, lol.

I can understand being a kid with lots of time with nothing productive to do and no where to ride that is fun. I used to do my fair share of riding w/o asking too when I was younger. And no amount of schooling would have ever stopped me... I knew it was wrong... Its only when I got my own land did I feel "territorial" when I saw someone riding w/o asking. And I really can't explain why... I guess it goes back to someone coming in my house and watching TV w/o asking. Just something about that I don't like... Even if they mean no harm and are very friendly. Now, if someone would ask first, I would probably say, "yeah go ahead, but watch out for this n that and be careful." But since they don't ask, some reason I want to kill the little sob's, lol. I've thought long n hard about "why" I feel like that (besides liability issues), but can't figure it out well enough for words. Life would be so much easier if I didn't care.

Animals are the same way. Dogs don't like strange dogs coming around. Cats don't like strange cats coming around. I don't think any animal likes another of its kind coming around. But once they know each other, suddenly its ok to come around. Humans, it seems, are no different.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

I agree with you whole heartedly there... Respect is something that is earned, and is something that should be given away for free. Unfortunately, we don'e see a lot of that these days.

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Lets just say these old bones have buckets of experience...
Yamaha Warrior
Yamaha Blaster
Yamaha Raptor 660
Yamaha Raptor 80
Honda Rubicon
Yamaha 450 IRS 4x4

The problem (or at least one of them) is no one takes any kind of parenting class before having kids. And I've noticed the number of kids one has is inversely proportional to one's education. That may or may not be statistically correct,,, but it sure seems like it is.

Maybe instead of requiring ATV training courses, we require "kid raising" courses or face losing your kids! That would sure nip a lot of problems in the bud, LOL. Of course, who decides what is to be taught???

Btw, I know some states used to sterilize people that were, shall we say,,, intellectually disadvantaged. Seen that on the history channel and I must say I was shocked to learn we had a few Hitlers running around the states here for a while.

States (27) that had sterilization laws still on the books (though not all were still in use) in 1956 were: Arizona, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah,Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization

I tell ya one thing... We'd have a bunch of geniuses running around if you had to study really hard to keep your jewels off the choppin block!

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

And less sex offenders too....

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Lets just say these old bones have buckets of experience...
Yamaha Warrior
Yamaha Blaster
Yamaha Raptor 660
Yamaha Raptor 80
Honda Rubicon
Yamaha 450 IRS 4x4

LOL

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

So, compulsory sterilization was true....how does that explain Reality TV?!?!?!?!?!?!?!




Tom D

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07 BF 650 i
Rides slow...owns lot's of jerseys...
Likes shiny things.....

hmmm, I don't think I have a snappy answer that is politically correct on that one.... I can think of a lot of unkind things to say, but wisdome born of age tells me to keep the trap shut this time... I think I'll let others have a go at this, eh?

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Lets just say these old bones have buckets of experience...
Yamaha Warrior
Yamaha Blaster
Yamaha Raptor 660
Yamaha Raptor 80
Honda Rubicon
Yamaha 450 IRS 4x4

I love ATVs it is awesome to be able to go so many places with the power of an ATV. Heres a rule of thumb, if it's not your land and you do not have permission to ride on it, do not ride on it. It is hard to resist, but you will never go wrong.

I have been reading this forum with some interest. I guess I am lucky here in Arkansas as the BLM and the US Forestry have established open trails for ATV'S , actually these are mulitpurpose trails made and opened for equisteriens use then eventually modified for off road use as a cycle,mountain bikes, and ATV;s , they all share the same trail with courtesy given to each or supposedly . With the continuous use of the trails by out of staters trying to make as many miles possible in one day, these trails are upwards to 45 miles long some have primitive camping areas even.They are being closed section by section due to the thoughtlessness of the ATV'ers riding in streams and creeks where they shouldnt , cross creeks off the bridges built to cross the streams and riding on thier own trails . Most of which are out of staters. In any map offered by the BLM or the Forestry there is one statement that says it all and is ignored by 99.9 % "TREAD LIGHTLY' .
Yesterday I was out on one trail and damn near was run over by 6 moto cross riders doing about 50 miles an hour over the humps going up a trail. The 7th one didnt see me and didnt make it , he ran off the trail and crashed . Needless to say I got a severe chewing of the glutious maximus by the ride for being in the way. My simple reply was ,"why were you all riding so fast when I cant stay on 4 wheels at 5 miles an hour. Then offered to show him my forestry badge if he wanted to continue the conversation I could call for the law enforcement officer to explain some rules of the trail. He manage a sheepish ,I am sorry and went on as if he had gained a little sense . I dont posses a badge but did have a cell phone and had a signal , and the Law Enforcement officer is my cousins father in law .
The thing I am trying to say is what is mentioned on all sites for 4 wheelers and ATV;s "TREAD LIGHTLY" , dont know what it means google it up and read what it is

I usually go barreling down the trails on the mountain where I ride, but I try to go during the week when nobody is there and I have the trails to myself. If people are there, then I have to only go fast if I can see far enough ahead to be sure nobody is there. If there is a curve with the trail on the outside of the hill, I can't see very far at all and if I met someone in the curve, one of us is going right off the side or else a head-on impact will happen. That's just common sense stuff though,,, I would think. And going fast is the main reason I go. Maybe 20-30% of it is just enjoying the scenery,,, maybe not even that much. But if I see or hear someone else coming, I try to always get off the trail n let them pass. When I can't get off the trail it causes a traffic jam because the other guy doesn't act like he knows exactly what to do.... Usually anyway.

Bikers piss me off most of the time. They always seem to ride in packs of a dozen and fly wide open with no regard for anyone else, or they pile up in the middle of the trail drinking, resting, n whatever and cause a traffic jam. The only time I see a group of quads stopped is in the parking lot (or waiting for a group of bikers to move).

Tread Lightly to me means have respect for the land and environment. Try not to hurt any wildlife (including plants), not littering,,, stuff like that. If they didn't want us going fast, why did they put all those jumps in the middle of the trails with bulldozers??? Too many jumps in my opinion, but that's where my tax money goes....

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

I dont know about the bumps to fly on where you are,But here in Arkansas they put the "bumps" on the trails here to control runoff in heavy rains so there wont be such a ditch where the bikers , 4 wheelers have been leaving ruts in the trails . I doubt very much if you have the trails there that are here (look at my home page .I have posted pics of one trail that I was on lately and that is a calm and boring trail). The trail I was on yesterday has 3 medivac heliports at different intervals because of the idiots riding fast and ending up in the woods off the trails. Except at those places the woods is usually 300 to 600 feet down off the side of a cliff. Due to the inconsiderate riders in the past the US Forestry has closed about 15 miles of what used to be 41 miles of one trail there.

Yeah, our trails look a lot like yours,,, only no heliports. Run off the trail in GA and you're on your own. You may be right about the bumps in the trail being to control runoff... I never thought about that. But at the same time, they bulldoze the trails a couple times a yr so I would think the dozers could take care of the ditches at the same time and not really have a need for erosion controlling bumps. I'll have to call someday and ask what they are there for.

I just hope you don't lump all fast riders in the same category as the inconsiderate riders. Some of the ones riding slow can be inconsiderate too.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

JustRandy, I notice what you said about Bikers in the post above. I kinda laugh (not at you) because I hear the exact same argument here all the time............except the roles are reversed. If you swap the words bikers and 4 wheelers or atv's around- it is exactly the same argument. I think it is all in what you are used to. Nevertheless, the one guy is exactly right. 99% of our problem is the failure of riders to tread lightly and failure of riding dimwitts to take their trash out of the woods the same way they brought it in.

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God does not beleive in Atheists!
Your getting hurt while not wearing a helmet contributes to ME losing MY riding area.
2000 Honda Foreman 400
1988 Honda 300
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trx300man
2001 IPC pit Viper 90

Good points here, but the comment I found to be the most hilarious is "Most of which are out of staters" - it's always the same 'ol thing - always blame the guy that is "different". I doesn't matter where you are from, the rules and regs in any state are pretty much the same state to state - don't ride off trail, don't damage or destroy what isn't yours, respect other riders, and take your trash with you.

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I am on active duty with the Marine Corps; 25 plus years and counting. Returned home from Habbaniyah, Iraq, in July 06 and am back out on the left coast where I am stationed. My ATV riding is mostly in NW Minnesota on a 2004 AC 500 4X4 auto. Out on the left coast I ride a Hawg.

"And I; I took the road less traveled by..."

I have to admit I don't always take my trash with me. But I do bury it back in the woods where it will never be found again. Never anything more than a soda can though. Aluminum is good for pines anyway. It adds acid to the soil, which pines and many other trees love. All plastics I carry out the same way they came in and I would never bring anything glass with me riding. If I'm riding in a group, all the empties go back in the cooler. Basically, the goal is to leave the place like you found it or better for the next person to enjoy.

Since I bought all this property containing many varieties of trees (including some 50-60ft tall willow oaks near the house), I've been frantically trying to learn as much about trees as possible. The last thing I want is for something to happen to my oaks that shade the house and provide a nice 30ft swing for me n the kids. Not to mention, they are inspirational to look at.... and totally irreplaceable (they're 80 yrs old!). Anyway, about the worst thing you can do to a tree is rub the bark off with the side of your atv or whatever. The most alive part of the tree is right under the bark. Compacting the soil by continually riding over the roots is not good for them either. I'm not a tree hugger or anything like that, I'm just saying if your goal is to tread lightly, you should understand the good, the bad, and the "not that big of a deal" for the environment.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

I guess I'm just a bit irritated with bikers in general. I know its not "all" bikers, but enough of them. With all these Harley reality shows that have invaded pop culture, its almost to the point that the only way to have a truly unique bike is to leave it stock. So, I get bombarded by hawgs going up n down the road with no mufflers like the world belongs to them and everybody else will just have to deal with it or go to hell. Now, I'm about as much of a libertarian as you will find, but if a bill would come up that restricts noise levels for these bikes I'd be losing sleep n missing meals to support it. Nothing is more aggravating than to have someone else impossing their "enjoyment" onto me. Its no different than if I came into your neighborhood blasting my 7000watt car stereo with my windows down because I need everyone to know I'm a badass.... "Look at me coz I'm Kewl n yer not! Nah nah na nah nah!"

So, then, I go riding the trails on the mountains.... I get 2 min down the trail and have to stop because a group of bikers are blocking the trail. Then, they finally get their shit together but still can't go because one of them has taken his baffle out and can't get the bike started. So, they all take turns kicking this POS until one of them finally fires it up and drowns out all noise except for his. Once the herd moves on, I get to riding again only to have to pull over to let the possie go by in the other direction.... Like waiting on a train.

I don't know.... Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems bikers have a certain "mentality",,, almost by definition,,, that unites them into rebels of society. And being a rebel of society means pissing off as many members of society as they can and breaking every rule of law as a statement of their rebellion. Like I said, its not all bikers, but enough of them. I don't know why they have to be so obnoxious. I'd rather be a wolf in sheep's clothing than to be a sheep in wolves clothing anyway. And to require everyone to be scared of you obviously means you are a sheep.

.... Hence my conditioned bias against bikers. Sorry if I offend.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

You know whats been buggin me since leesumm posted that? Why didn't he get off the trail after the first couple of bikes went by? I can see be taken by surprise by the first bike, but to let 6 more catch you off guard??? Doesn't sound very responsible or very considerate. I don't know the details of it and I'm sure there's an explaination.... But if the 7th rider was pissed, he just might have had a right to be. Just something I've been thinking about in the weeks since that post.

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If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. - Mark Twain

If they were truly going that fast they prob went by him before he knew what was happening. Especially if they were close. I don't always see good spacing by these dudes. JMO

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God does not beleive in Atheists!
Your getting hurt while not wearing a helmet contributes to ME losing MY riding area.
2000 Honda Foreman 400
1988 Honda 300
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trx300man
2001 IPC pit Viper 90