This was in fridays paper.
whole story
ATV bill lets DNR decide where riders can go
A Minnesota House bill gives the Department of Natural Resources more discretion over where drivers of off-road machines, such as ATVs can go in state forests north of U.S. 2

-------------------------
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -- Galileo Galilei

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. "
Mark Twain
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - F. Nietzche

Any way you can link it w/o having us have to sign up/log in?

-------------------------
Ken "Jetblast" Thompson<BR>Jet tech

Geez , I hate that crap too. I suppose i dont see it because i already have the cookie. Heres the story


ATV bill lets DNR decide where riders can range

BY DENNIS LIEN
Pioneer Press


Given the chance, would drivers of off-road vehicles power anywhere through state forests in northern Minnesota? Or would they stick to clearly established routes?

That debate, seemingly address- ed by the Legislature two years ago, is coming to a head again.

A Minnesota House bill gives the Department of Natural Resources more discretion over where drivers of off-road machines, such as all-terrain vehicles could go in state forests north of U.S. 2, in the northern quarter of the state. Depending on who's talking, that's either an enlightened choice or a recipe for disaster.

The legislation, contained in a larger environment bill that could be voted on as early as Monday, also could lead to ATVs on a popular state trail north of Lake Superior. It would increase fines for drivers who damage wetlands and funnel $200,000 a year to off-road clubs for enforcement and education purposes. Almost 224,000 ATVs were registered in the state last year.

Environmental groups oppose the legislation and argue it breaks a compromise reached in 2003 by lawmakers and Gov. Tim Pawlenty. But off-road groups support it and say they never agreed to any such deal.

"That's their little fantasy,' said Ray Bohn, a spokesman for several off-road organizations. "I don't remember compromising with them.'

"It's outrageous to claim there was not some kind of compromise,' said Matt Norton, a lawyer for the Minnesota Center for Environmental Advocacy.

The two sides are equally combative over what off-road users do in northern forests when given some discretion.

Two years ago, most lawmakers were convinced that the vehicles were damaging forests and ordered the DNR to review 57 state forests and either close them to ATVs or confine them to posted trails. So far, only four of those efforts have been completed; another nine are pending.

Off-road enthusiasts, however, want to give the DNR commissioner authority to allow ATVs on all trails that aren't specifically closed. A bill sponsored by Rep. Tom Hackbarth, R-Cedar, would provide it. He could not be reached for comment Thursday.

Environmentalists said the bill would allow drivers to go on any path, however faint and however new. But Bohn didn't think they'd do that.

"I think that's just a theory,' Bohn said. "And I don't subscribe to that theory. Is it possible? I suppose it's possible. Is it probable? No. People stay on trails.'

"That's a joke,' Norton responded. "How does anyone think we got 7,000 miles of renegade user-created trails on state forestland? It's a naked assertion that flies in the face of all facts and common sense.'

"This bill basically allows off-highway vehicles to run roughshod through Minnesota state forests,' added Sean Wherley, communications director for Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness.

Bohn said a proposal to pay off-road clubs to help monitor ATV behavior and to educate drivers about rules is based on successful programs in Michigan and Wisconsin.

"This is an attempt to police ourselves,' Bohn said. "I think it is going to do more to help with what the problems are than anything we can do at the Capitol.'

Norton wasn't impressed.

"This takes us back to the bad old days, only worse, because now there are more machines out there,' he said.

No comparable legislation is moving in the Senate.

Earlier this year, a more restrictive bill sponsored by Sen. John Marty, DFL-Roseville, was defeated in the committee that Marty chairs. Two bills favored by off-road users, meanwhile, never got a vote.

Observers, however, expect to see off-road amendments when a related bill reaches the Senate floor.


-------------------------
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -- Galileo Galilei

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. "
Mark Twain
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - F. Nietzche

Thank you for your troubles.

-------------------------
Ken "Jetblast" Thompson<BR>Jet tech

It is interesting that back there you seem to have a large amount of "state forests". Out here, there are HUGE amounts of federal land, and very little state land at all. (The state does run some very nice vehicular recreation areas however.) If you said "DNR" out here in the west, nobody would have any idea what you are talking about.

My sister lives in Wisconsin, and if they even traget shoot on their own land, the DNR is all over them like the Gestapo. I guess they are worried about poaching, but my impression is that they are very heavy handed.

-------------------------
Southern California Deserts and Mountains....

Desert: 450R, 400EX
Technical Trail: Rancher 420 and 350 4X4's
Kids: Two 250EX's and TRX90
Dual-Sport Bikes: KLX250S and XT225

Past rides: 300EX, 2wd Rancher 350, Recon, TRX90, Z400, LT160, LT80, Warrior, Blaster, CRF230F

Mn is mostly farm land in the south, and heavily wooded in the northeast. We have some federal land, like the superior national forest, but it seems like the majority of the public land is state owned.
We have out share of tree huggers, and they are vocal, but if the majority of the riders would only go where they belong, and not go boonie busting, they would calm down.
Actually in MN, the dnr is on our side...they want people to use the resources, however they want it done responsibly.

-------------------------
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -- Galileo Galilei

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. "
Mark Twain
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - F. Nietzche

there are alot of state forrests up here and we are pretty heavily wooded and alot of farmland. i have seen very few renegade trails and have never seen it a problem. it is basically what has been said it is just environmentalists blowing things out of proportion and they sicken me. maybe in the cities i could see people who see pavement buildings and cars all day being environmentalists for future generations to enjoy and whatnot. but they get this idea put in their heads that we are a bunch of renegade riders which just plain isn't true. i can guarantee you that you would have to look awefully hard up here to find an environmentalist. everyone up here enjoys the outdoors and i guess in our own way are environmentalists but we take care of our forrests and land in our own way and time we don't sit down in the twin cities complaining about this stuff which we have no idea what it is about. i say let northern mn govern northern mn it is us that have to live here so they should leave us alone. and thank you for posting this article honda it is appreciated on my part to see what they have to say down there and it appears in alot of the articles that they favor atv's

-------------------------
Arctic Cat 650
2500 pound warn winch
27 inch ITP AT589
ITP chrome n black rims
front brush guard
heavy duty rear bumper
hand guards
EPIBlack Spring seconday
EPI Pink primary
Dynatek CDI
2005 Yamaha YZ 125
1964 fj40 toyota landcruiser
2004 Ford F-150 FX4 Blk 4x4
99 ZR 600 LE

Quote

---

Originally posted by: weez440
i guess in our own way are environmentalists but we take care of our forrests and land in our own way and time we don't sit down in the twin cities complaining about this stuff which we have no idea what it is about. i say let northern mn govern northern mn it is us that have to live here so they should leave us alone.

---

What a load.

The truth is - The forests in northern MN have become "in your own way" the ever so prevalent low-rent trailer trash I'm not paying for rubbish removal garbage dumps. Sometimes I can't ride 5 miles without finding another pickup truck load of household garbage dumped out by the side of a trail or on the parameter road of just about any non-developed lake. Any marsh area path that will support a ATV above its fenders is mulched into swamp muck and anything that looks like a hill has been defoliated like a tanker truck of agent orange was dumped on it and it is eroded to beat heck with several two track ruts going up and back down it. Locals use the lakes and streams to wash the black swamp muck from their ATVs putting all that swamp mulch and crappola in the lakes and there seems to be some kind of contest of who can throw the gravel from every guys driveway the farthest. Instead of varying their path they choose to rut-up the ditches leaving them scared and eroded and god forbid there is a puddle of water or some Jr. future pillar of society will spend 6 hours going threw it over and over and over again. Oh – Did I mention the lack of mufflers? It doesn’t make anyone actually go measurably faster but half the juveniles on quads don’t seem to have one because it sounds like they are.

No brother - you can BS yourself or those who have not been out in the woods up there - but you can't BS those of us who have been up north and seen how some with the back-woods mentality manage things when "left alone". I guess if I wanted to live a life without rules for sanitation, environmental responsibility or any kind of unexamined lifestyle I would want to be left alone also. But that will never happen.



-------------------------
Minnesota DNR ATV Safety Instructor
Patriot Guard Rider
2K4 AC TRV 500 w/MRP rear rack
2K3 AC TRV 500 HD Springs MRP rear rack
2K1 500 SportsmanHO-RSE,HD Springs, Highlifter Kit
Nemadji 2K1,2K2 3/2k5 Iron River 2K2,Mt Ind.MT 2K1/2K3 - Gilbert OHV 5/2k2,6/2K3,5/2k5 Spearfish7/2k2

WhoDatInDaMud, Unfortunetly i can attest to what youre saying.
Why dont the environmentalists go after these people who just dump in the woods? Wouldnt this be a bigger problem than just people riding a quad or motorcycle?
Last time i was up there, my brother and i were riding out of hoyt lakes, and every spur and turn off and minor or major trail we took, was blocked by garbage, with in the first 50 feet. It was just disgusting. Then later on in the bar, all we heard was how the big city people are the ones who are ruining it for everyone. Unbelievable.

-------------------------
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -- Galileo Galilei

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. "
Mark Twain
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - F. Nietzche

Quote

---

Originally posted by: hondabuster
WhoDatInDaMud, Unfortunetly i can attest to what youre saying.
Why dont the environmentalists go after these people who just dump in the woods? Wouldnt this be a bigger problem than just people riding a quad or motorcycle?...

---

Becuase the same trailer trash hypocrates who are dumping thier garbage in the woods to save their money for beer are the ones complaining about the ATV' riders who pull their discarded bill collection letters from the bottom of those trash piles and present them to the local authorities. At least I do. There is a correlation between the ultra enviromentalist and those who think their garbage is someone elses problem.

I've filled roll-off dumpsters with the trash, matteresses and garbage from low-life pond scum-sucking pimple faced hat on backwards jerk baits who drive rusted out POS jacked up 4x4 trucks down ATV trails so they can haul their soon to be knocked-up 14 year old girl friends back into the woods for a little north woods hanky panky. And they don't even think twice about throwing their 3.2 beer bottles out into the lake or into the marsh that flows into it.

Somebody else will clean it up. Maybe them dammed city folks with all their fancy new trucks and rules and regulations can come up here and clean up after me.... ha ha ha ha

brings visions of "Deliverence" and other hillbilly scenes to mind doesn't it?

-------------------------
Minnesota DNR ATV Safety Instructor
Patriot Guard Rider
2K4 AC TRV 500 w/MRP rear rack
2K3 AC TRV 500 HD Springs MRP rear rack
2K1 500 SportsmanHO-RSE,HD Springs, Highlifter Kit
Nemadji 2K1,2K2 3/2k5 Iron River 2K2,Mt Ind.MT 2K1/2K3 - Gilbert OHV 5/2k2,6/2K3,5/2k5 Spearfish7/2k2

lol tone it down a lil bit whodat. how did we get on the subject of garbage and lifted up rusty trucks and trailor trash????? either way it was still entertaining. i dunno where you guys ride and see this but i haven't seen anything that bad of corse you are gonna have people who don't care thats anywhere you go. and you will have trailor trash hillbilly's wherever you go to i can't stand those people anyways lol and i agree 100 percent about loud pipes specially in more populated area's me myself i don't have loud pipes on a fourwheeler it is just annoying riding next to someone wiht them but as long as they stay out of populated area's it isn't a problem.

-------------------------
Arctic Cat 650
2500 pound warn winch
27 inch ITP AT589
ITP chrome n black rims
front brush guard
heavy duty rear bumper
hand guards
EPIBlack Spring seconday
EPI Pink primary
Dynatek CDI
2005 Yamaha YZ 125
1964 fj40 toyota landcruiser
2004 Ford F-150 FX4 Blk 4x4
99 ZR 600 LE

I ride by Hoyt Lakes a lot And i barely see any garbage around on the trails. The swamp lands are a great place to ride over here also. A atv cannot do that much damage at all look how small they are. I had a lady come up to me couple months ago and say damn you atvers and snowmobiles for tearing up mother nature and killing our air we breath. I was like give me a flippin break lady. I told her to look at the piece of sh!t car she was driving and how her old wagon was putting fumes in the air more then I. On how much wider is the road SHE drives on is then a atv trail. STUPID LIBERAL TWITS!

-------------------------
My EX may not be the most modern BUt i WILL out ride you anyDAY!

Where I do most of my riding, I don't see anything like what whodat or hondabuster are saying. Most of the guys I ride with haul out far more trash than they drag in. For this reason we see very little trash on the trails, and the trails are not nearly tore up as discribed, and I very rarely see tracks go off trail. And when the tracks go off trail, it is usually in the winter when the ground is frozen.

-------------------------
"And I; I took the road less traveled by..."

http://s321.photobucket.com/al...heeling%20Sept%202008/

http://s321.photobucket.com/albums/nn396/jdjrc/

LOL - well.... we rode 100 miles in the Biwabik, Aurora and Gilbert areas this last weekend. There were so many broken booze bottles that glass has become the #1 trail hazard. The 4x4s have pulled to the side the huge boulders used to block the trails from the 4X's and not to far into the wood did we find beds, recliners, couches, stoves - piles of household waste, yard clippings and leafs and bags and bags of discarded clothing. Numerious couch cushions were found in unlikely places. I can't even begin to figure out why.

With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota Its no wonder we must struggle so badly to create new riding oppertunities.


-------------------------
Minnesota DNR ATV Safety Instructor
Patriot Guard Rider
2K4 AC TRV 500 w/MRP rear rack
2K3 AC TRV 500 HD Springs MRP rear rack
2K1 500 SportsmanHO-RSE,HD Springs, Highlifter Kit
Nemadji 2K1,2K2 3/2k5 Iron River 2K2,Mt Ind.MT 2K1/2K3 - Gilbert OHV 5/2k2,6/2K3,5/2k5 Spearfish7/2k2

Quote

---

Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
LOL - well.... we rode 100 miles in the Biwabik, Aurora and Gilbert areas this last weekend. There were so many broken booze bottles that glass has become the #1 trail hazard. The 4x4s have pulled to the side the huge boulders used to block the trails from the 4X's and not to far into the wood did we find beds, recliners, couches, stoves - piles of household waste, yard clippings and leafs and bags and bags of discarded clothing. Numerious couch cushions were found in unlikely places. I can't even begin to figure out why.

With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota Its no wonder we must struggle so badly to create new riding oppertunities.

---

I've lived in this area for the last 15 years and rode here for 4 years. I'll admit when I first moved here I saw a few old stoves, a couple old car fenders and even one old car body from the 40's. I later found out this was all very near an old, now closed county garbage dump. I guess when they closed it and landscaped, they missed a few items.

Recliners, couches, piles of household waste....I've never seen them. So many broken booze bottles that glass has become the #1 trail hazard....give me a break!! If I or any of my club members ever see anything on a trail, we stop and pick it up and have never seen glass on the trails here.

Quote

---

Any marsh area path that will support a ATV above its fenders is mulched into swamp muck

---

I just looked at your pictures. There is one there of your wife and her bike covered in swamp muck. It kind of looks like Marsh AREA Muck

A question for you: Being a DNR safety instuctor, you should know the riding laws, right? Where were you riding (100 miles) in this area? There are NO legal riding trails here except within the OHV park! All those other trails are mining company and MN Power properties and posted! Sounds like a little tresspassing going on to me!!

Quote

---

With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota

---

Maybe you should not come to northern MN and just stay in that pristene metro area.

People, People, can't we all just get along

But this is a very intresting subject.

Everybody has alot of different opinions on what they've found or not found on the trail.

I personally have not seen very much garbage, but I have seeen broken bottles and old barb wire, but other then that garbage isnt a problem.

I havent ridden on state trails very often but the ones I road on were very well maintained and in great shape.

I generally ride on private property when I go out riding so there all my trails and my nieghbors trails so I clean them up if I want to and I have.

It's just hard for ATV riders here because if some1 that is'nt an ATV enthusiast see's tracks causing damage they always lead to ATV's. Half the time its frickin trucks and dirtbikes! Dirtbikes have already been banned everywhere in the state ecept private property and in closed competition . Hopefully things turn around and they dont do the same to the quads because I dont know what I would do if I wouldnt be able to ditch ride and have fun cruisin with my friends.

The future is up to us in the ATV industry.

-------------------------
2008 KTM 525XC
(it's fast)

Quote

---

Originally posted by: mninstructor

Quote

---

Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota Its no wonder we must struggle so badly to create new riding oppertunities.

---

I've lived in this area for the last 15 years and rode here for 4 years. I'll admit when I first moved here I saw a few old stoves, a couple old car fenders and even one old car body from the 40's. I later found out this was all very near an old, now closed county garbage dump. I guess when they closed it and landscaped, they missed a few items.

Recliners, couches, piles of household waste....I've never seen them. So many broken booze bottles that glass has become the #1 trail hazard....give me a break!! If I or any of my club members ever see anything on a trail, we stop and pick it up and have never seen glass on the trails here.

Quote

---

Any marsh area path that will support a ATV above its fenders is mulched into swamp muck

---

I just looked at your pictures. There is one there of your wife and her bike covered in swamp muck. It kind of looks like Marsh AREA Muck

A question for you: Being a DNR safety instuctor, you should know the riding laws, right? Where were you riding (100 miles) in this area? There are NO legal riding trails here except within the OHV park! All those other trails are mining company and MN Power properties and posted! Sounds like a little tresspassing going on to me!!

Quote

---

With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota

---

Maybe you should not come to northern MN and just stay in that pristene metro area.

---

LOL.... wow... if you don’t like our trash and rubbish then stay home...lol Now that’s a good one ...eh...

1) There is one brown and one yellow recliner along the trail near a little lake south west of McKinley, you can likely still find those. And several of the couch cushions are on a hill east of where Belgrade use to be.

2) There were numerous broken beer and booze bottles between Aurora and Hoyt lakes. We do our part also and we picked up the larger fragments so your not going to find those but the really shattered ones we would bury. We carry a shovel for just such purpose. This was north of the lake above Aurora. You are welcome.

3) I noticed recently that trails around Hoyt lakes are marked ATV trails. They must be realizing the economic boost of the tourist riders. Your "club" needs to get out more.

4) Being a DNR instructor much consideration was taken to legal riding in that area. This is our 3rd year riding up their. I personally spoke with the county sheriffs office, the Biwabik police and the DNR at Gilbert. Their are posted areas but much of the land is mining tax forfeit state property without any designation, I was told. No prohibition to ride on the existing trails (former RR beds mostly) or where its not posted. We come across authority’s all the time, in fact - we ride with a St. Louis county deputy occasionally. I don't think we are in violation.

5) That picture of my wife was taken in the Sherwood Forest campground adjacent to the Gilbert OHV Park during the ATVAM spring convention a few years ago. Your about as wrong with your assumptions as a person can get.

Their are some people up north that are making the area look bad, but I have no anti- Iron range agenda and I don’t intend to make any enemies with the decent and responsible people who live their. But you have no credibility with me when you argue there is NO glass and NO riding areas as I have picked up the glass and I have been on the marked ATV trails and I've been riding there with the full knowledge and as far as I understand, the "consent" of law enforcement.

It is hard to beleive that two people can have two very different expereinces riding in the same area. Maybe I'm more sensitive to taking note of it. But I have the facts to support my posting. Or I know exactly where I buried them.





-------------------------
Minnesota DNR ATV Safety Instructor
Patriot Guard Rider
2K4 AC TRV 500 w/MRP rear rack
2K3 AC TRV 500 HD Springs MRP rear rack
2K1 500 SportsmanHO-RSE,HD Springs, Highlifter Kit
Nemadji 2K1,2K2 3/2k5 Iron River 2K2,Mt Ind.MT 2K1/2K3 - Gilbert OHV 5/2k2,6/2K3,5/2k5 Spearfish7/2k2

1.) Never rode there. so they could be there. That sounds like just out of the OHV park by your descriptoion.

2.)So you found a couple of bottles. That couldn't have happened anywhere else but where the "pigs"live? I'm glad you picked up the glass. Did you say that was between Aurora and Hoyt Lakes? The only way to get to Hoyt Lakes from Aurora is on a state snowmobile trail, which is closed to ATV's. How about that big swamp and creek crossing in there?

3.)The trails in Hoyt Lakes are one loop around the town. As far as I know they were put there for the locals to ride, when they closed many others in Superior Natn'l Forest that they used to ride. Of course anyone is welcome to ride them.

4.) Some of that may be true. But from McKinley to Biwabik, you ride an old railroad grade, which may be OK but it ends right in the Canadian National Railroad yard in Biwabik. Which means about 1/4 mile of tresspassing there. From Biwabik to Aurora you have to now ride on another state snowmobile trail and a paved biking trail. Both off limits to ATVs.

5.)That sure does not look like the red ore mud at the OHV park but I suppose it could have come from a nearby trail

Quote

---

"when you argue there is NO glass and NO riding areas as I have picked up the glass and I have been on the marked ATV trails"

---

My apologies about the glass you found and thank you for cleaning it up. I am sorry to tell you that the only marked ATV trails are in the OHV park and around Hoyt Lakes. Those orange markers everywhere else are for the snowmobile trails.

Quote

---

"Their are some people up north that are making the area look bad, but I have no anti- Iron range agenda and I don’t intend to make any enemies with the decent and responsible people who live their"

---

So you write this on a public forum: " I guess if I wanted to live a life without rules for sanitation, environmental responsibility or any kind of unexamined lifestyle I would want to be left alone also." and "low-life pond scum-sucking pimple faced hat on backwards jerk baits who drive rusted out POS jacked up 4x4 trucks down ATV trails so they can haul their soon to be knocked-up 14 year old girl friends back into the woods for a little north woods hanky panky. and "brings visions of "Deliverence" and other hillbilly scenes to mind doesn't it?"

Dude next time you are coming up to ride