limited slip differential
#31
01-11-2000, 11:26 PM
I read the same article (4-Wheel ATV Action, January, 2000), where the Rancher's differential was described as superior in performance to the old.
On page 44, describing the old-style differentials' performance, the article says,
"When riding over uneven terrain that puts one front wheel in the air, the four-by quickly turns into a 2WD as all the power goes to the airborne wheel."
Notice the magazine says "2WD," describing the operation of previous "limited-slip" differentials, not 3WD. While this definition "proves" nothing, I agree with the magazine's viewpoint, and intend quoting this passage to another poster, someone who considers himself an infallible authority who holds the one true interpretation possible (i.e., "3WD") in this area!
Tree Farmer
On page 44, describing the old-style differentials' performance, the article says,
"When riding over uneven terrain that puts one front wheel in the air, the four-by quickly turns into a 2WD as all the power goes to the airborne wheel."
Notice the magazine says "2WD," describing the operation of previous "limited-slip" differentials, not 3WD. While this definition "proves" nothing, I agree with the magazine's viewpoint, and intend quoting this passage to another poster, someone who considers himself an infallible authority who holds the one true interpretation possible (i.e., "3WD") in this area!
Tree Farmer
#32
01-12-2000, 11:14 AM
1) Listen up everyone. I can not speak for Vasquez, but to a degree he(she) is right. I read just about all the posts in here and never get involved really until false info is being distributed.
Allow me to intrduce my self. My name if Jeff and I work with High lifter. As you can imagine I get all the latest info and specs on all the quads. I too read the post in Atv Action and was very excited about the new differential. A few weeks after its birth into the Atving industry we couln't wait any longer to satisfy our hunger for a sure track front end from honda, so we went and got one.
From the literature I had personally read and from the reports that were give me I expected the front end to be so that it would be comparable with the 500 s-man or in the "ball park" anyway (after reading the ATV Acion post one is almost guaranteed this). To our dissapointment it did not perform as well as we anticipated.
True, it did work better than the Foremans and the TRX, but Honda still has a way to go before they will be able to compete with Polaris in this issue.
I along with a few of my crew here did perform a test with jacks and the 350 did pull itself off the jacks. This proves that Honda has made improvements on making the front end better for everyone.
The most noticable change in my mind was the steering. With the introduction of the AP differential (cams and no clutch plates)the steering ease was increased significantly. I was amazed on how much easier the Rancher steered over the older Honda machines. It was so much better it got my attention immediately.
In closing, with improved steering and a much better "tration finding" front end (not to mention much more G.C.)it has proven to be a much better buy over the older Foremans and TRX's in my personal opinion. This is just my opinion again.
2) About the Locking front ends. Tree Farmer is absolutley correct. The Artic Cat 300 and the Suzuki 300 are the same. With the right motivation a person could make a 300 Artic Cat have a locking front end. I am using the term "locking" loosley so that we do not get into a semantic agruement. The Artic Cat 400/454/500 can not be made into a true 4x4 with current tools. And the same goes for the Suzuki 500.
3) The Polaris 500 S-man does have sensors just like Vasquez stated. I have seen them with my own 2 eyes on Mike's '00 Polaris 500 s-man. one of the things that Vasquez did say correctly was that the rear tires must spin over 1/5 of a rotation before the front enguages. This is on the 500 s-man. I can not speak for any other quad but this one.
Jeff
P.S. Listen to Tree Farmer. He knows what he is talking about.
Allow me to intrduce my self. My name if Jeff and I work with High lifter. As you can imagine I get all the latest info and specs on all the quads. I too read the post in Atv Action and was very excited about the new differential. A few weeks after its birth into the Atving industry we couln't wait any longer to satisfy our hunger for a sure track front end from honda, so we went and got one.
From the literature I had personally read and from the reports that were give me I expected the front end to be so that it would be comparable with the 500 s-man or in the "ball park" anyway (after reading the ATV Acion post one is almost guaranteed this). To our dissapointment it did not perform as well as we anticipated.
True, it did work better than the Foremans and the TRX, but Honda still has a way to go before they will be able to compete with Polaris in this issue.
I along with a few of my crew here did perform a test with jacks and the 350 did pull itself off the jacks. This proves that Honda has made improvements on making the front end better for everyone.
The most noticable change in my mind was the steering. With the introduction of the AP differential (cams and no clutch plates)the steering ease was increased significantly. I was amazed on how much easier the Rancher steered over the older Honda machines. It was so much better it got my attention immediately.
In closing, with improved steering and a much better "tration finding" front end (not to mention much more G.C.)it has proven to be a much better buy over the older Foremans and TRX's in my personal opinion. This is just my opinion again.
2) About the Locking front ends. Tree Farmer is absolutley correct. The Artic Cat 300 and the Suzuki 300 are the same. With the right motivation a person could make a 300 Artic Cat have a locking front end. I am using the term "locking" loosley so that we do not get into a semantic agruement. The Artic Cat 400/454/500 can not be made into a true 4x4 with current tools. And the same goes for the Suzuki 500.
3) The Polaris 500 S-man does have sensors just like Vasquez stated. I have seen them with my own 2 eyes on Mike's '00 Polaris 500 s-man. one of the things that Vasquez did say correctly was that the rear tires must spin over 1/5 of a rotation before the front enguages. This is on the 500 s-man. I can not speak for any other quad but this one.
Jeff
P.S. Listen to Tree Farmer. He knows what he is talking about.
#33
01-12-2000, 04:22 PM
Vasquez,not intending to call you a lair,but I find one of your comments about Polaris AWD system to be somewhat unclear.You mention about the AWD system needing 1/5 rear wheel spin in order to activate the AWD system.Your telling us that you even been stuck before on that type of AWD system because of the lack of 1/5 rear wheel slippage.I own a very large heavy 99 500cc AWD Sportsman,Equipped with 26 inch Mudrunners all the way around,and have NEVER been unable to accomplish 1/5 or more rear wheel slippage to activate the AWD.If anything would have difficulty obtaining 1/5 rear wheel slipage,you can bet that my Tank Sportsman would be the one.Is it a possibility that the AWD was'nt working for some other reason?I find your reason of getting stuck on the AWD system to be of some other reason than the tires not getting the neccessary wheel slipage.What ya think?=====BILL
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#34
01-12-2000, 05:14 PM
Bill,
Believe what you want. I know this to be fact. I have witnessed this with my own two eyes. Ask any Polaris "Engineer" (not back yard mechanic) and you might be amazed at the response you get.
I would tell you to get in the Polaris Forum, but the problem is so miniscule most poeple (like yourself obviously) never notice it. So most people will tell you that is an instant AWD system, when that is incorrect.
Did you read what Jeff wrote last? He works with one at High Lifter and confirmed this. I believe if anyone would know it would be them.
These Forums are for fun and not for indepth arguments. You present me with a theory, and I present you with a fact. Believe what you want, but understand what you might "want" to believe will not change the truth. If you continue to not believe me, that is fine. Ignorance is a good excuse in the mud. I have written all I will on this matter. I will not respond on this issue anymore. If you want to continue to talk about "Pull-aris" AWD systems, get out of the HONDA forum and get into the polaris Forum.
Jolly
P.s. Keep in mind all my experiences are on a '00 Polaris 500 S-man. I do not know if earlier modles are different.
Believe what you want. I know this to be fact. I have witnessed this with my own two eyes. Ask any Polaris "Engineer" (not back yard mechanic) and you might be amazed at the response you get.
I would tell you to get in the Polaris Forum, but the problem is so miniscule most poeple (like yourself obviously) never notice it. So most people will tell you that is an instant AWD system, when that is incorrect.
Did you read what Jeff wrote last? He works with one at High Lifter and confirmed this. I believe if anyone would know it would be them.
These Forums are for fun and not for indepth arguments. You present me with a theory, and I present you with a fact. Believe what you want, but understand what you might "want" to believe will not change the truth. If you continue to not believe me, that is fine. Ignorance is a good excuse in the mud. I have written all I will on this matter. I will not respond on this issue anymore. If you want to continue to talk about "Pull-aris" AWD systems, get out of the HONDA forum and get into the polaris Forum.
Jolly
P.s. Keep in mind all my experiences are on a '00 Polaris 500 S-man. I do not know if earlier modles are different.
.
#37
01-12-2000, 11:44 PM
I tested the limited slip differential out with my brother tonight on the ForemanES. I went on some ice, and got both back tires and one front tire all on the ice, and the other front tire was on the ground, where there was plenty of traction. My brother pushed on the front of it, and got all 3 tires spinning. The front tire on the ground did absolutely nothing. Then I remembered something I wanted to try that I heard on these forums. I pumped the front brake, and it really helped. Everytime I would hit the front brake, the front tire on the ground would kick, trying to go. My brother said he had a hard time holding it back when I did that. Next I took it on a frozen snowbank, where I got one front wheel way up in the air. My brother pushed on the front and I hit the gas, guess what, I had a 2wd machine! The front brake trick did pretty much the same thing as before, kicking the one front wheel on the ground. I was just wondering, for you Rancher owners out there, how would the Rancher do in these same tests?
#38
01-12-2000, 11:46 PM
Boner ,thank you.You understood my response to Vasquez.I did'nt mean to hit a nerve Vasquez.I made a very good point and you were unable to give an approiate answer to it.Im sorry you did'nt understand the point I was trying to make.I dont ever remember saying anything to you or anybody else about an instant AWD system.My response to you was I felt there was something else wrong with the AWD system, rather than you thinking the rear wheels were stuck because the quad was unable to establish 1/5 rear wheel slipage.Hogwash my friend.As I earlier said,I've never had a problem obtaining rear wheel slipage on my tank,and it's one of the heaviest Polaris they make.For you to sit on your PC and tell untrue FACTS that make little to no sense is just ridicules.I have never seen any AWD Polaris quad get stuck because they could'nt obtain the 1/5 rear wheel slipage in order to activate the front AWD.True,rear wheel slipage is needed to activate the AWD system,but to say something like the quad was stuck because it could'nt achieve this is just not so.Ask anyone who owns a Polaris AWD system.Its your so called facts that are just theory's,not mine.===BILL
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#39
01-13-2000, 03:28 AM
I agree Bill, it would be near impossible to get stuck in a way that wouldn't allow the rear wheels to spin. But if you entered the muddy soup fast enough, or it was deep enough, your Polaris would probably end up no-wheel drive. You would be spinnin' the old rubber band, while a three wheel drive Honda would keep on truckin'. I'll take a limited slip diff. over a belt any day.
[This message has been edited by Bob4x4 (edited 01-13-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Bob4x4 (edited 01-13-2000).]
#40
01-13-2000, 05:59 AM
Bob4X4, you say, "I'll take a limited slip diff. over a belt any day."
Surely, you're entitled to your preference! However, whether a quad has belt drive or not doesn't affect its final drive. For example, the gear-driven Polarises have final drive designs identical to the automatics, i.e., no differentials and locking front hubs. The other belt-drive "automatics," Yamaha/Suzuki/AC/Kawasaki, all have limited-slip front differentials.
Regarding your hypothetical situation of a speeding AWD Polaris entering a mud pit; observing this actual phenomenon at the Tour de Forest, the powered rear wheels quickly spin relative to the unpowered front wheels, locking the hubs; power then flows to all four wheels. (This doesn't meant a Polaris cannot become stuck, however!)
Drivetrain designs represent different approaches to solving traction problems; all have good points, limitations, and their own operating characteristics. Whichever we choose, getting there should be at least half our fun!
Tree Farmer
Surely, you're entitled to your preference! However, whether a quad has belt drive or not doesn't affect its final drive. For example, the gear-driven Polarises have final drive designs identical to the automatics, i.e., no differentials and locking front hubs. The other belt-drive "automatics," Yamaha/Suzuki/AC/Kawasaki, all have limited-slip front differentials.
Regarding your hypothetical situation of a speeding AWD Polaris entering a mud pit; observing this actual phenomenon at the Tour de Forest, the powered rear wheels quickly spin relative to the unpowered front wheels, locking the hubs; power then flows to all four wheels. (This doesn't meant a Polaris cannot become stuck, however!)
Drivetrain designs represent different approaches to solving traction problems; all have good points, limitations, and their own operating characteristics. Whichever we choose, getting there should be at least half our fun!
Tree Farmer