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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2000, 02:39 PM
Weekend Warrior
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yep... only on the king quad though. The new quadmaster and older quadrunner are limited slip though. Ive been into the front end of the Suzuki's and the clutch pack is located inside a sealed unit. I dont see ho anyone will ever be able to design a locker for these machines. I know noone has one to date. The inside of the Artic Cat apeared almost identical to me also. It is sealed and has a limited slip clutch pack as well. I dont forsee anyone making a locker for this quad either.

To answer your question in short, the K-Quad yes and the others (like the 500)no. They do not do any better. They are limited slip.

Jolly
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2000, 02:59 PM
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Vasquez-I'll send you an email so I don't tie up forum space.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2000, 04:21 PM
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Two points: First, I find discussion of Polaris AWD systems in this topic curious, because: Polarises have no differentials of any sort; the topic, as I understand it, is "limited slip differential."

Second, discussion and debate might be clarified by defining some terms. I submit, "locked," in the context of a differential, meaning both associated wheels and axles are physically connected by some mechanism insuring said wheels and axles rotate together at all times while in a "locked" condition.

The only stock quads to my knowledge meeting the definition of a locked differential are the Suzuki King Quad and its little brother (front differential), and the Kawasaki Bayou 300 2WD (rear differential).

The function and definition of differential action is: divide power between associated wheels, and permit rotation of those wheels at different speeds. Differential action occurs ONLY if the internal differential (spider) gears rotate on their shaft.

All locking differntials I know of, ATV and automotive, lock by STOPPING rotation of inner differential (spider) gears; lockers like High-Lifter's permanently stop this rotation; an effect achieved by shade-tree mechanics on their racers and off-road machines as "Lincoln Lockers," so-named because of the Lincoln welders used to weld the spider gears.

All (functioning) limited-slip differentials I know of, bias a portion of the torque from a spinning wheel to one with traction by RETARDING the rotation of the spider gears, usually through a clutch pack, sometimes by cam or cog contact.

Now, does the new Honda differential actually LOCK the front wheels (see proposed definition of "locking")? If so, the device should righfully be called an "automatic locking" differential (as is the Detroit Locker of automotive and truck fame) in contrast to a "limited-slip" differential.

Semantically, it seems to me, a "limited-slip" differential cannot be a locker, by definition. With a locked "locking" differential, there is "zero-slip" between the rotating speeds of the two wheels.

Can a limited-slip differential jump a jack? Yes, if ENOUGH torque is biased to the wheel with traction, a function of the design and condition of the limited-slip differential and how hard the jack setup is to overcome. Different limited-slip differentials bias different percentages of torque; for example, "Auburn" limited-slip differntials are much more aggressive in this department than the extra-cost-opttion limited-slip differntials available from automobile manufacturers.

Otherwise, I misunderstand the purpose and functioning of differentials greatly; a distinct possibility!

Tree Farmer
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2000, 04:07 PM
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Reguarding the Polaris AWD, there is a sensor on all four wheel hubs. They are tied into a sensor on the machine (location inknown at this point, but I intend on finding it). Whenever the sensor registers that the rear tires have rotated 1/5 of a rotation while the fronts have not moved, it is then that the AWD is enguaged and not before. In other words, if you can't get the rear tires to spin over 1/5 of a rotation, AWD will not enguage and will leave you stuck. I know b/c I've been stuck b/c of this very problem.

Jolly
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2000, 07:45 PM
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Again, since Polarises have no differentials, we're in the wrong forum, I think. However, as I understand the system (thanks to tutorials provided by Polaris-riding friends), the front hubs ENGAGE by mechanical action when the front axles attempt to ovetake the front wheels' rotation speed (i.e., when the rear wheels slip) while AWD is ENABLED by electrical control. The mechanical engagement of the front hubs takes place without "sensors," as the term is usually applied. If I'm mistaken, I invite further instruction from my Polaris gurus; I enjoy learning about machines other than my own.

Tree Farmer
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2000, 01:08 PM
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Just for some clarification and to enlighten everyone who is interested.

1) The suzuki King Quad has a locking front differential.

2) Its little brother the 250cc also has the same front end so it has a locking front differential.

3) Artic Cat uses the same front differential so with a small modification (which has been posted on the forum, I do not remember which thread) it too can have the locking front differential.

The above are all factory conditions. After market accessories can change that.

Good luck with the discussion, I am enjoying it and learning as well. After all isn't that what this is all about?


------------------
Eric Baatz 1996 Suzuki KING QUAD Remember the KING Lives!!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2000, 01:22 PM
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To which Artic Cat are you referring? I personally know that the Artic Cat 500, 454, and 300 do not have a locking front end. Inside the differential where the clutch pack is located it is a completely sealed unit. There is no aftermarket locker for these quads to my kowledge. I callled ATV lockers and talked with Henry and he confirmed my theory. He is the original designer of the locker by the way. He said it was impossible to make one for either the Suzuki or the Artic Cat. If you can prove me wrong please do. My fingers are poised waiting on your reply.

Jolly
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2000, 01:35 PM
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Vasquez, along the muddy bank of the informal mudhole of last fall's Tour de Forest, Marienville, PA, several witnesses (including at least one bona fide mechanic) inspected both Arctic Cat 300 and Suzuki King Quad front ends, in my presence.

Consensus: Arctic Cat 300 and Suzuki King Quads possess identical front differentials, except: the Arctic Cat lacks the linkage mechanism enabling front differential locking. Modifying the linkage of the AC, enabling rider-controlled locking of its front end, as featured on the King Quad, appeared plausible to the assembled group.

You may have contradictory information; I've shared mine. However, the locker developed by Henry is a PERMANENT locker, a device defeating differential action continually as long as the locker, instead of the OEM components, is installed. By contrast, the stock King Quad (and little brother) front ends are LOCKABLE, or LOCKING; when unlocked, normal differential action occurs.

Prolonging this discussion, the REAR differential of the Kawasaki Bayou 300 2WD is also LOCKING; by means of a lever, the operator may either lock the two rear wheels together, or permit rear differential action, appearing as the only ATV available with a rear differential, locking or otherwise.

Tree Farmer



[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 01-11-2000).]
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2000, 06:01 PM
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polaris does not have sensors.it is pure mecanical action the wire going to the hub is to turn it off or on.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2000, 09:35 PM
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Vasquez,I have a Rancher 4x4 and had three wheels up in the air and one on the ground and the one on the ground pulled me forward enough to get me off a large log.I also had a Honda 300 4x4 and it would not begin to pull me off the log.(off camber)ATV 4-Wheel Action also tested the new Honda Suretrac front differential and said Quote("Right off the bat we found out that the Suretrac front end works.We took the Rancher slowly up a stream bank at an angle,at the top the right front wheel went skyward,it stopped spinning and the grounded left wheel kept pulling! Perfect!")Everybody else that i talk to about their Ranchers pretty much have similar stories.Are you sure that you really tested a Rancher or are you telling a Tall Story!
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Old 01-11-2000, 09:35 PM
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Tags
1994, 300, atv, bayou, differential, front, gears, kawasaki, limited, limitedslip, lock, locking, quad, replace, shaft, slip, spider



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