Thanks Tree Farmer, it makes sense now. The term "limited slip" refers to the fact that some (10-30%) torque is applied to the wheel still with traction whereas an "open type" differential would apply no torque in this situation. And from what many folks are saying, this is often not enough to get you out of a mudhole.

It seems then that the best design is one that includes BOTH the limited-slip design with the lock-in feature for use as a backup.

Sound right?

 

The new Rancher and Rubicon will not be fully loked. They have an AP diff. It is limited slip. It will not lock up fully. The theory was that the traction is transfered to the tire needing the most traction, but it doesn't work like that. Put the quad up on two jacks so that both rears and on front clear the ground leaving on tire on the ground. It will not pull itself off the jacks. In response to Tree Farmer the Traxter is the same way. It will not fully lock up, but is much better than the Honda diffs. The Polaris front ends are fully locked as well. You left that one out.

Jolly

 

Vasquez-You said that is the way it is supposed to work, but doesn't. Why do you say that? Have you tried this? Or, I guess I should ask, if that is what it is designed to do, but doesn't, why doesn't it?

 

Vasquez, I did not mention Polaris in my list of locking differentials because Polaris has no differential at all.

The front final drive (up to the front hubs) of Polaris machines is exactly like the rear drive of all quads (except the Bayou 300 2WD with its locking rear differential) in that the axles (or half-shafts) are always spooled, all the time.

Since the subject was differentials and Polaris has none, I didn't mention them. However, when Polaris front hubs are ENGAGED, a function of both 1) AWD system ENABLED, and 2) rear-wheel SLIPPAGE relative to the front wheels, the drivetrain functions like that of a locked 4X4 (power to all four wheels).

Tree Farmer

[This message has been edited by Tree Farmer (edited 01-06-2000).]

 

thats right. I didnt know you were going to get tech. with me. Actually like you said, in order for the four wheel drive to enguage the rear tires must complete a certain distance of revolution. In other words there is a sensor that detects the rear slipping from traction. It is then that the front is enguaged and pulls. This is a problem b/c in real world applications you cant always rev up high rpms with your tires. Espically if you have like the Vampires, which have great grip and will not slip, the front ends are hard to enguage at times.
On footnote, to answer all your other questions, yes I have tested the front end of a rancher. It is limited slip like the old ones. It just seems a little stiffer thats all. The Rubicon will be the same. If you want a locker for the Honda, there is only one cure! Buy a locker like I did. I LOVE IT.

Jolly

 

Also there is no 20-30% traction in the mud. On trails maybe one tire may receive 20-30 and the other 70-80 in order to keep control and for steering ease. The mud is a different scenerio. Either a tire is pulling or its not. When you get off camber 9 times out of 10 it is not. ALL HONDAS ARE LIMITED SLIP. THATS SUCKS FOR MUD RIDDERS.

Jolly

 

Vasquez,I have 26 inch Mud Runners all the way around on the Polaris Sportsman.These tires offer one of the highest amount of grip today of the mud/snow catagorie tires.I absolutly love the AWD system that is on my 4x4.It is probably the only thing that has never let me down.Allowing engagement of the AWD system has been flawless to.I guess what im trying to say is that the AWD system regardless of the tires,has really worked well for me.======BILL

------------------

 

Vasquez- guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I talked with Honda today and they totally refute your representation of the new AP diff. You expressed personal experience with it. Do you have a Rancher?
To tell you the truth. This is nitpicking stuff, but it is all in fun and everybody gets to express their beliefs. No matter what you have or how it works, you will get stuck (unless you never go anywhere). And, sometimes getting stuck only matters your riding position. After 4 or 5 people with 26 or 27 inch tires go thru and dig out the ruts, it is going to be a problem if you are #10,15, 20, etc. Then, you better have a reliable way to get out.
So, if you are happy with yours, that's good, cause I'm happy with mine.

[This message has been edited by TxDoc2 (edited 01-06-2000).]

 

TxDoc2,
Well, I am not happy with the new diff. because there really nothing new about it. The new diff increases steering ease. It will not fully lock up, nor will it do anything similar to this. It is limited slip and performs identical to the older foremans and fourtrax. Dont take my word for it, put it up on jacks and watch it sit there. That one front tire will not pull itself off the jacks.
A fully locked ATV will absolutley walk off and leave an unlocked bike. You ask me how I know this? Mud riding is all I have been doin for the last 6 years all over the southern United States. Im not saying that you have not. Its just that if you ride in mud like you claim, then you would be agreeing with me not disagreeing. You cant argue that being fully locked doesnt make a difference, because it does!
You say you spoke with Honda engineers? Or did you speak with your Honda dealer? BIG DIFFERENCE. If indeed you spoke with actual Honda engineers then please be so kind as to inform me on the process you used to get through to them b/c I have been trying for months with no success. I talked to a plethora of recordings with no intentions of letting me through to an actual person.

Secondly, on the Polaris. You are right! Thats right.... most of the time you are correct. There are instances when it becomes a problem. I know because on our Polaris here it has failed us in needing situations. If the rear tires dont spin slightly the front tires will not pull. Trust me.

Finally, you all ask how I know this. Lets just say, my line of work brings me in contact with all types of quads daily. I ride everywhere and meet peolple from all over the world. When I speak of these things it is because I have either done it myself, seen it done, or heard about it soooo many times I believe it. Dont believe me though, put what I say to the test and you'll see that Im right most of the time.

Last of all...... your right TxDoc2 this is in all good fun. If people agreed all the time there would no need for these forums. I expect some people to disagree. Thats what makes this fun.

Keep Slingin Mud,
Jolly

 

Did not look close, but has anyone mentioned the unique design that Suzuki utilizes on their quads. Does it really outperform the conventional limited-slip design?

[This message has been edited by drlaney (edited 01-07-2000).]