Not trying to P you off Last1. I suspect they will make a 650EX that will be very detuned. I think racers are not looking for 400+ pound machines. I own and have ridden Hondas since 82 (I was 12 then). I know they are reliable. A piston and rings every 100 hours under race level use is not high maintenance. I have a 250R manual in front of me and it says to replace the piston and rings every 30 hours and more frequently if ridden in "adverse" conditions.

If the CRF450 requires and "arseload" of maintenance, how can it be a Honda? After all a Honda dirt bike is the same Honda that makes Honda quads?? Isn't it?? High performance machines require maintenance no matter who produces them. A 650EX will not be a high performance machine if they do produce it. It will be innovative and faster than a Raptor with better handling. It will probably make a good cross country racer when modified extensivley, but I think it will be rather heavy like all 4 stroke machines (including the C-dale, don't get me wrong these machines are the current pinnacle of high performance ATV's). I would like to see a machine that weighs no more than 350 lbs, 330 would be better, and Honda can do it with the CRF450 motor and EXISTING technology. Just think what they can do if they start from scratch.

 

dune addict you made a comment that didnt quite make any sense, you said you hate 4 strokes couse they arent true high performance oriented, and your example was power to weight ratio. Do you really want to get into this argument? Because you will loose......there is only one machine in the entire universe that has a better power to weight ratio that the dale, and that is the suzuki 500, yes bless their soul. everything else is second fiddle to the dale. Sorry to burst your bubble, I too would love to have the 250r re-released, but even then, a STOCK 250R will not hold a candle to a STOCK dale, nor should it, it was made 1? years ago.
Just pointing out a fact.

 

A modern 2 stroke in a 250R would have more hp than a dale. Everybody who has ridden modern 4 strokes (I have a 426) knows that it isn't all about peak hp numbers, it has to do with ridable power. KTM gets 50 RWHP out of this years 250SX, I think power NEAR that level in a 330lb R would probably give the Dale a pretty good run for it's money under any concievable racing condition that applies to a quad.

 

I guess your right it WILL be detuned. Just like the Raptor.

Every 20 hours!?!?!?!?! Whatever happened to people getting years to a top end?

 

Yeah, thats true... I have been on the line next to a lot of quads that have more power than me, but I have beaten a lot of them to the first corner. You can have a lot of power but if you don't have good gearing or it doesnt rev real fast, it won't help you much. That is one of the reasons the Cannondale's are concidered "holeshot machines". They rev very fast like 2-strokes, and make good power but they don't spin like 2-strokes. The power band kicks in harder than other 4-strokes but is still smoother than 2-strokes so you don't loose traction so bad.

 

If honda makes another 250r, then they won't be able to sell it for very long, because the eco-freaks are going to find a way and ban 2 smokes. Mxdale71, I have an Ex, but I don't hate Dales.I wouldn't trade my bike in for a Dale, though. The reason why is because there are more performance kits for a 400, and I ride desert, so I want skids. Dales don't have skids built. I like my Honda anyway.

 

quite frankly, i don't give a flying F*** if honda puts out a "better" quad. i really think the only drawback to the 400ex is its lack of displacement. the debate over what honda is going to put out is entirely fruitless considering none of us are major shareholders or corporate executives with honda. threads such as these let me know that the Enquirer will survive for decades to come.


i'm such an @sshole.

 

Well Mr. MXDale71

Here's a little more sarcasm for you!

The Pro GNC riders got tired of riding 15 year old machines!!!! And NO! 4-strokes ARE NOT high performance! (Time to dig out the old dictionary and get the full mental picture of what high performance really means)
The machines you mention are higher performance than a Raptor,Warrior, blaster, 250X, 300EX, and so on... yes!
Guess you can't imagine what realy high performance COULD be??? Evidently not!
AS MY ORIGINAL POST MENTIONED: A quad based on a CR500 platform would be a true High performance machine! Get real, Aint no thumper gunna play with that big gun!
I would consider a 4-stroker on the CBR1100XX platform as high performance!

What I'm asking for is some MODERN high performance machines!

Yes you're right! Most of the top riders in the Pro class are riding "SPORT" machines, because that's all that is available!



<<<<<Duneaddict - 4-strokes aren't high performance????? LOL, I guess a majority of the Pro GNC riders just got tired of high performance and switch to sport quads huh? I mean, hell, Tim Farr's CRF440 isn't high performance, Creeches YZF440 isn't either. Doug Gust he definitely doesn't have a high performance quad... I mean his DRZ440 has ELECTRIC START! Well crap... now that I think of it, most of the top riders in the Pro class all ride "sport" quads, cause they certainly aren't highperformance because they're 4-strokes.

P.S. If you couldn't tell... I was being sarcastic in that last paragraph. >>>>>

 

Mr. Trout,

I never said I hated 4-strokes, just mentioned that they are not for me.

Yes, I will stand by my agrument of power to weight ratio, as you see, I do ride an antique LT500. I would like a MODERN day equivalent and/or improved machine with todays technology.
(Per my wet dream of a CR500 based quad)
I'm here dissing Honda for never making a true 'big bore' quad... And for discontinuing the best machine they've ever made!

You're right about stock for stock! (250R vs. C-dale) But let's look at the age difference not to mention the cost delta! (The technology has evolved in 13 years hasn't it?)
But I'll guarantee that my R responds much better to Mods than your Dale. (Who rides a stocker anyway?)It's not that hard to reach the 50+ horsepower numbers on the R... How about the Dale?

What I'm trying to say is... give me a modern day Race quad (THat doesn't cost $12K for a 4-stroker)



<<<dune addict you made a comment that didnt quite make any sense, you said you hate 4 strokes couse they arent true high performance oriented, and your example was power to weight ratio. Do you really want to get into this argument? Because you will loose......there is only one machine in the entire universe that has a better power to weight ratio that the dale, and that is the suzuki 500, yes bless their soul. everything else is second fiddle to the dale. Sorry to burst your bubble, I too would love to have the 250r re-released, but even then, a STOCK 250R will not hold a candle to a STOCK dale, nor should it, it was made 1? years ago.
Just pointing out a fact.>>>>>

 

Dune Addict, how can you say that modern day fourstrokes are not high preformance? True the old fourstrokes of yesterday such as XRs, and the old DRs wouldn't hold a candle to a 125 yet alone a 250. But the new CRF 450, KTMs, and the new YZF450 can easily keep up with and beat modern day 250s. I know that they need almost twice the displacment but that doesn't mean they are any less high performance. They are more modern and advanced than the two strokes. Think of it, what was the last advancment in two storkes since power valves? Most revisions made to a MX bike from year to year are porting and pipe specs, suspension, ergos, etc.... Hondas 250 with the electronic powervalved was the newest thing in years. Now look at the fourstrokes, titanium valves, 5 valve heads, double overhead cam, they are constantly trying to improve these engines and up the performance, look at the YZ 250F motor, it is so advanced that it is actually lighter than the 250 two stroke motor. That just shows how much technology goes into these machines.