I have a 03 rubicon and for some reason I have to pump the brake 3 times to get it to hold. I bled both sides I am fairly certain there is no air in the line, but the brakes still have to be pumped. I can't figure it out?

 

I had that problem with my bike and i never figured it out. I ended up buying new calipers and brake levers. it worked then

 

You could need to take off the drum and wash out the mud and water and then adjust the brakes real good and that might fix it also. I have had to do this a few times with my recon and it will fix it. Just my thoughts on the problem.

 

If the front drums are OK, then you may just need to rebuild the master cylinder. Honda has a kit to do just that.

 

Pop the red plugs out of the drums, and adjust the brake shoes, there are 2 slave cylinders per wheel, so both need to be adjusted the same amount. The arrows on the cylinders just below the adjuster wheels point in the direction of tightening. I will usually turn them until they feel snug, then back each off 2 to 3 clicks.
Then see if the lever needs to be pumped. If it does there is air trapped in the line somewhere. Normally air will hang up at the highest piont possable, where the line screws to the master cylinder. Place a rag under the connection and bleed it by loosening the line attatching bolt, there, like bleeding a bleeder screw, and removing the air there first.
ATV's and motorcycle master cylinders move a lower amount of fluid than a car, because of the smaller piston size, so it may take longer to bleed, or untrap air from a high point.
I seldom bleed brakes manualy, I use a Vacula, or a vacume pump.
I have had some units that are real stubborn to where the brake handle must be tied to the handle bar overnight with the master cylinder cover off to let the air pocket bleed itself out by itself. (Mostly on older Honda Gold Wings and Pilots that have been sitting a while)



----- Gimpster -----

 

Will that trick of tieing the handle to the bars always work? I had the red plugs out and adjusted them tell it seemed like they were dragging then backed them off a couple clicks and it helped but only lasted a tank or 2. I haven't tried taking off the drums and cleaning them. How do they come off? Also how do you know when they are adjusted all the way and just need to be replaced?

 

I would like say that the handle bar is fool proof, but I can't. It does not always work.

The center axle nut holds the drums on.

When the brake shoes are new, the pads are 4 mm thick, the service limit is 2 mm.
I believe the drum inside diameter new is 160 mm and max service limit is 161 mm. ( This might be the drum spec for a 450, I don't have the Rubicon manual in front of me. I will double check the spec when I am at work tomorrow and change it if it is wrong. )

Also, if your fluid is dark, change it.

----- Gregg -----

 

I took off the brake drums and all the parts are covered in mud. I was going to take the power washer to it but then thought I would ask on here. The exposed splines and bearing make me nervous. What should I use to clean it? I tried brake and electrical cleaner doesn't work on the mud. Also I think last time I adjusted them I only adjusted one of the wheels inside the drum. How do you know when they are the same?

 

Take a look at the number of threads the adjusters are turned out.

When a unit comes across my bench that is that bad inside, I will check the wheel bearings for loosness, take the brake assembly apart, remove the lower shock bolt and tie up the shock, unhook the lower ball joint, swing the knuckle up and turn it to the side to remove the axle. Normally the wheel bearings and seals need to be replaced, so I will duct tape over the differential ends where the axles were removed , you do not have to remove the axles from the diffy, but if you do, make sure the c-clip opening is facing up to make axle instalation easy, and pressure wash the brake assembly. If the bearings are good, I have some plastic caps that fit in the seals to cover the bearings, then scrub the backing plate and components with soapy water and a stainless steel bristled tooth brush. Reguardless, I replace all seals, including the big one on the outer edge of the drum. Normally I clean the brake drum shoe surface with a scotchbrite pad then check it for out of roundness. Reinstall new shoes ( they are shot, glazed ) and put it all back together. When I have it all apart I clean the adjusters ( one at a time to keep them from getting confused ) and back them all the way down after I lube the threads. When the assembly is all together, I will rotate one adjuster out as far as it will go, counting the teeth as I go, when it is snug, I back it off half the amount of turns, rotate the wheel 180 degrees and adjust the other, counting as I go, then adjust the two when they are equal.

note : before I assemble the brakes shoes, I will coat the backing plate with an automotive ignition sealer to keep the oxidation (rust) from spreading to the new shoes and cleaned drums.

----- Gregg -----

 

My Foreman brakes got the same way last week. Real mushy almost squeezing all the way against the handlebars before it would stop. It has about 60 hours on it now..I pulled out the little red plugs in the brake drums and adjusted the brakes..the lever pull is fine now. Your brakes may just need adjusted as well.