I've owned a lot of quads 2 400ex's, 2 450R's, Warrior, 250R and a Banshee but I've always liked Honda's and the last time I was reading this board most thought the the Suzuki LTZ 400 was the best 400 around, is that still the case and are they all basically the same, do they all have reverse?
"Best" means different things to different riders, and the fact that you don't understand that with all your experience with different machines is surprising!!!
If you want a tight trail quad, the 400EX and its little brother the 300EX are the "best" quads of all time, in that venue. If you want to ride faster more open trails and wide open country, in the 400 class the Z400 is the "best".
The Z has had reverse all along, and the EX got it in 05. The Z got fuel injection last year, but it also weighs a good bit more than the EX. The EX is now a fair bit cheaper than the Z. I could go on and on nit-picking, but by now you should have gotten the picture.....
__________________
So. Calif. Deserts and Mountains!
Desert- 450R
Trail- 400EX
Mountain Technical Trail- Rancher 420 and 350
Kids- Two 250EX's, TRX 90
Dual-Sport Bikes- KLX250S, XT225
I had a Z for a few years, and that engine is solid and reliable. The frame isn't as robust as the Honda, but still you would really have to abuse it to do any harm.
What I hated about the Z was that it would alway jump nose low. No matter what I did...gas it hard on the takeoff, do a panic rev in the air, lean way back, it alway flew nose down. Had a chance to sell it at a good price, so I got rid of it.
__________________
So. Calif. Deserts and Mountains!
Desert- 450R
Trail- 400EX
Mountain Technical Trail- Rancher 420 and 350
Kids- Two 250EX's, TRX 90
Dual-Sport Bikes- KLX250S, XT225
I agree with Recon, As i have never jumped one, but have been told the same thing about the Z when in the air. It does not like to fly straight, the EX flies nice and smooth. As for reliability, I have never heard anything bad about the Z, and the EX has one of the best motors of all time.(bulletproof)
I agree with Recon, As i have never jumped one, but have been told the same thing about the Z when in the air. It does not like to fly straight, the EX flies nice and smooth. As for reliability, I have never heard anything bad about the Z, and the EX has one of the best motors of all time.(bulletproof)
This "nose low" thing is something I first heard here from Recon, I never really noticed it before and no one who rode my z400 noticed it either......
But then I rode a friends 400ex, and he rode my z400 and we both said the opposite thing. He said my Z was jumping nose low, and I felt his 400ex was jumping nose HIGH......Every jump I was hitting the front end was too high and I was having to correct before landing.
On my z400 I land everything nice and flat. And if I am nose low, a quick yank on the bars flattens it all out perfectly.
So I watched him jump my z400 and I noticed it was not really as "nose low" as he suspected. It was either flat, or slightly nose low which is what you want if you land on the downside of a jump.
He then made the point that the z400 was designed for motocross, and in motocross you almost always land on the down side of a jump. And if you are going to scrub that jump you want the machine to get nose low as quick as possible. You don't want to be nose high in MX at all or you lose speed on the jumps.
So to experiment I got back on my z400 and jumped the same jump a bunch of times and I realized the issue. If you lean back while you jump the z400, it does not respond nose high as you would suspect. It scrubs the jump expecting a seat bounce. If the seat bounce does not happen it will pop up flat. If you seat bounce it will launch perfectly, even nose high at times. If you stand up straight and neutral as you hit the jump, it will fly perfectly flat also.
I then did the same jump with my buddy's 450R and it did the same exact thing as the z400. If you leaned back but did not use a seat-bounce it would jump flat just like the z400....... However, the 450R would also react the same as the 400ex if you leaned back on the jump. The 450R could jump perfectly BOTH ways......
So we determined it has to do with the suspension and not the geometry. The 400ex has old school spring suspension, and the 450R has really nice top end multi-adjust suspension. The z400 is in the middle so it can do more than the 400ex but not as much as the 450R.
The 400EX is good for lugging around slow... and it handles pretty well... particularly for what it is stock...
But when it comes to whoops, humps and jumping I really have to argue with these guys...
I think the 4 stroke Honda rear ends SUCK!
The swing arms have too steep of an angle, and the progression rate provided by the rear shock linkage SUCKS!
It's a bucking bronco at the best you can do on everything but track-style jumps.
It is at my weight anyways....
It bucks and kicks off A LOT of things that launch you.
So I find it often wants to fly nose low because it wants to kick rear high off things.
I've had it almost kick me off and I weigh about 200 lbs.
So far, I have found no way to adjust it out either.
I think an aftermarket link, and at least matching revalve/respring is the only answer.
In my opinion, the 400EX is a good slow tight technical trail bike.
But the Z400 is a way better starting platform for something more.
The frame issues are now resolved also...
That was the only thing that kept me from them.
In hindsight I would have been far better off to have just gusseted one.
__________________ '00 TRX400EX
A project in progress......brought to a screeching halt (3/09)....Time for a new 450R!
Is the LTZ 400 still the best 400 around?
