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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:50 AM
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Default 400cc Jianshe No Spark Problem

Quote:
RGregorie: Hi Lynn, quick question on my cdi for a jianshe 400cc motor. I have three plugs 7 wires. One plug has red and a green. Power and ground. Does the ground need to be grounded to frame or can it be grounded at battery. Also should thaT red power be getting 12 v constantly. The reason I ask is because I I have my toggle switch coming off my relay then from my switch to a push button start then I have my power wires which would go to red on cdi and it is constant 12 . Is this normall or should it only gwt voltGe when I push strt

Lynn Edwards: I'm working on this. I don't know off hand, so I'm researching 7 wire 3 plug CDIs. I will get back to you. To post diagrams, or respond in detail I may have to do this in the public forums. I can't post pic's or write more than 1000 characters in the visitor messge section.
I've copied this into the main forum from the visitor message forum because it is just too difficult to respond without pictures and with the 1000 character limit in the visitor message area.

Here is a picture from MotorPartsDealer.com showing a 7 wire 3 connector CDI. Does this look like your CDI? Also, do the wire colors match up?

[click or hover over the thumbnails to get a full size image]

400cc Jianshe No Spark Problem-7-wire-3-plug-cdi-picture.jpg

And here is a wiring diagram for a 250 Jianshe engine with a 7 wire 3 connector CDI:

400cc Jianshe No Spark Problem-jianse-250cc-7-wire-cdi-wiring.jpg

And finally another wiring diagram for a 7 wire 2 plug CDI, but note how the wire colors on the CDI match up:

400cc Jianshe No Spark Problem-7-wire-cdi-wire-colors.jpg

So the question is: Does your CDI wire colors match up to the diagrams above? And does your CDI look like the CDI picture above? If so that is hopeful. There is still a discrepancy involved between the three documents above that we will have to iron out (which involves the green and red wires too), but a few ohmmeter checks should get us past that hurdle. But first before we go sailing off to nowhere let's make sure that your CDI is the same colors and style as in the above documents. SO please verify that before we continue...
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:56 AM
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Thanks for looking into this problem. I bought just the motor brand new I am putting it in a little race go kart. So I have no need for a harness or the $100 plus price tag. Along with motor I was given the cdi that you posted 7 wire three plug. And the rect/regulator. But I was not aware of the two prong coil that supposedly goes with the motor. Yes the 250 wires are the same color coming from CDi and the blk and blue from the stator are the same . I don't have the yellow/green and red doing from stator. The orange coming from CD confuses me when it changes to black.
Still not sure about this kill switch . I hooked up a toggle switch for kill coming from CDi blk /white and grounded it to frame still nonspark
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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What are all the wire colors coming out of the stator? You should have seven:

1) Three white wires which go to the rectifier/regulator via a three pin connector.
2) The black and blue wires which go to the CDI via a 2 pin connector.
3) Another two wires (I'm looking for these two wire colors) which go to the CDI via a two pin connector (red and green wires at the CDI).

Notice how this CDI is powered looking at the 250cc wiring diagram, and the 7 wire cdi wiring. This is an AC powered CDI which is powered by a moderately high voltage winding from the stator. There is no 12 volt *anything* in your ignition system.

Now for the discrepancies in the three attachments above:

It is very common for wiring diagrams to have multiple glaring errors in them, and the 250cc diagram above has two very suspicious connections in them which I think are wrong.

1) You already found one of them where the CDI output (orange) is wired to ground (black) in the diagram (and ground from the CDI is wired to the ignition coil primary). Those two wires need to be reversed so that the orange wire from the CDI is wired to the ignition coil primary input. and the black wire from the same connector ties to frame ground somewhere near the ignition coil. When you reverse those two wires note how it now matches the 7 wire CDI diagram posted above.

2) Note on the 7 wire CDI picture there is a rubber boot *only* on the red and green wires. Rubber boots indicate high voltage wiring (because water conducts high voltage). That fits in with the 7 wire CDI diagram where is shows the red and green wires as being the moderately high voltage AC power wires from the stator (moderately high voltage means 50-300 volts AC). Does your CDI have the rubber boot on the red and green wires? But note that on the 250cc wiring diagram the red and green wires are shown going to the trigger pickup coil (which is outside the flywheel), and the blue and black wires are wired to the AC power winding (which is inside the flywheel). I think this is backwards, but it might just be the schematic symbol for the stator is drawn wrong. The trigger pickup coil is not drawn outside the stator circle, and the AC power winding is not drawn inside the stator. In other words, the wiring and wiring colors are correct - only the internal configuration of the stator is drawn wrong.

So find the other two wires coming out of the stator and report their colors. Then unplug the stator and measure the AC voltage coming out of stator on the the blue and black wires while cranking the starter motor. What do you measure? I would expect a really low voltage - like 0.3 volts AC. Then measure the other two wires while cranking the starter motor. These should measure 40 -80 volts AC..

What is this two prong coil that you are talking about?

The kill switch is in the "run" or "enable spark" mode when the switch is open (off). The kill switch is in the "stop" or "spark killed" mode when the switch is shorted (on).
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:00 PM
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This motor only has the three white going to rectifier and a black and blue, has no red or green from stator only on cdi and yes my red and green have the rubber. I was told that the cdi was dc system and that red was to power (bat) and green was to ground. The two prong coil is just a bigger coil with two leads one has + the other has - both are on same end with the normal bolt hole grounds on each end. I was told that it was needed for this motor but cant seem to find any other motors that use it.
The blue from stator while cranking is .03 the black is .01 ,.05 ,.13 should the black be fluctuatin. Then with the cdi plugged back in not cranking I only get power out of the black/white 12v constant. And no matter what positiin killl is in it will still try to turn over. Both side so of killl always have 12v. Could this be a grounding issue.
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Old 08-25-2012, 05:13 PM
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In looking into this further I found a Jianshe 400cc wiring diagram. Unfortunately the diagram is in such poor resolution it mostly unreadable. But I was able see that your stator does not have the AC ignition power winding (as you just pointed out). Therefore your quad ignition has to be DC powered, but all the indicators are that the CDI with the three connectors is AC powered. I'm thinking you have the wrong CDI.

Also on the new mostly unreadable wiring diagram I see that the CDI is a 5 pin single connector CDI. When I search for Jianshe 400cc CDIs I find that most of them are 5 pin single connector versions.

An AC CDI will not work on DC. Are you sure this CDI is the right one for your quad?
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:37 PM
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I found several wiring diagrams for jianshe 400cc and not one has 7 write cdi. I went back to the place I bought everything from and told the guy that every other jianshe motor has a 5 pin cdi. He tolds me that he gave me what goes with that motor. I think he is wrong and im glad you would agree. I have a baja 90cc that is 5 pin cdi would that work on this 400. I assume not but thiught I would ask. I am going back on monday and talking to this guy again
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:45 PM
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I don't know about the Baja 5 pin CDI. I would be leary of subsituting a CDI from such a vastly different engine design. But I really don't know if it would work right or not.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:20 PM
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I think I will hold off on pushing my luck thanks
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:53 PM
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Are you watching Mikertldg's posts in this same subforum? He has the same quad with a five pin CDI, and has verified that it is DC powered....
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:53 PM
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Tags
250cc, 400, atv, baja, cdi, chinese, diagrams, ecu, ignition, jianshe, pin, quad, spark, wire, wiring



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