I'll be replacing two of our ATVs this fall, and I am having a heck of a time deciding on the second one. The first is easy, I'll be replacing my '09 Renegade 800R with a '10 Renegade 800R X xc. I like the performance of the Renegade and want to get the upgraded suspension and power steering the new model has. The second ATV will be an ATV my wife will ride when we go on rides together, although she could certainly ride the Renegade X xc if she wanted to, because she has ridden my Renegade several times already, and the only thing she doesn't like about it is the suspension that is stiff at slow speeds, and the noise from the aftermarket exhaust. Her current ATV that is being replaced is a Grizzly 700 by the way.

The second ATV will also have to serve as a trail maintenance quad for some ATV trails the local group of ATVers have been building for the last 10 years. The trails are the most difficult trails I have personally ever seen, and are usually described as "off the scale" for difficulty when I am brave enough to invite someone new on them. The terrain is steep mountainous terrain with lots of rocks, hillclimbs, downhills, and sidehills. I can't count how many ATVs I've seen roll on these trails, and each and every person that has spent time working on them, actually establishing the trails, has rolled their ATV (self included).

I used to think the Grizzly 700 worked real good for this terrain (and it does), but the Renegade works much better. It is lower, more stable on sidehills, climbs better, and keeps all the tires on the ground better. But I only take the Renegade when the tools are already up at the end of the trail and I don't need to carry anything up the trail. I need an ATV with racks front and rear that I can use for trail work.

I don't want to get another Grizzly, just because I want something different. I'm not interested in a Brute Force or King Quad or Sportsman because I've seen a number of them do the roll over thing. The Rincon is out, because I want alot of horsepower. I'm the kind of person that can never have enough horsepower, its just the way I am.

What about an Outlander 800 XT, or an Arctic Cat Thundercat 1000? The Thundercat is the leading choice right now. I like the extra width and the two inch longer wheelbase that Arctic Cat put on the 1000. I also like the looks of the Thundercat better.

So what do you folks recommend? I'm going back and forth between these two pretty much every day now. Thanks, and sorry for the novel.

 

Outlander

 

Outlander Max XT for sure... standard winch on the XT, good stock tires, TONS of power (in the 800R), and a long wheelbase will keep it stable. The suspension is softer than the Renegade, but not so soft that you are constantly bottoming out.

We've had no problems with ours, and it's an 08. Bulletproof! FAST (I'm sure you'd know being a Renegade 800 owner!)!

Plus, the Outlander is the fastest big bore....I had some stats but I can't find them anymore. I posted them on another topic though. It has the highest power to weight ratio, and I believe the most HP.

 

I would go with one of the 2-up machines if you're going to be on steep hills as you stated. The longer wheelbase makes for a much more stable platform going up and down hills. I've seen the Thundercat up close and it looks to me like it is a bit top heavy. This may be offset by it being 50 inches wide if I remember correctly. A lot of the guys in my ATV club have the Outlanders and swear by them. I have a Polaris Sportsman X2 with the changeable pickup/2nd rider seat. It's extremely stable with the longer wheelbase for hill climbs and it is 48 inches wide for side to side stability. Another thought would be the Polaris RZR. 50 Inch wide side by side with a good sized pickup like bed in the back for toting. It's also got a long wheelbase for stability, with a low center of gravity to top it off. I only rolled my X2 once when I went on a "trail of death" type trail. Got on a nasty side hill and would have made it if I didn't steer wrong and hit a rock on the uphill side of the trail. I learned later it was a motocross bike only extreme rated trail. It'd be nice if your various dealers would let you take each for a ride on your extreme trail to see what you'd like.

 

I don't know exactly what your idea of a "mountain" atv is, but to me that means lots of nasty rocky off-camber terrain, where stability is at a premium!

In that terrain, I don't want anything that is huge or has a high center of gravity. So, my personal choice is the mid-size Honda Rancher 420. I have the SRA model currently, and will probably get the IRS model (the 420AT) as well in the future.

My buddies have lots of big bore long travel models, like Outlanders and Sportsmen, etc., and I ride where they fear to tread, in their huge inherently unstable machines!!!

 

Recon,
Here are a couple pictures from the first part of one of the trails, which is the easy part of that trail. I haven't bothered to take any pictures farther up on the trails because I'm usually doing good just to make it through.

I wish I would have held the camera level for this one. The tree in the center of the picture is a reference to straight up and down.




A couple of notes:

A side by side wont make it, even a 50" wide Rzr.

Reconranger is absolutely 100% correct, the 400cc to 450cc utility quads are certainly more stable on extreme angles. One of the people that is helping build these trails has a Honda Forman 450 (or maybe a 400?), and that thing is all but impossible to tip over because it is so low and has such a low center of gravity. He has tipped it over anyway. And it occaisionally runs out of power on the steepest climbs and slows right down to a stop. Not good.

But, ... the 400cc to 500cc machines are boring in more open terrain. I want something with enough power to scare me from time to time, just because it is more fun, and not necessarily because it is more capable. If all I ever did was the absolutely most difficult terrain a 450 would be an option, but we also trail ride on more "normal" trails, where more power is more FUN.

So I have tried to eliminate the quads that I think are too big or to unstable on extreme terrain. The Grizzly is ok, but too tippy compared to my Renegade. Too bad the Renegade doesn't have racks, because it is the most impressive extreme terrain ATV I have ever ridden. The Brute Force is just as tippy as the Grizzly, or more so, at least compared to the new Grizzly 700. The Sportsman 850 is too big, but mainly too heavy.

Which brings me back to my first two choices ... Outlander vs Thundercat.

I've ridden an Outlander Max. The longer wheelbase helps on the vertical stuff but slows down cornering and can be a real issue on switchbacks, especially downhill switchbacks. After riding one I don't want the Max version.

I know nothing about Arctic Cat ATVs though. I've never ridden one, and have not seen one on a tough trail to see how it does. Has anyone ridden one that can say how they do? Are they a good ATV? Are they stable on difficult terrain? Are they reliable?

Thanks. DV

 

On a Canadian ATV forum I'm on I hear there are a few guys with Thundercats that are fairly happy with them.

Though according to Can-Ams measurements (it says they compare "as per manufacturer's official MY09 declaration to the Air Resource Board), the Outlander 800R makes 71 hp, the Sportsman XP 850 makes 69.1, the Thundercat makes 65.8, and the Brute Force 750 makes 49.8. So the Outlander makes the most HP in it's class.

As for power-to-weight ratio (hp/100lbs), the Outlander 800R has 10.6, the Sportsman XP 850 has 8.8, the Tundercat has 9.2, and the Brute Force makes 8.2. So the Outlander also has the best power-to-weight ratio.

Bottom line.... the Outlander is the fastest and most powerful!

 

Nice pics, but nothing unusual compared to what I ride everyday. In fact, it looks very much like the desert side my local mountains.....

And a little rock crawling fun thrown in.... http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/Trail+.../detail/330535

 

Well, he did say:

 

Nice pics on that link Recon. I'm thinking it just wasn't worth it for this fellow, on that day.



Reminds me of why I'm selling my Jeep.