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Posted by: JayBR
This exact same thing happened to me this evening while trying to update the TPS. Lost communication with the computer and now I can't do anything. When I hit the button to turn on the ECU the fuel pump doesn't run and it obviously won't start. I do get a green light on the cable.
I guess I'll call Scooter tomorrow, I probably need to reload the op code.
Posted by: JayBR
Looks like my ECU is dead. Cannondale authorized a new one even though my warranty expired last month and Kyle at R&S is overnighting me one. Can't ask for better customer service.
Posted by: JayBR
I've talked to Optimum, Cannondale, and R&S about this. Don't really have any specifics but since I am a software engineer and my background is in computer hardware I'll fill in the blanks.
Apparently there is an occasional problem on some ECU's that if they loose connection the OP code gets corrupted. The thing that is unclear is does a bad ECU cause the dropped connection or does a dropped connection corrupt the ECU. I could test this but don't want to risk another ECU. I was told that in some cases the OP code could be reloaded successfully but not always.
The guys at Optimum say that if the problem occurs it is because of a faulty ECU and that reloading the OP code is only a temporary fix and the problem will eventually re-occur. Optimum also says that the software has no way of corrupting the OP code so it must be a hardware failure. If what Optimum says is correct, there are some ECU's out there that are bad, but the problem will only show up if your doing mapping. This could only be early ones, but I don't have any data on that. My Speed is #24.
If this is correct then using the software would not fry an ECU but could identify a bad one. The other issue is that it may take awhile for the problem to surface. I've had the software about a month and loaded different maps sucessfully on several occasions. Tough call if your out of warranty, but Cannondale is taking care of mine.
If the ECU's are not faulty then its a design problem on the Optimum side of things. I've got some ideas, but without knowing any architectural details of the software I'm only speculating.
Posted by: JayBR
Something I just thought of:
My Speed was subjected to a to service bulletin SBA01-11 entitled "Starter solenoid kickback voltage and MC1000 ECU damage" Maybe the root of my recent failure is a problem that was caused prior to this fix being applied.
Posted by: JayBR
OK, got another ECU this afternoon, installed it, read the map off of it, update injector flow rate, TPS, etc. Sending the updates to the ECM it lost communications again and I'm back to the same problem. I'm really starting to think this is a software issue, the failure on Wednesday happened as I was trying to update the TPS, that was the first time I had done that, same thing today. Guess I won't be riding today as planned, and I just blew $40 on overnight shipping with saturday delivery. This is really pissing me off now, I think if I had the software to reload the OP code I would probably have been up and running a couple days ago.
Another thing, Cannondale has a parts bulletin that states the maintenance and diag software has been upgraded from version 1.1 to 2.0 as of 5/22, I just purchased mine last month from Optimum and they sent me version 1.1. The bulletin also states that version 2.0 has the ability to load OP code.
Posted by: JayBR
<< 1.1 will install operating code when you boot up the computer you need to have freedos in the floppy disc cannondale will supply this free.I think you only need it if you are running windows 2000 or newer. >>
I specifically asked about this the other day and they said maintenance adn Diag wouldn't load OP code. The bottom line is they sent me an outdated version of the software.
The other issue is no support after normal business hours. It's one of the nicest weekends we've had in awhile, I had a bunch of friends that wanted me to ride yesterday, and the Dale isn't running because of a software problem.
Posted by: JayBR
It doesn't work with the user version and I don't have any .hex files.
My new ECU was loaded with everything but my calibration settings, but when I tried to load them it died.
Posted by: JayBR
Still working on this problem with no resolution so far. Waiting on another ECU to get my quad back up and running, and hoping to eventually get to the bottom of what caused the problem.
Posted by: JayBR
The problem is I don't really have a local dealer to work with. The closest dealer is 100 miles away, and they are only open until 6:00 and don't really so service on weekends. I've been mailing stuff back and forth to the factory and R&S.
Apparently version 1.1 is the current customer version, 2.0 is for dealers only. None of the customer versions allow the loading of HEX code.
Posted by: JayBR
<< If you give R.S. allyour variables and tell them what map you want they could program that all in before you even get the ecm.When you get it just plug it in your quad if it works then the problem has to be Optimum or it possibly could be the wiring ordiagnostic plug to the ecm everything else would be eliminated I will check the manual but I think there is some pin tests for the plug and wiring I will post later today. >>
This is exactly whats going on right now, should have the new one tomorrow. I'm not going to hook up the software to this one, I'll probably be getting one of my old ones back for testing.
Posted by: JayBR
The saga continues.
I got my new ecu today, the quad won't start. Just hooked the ECU up with the bench cable(thanks to Optimum for sending me the cable), the injector offset and flowrate are off considerably from what I had, and it doesn't appear to have a map installed.
of course I could fix all of this, but I'm afraid I'll blow the ECU out again.
Yes I have the authorization codes I need for all three ECU's, that was not a problem.
I saw the post, glad some things where cleared up and sorry if I have caused any confusion around this stuff.
Posted by: JayBR
You got it. I unpacked it and put it in the quad and it wouldn't start. I pulled it off the quad and hooked it to the pc on the bench and it shows no map. It does have calibration settings in it but they don't match what I had before.
Don't worry, I have no intention of giving up. I am determined to get to the bottom of this problem.
Posted by: JayBR
Got my original ECU and the second one I killed back today. Cannondale had no problem loading the op code back in them and putting in a map. I hooked them up to my system and did some testing. I was able to read all the cals and maps off of both of them with no problems. Went to load a map and it hung up and crashed just like last time. Put the second one on and tried a different map, same problem. Interesting thing is this all happened on the bench not on my quad so it's not an electrical problem on the quad.
Stay tuned, more to follow.
Posted by: JayBR
<< Sounds like you may have a bad cable, the sw is corrupt or maybe a bad laptop serial port. If someone else can load a map and you cannot then it has to be something in your setup. >>
Interesting twist is I was able to load a map and cal settings to a third ECU last week on the exact same setup. This one got my quad running again, now I'm just testing with the 2 I had yesterday.
Both the ECU's have been loaded fine with Dealer cal and pro-cal, I'm using Maintenance and Diag.
Another avenue I'm that's interesting is the ECU serial numbers. They are split 4 - 6 digits, the first four digits of the two that die are 1277 and 1312, pretty close together. The one thats working is like 2200. I have no idea if that is manufacturing batch or anything, just a thought.
Posted by: JayBR
An update:
I sent my software, cable, and both of the ECUs I was killing to Optimum last week. They tested my cable and software and said both where fine and sent them back to me. I recieved everything back today, hooked up the laptop and set my TPS - everything worked fine. I then loaded a different map, and again everything worked fine. Reset the TPS just to make sure, and ran the monitor to set the idle - everything is working fine with this ECU.
They still have the ECUs and are running test on them. Interesting thing is that Kyle at R&S and Mark at Cannondale where both able to load OP code and maps into these ECUs with the Dealer Cal version of the software. I believe Pro Cal was also used to load maps, so it appears that the problem could be with these particular ECUs and the Maintenance & Diag version of the software. I'm not jumping to any conclusions yet though, waiting to hear what Optimum finds out.
Posted by: Nut
Yep. Something similar happened to me. I few months ago I took my Speed back to the dealer to get the stall fix and to get it leaned out a bit and when they hooked up to the ECU they couldn't communicate. Sounds like the same problem. They called Cannondale and got a new ECU. Problem solved. The bike wasn't running bad or anything, you just couldn't communicate with the ECU to perform diagnostics or make changes. This kind of worries me though - who's to say that it won't happen again - maybe two years from now. Then I'm stuck paying a couple hundred bucks for a new ECU.
Posted by: Nut
So....let me get this straight - there are now several reports of the ECU failing when connected to the GP Control software and trying to run diagnostics or download maps? JayBR & DirtHawg - is that what you guys are reporting? I'm thinking ahout getting the GP software but if it could potentially fry my ECU then I don't wanna spend the $300.
Posted by: SparkyEX
I originally had the 500 ECU and paid $1000 to have it upgraded to the 1000. The 1000 ECU is only 1 month old. I bought the GP Control SW so that I could download new maps to my ECU. I attempted to download a new Moto map and somehow lost communications with the computer. After restarting the computer and the Cannibal, I was unable to connect to the computer. I took it to the dealer and he was unable to connect as well. I now have a new ECU on order. Anyone else have this happen to them? I'm a little nervous about trying to download new maps when I get the new ECU. Thanks!
Posted by: SparkyEX
Well, I got my new computer and it says unprogrammed on the label. I have ver. 1.1 and need to know what I need to do inorder to get my ECU running properly. Optimum is only open M-F to get the code for the new ECU. So, when I get the code does anyone have ideas on what I need to do? Do I need to download the OP code? I guess I'm a little confused on what needs to be done. I thought I could download the Moto map and tweak the settings for Injector Offset and that would be it. Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks!
Posted by: SparkyEX
I got the code to unlock the GP software and everything worked great. I did not need to download the .hex file. I just downloaded the new map and set my throttle position and everything was fine. The only problem I am having now is "Stalling". This always happens at idle, during powerslides or jumps when I backoff the throttle it will stall. I turned up the idle and it is fine for say 15 minutes then it starts again. Has anyone else had issues with the throttle screw backing off? I have the new smaller idle screw that sits sideways (front to back). I was thinking maybe I would try locktite. Any thoughts on what else may be causing this? I just got a newer map that is supposed to help with stalling but I'm not convinced that is my problem. Thanks!
Posted by: SparkyEX
Sounds like you may have a bad cable, the sw is corrupt or maybe a bad laptop serial port. If someone else can load a map and you cannot then it has to be something in your setup.
Posted by: airtimehocutt
all this talk about computer problems is scary. how long is the warranty on a c-dale? all this extra mapping, can you really tell a difference? i have tooo much money invested in a 2 stroke to switch to a four stroke, but i'm really glad all these new four strokes are coming out. maybe after honda and yamaha come out with a racing quad i will be able to get a new one. i would hate to buy one now and yamaha come out with a killer yz426 racing quad. airtime
Posted by: smitty911
airtime,
Did you upgrade from win 3.1 to 3.5 cleanly? or win 95 to 98? or any other uupgrade. There are a few bugs in the system that are being worked on. Part of being cutting edge.
Jay,
Call optima back and have them send you 2.0, they should for fee.
Smitty
Posted by: DirtHawg
Same here.... as nut posted. Dealer went through 2 ECU's the third they were able to get working. Many frustrating hours later for him and me.
Posted by: cannondale27
Call optima and ask to talk to scooter he will help you figure out what is wrong.You do know that after two min.of inactivity you need to hit the start button again?Other than that all I can think of is you somehow lost the operating program (Hex code)and you will need to reinstall it.Is the green l.e.d. lit if not check your main fuse and reset.Scooter is the man as far as I have found if he cant help he will find someone who will.Oh yeah check battery.
Let us know what the solution was.
Posted by: cannondale27
The reason the ecm couldnt communicate is because the operating program wasnt in the ecm.If your dealer has the first version of dealer cal and he has a windows based computer he needs to get a floppydisk from cannondale called FreeDOS.
When he tried to install the stalling fix the program is able to remove the old operating program from your ecm but it cant put the new one back in.Even with the free dos some dealer computer systems wont work to do this.
The stalling fix is a operating program like windows.Maps are nothing more than programs like wordperfect.Without windows wordperfect wont run.
Posted by: cannondale27
I read your post again it sounds like nut and the first post have a different problem since the quad still runs.My experience has been with quad not running nothing was left.I bet scooter will help you.
Posted by: cannondale27
1.1 will install operating code when you boot up the computer you need to have freedos in the floppy disc cannondale will supply this free.I think you only need it if you are running windows 2000 or newer.
Posted by: cannondale27
I used dealer cal1.1 to install operating code many times.Maybe it only works in dealer cal.Normally when we get a new comp. all you have to do is match the variables and map.The new computer should have the correct operating code H302V03M.HEX.If you dont, print out bulletin SB02-008 from cannondale website then check your files in the same place your maps are stored it should have the icon with
H302V03M.HEX under the icon if it doesnt you obviously cant download the operating code.
Posted by: cannondale27
Jay is it possible for you to do the setup on the new ecm at your dealer.If it works at dealer then you should get a whole new user setup from optima free.You obviously need to delete all the old files and start over with a new cord\black box and the whole program they can easily afford to do this for you.We to got stuck with the old 1.1 version of dealer cal week later 2.0 comes out and they want $150 for us to upgrade.My boss refused I dont blame him.Scooter at optima seems like a great guy but the company he works for sure is a greedy bunch.
Posted by: cannondale27
If you give R.S. allyour variables and tell them what map you want they could program that all in before you even get the ecm.When you get it just plug it in your quad if it works then the problem has to be Optimum or it possibly could be the wiring ordiagnostic plug to the ecm everything else would be eliminated I will check the manual but I think there is some pin tests for the plug and wiring I will post later today.
Posted by: cannondale27
Jay did the new computer work?
Seems like quite a stir was created by this post.I am sure you saw Optimum post.Sparky is up and running sounds like he forgot to get code from Optimum to start his G.P. Control software.Since you have put maps in yours before with no problems I assume yours iscoded already.
Posted by: cannondale27
So when you got the new ecm you put it right in your quad and it wouldnt run?
Then you hooked it up to the bench rig and your GPdiagnostic no map was shown?
I wonder if the relay located by the ECM could be bad?
there is a bulletin on checking this.
Bulletin sb02-008 will help you check other things like ground, voltage etc.All these things need to be right also.
You dont have to apoligize about anything electrical problems can be a real headache for anyone.When Optimum sold a diagnostic kit to the public it should have envisioned problems whether they are software or hardware related most people dont have the time to figure out the problems.Dont give up your expierience will help someone in the future and then when this problem occures again it will be easily fixed.
Posted by: cannondale27
Just today I put a map in one quad did the throttle cal no problem.Brought the second quad in tried to install map as the bar got about 1/4 way across crash.The retrying checksum came up and all the values were erased.Had to start over and load all the values by hand which I was glad I wrote down then I had to do throttle cal again.Weird everything was done same and instead of being a ten minute job it took twenty and some embarassment because I couldnt explain to the guy what happened.According to manual this is caused by electrical interference it is supposed to retry automatically mine didnt.
Posted by: dubya1
There have been rare cases of this happening. I beleive it is listed on C'Dales website. I would have looked for you but there site seems to be down at the moment. I thought it had something to do with a "kickback voltage". Have your dealer check into it. I'm sure C'dale will take care of you. Good Luck................
Posted by: dubya1
The Service Bulletin is SBA01-11. Have your dealer look at this. Hope this helps.
