Pages: 1
Posted by: retro
01TRX300EX,
There is nothing better than the smell of race gas and amsoil coming out the exhaust of my R! LOUD! Have you ever heard a fourstroke with an aftermarket pipe? Go to a race, there is nothing more annoying than a piped 4 stroke hitting the rev limiter!
While I'm a big 2 stroke fan I think Cannondale should get a lot of credit for what they have done! I think the 400EX is the only MX worthy quad that I have seen on the track(other than a little under powered). I'm not sure about that EFI too, how easy are these things to work on?
ERIC
"GaryManillow, I was wondering, how are we morons for wanting 4-strokes? I personally have always preferred them over 2-strokes. All that hill climbing torque. Thats what I love so much about 4-strokes, I can lug hem around with out worrying about stalling. And they sure do come in handy when I am in the mud. Because then you have to lug it around so you don't fill your tires up with mud and lose all traction. Heck I have stalled my 300EX climbing out of a steep ditch, I can't imagine how many times I would on a 2-strokes. I don't have much against 2-strokes except they are loud and they smell bad. I think the 2-strokes are still very much alive, look at the mini market theres tons of them!"
Posted by: moto93
Need I say more?
Flame all you want... I can take it!
Posted by: moto93
If you don't work for them then you must be a dealer, right?
I bet the Honda CR450F will SMOKE any bike Cannondale comes out with... and probably for thousands less!
Posted by: AZRENEGADE
Hard to say. I know that they have defective spindles and I have been told that they are hard to start when hot, they have tranny problems and that you have to remove the gas tank to get at the spark plug. I hear that their bikes are regarded highly, but BIKES AIN'T QUADS!
Posted by: Newzboy
Now what would possibly be your motivation to take a swipe like that at a bunch of Americans just trying to provide the buying public with what they felt was a better product? Do you have specific news from the company onall these problems or is this just heresay? I could say that siince my neighbor found a mouse in his ex airbox that "I heard that HONDA airboxes are ratty"....See how stuff gets started? C'mon man, You're smarter than that!
Posted by: Newzboy
I would be careful how hard you rip on Cannondale. They are in this for the long haul and as I speak, their new bikes are being tested by the mags... They have made giant leaps in the last 18 months and I believe are there. Just dont act like you were on the bandwagon the whole time when cdale gets their due. BTW, I dont work for cdale. I just like to acknowledge it when someone goes to great effort to excel. Standing there tapping my toe saying "Well, is it perfect yet? Is it bullet proof yet?" just doesnt seem right to me. Give these guys a break. I think they've earned it.
Posted by: Newzboy
Manilow, Dont tell me....Now you're an expert on mental health, right? OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) is a disease associated with one's obsession for doing compulsive things which have no basis in reality. (You really should have looked it up). After reviewing your posts for the last 3 months, I find that you could actually be accussed of that very thing. How many posts have you written trying to pretend that the 2 stroke is alive and well (nevermind that lt250 r went out of production when Geoge W's Dad was president) I can appreciate the fact that you love your lt. It 's a great bike,but there's not going to be any more of them. The ECO freaks have outfoxed us in this one instance. What to do? Well if I am a potential manufacturer wondering where to put my millions in R & D, I'm not going to develope some great 2 stroke quad only to be caught with my pants down in 2 years and have to punt. People's jobs are at stake. I realize that to some its more important to blast around on the bike of choice than to be concerned with stupid stuff like land closures, ecologists with lots of money and thousands of manufacturing jobs, but guess what? Some companies are fighting fire with fire. The four stroke engine that cannondale has developed revs better than some 2 strokes and produces nearly as much HP/liter.(which is saying something for a 4 stroke). For the last time, I dont work for Cannondale or a Cannondale dealer, I just love what they are doing. Why is that so hard for you to get ahold of? And you know what keeps coming back to me? A lot of the stuff you love about 2 strokes (light weight and high revving motors)actually carries over with the Cannondale line. Why havent you ridden one? Same for you moto93 ... Have you ridden one? And another thing, moto 93, You are not doing Honda any favors by comparing Cannondales to NON-EXISTENT bikes that Honda will probably never produce. Compare them with what is out there now. (You may not want to do that)
Posted by: Newzboy
Moto 93, I may have been hastey in my last comment to you. At first I thought you were comparing a "cr450f engined" quad to a Cannondale quad, but now I think you were saying that the new Honda motocrosser is better than Cannondales bikes.(for thousands less)...It may surprise you that the x440s costs 300 less than the honda while the flagship x440 has GP controlled field tunable EFI, a cassette tranny and electric start and cost 700 more? Is it better than the Honda? I really dont know yet.... but you what else that means? It means that you don't know yet either, SO DONT BET YOUR HOUSE.
Posted by: Newzboy
And you told ME to lighten up? Maybe you better read your last post. Who just raised the ante? As far as blind and weak, Let me speak for myself and say that I have just as much right to own a four stroke as you do to own a 2 stroke. Heck my last ride was a built banshee....I just have more fun on a stump pulling 4 stroke! And what about "alive and well"? If you dont count the banshee, most of the 2 strokers are riding on bikes that havent been new since the 80's. Kind of reminds me of that movie with Goldie Hawn and Bruce Willis (Death Becomes Her) where these 2 ladies CANT die and they are eventually held together with superglue,nail polish and tape! C'mon guy! NNo one wants to take away your LT in this forum. YOU LIGHTEN up . I've noticed you've managed to P**s off just about everybody in every forum but the Artic cats. Save your venom for the folks who mean to do you in, not your riding compadres. And FIGHT? Who are you going to fight? Do you contribute to the Blue ribbon coalition to save riding areas? Do you give money for 2 stroke research? All you do is get ticked and cuss at everyone who doesnt feel EXACTLY as you do. How smart is that?
How about any of you other "morons" (manilow's words, not mine) Does any one else feel the way I do?
Posted by: otterbob
besides the 86lt250 that is
Posted by: GaryManilow
No, there just isn't the competition in Quads. Newzboy or whoever else is on here from Cannondale, your MX Bike has MANY problems and costs ALOT. That doesn't make me want to rush out and buy it. If you want I will list the known documented problems with your machine. The longer you have the machine to test, I'm sure you will fix the existing problems, but as it sits right now, the Cannondale MX400 is the laughing stock of the MX World.
Posted by: GaryManilow
Otterbob, please think before you make an attempt to speak. How much does a Cannondale cost? Now how much do you think I spent on my 86 LT250R? Now its becoming clear huh???? Newzboy, a company whether its in PA or Afghanistan is responsible for the reliabilty of its machines, and if you don't work for Cannondale, then you have obsessive compulsive disorder. Moto, you are right, a theoretic YZ426 ATV or CRF450 ATV would blow away the Cannondale and cost alot less, the bike is waay outclassed by the other machines in its segment, but its gets such adolation in the ATV form because what it is being compared to, the Raptor, 400EX come on! One thing every sport inclined ATVer owes to Cannondale is respect for their participation in the bastard child of the Racing comunity..ATV Racing.
Posted by: GaryManilow
Yeah Newzboy I know what obsessive compulsive disorder is, lighten the Fu@# up. There is no way in hell you do not work for Cannondale, so chill out. How is the 2stroke not "Alive and well"? I don't sing the praises of my LT as the bench mark of 2stroke performance, it is the ATV I happen to own, but by no means a representative of modern 2stroke technology and superiority. So you think if we all bend over for the Eco freaks and say "hey, its not my bike of choice, but if you will allow me to have this heavy, more expensive, harder to work on, less powerful bike, then OK." they will leave us alone? You open the door and they will run in. I KNOW that offroaders do not contibute a literal drop in the ocean of the worlds pollution, so don't feed me that line of BS. They are trying to impose regulations that will end what we want, not just regulate 2strokes out of existance, do you really think eco nazis are cool with us riding around the precious woods as long as we are on YZ426s? That is truly asinine. You are just as blind and weak as the other morons who buy 4strokes cuz "thats the way things are going." Things will go where we determine them and I will fight for what I want.
Posted by: GaryManilow
Newzboy, I know nobody here is trying to take away my LT, but thanks for that great reassurance. Of course you have a right to own a 4stroke, you have a right to own a pogo stick if you want, whats your point. If someone truly wants a 4stroke, then by all means buy one and have fun, but they shouldn't be forced on anyone because of bureaucratical BS and all you MORONS buying 4strokes because they are the "Way things are going" or because they are "the future" are blind weak morons! I don't care if I pissed someone off, I'm not here to please everyone and the problem is most of the folks "doing in" High performance ATVs are my "Riding Compadres." I don't get ticked or cuss at anyone here. Its not about someone disagreeing with me, everyone is truly entitled to form their own opinions, but when someone is trying to pass something off as something its not and blatently so, I will not follow everyone else and put my hands over my eyes and sing the praises of a machine that doesn't deserve it. "Does anyone else feel that way?" Come on man, you want to prove a point, then open the door and lets put our cards on the table, don't be so weak as to try to get other people on this forum, which you already stated don't like me, to make your point seem more valid. Explain to me why a 4stroke is a better performance oriented platform.
Posted by: GaryManilow
Alright, where to start. Cdale Racer, I wasn't talking about you specifically. "its the way things are going" and "Its the future" are coined terms used by folks who like to read brochures and spout what they have read like it really means something, the aluminium frame and EFI are not concerned, also if EFI was the way to go, the YZ426 would have it. TRX300ex, you are obviosly a kid, so I'll take it easy on ya. Please read what I wrote. I did not state people who own 4strokes are morons (although I don't see a reason any sport minded rider would prefer a 4stroke) I said people who buy 4strokes because "Thats the way things are going" ETC are morons. The torque thing, if you ride a 4stroke because you're worried about stalling a 2stroke, you are a very inexpierinced rider and would be better off on the tame 300ex. You ever seen the dirt bike GNCCs? They ride through the gnarliest terrain and what are they on... yep,Those stalling monsters. Ride a modern 2stroke before you form your opinion. They are every bit as "Easy" to ride as a 300ex, with one exception, they will rip your arms off when you want them too. So 2strokes are loud and they smell bad? If your 4stroke had a performance pipe similiar to a 2stroke they would emit about equal DBs, that is an ignorant statement. YZ426s or any of the other "performance"4strokes are actually louder than their 2stroke counterparts. "2strokes" are very much alive. Look past the bastard child ATV market and you will see your mistaken ideas. 2strokes dominate the MX bike industry and Snowmobile industry and Watercraft industry, the 2stroke world extends far beyond our specific discipline. As stated before the 2stroke is VERY much alive and will continue to be for a LONG time.
Posted by: GaryManilow
Chad you are an informed guy, but let me clarify a few things. All bikes no matter who makes them or when will always be exempt from EPA regulations beacuse they are closed course machines built on a limited basis. All MXers will be exempt from EPA Regs. No one will be able to ban the production or import of 2strokes, it would affect way too many companys and kill way too much revenue. There is technology already developed that just isn't being used right now, that makes 2strokes burn cleaner then the current "High Performance" 4strokes. If and when tighter EPA regs are put in place, so will the clean 2stroke technology. YES you can buy a new 2stroke bike ETC in California. The REGULATIONS not ban, they have on 2strokes simply limit where you can ride a 2stroke manufactured after 1997. Basically all it is, is limiting when you can ride your machine IE not during the hottest months of the summer in certain counties, when no one rides anyway. In California you can ride a 2002 Banshee at every public riding area when its not 115 degrees. Sleds, I am a pretty big Snowmobiler, so I am pretty informed on this subject. No the manus aren't working a 4stroke sport sleds, AC, Polaris and Ski-doo have 4stroke sleds out, but they are far from sport machines! The AC 4stroke makes less HP then the Z440 fan cooled kid sled and is the heaviest sled they have ever made, they are not performance sleds. 4strokes will never be accepted by the snowmobile industry, they know what modern 2strokes are like. In the future when the EPA regs come in, as I stated before, they will just employ the clean burning technology. So please evryone inform yourself before you go telling everyone what the future is. The 2stroke aint going anywhere!
Posted by: GaryManilow
TRX300EX How exactly do I sound like a kid? Anyways Superiour woods riding? GNCC guys on 2strokes, thats their problem? So Racers who make a living winning races all handicap themselves by putting themselves on inferior machines and thats their problem? Like I said a properly set up 2stroke is faster in the woods then the fastest of the 4strokes, heavy bikes don't equal fast in the woods. A good 2stroke powerplant makes easy enough to ride power for a fairly experienced pilot to fly through the woods. Noise, so you are saying stock huh? So a Stock Banshee is loud to you? So what exactly consist of "Going" 4stroke? Having 1 or possibly 2 models available in a large market means it is "going" that way? There is one 4stroke model available in the watercraft industry from each manu along with Honda and guess what....They make less HP and weigh alot more than their 2stroke counterparts. So Honda has how many 4stroke MXers? 3... are you sure there...Honda makes ONE 4stroke MXer and they make FOUR 2stroke MXers, Yamaha makes TWO 4stroke MXers and FOUR 2stroke MXers. Kawasaki may very well be developing A Singular 4stroke MXer which will be sold along side their NINE 2stroke bikes. Educate yourself partner.
Posted by: GaryManilow
haha TRX300EX, your alright with me, uninformed as you may be. Look at the CRF150 and 230 again please. They are kids bikes meant to compete with the TTR line from Yamaha.If they were Race machines they would have the "R" designation after the cc displacement. Boat motors, no one has any real power to weight issues with a boat motor, so manus can gain a sympathetic edge with the greenies without losing money by swwitching things such as weed wackers, snowblowers,boat motors ETC to 4stroke, that pretty much has no bearing on this conversation. OK a 4stroke makes a better beginner bike, that wasn't my point. Point is a 2stroke in the hands of a skilled rider will make a faster woods machine, a faster MX machine and a faster Dune machine. I/we are talking 4 VS 2stroke design, and that icludes every aspect of their application, whether that be on 2 or 4 wheels. TRX how do you know I'm not 14 like you, I do always sound like a kid don't I?
Posted by: GaryManilow
Its the CRF450R and yes the the CRF150 and 230 are replacements for the XR kids bikes. Like I said take a couple minutes and inform yourself. Sorry to hear about your ride spot.
Posted by: 01TRX300EX
GaryManillow, I was wondering, how are we morons for wanting 4-strokes? I personally have always preferred them over 2-strokes. All that hill climbing torque. Thats what I love so much about 4-strokes, I can lug hem around with out worrying about stalling. And they sure do come in handy when I am in the mud. Because then you have to lug it around so you don't fill your tires up with mud and lose all traction. Heck I have stalled my 300EX climbing out of a steep ditch, I can't imagine how many times I would on a 2-strokes. I don't have much against 2-strokes except they are loud and they smell bad. I think the 2-strokes are still very much alive, look at the mini market theres tons of them!
Posted by: 01TRX300EX
OK where do I start... I have been riding quads since I was 3 years old and being 14 now that makes 11 years. So I am hardly inexperienced. And Gary, you act more like a kid then anyone else on here. Plus I didn't buy a 4-stroke because "thats the way things are going". I bought it for the pure torque that you get from them, and their superior woods riding. Even if I was to want a 2-stroke where would I get one? The Banshee being the only one made right now (besides the mini's). They arent exactly known for their woods riding abilities. Now if I was in the dunes the Banshee may have been first on my list, MAYBE. In case you didn't read it, I was in the MUD trying to climb out of a STEEP DITCH when I stalled, I don't stall just riding through the woods. And yes I know that the GNCC people ride 2-strokes, but thats there problem. As for the sound, I am comparing STOCK quads here, not quads with performance exhausts. And I wasn't talking about other markets, I was talking about ATV markets, this being an ATV forum. In case you haven't noticed watercraft are slowly going 4-stroke also. And also the MX bikes are going 4-stroke. Honda now has 3 4-stroke MX bikes Yamaha has 2 I think and Kawasaki is coming out with one. Not to mention that Cannondale also has a 4-stroke.
Retro: Its your OPINION that they smell good just like it's my OPINION that they smell like crap. Read above for the noise thing.
Posted by: 01TRX300EX
Gary, wrong again, Honda is making 3 MXers. The 450, 230 and 150. Check the Honda website go to press then scroll down. It says it right there. The 230 is in the 150 class the 150 is in the 80cc class. In case you haven't noticed I never said that 4-strokes had as much power as 2-strokes, I know they don't. Not cc for cc anyways. Also Yamaha and Honda and probably others are making 4-stroke boat motors. Now the GNCC part, you see how GNCC riders are professionals. Well say you take a beginner and put him on a 4-stroke through the woods then put him on a 2-stroke through the woods, which do you think he will do better on? Probably the 4-stroke. Because you don't have to slip the clutch as much. I also noticed that you keep saying that the motorcycle riders in GNCC do this and that. I am not talking about dirtbikes, I am talking about ATV's. And, I believe that just about covers it. But hay if you want to keep disputing I am always up for it, we kids have a lot of energy for this stuff unlike you old guys. Ok I was just joking there, but I am always up for a good dispute, and I am very persistant. And it also seems that we will never agree, me being a 4-stroke die-hard and you the 2-stroke die-hard. We are both thick headed in a sense.
Posted by: 01TRX300EX
Does the CR450F have an R after it? No. And its still an MX machine. Where does it say that they are kids bikes? The 150 would be a MX dirtbike for kids but not a kids type bike like the XR80 or something. Which is in the 80cc class. The 230 is most likely meant for the 150 class. OK a 250R in the woods may be faster, but I don't think a Banshee would be. From what I hear (and see) the 400EX is superior in the woods. Along with the Raptor. When did I say you were 14? I said you acted like a kid sometimes. I probably said that out of anger anyways, my d*mn county bought the land where I ride and closed it off, and now all I have is a little field. So between that and other bad things I probably took it out on you, I am sorry for that, but it doesn't change my view on 4-strokes I will always think they are better just like you will always think 2-strokes are better. OK I guess thats all I have to say....for now.
Posted by: 01TRX300EX
OK I see what you are talking about. Sorry I must have mis read it, sorry to have wasted your time. Although I still don't like 2-strokes, I know that if they are banned the tree hugger's will think they can take ATV's all together and ban them. Therefore just having them ban 2-strokes will start a chain reaction. As for the trail thing, yeah it sucks. I almost went ahead and tore down the signs. But I know it would come back to haunt me in someway. The trails started going about 6 months ago when they closed down one of my trails. I lived through that but now I am down to nothing, and I don't think they will listen to a 14 year old kid. They would probably say,"you shouldn't be riding anyways." ok anyways sorry for wasting your time, although I havent had a dispute like that in months.
Posted by: CdaleRacer
So what if a CR450F or a YZ426 could smoke any Cannondale. I dont care about the bikes, I ride a quad. Dont you? Where is the CR450F quad? You guys got a Rincon or what ever its called. Where is the YZ426? You'll have to go borrow Timmy's or Kory's, or build your own for around 20g's. Then from what I understand you want be able to race it according to new AMA rules in 2003. Anyway, dont get me wrong I like anything with 4-wheels I just like some better than others and when a company like Cannondale does the things they have done for us ATVers everyone should take note. The Moto 440 will change everyones mind about bashing C-Dale quads I think. Heck the FX and Cannibal has except for a few.
Posted by: CdaleRacer
I think I've said those things before "its the way things are going" and "its the future" meaning aluminum frame and EFI on "its the future" more than meaning 4 vs 2 but anyway think about it. If these things aren't true then where is the new 250R, they made the EX. Where is the new LT250R, they built the 400 4-stroke. Where is the new Yamaha 2-stroke, they made the Raptor. Where is the new Kawasaki KX250 quad, from what I understand it isn't going to happen, instead the new quad will be a 4-stroke. It may be because not enough people are fighting for them like you are. If thats the case do you see my point, maybe more people than you think want something differently than you do. If this isnt the case, well... do you see my point, no matter how much or how many people fight for new 2-stokes it just dosent look like its going to happen, so there you go. Maybe it will but shure dosen't look like it. Ever hear the saying you dont always get what you want. I want a 1954 Fender Strat, but I somehow know I'll never get one.
Posted by: chadinMI
I'm not here too ruffle any 2 stroke riders feathers (they're my choice when it comes to bikes) but I read somewhere that Honda has made the comment that the new 2002 CR250 2 stroke motor was the last new 2 stroke motor they will design from the ground up, when this motor has no more possible small improvements possible without a total redesign the Honda 2 stroke 250 motor will be burried for good. I think you all know how serious Honda is with ultra low emmision cars, outboard motors, lawnmowers, etc..... Hell, I'm not even sure if you can buy any new 2 stroke bike, quad, outboard motor.... in California unless it's strickly for closed course competition? You guys are probably up on all the politics better than me, but isn't there already legislation in the works by some of our fine? congressman and senators to ban the manufacturing and importation of 2 strokes in America by a certain year, something like 2010 or 2015? I know that sounds like a long ways away but it's not. I know all the snowmobile manufacturers either have 4 stroke sport sleds in the works or are already out. I know Arctic cat is working very hard with suzuki to develop 4 stroke technology for sleds. I'll gaurantee you all that there will not be any new 2 stroke quads designed. Besides Polaris' workhorse 2 strokes think of the last two 2 strokes designed - banshee and blaster, almost 15 years ago! I hate to say this to all of us two stroke supporters but, the two strokes days are numbered no matter how much of a fight we put up, the government always ends doing what it pleases some way or another. I've seen my gun rights eroded in the last ten years no matter how much money i've given. The democrats are out to take all the fun away in America.
