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Posted by: sirmill
THat Rhino is a pretty bad A$$ machine, except that it's a Grizzly. Kawi needs to step up and build a competitor based on the BF750 or P-700 chassis. Alot of the work is already done. What a machine that would be....
Posted by: sirmill
Obviously, some people are pushing the machine past it's speed and handling threshold. I used to have an odyssey a few years back, and they had some hand straps so that if you rolled it, you wouldn't put out your hand instinctively and break it. It was an issue then, and it is still an issue now. It just seems to include legs now too. YOu couldn't put out your leg on the odyssey because of the frame rails. Why can't they put some sort of little door down by your legs, and some straps for your hands? How much does the steering wheel turn? Would the hand straps even be a possibility? Just a thought.
Posted by: cc1999
But drop the Grizz CDI in the Rhino and its a 50MPH utility
Posted by: cc1999
I would buy a pilot style BF 750 in a heat beat.
Posted by: Hayashi
I know a dealer guy who just prepped a Rhino and was test riding for the first time. He went around a corner too fast and got flipped over. When that happened he stuck his leg out instinctly and got crunched by the Rhino, breaking his leg and the bone was picercing out through the skin. Shorter wheelbase, more top heavy and faster than Mule. Not a good cornering machine.
Posted by: Jeffro31
Kawasaki may just not be interested in building a play side by side right now , the mule is a great machine and for its purpose it will stomp a rhino , it is a work machine , have you noticed that on construction sites you never see any rhinos , they are almost always mules because the kawie will work the rhino to there grave and the kawie is definitely easier to get in and out off and have super nice confortable seat for working. These machine are designed to compete in any way .
Posted by: Jeffro31
The 610 is not designed to compete with the Rhino , the 610 has a 401cc engine , the have just upgraded the 550 mule with a little more power and a new look.
Posted by: Ross650
Howdy, I have a Rhino that tops out at 51 mph checked with a gps. I have jetted it and added the BlackRhino CDI. I am also running 27" Mudlites. Without the CDI top speed was 41.
Posted by: maddog56
You have to remember that the mule was never intended as a recreational machine. It was made primarily for work applications and moving people and gear through mild terrain.
Posted by: maddog56
But the new 3010 trans is different. Nothing like taking utility vehicles and making them into people movers. Wait, didnt they already do that with crew cab 1/2 ton trucks???
Cool idea though, now kawi just needs a decent engine to push the mule line around.
Posted by: maddog56
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Originally posted by: bad02shee
The motors arent the problem they are governed down to only run 25mph and only go to like 3600 rpm. I work at a dealer i know this.
The motors are governed, but I had removed the governor on my 4x4 mule. The issue isnt the top speed as much as the complete lack of low end power. They just dont have enough umph to drag their heavy chassis around, let alone off road.
Posted by: maddog56
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Originally posted by: BUDXXX
Another problem is that there is no restraint to keep the occupants inside the vehicle, and they naturally want to step out of it when they biff.... maybe if they had a net or something to keep the occupants in, that might solve some injury potential....
My mule had seatbelts...
Posted by: blackballed
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Originally posted by: Hayashi
I know a dealer guy who just prepped a Rhino and was test riding for the first time. He went around a corner too fast and got flipped over. When that happened he stuck his leg out instinctly and got crunched by the Rhino, breaking his leg and the bone was picercing out through the skin. Shorter wheelbase, more top heavy and faster than Mule. Not a good cornering machine.
It corners just fine...she just can't compensate for the dumbasses who may be driving her! (although we will be setting these things up to do much better for race situations.)
Posted by: blackballed
I certainly don't mean to add insult to injury by bringing up the obvious fact that being a dumbass at a given point in time (which I have done myself on this machine) is the beginning and end of these injury stories. My point is that the cornering ability of these machines has absolutely nothing to do with any of these "accidents" (some even resulting in the loss of limb) that have happened. When you start describing incidents and then questioning the machine's role in same.....I think you do a disservice to those same injured people who would most certainly tell you the story straight and would want the word to get out in terms of the driver never putting himself into that situation in the first place.
Posted by: blackballed
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Originally posted by: sirmill
. It was an issue then, and it is still an issue now. It just seems to include legs now too. Why can't they put some sort of little door down by your legs, and some straps for your hands? Just a thought.
I don't know how the legal climate has changed in all those years between then and now, nor what the reasoning is today....but you are right; people are getting hurt and unfortunately being the poster children for what can happen (and again, you really have to thank these guys for coming out onto the web and telling their stories...or there would be no way in heck that the word would ever be getting out). Black Rhino Performance is working on the best design I've seen to date for the money (not obtrusive pysically nor asthetically plus functional) and a few others are FINALLY seeing that there is a little money to be made here. I'm just of the opinion that many of these designs are going a bit overboard as to what need be accomplished for a knee-jerk instinctive reaction and that the entire 'look' of the rig sometimes suffers.
Posted by: blackballed
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Originally posted by: cc1999
But drop the Grizz CDI in the Rhino and its a 50MPH utility
Drop a BRP cdi in and she might go faster than that (not to mention pushing more mid-range power)....with the added bonus that your speedometer now works to prove it!
Posted by: blackballed
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Originally posted by: BUDXXX
Just this last weekend I was witness to a RHino rolling over and the passenger put his leg out and received a compund fracture,...bone sticking out of the skin.........and then a three AM helocopter ride to the hospital.....One of the problems I saw was the passenger and driver, could not shift their weight around enough to allow the machine to get thru the trail safely. On a quad, you can lean way over, even off the machine, to compensate for a rut, or off camber section of rode..... Therefore when they got to the difficult trail sections, they pretty much had to turn around
If these guys are "turning around" because they can't compensate for a rut (we've found that the slightly larger wheel base is actually a benefit...for those who can actually DRIVE (lol)) or off-camber situation (see previous comment)...did they forget their kahunas at the house?
"....Another problem is that there is no restraint to keep the occupants inside the vehicle, and they naturally want to step out of it when they biff.... maybe if they had a net or something to keep the occupants in, that might solve some injury potential...."
Problem already solved by aftermarket vendors (if you don't have any more to spend than the cost of this machine...my suggestion is to not buy one. I have several thousand more into mine and am not even close to getting it the way we want it./STRONG>
"....Another problem is that on bumpy trails or trails with a lot of rocks or whatever, the thing pitches around so much, the occupants kept banging thier heads on the roll bar..."
I'm sorry, but I have never worried about hitting my head on anything (I wear a "helmet" if I do) and the only time anybody ever hit the rollbar was flying over a jump with an unbuckled passenger (as alluded to before, we wear helmetsin this part and he darn well buckled that belt in the blink of an eye).
"....yeah, they are a little better at that (hauling cargo), than my P700!BUt a serious trail machine, not!"
(lol)....well, I set you straight on all the other points....I'll just give you this one and keep having the time of our lives.I wouldn't go back to quads if you traded me the hottest model out there and 5 grand to accessorize it. These things will go most anywhere you point them with MORE THAN ADEQUATE performance and COMFORT. Throw in your wife or buddy beside you?....the experience just can't be matched by trying to push a handlebar around; while constantly being hunched over and tense as a devil doing it.
Just my opinion.
Posted by: blackballed
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Originally posted by: BUDXXX
Anyway, the Rhino's and such, seem like they have a useful niche, and like everything there are some good and bad qualities, pro's and con's, likes and dislikes. Not everybody is going to want one, or a quad, or a bike....
Agreed...it just amazes me how many in the orv community have already given it the short stick...many without taking her out where any fair comparison or even legitimate evaluation can be made (many guys don't want to even think about occasionally bringing their significant others anywhere.....which is O.K.; as I've witnessed how many of them treat these ladies when they do..
Posted by: blackballed
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Originally posted by: BUDXXX
Blackballed- Glad to see you've got it all figured out! And I can see how "pushing the handlebars around" might be too difficult for some people. Tell me, do you carry your golf clubs in there too...?
Not a matter of being dificult, bud.....just a matter of actually relaxing as you watch the scenery drift by (which is just not possible on a quad; no matter which way you look at it). Did I forget to mention that we do all of this while partaking of our favorite beverage and puffing a stogie?
By the way, I tend to carry just about anything we want to .....the only difference being.......we don't strap it on like we're straddling a camel!
Posted by: blackballed
Again, I felt a little remorse for describing as such, those helpful enough to relate their sometimes life-changing experiences (one guy, at least, has lost his foot)....yet, as you say, these things don't happen on their own and we've witnessed a lot of people through the establishment of your site that are the proof. Certainly their stories have given me cause to pause as compared to the first day I jumped into her....plus the added benefit of a few quick ancedotes for those driving my machine for the first time, as well.
Posted by: blackballed
Not sure why, Aaron...but those pics aren't downloading very well for me. Is this "new look" any different than what is being seen on the showroom floor now with the old 500 engine in it? (imo) They have got to somehow get in there and redesign that cab so that you at least feel comfortable sitting in it. Keep the bench option for those who love golf carts and hauling the kids (maybe even make a seat that is as plush as 99% of the golf carts out there)....but don't throw a 700 V-Twin in and make people sit straight up on a board....looking like when they first took drivers ed.
Posted by: blackballed
Aaron,
I'm in total agreement with above and have never owned a Ranger, myself. Had the Fuji 500 (non-HO) engine in my Sportsman and frankly?.....felt that it was not only dead-on reliable...but moved even that overweight machine around just as fast and as well as any quad really needed to be (sure, I revved her out a few times in low on some steep inclines....but how much faster did I really need to be going in that situation anyways?).
Give me the same kind of comfort level in this IRS Ranger that I feel in a Rhino and maybe a little more styling on the outside....I'm buying "American" all day long. Yet Polaris's situation/strategy in a down economy (in the middle of a war) is somewhat understandable. Keep regurgitating the Sportsman and Ranger to keep your developmental costs low and your economies of scale high; not to mention making certain there is the kind of year-to-year uniformity demanded in any machines provided to the military. It's not like either of these models are 'dogs' by any means and they have finally gotten the parts for both these machines down to a decent price on 'pure volume alone' over the years (every manufacturer's dream).
You go down into farm country here in Southwest Michigan?....these folks are rding just about nothing but and loving it.
Posted by: polaris5610
It's not out yet but Polaris has a Ranger XP it has a 700EFI powerplant with IRS, and new looks.
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3 (red)
Posted by: polaris5610
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Originally posted by: blackballed
Not sure why, Aaron...but those pics aren't downloading very well for me. Is this "new look" any different than what is being seen on the showroom floor now with the old 500 engine in it? (imo) They have <EM>got </EM>to somehow get in there and redesign that cab so that you at least feel comfortable <EM>sitting</EM> in it. Keep the bench option for those who love golf carts and hauling the kids (maybe even make a seat that is as plush as 99% of the golf carts out there)....but don't throw a 700 V-Twin in and make people sit straight up on a board....looking like when they first took drivers ed.
Same look as the 05 500 Ranger yes, but with the Sportsman MV color. I did own a 02 Ranger 500 and liked it a lot, but couldn't use if for were I ride that much because of its HUGE size. Other than that a very powerful UTV for its size and displacement. Would do around 50 MPH at times (usally 45 MPH was max) with the limiter unhooked. I never had any problems with the ergo's of the the machine, keep in mind I had nothing to compare it to either. Over all I liked the Ranger's carring abilty, and being able to ride with others, but it's size was just to much for my area of riding. However you can't get around that and still call it a Ranger...
Posted by: BUDXXX
Just this last weekend I was witness to a RHino rolling over and the passenger put his leg out and received a compund fracture,...bone sticking out of the skin.........and then a three AM helocopter ride to the hospital.....
One of the problems I saw was the passenger and driver, could not shift their weight around enough to allow the machine to get thru the trail safely. On a quad, you can lean way over, even off the machine, to compensate for a rut, or off camber section of rode..... Therefore when they got to the difficult trail sections, they pretty much had to turn around.....cause they couldn't get the machine up safely....bummer!
Another problem is that there is no restraint to keep the occupants inside the vehicle, and they naturally want to step out of it when they biff.... maybe if they had a net or something to keep the occupants in, that might solve some injury potential....
Another problem is that on bumpy trails or trails with a lot of rocks or whatever, the thing pitches around so much, the occupants kept banging thier heads on the roll bar....I didn't like that, at all.
But for hauling propane bottles downrange, and transporting the cooler full of stuff around, or carrying the rifles, yeah, they are a little better at that, than my P700!
BUt a serious trail machine, not!
Posted by: BUDXXX
Blackballed- Glad to see you've got it all figured out! And I can see how "pushing the handlebars around" might be too difficult for some people. Tell me, do you carry your golf clubs in there too...?
Posted by: BUDXXX
seatbelts seem like a good idea, maybe some sort or device to keep you from wanting to put your leg out..too...I still catch myself sticking that damn leg out on the quad.....bad leg, bad leg...!
Yeah like the other day when I had to squeze thru a narrow gap in some rock, that damn leg stuck itself out there,....and it's a good thing I was going really slow.....
Anyway, the Rhino's and such, seem like they have a useful niche, and like everything there are some good and bad qualities, pro's and con's, likes and dislikes. Not everybody is going to want one, or a quad, or a bike.....
Another thing, I was sort of surprised to see just how big the Rhino actually is....it's a pretty large machine....
Posted by: BUDXXX
Pilot, how about a pilot on steroids. Like a 700+ cc long suspension travel, mid or rear engine ala sandrail style. Oh yeah, I'd buy one of those....
I'v been kind looking into building something like a m/c powered mini sand rail, but if I could buy one....
Posted by: WheelCow
I don't see how they can avoid building a competitor for the Rhino. I look at the available machines and come to the conclusion that it makes little sense to buy anything other than the Rhino...unless, you need a machine exclusively for work...but even then the Rhino will serve very well as a work machine. The other machines really aren't much fun out on the trails. So...I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that Kawasaki and others are working on a new side-by-side at this very moment.
Moo,
WheelCow
Posted by: RedGoblin
Although at first glance, that's the way it seems. However, the Mule is definitely not a true competitor to the Rhino by any means at all except maybe hauling capabilities. I heard rumors way back in early summer that Kawasaki planned to either renovate their Mules or build a totally new 4x4 side-by-side lineup from scratch that would supposedly "obsolete" the Rhino and Ranger. Guess not.
Posted by: bad02shee
they did come out with a new mule for 05 to compete with the rhino but it is not as fast.
mule 610
Posted by: bad02shee
The motors arent the problem they are governed down to only run 25mph and only go to like 3600 rpm. I work at a dealer i know this.
Posted by: Cuda440
Hey RedGoblin, Cards are looking Good Tonight!
Posted by: Daranello75
I'd like to see someting like the Honda Pilot come back, with Brute power!!!!
Posted by: BigSix
they have the "mule" or whatever if i am correct....and it seems they are happy with it for now..it does what its intended to do pretty well....although it would be sweet to see a more aggressively styled..750 powered..."bigger" 4x4 side by side wouldnt it?
Posted by: 2005BF750
I looked hard at those side-by-sides before buying my Brute. I had a bad experience with Yamaha and therefor won't buy their products, the Ranger is a Polaris, nuff said? the Mule isn't really an offroad vehicle, I drove one offroad and it was rough, but it did good with 4wd. What I want in a side-by-side is a big engine, 700 or more cc's, more top speed, the fast one only goes about 45MPH, and cool looks, they all have that "sorta quad", "sorta truck" ugly look. give it a bigger engine, make it go 70MPH with rugged good looks and I'll buy it.
Posted by: 2005BF750
lmao! I was thinking the same thing
Posted by: PrairieDude
Does anyone know if Kawasaki plans on making a competitor for the Yamaha Rhino?
Posted by: PrairieDude
The Rhino is really nice because the wheel base matches those of a regular ATV. Makes it easier to stay in the ATV trail. The Mule is a bit wider. The Rhine bucket seats are nice too. I just think Kawasaki can come up with something to give it some competition.
Posted by: PrairieDude
I agree, that is why I am waiting on Kawasaki. I drove the Rhino and like it alot. It has some stalling issues when going up hill, and the floor boards need to be reinforced with skid plats or something to protect the driver. As it is, a stick can poke thru the floor boards and impale you, however, I heard yamaha fixed this for 2005. I am just a Kawasaki guy so I will wait.
Posted by: PrairieDude
Is the Kawasaki Mule 610 4x4 similar in wheel width to the Rhino? It looks like the same size. But not as powerful: 400cc
Posted by: Skid007
From what i'm led to believe, they are governed at 25mph/40kph because if they go any faster they must conform to a whole new set of saftey standards and kawasaki are not willing to do this as it is primarily a work machine. Here in Australia we are even making them go slower on some sites, as most have a limit of 20kph.
