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Posted by: RacewayATV
of course give us a call on Monday and we will work it out, but it does sound very weird to me because kazuma has been making that motor for a long time now I have never had much trouble with them at all! But lets see what we can do to fix it!
Raceway ATV
Posted by: RacewayATV
We will take care of it!
Posted by: RacewayATV
Yes we do.
Posted by: RacewayATV
If you give me a call tomorrow I would be happy to go over all of this with you! You are pretty much on point!
Posted by: RacewayATV
Give us a call we will take care of it!
Posted by: Jimi
"If this were a Honda" Don't you think that Honda,and all the other large manufactures have issues also? I worked at a Cadillac dealer,and they were warrantying engines in $60,000.00 car's,And that is a $700.00 entry level atv,at least you bought it from a company that is standing behind it.
Posted by: reefskinner
My kids have a 90 Mini Falcon that has a problem. My Daughter was riding it this weekend and turned it off. When she tried to ride it again later, it would not start. I figured that she must have flooded it, so I replaced the plug and still no start. We were away from home when all of this happened, so I loaded it up and decided I would look into it at home. We got home today and I checked a few things out. First it is getting spark at the plug. Second it is full of fresh gas. I even drained the bowl to make sure the needle was allowing the bowl to fill. I noticed that when I cranked it over there is a little pop through the carb. It does not try to start at all. I pulled the plug and cranked it with my finger over the hole and it won't push my finger off the hole. I decided to check the valves and see if one is hanging open a little bit and not allowing it to build up compression. I pulled the site cover off the left case and brought it up to TDC. I then pulled the two valve adjuster covers and found both valves to be very very loose. I went ahead and adjusted them both down, but left them both a little on the loose side just to make sure one wasn't hanging open. At this point, I just wanted to see if I could get it to start. I installed the plug and all the covers and once again tried to start it. No luck at all. I then grabbed my timing light and checked it while I cranked. The ignition timing looks to be fine. I am thinking that the timing chain has jumped or something has gone south in the motor. This thing has maybe 10 hours on it. My kids are very timid on it, it has not been abused. I spent hours preping this when I bought it and it was never started with the shipping oil in it.
Sorry for the long post, but wanted to be clear enough that someone may have an idea for me. Has anyone else had a similar problem like this? I really would hate to have to pull this motor and ship it to Raceway.
Thanks in advance,
Shawn
Posted by: reefskinner
It has air, fuel and spark. I am pretty certain that it is a mechanical problem.
Has anyone had a warranty claim with one of these engines?
Thanks,
Shawn
Posted by: reefskinner
Well, I have spoken with John at Raceway and he has been a big help. I hope we can get this thing going again soon.
Posted by: reefskinner
Jason,
I have not yet got it going. I spoke with John at Raceway, and he is indeed sending me a new head. I hope it takes care of the problem. I will keep you informed.
Shawn
Posted by: reefskinner
Well, I got it running again today. Raceway sent me a new head awhile back, but I just got the time to swap it out. The Exhaust Valve Seat had come out of the head, holding the valve open and jammed the Intake Valve as well. I sure hope the new head is better than the last one. All in all it wasn't to bad to change as long as you have some mechanical ability it won't be tough. I must admit though, I was a little pissed off to have to be doing it on my vacation while it is near 100° in the garage. Raceway has been more than helpful, but there is a little part of me that says "if this were a Honda......" But the kids are happy and I did save a bunch of money.
Shawn
Posted by: reefskinner
Well, Cylinder Head number two has just gone south. Same problem as the first. The exhaust valve seat has come loose and worked its way out. I guess I will be calling Raceway again on Monday. They have been AWESOME to deal with, but I must admit this is getting a little old. I did pull the head off in record time though. I am convinced that there is a manufacturing flaw. I think the press fit is not correct and once the engine gets warm enough the seat begins to fall out. My daughter was riding it when it quit and she is very timid to say the least.
Shawn
Posted by: reefskinner
John, I hope this is some crazy isolated case. It did exactly the same thing that it did the first time. Ran fine, turned it off and it would not start again. First thing I did was check the valve lash and found them both to be way loose, just like last time. I pulled the head and saw that the exhaust seat had come out of the head just like the original head. On a positive note, the second head lasted twice as long as the first one did.
Shawn
Posted by: reefskinner
Glad to hear yours looks to be okay. Mine had the first one fail at around 10 hours. The second one went nearly twice as long as the first did. They both failed the same, with the exhaust seat dropping out of the head. I am hoping third time is a charm for me.
Shawn
Posted by: reefskinner
I wouldn't be to quick to tear that engine down. It may not even be broken in yet. If you do tear it down, I would recommend that you try to match up some OEM Honda stem seals. I would bet they are better than the Chinese copies. All other parts, I would go with Raceway. As you can see, John is on top of these quads and has already chimed in above to let you know that Raceway has the parts. There service is unmatched!
Shawn
B.T.W. I have mine running again. It is purring like a kitten. I installed the new head, used assy. lube on the new cam assy and adjusted the valve to .003". I started it up and let it run for about 8 minutes at a high idle to break in the new cam. I adjusted the valves again and changed the oil. My kids went for a ride and it sounds great. Seems to be running the best it ever has. Much crisper response and a smoother idle.
Posted by: reefskinner
Haven't been on here in a while, been busy. My kids 90 seems to be okay for now. They haven't ridden it much, so time will tell.
Injuhneer,
Yes, I would try to match them up with Honda CT parts. I am pretty certain they will interchange with one another.
bowhun2r,
Glad you got it running again. Bummer on the exhaust pipe.
Posted by: Beachernaut
Shawn,
Did you get the quad running again?
Please let me know. My son's Falcon is doing the exact same thing with about the same amount of hours. My troubleshooting is the same as your with the exception of checking timing. I don't currently have a way to check it.
It's sitting in the garage right now, and I have no idea what's causing it.
Jason
Posted by: AFROracing
the 90cc have head issues, I took mine back to the dealer when it died on me, it had no compression.. ie wouldn't push my fingrer off the plug whole..
it's an issue that they are aware of and they should replace at no problem...
Posted by: AFROracing
glad to hear you got er going... just remember when your in the garage sweatin your a off, "it's all for the kiddio's..... And they better ride it..." LOL
Posted by: AFROracing
you'll have to make sure you keep it in time.. Look at the stator cover, it's the cover on the side of the motor same side as the sprockets. You'll see a small chrome screw about the size of a nickel. Take that screw out and you should see a few marks on the stator. Make sure the piston in at dead top center, and the marks should be visable thru that hole. Then with that mark visable look at the cam sprocket there should be a mark at the 12 oclock position. When both marks are lined up, grab the rocker arms and they should have play to them.. Now take the bolts off the cam sprocket. I always tie the chain up so it won't fall into the motor...
later,
Chad
Posted by: AFROracing
Quote
Originally posted by: bowhun2r
ok, so after a 4 hour experience this is what I've learned:
So everyone is happy once again...until......
Not more than 5 hours running time I started to hear a rattler. I checked all my work and I found a new issue. The exhaust pipe is cracked right where the smaller pipe goes into the muffler. It's cracked all the way around and essentially is useless. Pretty loud from the engine and the rattles.
So, John any chance I can get a new tail pipe assembly? This will obviously be much easier installation, but until I can get one I asked the boys to not ride it. Pretty darn loud and I don't want to cause any friction with the neighbors.
Long post, but it was a long job.
Hollar at me if you still need a pipe I have my boys I pulled off maybe as 1/2 hour ride time on it, our 1st pipe crack just like yours. I put a after market on after getting the replacement pipe under warranty.
Posted by: AFROracing
I have a big gun from a TRX90 on ours, I had to cut it down and reweld to make it shorter.. I can get them for around $245 plus shipping.
I have found another place that offers another for Kazuma's...
http://www.westcoastquads.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=256&zenid=6a93a0d8b81a7c61bc4f5ffa06f2a507
Posted by: AFROracing
Oh yeah,
it's now got a 107c shifter motor, 4 speed auto clutch, K&N filter, 2"wheel spacers front and rear, converted front brakes to lever action (seperated it from the rear pedal)
This sucker flies in 4th gear... I would say that if I leave it in 2nd gear it's about the same as the stock motor, but now it has 2 more to grab...
He broke the rear brake mechanism off this past weekend at the race, I think it bottomed out over the whoops and the flange that holds the rear brake master cylinder to the frame broke off, gotta get to welding it back!! Gonna look at relocating the master cylinder cuz if you squeesh the suspension all the way down the top of the cylinder hits the frame under the seat...
Posted by: 9kids
It takes three basic things for an engine to run Fuel, Fire, and Timing. If you have spark then try taking the air cleaner off, make sure the choke is off, open the throttle all the way and spray some starter fluid in the carb. Then close the throttle, put the choke on and crank it. If it won&39;t fire on starter fluid then it may be the timing or something much worse like a busted piston or bent valve. If it does fire on the starter fluid but won&39;t run then you have a fuel problem, clogged carb or something.
Posted by: godIlove2ride
I hope I don't have this problem on my son's Falcon 150. (knock on wood) This thing has been quite the tough ATV. He's had this quad on the typical rocky PA mountain trails, and has the banged up skid plates under the axle to prove it. The only problem I've had with this quad so far, is DON'T GET THE KILL SWITCH WET!!! We washed it off once with the hose after getting it covered in mud, took it for a ride to dry it off, and it just shut off. It wouldn't restart unless you flipped the kill switch on and off again, and it would run for another couple of minutes. I took the switch apart and used the blow dryer to dry it out. And it has been fine after that. One other thing I have noticed is this quad does something really freaky. If I haul it on the trailer to the place we ride, then start it up, it runs like crap for about a minute and you have to keep giving it gas for it to stay running. The same thing for the ride home too. But this only happens when it's on the trailer. Go figure. I'll never get rid of it because I think it has it's own personality disorder. I don't want it to come back and kill me in my sleep because I sold it.
Posted by: Injuhneer
I have a Falcon 90 I bought at Christmastime as a gift for my daughter. It has about 18-20 hours on the engine and has started exhibiting similar symptoms but has not yet reached the point of being unable to start.
I suppose I'll have to put the borescope in through the sparkplug hole and have a look.
On the other hand I picked up a gently used Falcon 150 today for a song and a dance. :-)
-Mike
Posted by: Injuhneer
Well, there doesn't appear to be a dropped valve seat. I was able to clear up the sporadic running with a shot of SeaFoam in with the gasoline to clear the carb out. But it is still persistently smoking. It is a constant light smoke that increases under load.
I suspect the piston rings or intake valve seal. I warmed it up and drained the oil. It seemed to have alot of metal particulate suspended in the oil. It makes no odd noises but still smokes. I am sure it is not a rich mixture smoke.
The spark plug is a little oily. So I guess that means it will need rings. And I will change the valve guide seals while I am in there for good measure.
Good thing I worked on alot of Honda CTs back in the day. The teardown should be a cinch.
Posted by: Injuhneer
It appears that the compression is good but I may replace the rings since it will be apart anyway.
After observing it running while my kids ride it behaves like valve guide seals. It smokes a little constantly (almost invisible) but smokes more after a drop-throttle then accelerate. Like it is sucking a little oil past the intake guide.
In any case it doesn't seem severe so I'll watch it closely until colder weather sets in then do the service.
Does Raceway carry those types of engine parts ?
-Mike in AZ
Posted by: Injuhneer
Quote
Originally posted by: reefskinner
I wouldn't be to quick to tear that engine down. It may not even be broken in yet. If you do tear it down, I would recommend that you try to match up some OEM Honda stem seals. I would bet they are better than the Chinese copies. All other parts, I would go with Raceway. As you can see, John is on top of these quads and has already chimed in above to let you know that Raceway has the parts. There service is unmatched!
Accessing the engine in this frame is more work that the top-end rebuild. About the seals: this motor appears to be a variant of the CT70 engine. Are these the valve guide seals you are recommending?
As for the rest of it; I am going to give it a bit more time to see if the light smoking is related to the piston rings bedding in since I have a 125cc pit bike that is behaving in a similar way without the deceleration smoke.
Posted by: bowhun2r
Hey, I want to thank everyone in this thread. My son also has the 90 with about 15 hours on it. Same symptom. Quad just stopped, about an acre away from the garage..... Needless to say we pushed it back and I first thought it was a gas issue.
I won't go into the troubleshooting, but the flow followed exactly what was stated previously. I put a call into John at Raceway (where I puchased the bike) and he gave me a short email on adjusting the valves.
Now I'm pretty mechanically inclined but I've never attempted to do this before. So I'll let you know how it works out tonight.
But thanks again for a great detailed writeup on the symptoms and fixes. I was out of ideas and was getting a little upset until a google search hit this thread.
Posted by: bowhun2r
Ok,
I've now confirmed that I have a broken rocker arm. I've spoken to John and he has a replacement head coming for me. I have a few questions before this thing arrives. I've spent a few hours on "how things work.com" learning about the workings of a 4 stroke. Like I said before, I'm pretty mechanically inclined but I've never attempted this.
1. I've taken the bolts off the head (carb, exhaust...) and the only thing left that I believe is holding the head to the lower block is the timing chain. On the sproket for the timing chain there are 3 bolts. These have to be removed I assume to get the head off. Is it as simple as that? Then put the other head back on then place these three bolts back into the new head for the timing chain? Hoping that the lower part of the chain doesn't come off of that sproket.
2. I don't think the engine has to be pulled from the chasis. At least it doesn't look like it. Right?
3. I have fresh Amsoil, I assume when u do something like this it's a good idea to replace the oil as the new head will have fine pieces of metal that may shear off after the first run.
4. The valves should already be adjusted and there is no need to adjust the valves or lub them right?
5. I shouldn't have to use any gasket goo, just make sure the two pieces of metal are clean of debris before placing the seal on.
Is that it? Anything I missed or helpful hints will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Scott
Posted by: bowhun2r
ok, so after a 4 hour experience this is what I've learned:
Symptom:
Falcon 90 won't start (read reefskinner's symptom, same issue)
1. Called Raceway and spoke with John and explained my symptom. No problems, after learning what was wrong I had a replacement head shipped to me.
2. Week later I receive the new head and I begin to research (www.howstuffworks.com, excellent resource). I'm pretty good mechanically but have never tried this before.
3. You can not remove the head from the 90 without swinging the engine. I of course found this out after 30 minutes of studying how I could. So I removed the four bolts and the one rear bolt that ties the engine to the frame. I cut the electric wire strap and got enough play in the wires to swing the enigine enough to remove the head.
4. The timing chain was a bit tricky. Thanks to the earlier post of securing the sprocket before removing the head. I did not want the chain coming off the lower sprocket in the block.
5. After securing the chain, the head comes off pretty easy. You have the 4 top bolts and the side screw securing the head. Plus you have to remove the carb and exhaust. Pretty easy.
6. Put new gasket on and made sure the washer for the oil outlet is set and put the new head on. The cam was in the same position as the original cam, so timing was not an issue. There is also a mark on the cam sprocket which denotes TDC. So that made it a bit easier too. I am/was a noob, so TDC means Top Dead Center. Your rocker arms should play a little since both valves are closed at this setting. I read other posts about TDC and didn't have a clue, hope that helps.
7. Getting the timing sprocket on the new cam shaft was probably the most difficult/PITA. Not sure if there is a trick or not, but I used a flat head and was able to move the sprocket onto the cam shaft by gently wedging the flat head on the sprocket and moving it towards the front of the bike. There are 3 screws that secure the sprocket to the cam shaft and while putting preasure on the screw driver I was able to finger tight the screws onto the sprocket. Hard to explain, but if you see it for yourself you'll understand what I'm talking about.
8. Secured the engine back to the frame. Put the four bolts on the bottom in frist, that will line up the rear bolt.
9. Reconnected carb and exhaust.
10. With valve covers off I disco the plug and I hit the starter. I adjusted the valves so that the rocker arms were nearly touching the cam shaft. I read somewhere there is suppose to be a .003 space there. You can't get a spacer in that little of area so I used my best judgement. .003 is pretty thin so there is like a paper thin gap between rocker and cam shaft. I hat the starter and watched the valves operate. Pretty cool.
11. Put the plug in and hit the starter and boom.... One nice firing 4 stroke engine once again.
So everyone is happy once again...until......
Not more than 5 hours running time I started to hear a rattler. I checked all my work and I found a new issue. The exhaust pipe is cracked right where the smaller pipe goes into the muffler. It's cracked all the way around and essentially is useless. Pretty loud from the engine and the rattles.
So, John any chance I can get a new tail pipe assembly? This will obviously be much easier installation, but until I can get one I asked the boys to not ride it. Pretty darn loud and I don't want to cause any friction with the neighbors.
Long post, but it was a long job.
Posted by: bowhun2r
AFROracing,
Thanks for the offer, pretty cool pics too.
I'm more interested in where you picked up the aftermarket pipe. If you have a url, could you pass that along.
Thanks again,
Scott
Posted by: bowhun2r
Just spoke with Raceway, the replacement will be shipped out today.
I wish all my vendors were like them.
Thanks for the link. That aftermarket pipe looks better built than stock. I'm going to get that as well. Be good to have a spare around.
Besides the pipe, have you done anything else to your falcon?
Posted by: leohe83
my 250cc sport atv rode for six month,but the gear box is very good.my engine is LONCIN....
