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Posted by: Sandgod
I bought an older 23' WW. I had a 98 Ford F-!50 w/ Triton 5.4 automatic. I had 373 gears/ Stock tires were 31's and I had 33's on it. I live out west. I bought it in Vegas and drove it to SLC UT. The gas mileage was aweful and I had it floored most of the way. I didn't even have quads or water in it. I sold my truck and bought a 3/4 03 Cummins. I had airbags on my Ford so the suspesnion handled the weight easily. I sold it because of the mpg and the strain on the motor..
Posted by: BADBEARnoSportsman
I use to pull my 21 ft bumper pull with my 00 1500 z71 with 410 gears. my trailer weighs 6300 dry, loaded it was around 7700-8000. I never had a problem pulling this trailer other than on steep grades i would slow way down, and occasioinaly when a semi passed me going fast i would fish tail a little. If your loaded trailer weight is going to be close to 9000 lb, I would consider getting a 3/4 ton truck with big block or diesel.
Posted by: TractorPacker
Look into the "lite" class towhaulers. I have a 23ft weekend warrior and go to town with 3 quads. I have a 1500 dodge. I haven't checked to see if it is legal with 3 quads but I know it is safe. The trailer has better brakes then the pickup does.
Posted by: LTZ
B&RW said it all. The truck may pull it but the trans, suspension and most of all brakes aren't up to the task for long. My 22ft WW squats my 2500 Dodge diesel 4x4 about 4". The 1500 is alot softer than mine and that tongue weight (about 800lbs on the Attitude???) is alot. Think safety first..........
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
You'd be lucky to be able to tow it LEGALLY.
Over on an RV forum a guy with a Nissan Titan ended up selling his truck and getting an '05 Ford super duty PSD. He took it to some scales and it was much heavier than what the trailer would say it would weigh. Be VERY careful. THs weigh a LOT. Base your purchase on the GVWR of the trailer, not it's "dry" weight. And the tow capacities of the trucks are a bit overstated. Industry standard for Tow Capacity is a stripped truck, 150# driver and full tank of gas.
Since you don't have the trailer yet, go to a local scale and weigh your truck. This could be either a public scale (usually at truck stops), rock yard, garbage dump, etc. Call around and see how much they will charge. Usually not more than $10. Fill the truck up with gas, and anyone who will be in it when you tow (family, friends, etc.) Also with any stuff you'll have in the bed, wood, etc. Weigh the front and rear axles.
There are four weights and 4 ratings you need to watch.
GVWR is the most that the vehicle can weigh. This is located on the safety sticker on the drivers side door, or door pillar. Usually a white label.
GAWR is the most that the axle of the vehicle can weigh. Front and rear axles usually have difference values. Most half tons have a heavier front axle rating than the rear (engine). The front and rear GAWRs will usually be higher than the GVWR.This is located on the safety sticker on the drivers side door, or door pillar. Usually a white label.
GCWR is the most that the combination of vehicles can weigh. This will be in your owners manual.
Each of those have their actual complimenting weights (denoted by the removal the R). It's what it actually weighs. None of them (GVW, GAW & GCW) can exceed their ratings. Subtract the actual values from their ratings. The result will be the available payload for the trailer.
The tongue weight (generally 10-12% for a TAG (bumper tow) of the trailer) will be on the truck and goes to the trucks GVWR and GAWR. A WD setup can move about 30% of the tongue weight back to the trailer. DO NOT run without WD. This will actually lift the front end up off the ground. Think of it as a teeter totter. You put 1,000 pounds of weight on the hitch which is one end. The rear axle is then the fulcrum point (hinge point). It's going to lift the front end up. This will cause SERIOUS handling issues. Also note, that when the trailer is empty, the tongue weights, by percentage of trailer weight, are VERY high as the toys aren't on the back of the trailer lifting the tongue up.
Realistically, you are looking at about 50% of the tongue going to the rear axle, 20% to the front axle and the rest going to the trailer axles. This can be adjusted by adjusting the hitch head and tightening or loosening the bars.
Ok, just as an education excercise I'm going to use real ratings (except GCWR which I think is 12,500), with numbers pulled out of my butt for actuals. Based on my '04 F-150 work truck. 4.6L V8, AT, 3.55 gears. As you can see, the front GAWR is lower than the rear, and the add up to more than the GVWR. Something ELSE is limiting GVWR, NOT the axles!
GVWR 6650
GAWR(f) 3450
GAWR(r) 3400
GCWR 12,500
Made up actuals (I really need to weigh this one of these days). I'm going to make this easy and use "round numbers"
GVW 6000
GAW(f) 3000
GAW(r) 3000
Notice that GAW(f) + GAW(r) = GVW. You don't need to weigh each one. Weigh the front axle only with the back axle just OFF of the scale (unless it's an axle scale). That is your GAW(f). Then pull completely onto the scale in the center. That's your GVW. Just subtract your GAW(f) from GVW and you have GAW(r). On axle scales add both axle weights to get yoru GVW.
Now here's the math. It's easy. We're talking 4th grade stuff here.
GVWR - GVW = total available for the tongue weight (TW)
GAW(f) - GAW(f) = available payload on front axle
GAW(r) - GAW(r) = available payload on rear axle
6650 - 6000 = 650 <-- that's the important one!)
3450 - 3000 = 450 <-- just to keep in mind...helps with WD hitch setup later
3400 - 3000 = 400 <-- just to keep in mind...helps with WD hitch setup later
12500 - 6000 = 6500 This is the amount the trailer can weigh. One thing though, you gotta factor in the WD setup. Figure 75lbs for the head. I'd factor 100 though to include the bars, & sway control. So lets call it 6400 to be safe. And THAT is our goes...SAFETY!
So if I was looking for a trailer, I'd look for a TH with a GVWR of 6400lbs. I don't think one actually exists. The closest thing is a Fleetwood Scorpian at around 6800 GVWR. Now, that's based purely on the GCWR.
Now we also want to look based on what the tongue weight is going to. Some of the newer trucks have the GCWR, but not the GVWR! So I have 650 lbs avable for tongue weight. One thing we need to factor in, is that hitch @ 75 pounds! So, now I'm down to 575lbs.
Now this is the most complicated equation. We want to find out how heavy of a trailer we can tow but has a maximim hitch weight of 575 pounds. We know that the TW of a TAG should be 10 to 12 percent. So take the TW and divide that by .12.
575 / .12 = 4791.6666666666666666666666666667
Ok that's a HUGE difference between 6400 & 4800 (just rounding it up a little.) That's the weight of FOUR full size sport quads! Now, I will grant you that the WD will transfer some tongue weight back. If we figure that we can put 30% back on the trailer, that changes us to 8.4% TW. So that would be:
575 / .084 = 6845.2380952380952380952380952381
Now, we are above the actual available based on GCWR - GVW.
To throw in one more little hitch, is that some people recommend to leave a 20% margin running at only 80% of the ratings. Remember, that if you're just starting out, you will weigh more as you go along in your trips. You'll slowly accumulate stuff in the trailer and bring stuff along.
Things to remember:
1) RV dealers lie more than anyone you've ever dealth with. And they are a PITA to deal with (just ask GirlyGirl).
2) RV Manufacturers stretch the truth, if not flat out lie, in their weight ratings. Well, many do. And be VERY careful with Attitude!
3) Truck manufacturer post misleading "tow ratings." Use the math based on the real numbers your nead to use (GVWR, GAWR & GCWR). Numbers are based on striped trucks which few indivual people have. You have an LT, which is the leather trim right? You're truck has a lot of goodies added.
4) RV dealers lie more than anyone you've ever dealth with. BR>5) RV Manuf. will say something is a standard option (it comes with it) so they don't include it in the "dry weight." See #1 & 4.
6) Propane weighs a over 4lbs per gallon. Water weighs 7lbs per gallon, might be 8. Gasoline is 6 or 7 lbs/gallon (it's one less than water.) An empty 20lb/5 gallon propane tank weighs about +/-18 pounds.
7) SAFETY FIRST Your decisions impact everyone you come into contact with or are around. Make the wrong decision and you will come into contact with someone...and not in a good way.
8) Base all weight decisions for towing on the GVWR of the trailer. Not it's dry weight. The first thing you will do is drop at least 70lbs (or more) on the tongue! (Propane & Batter). The tongue should weigh 10-12%. And when they are empty can go past 20%!
This message has been brought to you by Weight Nazi's United for the Safety of All. BR>This was a LAP Production. (You get a cookie if you figure that one out.)
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
Only you can make that decision. You need to weigh the truck and find out.
Power...that's less than 300lbs less GVWR than the efftwofiddy.
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
Quote
Originally posted by: semperdesert
I checked the truck out this morning, I'm rated at 6900. GVW, I also have air bags and, reading my manual, and window sticker, I have the optional 5th wheel pkg installed. Will this help me out? I talked to dealer, however the way he sound was he'll say anything to get me to buy.
Air bags DO NOT increase any capacities. 5th wheels package, if anything, gave you heavier rear springs and axle, maybe. But I don't know for sure.
The only way to know for sure is to weigh your truck.
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
Quote
Originally posted by: TractorPacker
Look into the "lite" class towhaulers. I have a 23ft weekend warrior and go to town with 3 quads. I have a 1500 dodge. I haven't checked to see if it is legal with 3 quads but I know it is safe. The trailer has better brakes then the pickup does.
I don't know about your state, but in CA, the tow vehilce MUST be able to stop the combined load in the event the trailer brakes fail. There's actually a list, based on weights, of the maximum stopping distrance. Yes, in normal operation, the trailer brakes are stopping the trailer, but there can always be a failure. Remember, plan for the worst. As mywifesquad says "Dress for the crash, not the ride." It's applicable in this situation. Set the truck/trailer setup for the "crash." The worst situation.
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
The makers of the Attitude actually market them actively to the 1/2 ton crowd. When a guy over on rv.net called them on it, he had a Titan, they wouldn't even talk about it. I think they KNOW their trailer is heavier, hell they HAVE to know. IIRC, it was on the 19' model that was over. He lost $4k getting out of the Titan and moving up to a Super Duty with a PSD.
Posted by: powerstroke01
Uhm. Im not gonna quote that but ill just nod my head..
Posted by: powerstroke01
Quote
Originally posted by: semperdesert
So I can or can't? I have the heavy duty suspension and think I'm rated at 8340, or close to that.
I wouldnt try it.
Posted by: Hondanutcase
You will need to check the tag on your door or look in your owners manual to find out how much weight you are capable of towing safely. Dont forget to add the weight fully loaded (water, quads, etc). IMO that will be a heavy load for a half ton.
Posted by: Hondanutcase
Just remember, pulling it is one thing, pulling it safely is another.
Posted by: Hondanutcase
Just check your owners manual the info is in there. If you are buying the trailer new the dealer will let you know also.
Posted by: rescuediver
Semperdesert, I had the same truck. I towed a 21 foot trailer with 2 adult quads, water, fuel and other usual camping equipment. Took it all and my daughter to the weigh station. Total weight was 12,700 lbs. Yes, the trailer towed it, but not safely. My truck was in multiple times for transmission issues ie. sloppy shifting, clucking noise. GMC couldn't find anything wrong. I changed the transmission fluid more then I wanted too.
Remember, airbags will not increase the ratings on your truck. They just help it level out betterfor the load you are carrying.
Speaking from experience in the same situation. I strongly recommend moving up to a F250/2500 series truck. You won't regret it.
Posted by: Girlygirl
i am pretty sure my bf has the same exact truck. You can do it if you buy the weight distribution bars? a friend of ours just bought the same size attitidude (the starbucks interior is nice) and he has a comparible truck (except its a ford) and he pulls it fine. We bought on for our chevy and it pulled our trailer with four quads fully loaded just fine! i can get you the exact info if you'd like?
Posted by: Girlygirl
ok but it won;t be till later on today or on mon!
Posted by: semperdesert
Can anyone offer me some advice? I have a 2000 Chevy 1500 LT with the 5.3 tow pkg. I'm looking seriously at the 23 Attitude, however am I capapable of pulling this loaded? I've heard that this is a good one due to it's weight. If not what should I look at staying with 23 ft, front sleeper?
Thanks..
Posted by: semperdesert
That would be great if you got me more info.
thanks for the help...
Posted by: semperdesert
Thats what I plan to do. I am just getting all the info I can now, i have a "feeling" my wife wants to get me one while I'm in Iraq so I want her to know all before dropping any money.
Posted by: semperdesert
So I can or can't? I have the heavy duty suspension and think I'm rated at 8340, or close to that.
Posted by: semperdesert
I checked the truck out this morning, I'm rated at 6900. GVW, I also have air bags and, reading my manual, and window sticker, I have the optional 5th wheel pkg installed. Will this help me out? I talked to dealer, however the way he sound was he'll say anything to get me to buy.
Posted by: semperdesert
Where I'm at (Ca hidesert) the attitude seems to be the Toyhauler of choice for most 1/2tons. looking now at the magalite.
Posted by: semperdesert
that's what i've been thinking. I think I will now be looking seriously at a megalite.
