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Posted by: reconranger
Give us a review of your PackRat, once you have had it a while!
I have both a Honda EU2000is and EU3000is. They are both extremely quiet, and everybody who sees them is very impressed (plus I didn't keep them up all night with a loud generator!). I would consider running two EU2000's in parallel.
http://www.mayberrys.com/honda/generator/accessories/parallel-rv/rv30a.htm
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
Go with at least a 4,000 watt.
Watts are equal to volts times amps. I see several people with pigtails to convert the 30A plug down to a 15A U-ground ("standard plug"). I work for an electrical contractor as a draftsman and I cringe every time I see this. [ed.]Plugs are rated and configured based on what they are designed to carry. Don't change them unless you know what you are doing and know that you can easily screw stuff up (i.e. burn/electrocute/etc.).[/ed.]
You might be able to get away with a 3,500 watt. If there is a 30A main breaker in the trailer the max load that it's designed to carry is actually 24A. (Breakers are rated at 80%). Plus you don't want to get something that's just barely big enough. You'll kill the poor thing. You'll put less stress on it, and it will last you much longer. And you'll have a little extra juice when you need it.
[ed.]I believe that both Honda and Onan have come out with quiet models. Some parks, etc. have mandatory quiet times. Probably 10pm. I believe these new generators meet US Forest Service standards for quiet time and can be run at night if needed.
I just keep finding stuff. Here is Onan's Generator Selector.[/ed.]
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
You will need power rated at 3x the running load to power up any motor loads. Inductive loads (incandescent lamps, etc.) don't have huge pull to start up. I would definitely say to start out with a 4,000 watt class generator. I forgot to ask my supervisor (lic. engineer) what he would go with. When we deal with generators it's usually 50KVA and bigger and often 480/277V 3Phase...a little overkill for our purposes.
If you have a 30A cord connetor, find a generator with a matching receptacle (though I think those cord caps are different than what's on the generator). If not, find a generator with a 30A receptacle on it (most likely a twist-lock style that will probably be a NEMA L5-30R (locking, 120V, 30Amps, Receptacle). You might need to get a receptacle to match your cord cap on your trailer, a section of appropriate cord (like 10/3 SO cord, maybe 8/3 SO), and a NEMA L5-30P (locking, 120V, 30Amps, Plug) to make a short pigtail. No matter what, DO NOT use a cord smaller than what is on the trailer. If you have to make a longer cord, you'll need to go bigger (smaller wire size) do to voltage drop. SO type cord may not be the correct type. Different cords are made for different environments. You'll definately wants something that can handle getting wet if you generator is outside and could get wet.
Go spulunking around your trailer looking for load plates. Usually metal embossed. What you are looking for on the plate is the section marked FLA for Full Load Amps. Remember, Watts=Amps X Volts. And with algebra you can move that around. Remember that you A/C and refer. might be cycling. Your big loads are going to be A/C, refer and maybe the water pump if it can draw from your AC power via an inverter. And most likely you will also be charging the batteries when you have the genset running.
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
Shady, check your PMs. It's a long one and don't wanna ruffle any panties with long off topic posts.
Posted by: BlackandRedWarrior
Good post Mike.
I knew the RV plugs were special as when I've looked at them they didn't seem to ring a bell from any plug chart I've seen.
You are right on all of your points. I work for an electrical contractor and with one exception, I've never seen a portable generator properly grounded while being used. We use "small" Honda 3500 watt gen sets when we need power but the guys never ground them. The one time I seen a portable genset grounded was it was being used to temporarily power an irrigation pump system so the ground system was already in place. I'll also pass on a note that our Honda repair guy told me about the generators, place a piece of cardboard, large board, etc. under the genset to avoid sucking any sand or dirt up into the stator and/or motor.
Posted by: ShadyRascal
I have one of those Costco Generac 5000 watt things with a 10 horse engine. It was as loud as a top fuel dragster, and I put a better muffler on it so now it's about like a pro gas car. It weighs four tons. But, it fires my roof air no problem.
I am looking at smaller quieter and lighter units, and am thinking maybe a 3000 watt unit might be able to fire the air up on that initial load with nothing else running, then would be good to run the thing without too much strain. Any of you electricians have an opinion? As close as I can tell from the vague camper manual its demand is anywhere from 2500 to 3500 watts peak but I think it's the lower end because I have a small 5th wheel (22').
Posted by: ShadyRascal
I picked up a muffler made specifically for that Briggs motor at a place here called Quality Supply (local chain of feed & hardware ranch stores). It actually made a pretty good difference; the factory muffler was just that flat can thing the size of 2 packs of cigarettes, whereas this is an actual round can chambered unit like a quad 4 stroke muffler. About 70 bucks if I remember right.
Does your 3500 light up an a/c unit? That's my main concern, I know the micro & tv will be okay.
Posted by: ShadyRascal
Excellent infor Warrior! Much appreciated, heck I'm going to print that & throw it in my pile of useful tidbits.
Off-topic, since you are well read on this--I'm burying a line from house to shop, don't need 220, about 150 feet long. I was thinking of pulling in some black plastic sprinkler line and fishing the wire through that. Guys say you can wad up a piece of plastic bag, with a string tied to it, and suck it through the pipe, then use the string to pull bigger string, then wire. What would you do? Is there any type of wire you can just bury?
Thanks,
Shady
Posted by: MrZeeedler
honda eu series is definetly the way to go, just go into the place where you are going to buy and get the best deal because retail for a eu3000 is 2000.00 and im not sure on the eu2000. but definetly try for the discount. a nice feature is the 3000 is able to be wired into your rv and has key start. Where the 2000 wouldnt be able to and u have to pullstart. Also the honda are equiped with a system that brings it down to the rpm thats required to run what u have on it. For example u have one light on, well theres no need for it to be on full throttle, but whenever u turn something else on it will go to the right rpm.
Posted by: juniorsmojave
i just bought a generator at costco for $500. it is louder then i like but can power anything i want, 5600 watts. not exactly sure what your looking for but i know the craftsman 3500 watts are just as loud and more money. for anything more than a light you will want atleast 3000 watts. hope this helps.
Posted by: juniorsmojave
i posted before i seen b,r warriors post, and he certainly knows more than me, so follow what he said.
Posted by: RaiderV
Just go a Pakrat but thinking about adding a generator. Electrical is rated 30 amp. I figure 3,500watt is minimum, but, to work properly, does the generator have to have a 30 amp outlet or will a 20 amp work just limit how much power available? Also want something quiet. Does anyone have any recommendations.
Posted by: hotwls13
You should look at either Honda or Yamaha inverter generators. They are quiet and work well. You should look in the 2800-3000 watt if you want it to run your Air. You could also get two of the Honda eu2000i generators and run them parrallel. This is the most recommended setup for people that want quiet, light weight (46 lbs each) and more than 3000 watts. It's also an expensive route $1800-$2000 ($900 each plus cost of parallel cable). You can get a louder ef2800i from Yamaha for around $1200 on ebay (about three times as loud and weighs 65 lbs). Yamaha Ef2800i should run most new Air conditioners up to 13500 btu. This setup would probably only run your air, if you needed power for something else, you just turn the air off. If weight isn't an issue, you could go with the Honda EU3000is. It weighs approx 130 lbs. Price is around $1700-$1800 I think. Or you could go with the bigger Yamaha's. They have two 3000 watt versions and the weigh around 140 lbs (they come with wheels though where the honda 3000 you have to buy the wheel kit separate). The 3000 and a 3000eb. The B model has a Boost that gives you an extra 500 watts for starting heavy surge items like Air Conditioners. They run around $1700 and $1900 for the boost model. The best prices I have found are on ebay. www.mayberrys.com is a great place to get the Honda's but I think they have a huge backorder for them. So after all that,
Quietest:
Yamaha 3000i series 59 db $1700-$1900
Honda 3000i series 59db $1700
Honda 2000i series 60db $900 (recommend 2 if you need Air)
Loudest:
Yamaha ef2800i 67db $1200
Lightest:
Honda eu2000i 44 lbs
Yamaha ef2800i 65 lbs
Heaviest:
Any 3000 approx 140 lbs
If you need more info, do a search on www.rv.net for honda or yamaha generators.
Chris
Posted by: 1BADRAPTOR
Shady what did ou use to quite the muffler down,i have a colman 3500 and it fires everyting up in my trailer,th generator,the TV the microwave so it's strong enough..
Posted by: 1BADRAPTOR
yea she can run them all,and we used the heck out of it at glamis and it worked great,that was my concern for the kids and it worked great,make sure it's a craftsman,i got the colman one from home depot same engine but diffrent maker and had to take it back twice,then the sears one fired right up and been great ever since..thanks for the info on the muffler..
Posted by: tencubed
I'm new to this forum and don't want to ruffle any feathers but feel there are a few items in this thread that need clarification.
The power cords used to supply power to RVs that are designed to handle 220/240 volt AC at 50 Amps are equipped with a unique male plug. In the 30 Amp 220/240 amp plugs a much more common type is used. In both cases IF an approved adapter is used there is no problem with using them as long as the amperage rating of the adapter is not exceeded. The adapter designed to go from high voltage to 120 volt uses just one leg of the 240. When going the other way the 120 is, in most cases, fed to both hot legs of the power cord.
While it is true that circuit breakers are rated at around 80% they will actualy carry more, not less, than rated capacity for a short period of time. A continuious high load will trip the breaker just as a massive (ie: short circuit) overload will.
Wire size is a somewhat confusing thing. The larger the number the smaller the wire size and the less current it will carry. The size needed to carry a given number of amps is determined by the distance to be traveled, the environment the wire is in and the voltage being used. This is best determined by consulting the NEC, National Electrical Code.
Using other than approved direct burial conduit for underground wire runs is dangerous and generally saves very little money. There is wire that can be burried directly without using conduit and, in most cases, is the most economical way to go. Check the code as improper setups can void your insurance.
Of the various generators I have used over the years the little Honda 2000ei units have proven to be the most flexable, economical on gas, easiest starting and quietest of any. I particularly like the option of being able to connect two of them together for double the output. The "Economy Mode" allows these units to run at the lowest speed at which it can produce the power being called for. I have hauled one of these on the back of my quad and used it to power an electric sawsall for trimming trees and cutting back brush. Much quieter and easier than a chainsaw.
The name plate on air conditioners, refrigerators, toasters and such will give you the rated voltage and amperage or wattage of the unit. As has been mentioned A X V equals Watts. On units that have a compressor you will find two amperages. One is Running Load Amps (RLA) the other is Locked Rotor Amps (LRA). Use the RLA when figuring your amperage needs. The LRA is used when diagnosing problems with the system.
If you look the NEC up on the internet you will find there are lots of charts and tables telling you what size and kind of wire you need for the job you are doing. Using the wrong kind of wire for a job can be just as bad as undersizing it.
Current limiting devices such as fuses and circuit breakers should be sized to protect the wiring downstream from them, they are not in place to protect the device at the end of the line. This is why you will find a 15 or 20 amp breaker on a line that may have only a 5 watt night lite burning on it. MOST portable generators I have seen have had a built in circuit breaker or fuse that is rated at or slightly above the units rated capacity. Be sure the capacity of any cord you plug into the generator is capable of handeling this amount of current. Under size extension cords can easily burn out compressors due to voltage drop. Undersize cords will also overheat and are an extream fire hazard.
I know most of this overly long post is a repeat of what you all already know but when it comes to portable power safety is very important. Most of the time none of us bother to put in an earth ground when using a portable power plant, like me and my generator on the quad insulated from the ground by rubber tires, and this just increases the risk of problems.
The surest way to do the job right is to consult with a licenced electrician or call the electrical inspector in your area and follow their advice.
Mike N
Posted by: tencubed
B&R warrior:
Thanks for the tip on putting down a shield to keep the trash out of the generator. Makes sense and I would never have thought about it. May save me and many others large repair bills.
