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Posted by: JohnO
So how do you like those Bighorns? I'm thinking about a set for my upcoming TRV. Pricey, but they look stout. I don't want a super aggressive tread, as I ride mostly on my own farm, and mud tires really tear the ground up.
I found the same as others with my 500i. First, tire pressures, 8 in the front, 6 in the back. At these low pressures, 1psi is noticable. Second, spring rates, a bit stiffer in the front than the back. That seemed to tighten up the slightly mushy front end feeling.
When I first got the 500, I thought it felt a bit top heavy as compared to my big bear that I had been on for several years. Didn't seem to turn in as quickly. However, I also found that was largely perception, rather than fact. Once I monkeyed with the pressures/spring rates a bit, and mainly once I got used to the machine, and learned to lean into the turns (particularly effective on an IRS machine), I had no problems with handling.
Just keep in mind what the Cat was built for. It's not a prepared trail hotrod, it's a rough ground eater. No swaybar, which means it rolls more but also means the wheels articulate better. If the trail gets rough, the Cat really comes into it's own. Flies over a rocky creekbed that my old bear would have been out of control on. I've bushwhacked other atv riders more than once on my 'cat only' trails, they just don't have the GC to get through.
Posted by: weez440
my 27 inch itp 589's gain me ground clearance and because of the stiffer sidewalls as you noted make it alot more stable the the crappy stock 26's. heck i may go to 28's with my next machine cause it will still handle better with those then the stock 26's.and for my style of riding i prefer the shocks to be stiffer for more aggressive riding and if i soften the front suspension it will just make it dive in the corners. one thing i have heard alot of ppl do on the cats to cut down on the negative feedback on the handlebars is to move them forward as far as you can in more of an aggressive angle. this is supposed to really help i guess for hard steering.
Posted by: Theshonk
26" Big Horns
Sway Bar
High Lifter HD springs
This did the trick for my 650 V2
Shonk
Posted by: Theshonk
I love them I have 2500 miles on them and hardly any ware.
Shonk
Posted by: DeeDawg
Originally posted by Mud Hog:
Seems to me that AC should read this post and make a lot of the improvements that you are all talking about. I used to swear by their sleds and have been very disappointed with their atv offerings. Hope it gets better in the future.
Originally posted by buckaroo50:
There is nothing wrong with AC. The suspension and tire pressures just need to be tuned from the factory settings. My experience has been that once tuned the AC can handle better than most and can be right there with the best of them. Actually if you spend some time, the AC IRS and run with an SRA. Plus with AC you get a host of other bennies such as the industry leader in GC and wheel travel. Doesn't get much better than this. AC as well as all ATV's the demon is the 'role-under' from the front tires.
The post was done so that people could tune the suspension and really get the benefits from the AC. Rather than blindly make adjustments, to be able to know what to do in order to get the results that you want. If your machine is behaving in a certain way, some things that you can do to correct it and not just blindly, hit or miss, make changes.
This post has not only helped AC but several other brands, based on the private messages I have received. It all makes my heart smile to know that it has done some good and people have benefited, no matter what they are riding.
I have to agree with buckaroo, there is nothing wrong with the way AC sets up the wheelers. AC has to have the factory settings set to the average user. In my extended family we have a few dozen AC's; most of which are 500's. Should the factory set it up for my 105 pound wife who rides like she is afraid of breaking a nail, or my 380 pound cousin that rides like he is trying to break it in half? Is the intended use of these machines to fly like the wind, or is it mostly farm & ranch work? I think it is more beneficial for the individual to set it up for his body weight, the way he rides, and what his intent is - race or work.
QUOTE FOR TODAY:
"Metro-Sexual" is PC for "Fag"
Posted by: Chumley
Mud Hog, I think the important fact here is that the suspension needs to be tuned for each rider, no blanket setting from the factory will be right for every rider. That's the whole idea behind tuning.
Even I have made some adjustments based on this info and am happy with the results.
Yes buck, don't get all teary eyed on me.
Posted by: buckaroo50
A lot of people have written to me, and in person have asked me about the handling characteristics of the AC's. How to lessen the tippy feeling of the AC's and how to make it a fun 'buzz-around' machine. I will tell you there is no magic too it, some basic principles of geometry, physics and logic can have you running around having a great deal of fun and really enjoying your AC without having to put up with tippy, ill handling.
First of all lets start with tires. All tires 'roll-under' some roll more than others. 2 ply will roll more than 4 ply and 4 ply more than 6 ply etc. Why? because 6 ply have stiffer side walls than either 2 or 4 ply. The stiffer the sidewall the less roll-under. What does roll-under do - it causes oversteer (makes you feel like it is doing a nose dive over the outside wheel while turning) or (the sensation that the front is tucking under). If taken to extreme the machine will roll onto its side. In a nut shell 'roll-unders' can cause 'roll-overs' How do you stiffen sidewalls? Simply, add more air or add tubes or both. With that said.
On to profiles (sidewall height) - a low profile tire will always have less 'roll-under' than a tall profile tire. A 25 inch tire has a lower profile than a 26 inch tire and a 26 has a lower profile than a 27 inch etc. So in a nut shell again a 25 inch tire will always give you superior handling characteristics over a 26 inch and taller tires. A side note here, a 25 inch tire will also accelerate faster because it maintains a lower gear ratio. And also if your engine because of the gear ratio change may not be able to pull the full RPM range, you may find that the 25 inch tire will also run a faster top speed. It will certainly get to the limiter quicker and it will also put more power to the ground. (Same principle that you are putting more power to the ground in low-range than in high-range).
Now let's talk about springs and suspension. General rule - soft suspension grips and stiff suspension doesn't. (The physics behind this is that gravity is a constant downward pressure, when you soften a suspension you are making it heavier because gravity can act on it more, if you make your suspension stiffer then your are resisting gravity and making the load lighter - heavy is traction/grip) If you look at the setups on the AC you will see different physics and geometry on the front as apposed to the rear. You get most all the stability from the rear suspension. The rear suspension is attached to the lower A-arms and the springs/shocks are at a different angle as apposed to the front. The front suspension is by design made to move up and down and to compensate to an ever changing camber, it is not designed to stabilize the machine (to offer more stability the shock would have to have more angle, which would limit it's ability to compensate for the changing camber and also limit its ability to move up and down and to absorb weight transfer without compromising the camber). So by stiffening the front you are counter productive in making the machine stable and in fact making it more unstable, and if taken to extreme it would make your machine mushy in the rear like you had a flat tire back there and the rear would float and feel squirrely. Because the shocks on the rear are attached to the lower A-arms and have a sharper angle to the frame, by design it is there to stiffen the frame and to stop the machine from tipping. (this is why sway-bars are attached to the rear and not the front).
So what actually happens when you turn? Well to a degree you need to slow down, this causes some weight to be transferred from the rear to the front. and when you actually initiate a turn some of the weight from the inside is transferred to the outside. This puts a heavy load on the outside front wheel. Remember soft grips and stiff doesn't, if your springs are too stiff (which you may think would assist in handling the weight transfer and make the machine more stable - it doesn't) the machine will plow or want to go straight. Remember the rear does the stability not the front. If the front is soft it will absorb the weight transfer and grip, a stiffer rear will keep it from feeling tippy. (we actually do have some extra stiffness in the front by having appropriate air in the front tire to stop 'roll-under' - tires to some degree are like mini springs - but without the control of rebound or compression that a shock offers - all we can do is to remove some those properties by making the tire stiff). This way the shock can do its job in a controlled fashion, with minimal affect from the tires rebounding and compressing uncontrollably. The front and rear do just the opposite as well as the left and right. When we load the front we are unloading the rear and visa versa. When we load the left we are unloading the right and visa versa. What is loading and unloading - simply, transferring weight.
Ok now we go into a turn.
If the rear is too stiff or the front too soft we overload the front causing the rear to be excessively unloaded (light - loose) - results are the rear will prematurely slide and the front will oversteer and we may actually have to counter-steer (steer opposite of the turn) to keep the machine from spinning out or having a tuck and roll if the tires are too soft and 'roll-under'. This is called 'loose going in'.
If the front is too stiff and the rear too soft we have the opposite in that the front will understeer or plow because it is not being loaded enough (too light - too stiff) and if the tires are too soft and 'roll-under' we will get the feeling that we want to do a handstand on the handle bars and the inside rear tire may in fact want to leave the ground because the right rear is loaded to heavily and wants to go straight and the inside rear wants to get to the outside (or jump over the outside rear - because the outside rear is planted too firmly - it is soft and has grip and has not given up its weight). This is called 'tight going in'.
A good turn is to have the front soft, load the weight, grip and head into the turn. The rear needs to be stiff enough to resist gravity and give up its weight to the front but not so stiff as to go loose but only to follow the front to the apex (the point at which the turn basically is complete and we have negotiated the entrance) of the turn, at this point we are ready to hit the gas to unload the front and to load the rear again. On occasion this may cause the rear to break loose or loose traction and slid a bit. Once that is complete and the transfer of weight is almost done the rear will load to the point of hooking up (it has no enough weight to get traction), the front has unloaded and now rebounding and becoming light, we may even be able to loft the inside front tire off the ground. We are basically about out of the turn completely and headed straight again.
On to track width. A wider track will always offer better handling. Here is the simplistic physics and geometry behind that principle. A wide track offers stability from left and right weight transfers by decreasing the angle of tippiness. Instead of the weight wanting to go to the outside of the tire it is directed to the inside of the tire causing the suspension to squat rather than roll. Thus in effect simulating a lower center of gravity and not transferring as much weight. Thus confining the transfer of weight within the track width and lessening the transfer to the outside. You can get a wider track with offset wheels or the addition of wheel spacers.
The basics in a nut shell.
1)stop the roll-under from the front tires - low profile and stiff sidewalls.
2)soften the front suspension - to counter the stiffer tires and to more easily absorb the loading of weight without throwing it to the outside (tippy - tuck) or resisting to accept the transfer (plowing - too stiff)
3)stiffen the rear suspension - to enhance the unloading of weight and resist gravity and become light enough (give up some traction) to follow the front (without premature loose going in) and to be light enough with less traction to be able to slide if necessary (at the apex) in order to complete the turn and to get heavy again only when the gas is applied and to hook up.
Any comments, suggestions etc are welcomed contributions.
My question back to all who write to me or in person ask me about the handling is: Why would anyone that already has 12 inches of clearance (industry leader - when all others have 7-11, and basically are forced to make their machines handle worse to gain GC) and has a tippy machine (by nature), want to make the machine handle worse by putting taller tires for a meager ½ inch of clearance, that may be of benefit once or twice a year, in a special situation? And the taller the tire the worse the handling.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: HeftyLefty
Thanks for the lesson. I've never understood the need for lift kits, clutch kits, and bigger tires either. I do have a question for you, is the AC TRV models with their 58 inch wheelbase more/less stable than a regular ATV?. I have a girlfriend I want to take trail riding with me since there are more ATV trails available than Prowler ones, but I want NO tip overs. Would a TRV be too cumbersome on an 'intermediate' rated trail?.
And do you have a clue as to why AC in their infinite wisdom and smarts, can't design, manufacture, and install an axle seal that doesn't leak?.
Leaky axle/ diff seals seems to be the biggest problem with AC products.
Thanks,
Hefty
I have ridden with some TRV and they don't seem to be handicapped at all (Or should I say 1 out of a 100 situations - and sometimes the opposite is true where the extra wheelbase length is an advantage). The extra length gives a nice smooth ride too. As far as the tippy part - I don't know for sure as I have never ridden one. It would seem to be that the extra lenght would contribute to more stability somehow. I think that by design (1 rider vehicle, 2 rider vehicle) that AC would take into account the added weight and where it is located and made compensatory adjustments or mods for that, with respect as to how the suspension is set up. If I did not have my machine I probably would have a TRV.
If you feel that the TRV is too tippy for about $180 you can put wheel spacers on all 4 wheels and that will surely take care of it. I have wheel spacers on mine and for the last 800 miles I have not encountered a situation where the 50" width was a problem. Facts are they have helped in many situations allowing me to ride more off-camber situations, ride a little out of other peoples ruts. I have had it greater than 45 degrees and driven along and it did not tip over, and I have been loaded down pretty top heavy with extra gas cans etc too.
If I were you I would definately get the TRV - you will love it. People that have them love them and what I have seen, what they can do has impressed me.
About seals - mine have never leaked, I repacked my wheel bearing this spring and put new seals in and they don't leak either (they are made in china too - lol)...
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: weez440
my 27 inch itp 589's gain me ground clearance and because of the stiffer sidewalls as you noted make it alot more stable the the crappy stock 26's. heck i may go to 28's with my next machine cause it will still handle better with those then the stock 26's.and for my style of riding i prefer the shocks to be stiffer for more aggressive riding and if i soften the front suspension it will just make it dive in the corners. one thing i have heard alot of ppl do on the cats to cut down on the negative feedback on the handlebars is to move them forward as far as you can in more of an aggressive angle. this is supposed to really help i guess for hard steering.
Gee, and I was always under the impression that soft, long travel on suspension was better for agressive riding (like baja machines) and that stiff suspension would bounce you around like a 'pogo-stick'... lol... Just kidding with you, what ever works for you is fine with me. Well with no bumps to deal with and on relatively flat surface yes, you probably could stiffen the whole suspension up a tad. A well setup suspension would be one that upon entering a corner too fast would slide all 4 wheels equally but still attempt to negotate the turn (without plowing - 'tight', 360 - 'loose', or tipping over - 'balanced - left and right')
My handle bars are tipped forward a little (to get them higher) only because while riding agressively over rough terain I stand and use my legs as shock absorbers and let the machine bounce around only dealing with its own weight and not throwing me around and popping me 2 feet off the seat or up-rooting my teeth.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: AC4LIFE
im not saying b/s or anything on what you've stated buck, but i just want to ask some questions to clear some things up. ive had the settings on soft in the front before, and the ac's have powerful brakes, once i grabbed em a bit, rather than being progressive, and the front squatted and the back end came up, luckily its just stood on its nose and didnt come over the top anymore. what im trying to get at is that b/c of the long travel and tendency to have the front end dip under either braking or cornering, is the reason i have them set to stiff, to limit that movement. id rather have my machine slide a bit in a corner than have my outside front wheel grip and that corner compress and the machine come up and over, which has happend to my father and almost a few times with me. now if any of my assumptions here are wrong, please let me know and correct me, im on these boards to learn about stuff not blab on thinking that i know all. just curious.
You are correct. Different machines may need a little different setting as well as with different riders (remember there is body english too). It is all about weight loading and unloading and your wheight plays into that too.
The major improvement is to stop the 'roll-under' with the front tires. Once that is accomplished then the rest is a matter of personal taste and how a person uses their own body weight with the machine. You seem to prefer that the front push a little - and that is fine. I on the other hand don't like it because when it stops pushing it will grab and there is a sudden snap to the turn.
If you like your front springs a little stiffer that is ok. But you may find that the rear may have to go up also for a good balance... i.e front on 1, rear on 2, then you adjust front to 2, you may have to put the rear on 3. See what I mean.
When you get everything done, a good balance is a machine that will enter a turn too fast and all 4 will slide. Not just the front and not just the rear. As a general rule most setups will have the rear stiffer than the front. What I meant with having soft suspension while setting up handling is that soft will grip and stiff will slide. If you have a machine that is gripping too much in the front then you make it a little more stiff to unload the weight and by the same principle if the rear is sliding too much while entering a turn then you soften it a bit. You can stiffen and soften with both the shock preloads and tire pressure.
All things are not equal. Your front springs from the factory may be a tad softer than mine. My rear springs from the factory may be softer than yours.....
I did the whole article so that people would know what to do if their machine was doing a certain thing. If you go into a turn and the machine wants to go straight or plows then you can either soften the front or stiffen the rear or both and you can accomplish this using both the preloads or tire pressure.
A lot of people thought that if it was tippy then if you stiffened the front that would take care of it - well to some degree it would but then your machine would push like crazy. The tippy is really controled from the rear, that is where you get the stability for the most part.
The article was done so that people when making changes would have some degree of knowing what was going on and not just keep making changes on a trial and error and getting frustrated.
The biggest thing is to stop the roll-under from the front tires. That could mean 6lbs, 8lbs 9lbs or air or putting tubes in the tires or getting a 6 ply tires etc etc. or any combination mentioned. But for good handling the 'roll-under' from the sidewalls of the tires is the first thing that must be adressed and eliminated. Then you can get on with the suspension... once the suspension is set then you may find that you can take a 1lb of air out.
The whole point is that the ill handling and the tippy feeling from the AC's can be addressed and the handling can be greatly improved (and you don't have to do trial and error - that if you know what is going on and what to do then you can make adjustments appropriate to improve the handling). Some people did not know where to start or what to do. Some people didn't know what was happening when it felt like you were doing a handstand on your handle bars or that it felt like you were going to do a nose dive over the outside front wheel. I made an attempt to let them know that when this particular thing was happening, here is why it was happening and here is what you can do to correct it.
So in your case where the front seems to be too soft then yes stiffen it but don't forget about the back too, If you stiffen the front and your handling goes away don't think that you have to set it back, you may only need to add more air to the rear tires or go up one preload setting to bring the handling back.
Whew - I get going and don't know enough to stop... hope this helps.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Here is a fun exercise that you can do to really understand grip and slide.
Take your machine and set the front preloads on the softest and your rear on the stiffest. Put 4 lbs of air in the front and 10 lbs in the rear. Then on asphault at 1 or 2 mph turn left then right. You will see that it turns pretty easy. It may steer hard but it will turn easy - there is a difference between steering and turning.
Then do the opposite. Put 10lbs in the front and the preloads on the stiffest and in the rear put the preloads on the softest with 4lbs of air. Then do the same turns left and right and you will see that the thing just does not want to turn.
Test both settings driving forward as well as backing up.
Slide = giving up traction (to any degree even ever so slight) and being light.
Grip = holding traction and being heavy.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: AC4LIFE
thanks alot buck, u really cleared things up and i appreciate you being able to do so w/o sounding like an arrogant fool, which is what too many people on boards like this tend to be. ill play around with it some more to get it dialed in.
im a very active rider and am able to throw my weight around when i ride, i dont just sit and ride. anyway, when i got the 650 the first thing i noticed is how much heavier the steering seemed to feel than the 400, at first i thought it was just the tires, since the suspension and steering geometries should be almost the same right? well i swapped the tires off the 400 onto the 650, since the 650 has the diff lock and could prolly get away w/ crappier tires on it, and it still was heavy, but now your article sort of explained that.
I am glad that you feel that you have benefited. I do my testing in one area. I know how it handles there and when I make changes I can tell almost instantly what is going on. I don't know if you have a place handy for you to be able to do the same, but it helps me to compare settings and changes.
It actually is fun to play around with the settings to dial your machine in I am sure you will have fun doing it. It is also fun to know when you machine does a certain behavior that you know what adjustments to make to correct it, and not just blindly hit or miss, trial and error try to correct it.
The AC is no sport machine but you can have a sporty ride from it and you can take the tippy out and you can 'dirt-track' with it. Since you are active with your body weight you should have a ball.
If your budget can swing it (not really that expensive) but 1" spacers really make a tremendous difference.
Anyway enjoy and have some fun dialing your machine in. Keep me posted as to how you are coming along.
Posted by: buckaroo50
I failed to mention but it is interesting to note that with in addition of the obvious benefits that wheel spacers offer they also will increase your ground clearance (GC).
Your axles are set in about a 35-40 degree angle if you increase the distance (which you are doing with wheel spacers) then you basically get the same degree of lift. For example if you increase the distance one inch then at 35-40 degrees you would get about 40 percent of the width of the spacer in height gain (close to 1/2 inch). A spacer on each side will get you close to an inch more GC. It is actually more close to 1/2 - 3/4 inch because I don't want to measure the angle of the axle and do the math tonight for exact figures. I only wanted to introduce the principle and geometrics of it.
Want more GC, more stability, more wheel travel and a host of other benefits just add wheel spacers.
This is how I got about 13 inches of GC from a 12 inch machine. Actually when I am sitting on my machine I have about 13.5 inches on both front and rear. I think from the factory I had over 12 inches to start with. I also have over 11.5 inches of wheel travel as apposed to 10 inches (wheel spacers did that too)...
Posted by: buckaroo50
Not much more than what is in the very first post.
If you have a specific situation, you need to tell me what is going on and what you want to change. And what you want it do do differently.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Everything is the same regardless of IRS (independent rear suspension) or SRA (single rear axle). It is all about weight transfer, the loading and unloading of weight to the front and rear, left and right.
Unfortunately since you don't have adjustments for preloads, that there is not much that you can do - short of changing springs. You can however, do some adjustments with your tire pressures (tires are like mini springs).
The other thing that you can do is, if you can get a hold of an old truck tire (any thick tire), you can cut pieces so that they fit between the rings of your springs (nascar - spring rubbers). This will give you a way to stiffen the springs a little.
Your body has weight and when on the machine you can use that weight (body english) to assist in the handling. Sometimes sitting more forward or rearward, leaning forward or backward, and also doing this left and right can assist in the handling.
You can also add wheel spacers for a wider stance and that will help tremendously.
The biggest issue with all ATV's is to make sure that there is no 'roll-under' from the front tires. This single condition can make a great difference.
Posted by: buckaroo50
You would have to make sure that the thickness of the old truck tire was thicker than the distance between your spring rings. Then cut a circle out of the tires to be larger than the diameter of your springs. Then cut a center hole in the rubber to accomodate the shock diameter itself then cut the ring so that you can get it in between the springs. It wold look like a big 'C'.
Well you can make them for the front or back depends what you need. If your machine is pushing in a turn (doesn't turn good and wants to go straight - plows) then you want to make the rear more stiff. If it is sliding the back too much (even to the point of counter steering - steering the opposite direction) in a turn then you want to make the front more stiff.
I would start by making sure that my front tires are not rolling under. Start with 5 lbs in all tires then go up 1 lb at a time on just the front tires and see what changes in the handling characteristics. Or you could start with the fronts at 12-14lbs and come down on pressure - this is the way I do it - I only have to add air once then let some out as I go until I feel that it is turning good and the side walls are not rolling under.
Once you have the front end pretty well set then the rest of the work is done with the rear. Either spring stiffness or tire pressures.
A confusing situation is a feeling that when you go into a turn that you seem like you want to do a nose dive over the outside front. You may feel that the front needs to be more stiff, but in fact what is happening is that the front is too stiff and plowing and the front tire is rolling under and when it hooks up (by this time you have loaded way too much weight from the rear to the front - and it dips) it sort of snaps and gives you a feeling like you want to do a handstand on the handle bars or that the machine is going to tuck and roll. The fix is not to increase the front spring rate but to increase the tire pressures and decrease the front springs. This way the front can squat (from a moderate loading of weight) and grip and the side walls on the tire will not tuck under, and the back will just unload enough to follow the front.
The more your machine pushes in a turn the more the rear will keep trying to load the front with more weight until it turns or you slow down enough to cause the back to stop loading the front. This is why a soft front end will load quickly and squat and go into the turn (but you need to have your tire sidewalls stiff enough not to roll under). The rear at this point will stop trying to load the front and will just follow it. If the rear is too stiff it may slide because of the momentum from loading the front and if the front is in the turn the rear just loads it to the outside and thus a slide. Remember, a body in motion tends to stay in motion until an equal or greater apposing force acts on it.
If a moving ball is met with resistance (bat) it reacts violently in the opposite direction (too stiff on the front) but if the ball is met with a soft catchers mitt, it just absorbs the energy and stops (soft front springs).
I hope this has helped.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Here is something fun you can do.
On dirt - like a dirt road or some such. Start driving in a big circle and keep increasing your speed and note what the front is doing. Are the tires really scuffing hard, are they just tracking good. At some speed they will start to scuff and push. Note that speed.
Then add about 25-50 lbs to your front rack and do the same thing. If you can reach a higher speed before the front starts to scuff and push that means your front springs are too stiff or the rear is too soft.
Then put the added weight on the rear rack and do the same thing. If you reach a higher speed before the front starts to scuff and push that means the front springs are too soft or the rear too stiff.
There is no balance this is only done to give you an idea where to concentrate your efforts. Either it be making the front stiffer or softer, and the same holds true for the rear.
Posted by: buckaroo50
If the front was gripping too good going into a turn, this means the rear is too stiff. You may want to try setting the rear preload to 2 instead of 3 or you can sit a little further back (body english), Play around with it and you will find a setting that is pretty good for you.
Disregard what I just said I forgot that you said the rear was lifting and the front wanted to tuck - Decrease the front tire pressure and or the front preloads. The front did not take the weight soon enough and the rear kept trying to load more and trying to drive the front into the ground and ended up overloading the front and then attemped to put even more by lifting (this means that the rear had too much traction and did not give up enough weight to the front soon enough to become light and loose). In wet conditions the rear should have simulated or actually been loose going into the turn and slid out very easily - thus you are too stiff in the front.
I get a brain cramp every now and then, maybe I should take reading lessons so I can read more closely as to what you said.... lol...
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: yearmax
OK .. Thnaks for all the info professor. I think I got it now .. As for what is happening when I go into a turn the front leans to the outside alot. I am going to try and up the tire preasure and let you know the results .. I am going to try and print out all this info to refer back to it as I go ..
Thanks again for all the info .. I guess it may save me some money by not buying new springs and shocks I hope ..
I will post my results.
I wouldn't think that you would need new tires GoodYear makes a good tire I almost bought some Rawhide Grips. As far as radial is concerned, I have heard that AC's don't like them, I don't know for sure because I have never tried radials. I do know that AC's don't like 'roll-under' from soft side walls, I don't know if the radials react differently to 'roll-under' or not. It will be interesting to know how you are making out so be sure to keep us posted.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: Fossil
Buckaroo,
Thanks for the tire pressure tips. I settled on 7.5 lbs for the fronts and 5 for the rears and it made a big diference on cornering.
I saw on Dirt Trax TV last weekend that they did a static roll over test (tipped the ATVs on a platform) testing a Canam , a Polaris, a Yamaha and an AC. Surprisingly the AC tipped at the highest angle both loaded and unloaded.
Cool, I have 1 inch spacers and you can't imagine how off camber I can tip mine. I will have to remember about the static roll over test results.
Glad to hear that the tire pressure (taking the 'roll-under' out) helped you. Now you can start to work on your suspension (preloads)... lol..
Posted by: buckaroo50
For those of you that have done some of this, it may help other if you post what changes you made and how it has affected your handling. Post what your settings were before you started and what they are now and what you feel has improved or helped your handling.
Has anyone else put spacers on their wheels?
All post greatly appreciated.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Glad to hear that your AC doesn't feel tippy, you probably have your preloads and tire pressures set good, but many do feel tippy.
If your machine is all set then that is great, but you may find if you went to a 25" tire and put some wheel spacers on the thing would feel like a whole different machine and give you a sensation of a 'go-cart'. As a 25" lower profile tire will always handle better than a taller profile, and wider stance with wheel spacers will always improve handling tremendously. Plus the spacers give a host of other benefits also, to include more angle of off-camber, more wheel travel and a little more GC, more stability, smoother ride, tad softer ride, ride out of other peoples ruts, straddle more obstacles. I have 13.5 inches of GC with 25" tires. Maybe your rims are off-set and giving you addition width like a spacer would.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: Fossil
Worked great for me. Handlles like a different machine.
Glad to hear it Fossil, maybe you could post your settings so that others could try it. All machines will be a little different but it could serve as a starting point for someone. Thanks.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Glad things are working for you. Play around with the settings some more and see what results you can get.
Just for giggles try this and see if it helps any.
Drop the rear tires pressure to 5 or 6
and drop your preloads two clicks on both front and rear.
Hey - just a thought - for about $5.00 per tire you could put some tubes in the front tires that may help the radials stiffen a tad. With regard to flats on the trail - I think someone said that "green slime" or something like that would seal a tube until proper repair could be done.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: AC4LIFE
i heard that the slime stuff freezes though. i do ride quite a bit in the winter and was worried about that.
Well it would probably at least get you out of the woods and home until you could get a new tube put in.
Posted by: buckaroo50
I think depending on how your suspension is set will depend on if you get some or not. The top and bottom A-arms move differently that is why as your tire moves up and down the top tips out and the bottom tips in. So at any time the top of the wheel tips out that is aligning the center of the wheel closer to the angle of the axle there for longer distance, and also more GC. It may or may not be measurable. If your hub sits perfectly vertical to the ground then no you would not get any GC as Honeyduck mentioned. You would just be extending the width of your wheel base. Almost all ATV's the hub tips out at the top a little. The wheel as it moves up and down moves in an arc like ')' except for Can-Am which move straight up and down, theirs still arcs but front to rear (longer and shorter wheel base) instead of left to right. I don't know what they call it trailing link, swing arm or what but it connects to the frame in front of the rear tires, more like the setup on a motorcycle.
I am almost certain that I got close to 1/4" more clearance from the spacers - one on each side gave close to 3/8" to 1/2" total lift. Someday I will have to take them off and do the measurements to make sure. I am positive that I got more wheel travel - how could I get more wheel travel from the arc ')' if the GC didn't go up also. Oh well, maybe I am wrong (wouldn't be the first time -lol) who knows for sure. All I know is, that I do have more GC. than before.
http://mysite.verizon.net/buck...ovie/750-p1050208.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/buck...ovie/750-p1050209.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/buck...ovie/750-p1050212.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/buck...movie/750-p1050213.jpg
Posted by: buckaroo50
Let me retract what I said about gaining GC with spacers so that this doesn't turn into a big debate. Let me just say it this way - you might be able to get some if your suspension is set up a certain way. Honeyduck is right in that if you extend the hub you are only making your wheel base wider. That is true.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Yes, I don't think I got any lift from them tho', If I did it wasn't much. Length wise they were only about 1/8 inch longer, it could be the stock had settled some too. I replaced the stock because I was starting to run them more on the middle and once in a great while on the 4th setting as apposed to the second setting. With these I can run either the lowest or second setting and they do pretty good. They may be stiffer but because I can now run them lower they seem about the same. But I feel that they do offer some stability mostly noticeable in climbing hills in that the rear doesn't seem to squat as much so if you are a little off-camber it feels truer, and doesn't want to lift the uphill front tire as much. I also was able to drop my rear tires down to 4.5 from 5 and it helps some on the little bumps I guess - hard to really say.
Part of the reason for my stock shocks being run higher is that with the more aggressive rear tires it was harder to break them loose so I had to go stiffer to break them. I don't really think my stock springs were all that weak.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: Westslope
This thread is such a good read it deserves a bump.
I happen to agree and thanks for the bump Westslope. I hope that all newbies and people having less than adequate handling read this post from front to back. I have gotten feedback from other forums and the results are the same. Polaris, Yamaha etc are all gaining. This makes my heart smile. I am glad that people are getting some benefit.....
I will again offer that anyone having problems feel free to write to me and I will try my best to help out.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: Mud Hog
Seems to me that AC should read this post and make a lot of the improvements that you are all talking about. I used to swear by their sleds and have been very disappointed with their atv offerings. Hope it gets better in the future.
There is nothing wrong with AC. The suspension and tire pressures just need to be tuned from the factory settings. My experience has been that once tuned the AC can handle better than most and can be right there with the best of them. Actually if you spend some time, the AC IRS and run with an SRA. Plus with AC you get a host of other bennies such as the industry leader in GC and wheel travel. Doesn't get much better than this. AC as well as all ATV's the demon is the 'role-under' from the front tires.
The post was done so that people could tune the suspension and really get the benefits from the AC. Rather than blindly make adjustments, to be able to know what to do in order to get the results that you want. If your machine is behaving in a certain way, some things that you can do to correct it and not just blindly, hit or miss, make changes.
This post has not only helped AC but several other brands, based on the private messages I have received. It all makes my heart smile to know that it has done some good and people have benefited, no matter what they are riding.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: Theshonk
26" Big Horns
Sway Bar
High Lifter HD springs
This did the trick for my 650 V2
Shonk
Glad to hear that you are on your way to a more enjoyable ride.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: Mud Hog
from Buckaroo50 - There is nothing wrong with AC. The suspension and tire pressures just need to be tuned from the factory settings. My experience has been that once tuned the AC can handle better than most and can be right there with the best of them. Actually if you spend some time, the AC IRS and run with an SRA. Plus with AC you get a host of other bennies such as the industry leader in GC and wheel travel. Doesn't get much better than this. AC as well as all ATV's the demon is the 'role-under' from the front tires.
The point I was trying to make is that there is obviously a problem with the "factory" set up when the cats are delivered. This being the case, if it is such a simple fix, why doesn't it come "fixed" from the factory. There are alot of people out there on cats that don't read forums like this and ride around on a machine that could easily be made a bit safer to ride. You would think AC would want to take these simple steps.
I agree with you. Part of the situation is that in most cases the front tires need more air, up around 8 lbs and all factories (not just AC) put in a max and recommend a max of 5 lbs. I think the single most important thing to do with any machine is to add air to the front so that the 'roll-under' is diminished. The second most important is to make sure the front springs are soft enough to accept the weight transfer and not push in a turn. And the third most important thing is to make sure the rear suspension is stiff enough to become light while entering a turn, again not push, but only to follow the front end.
Most people think that in order to make the ATV handle better that the front springs need to become stiff to make it more stable - THIS IS WRONG - IT IS JUST THE OPPOSITE. The front needs to be soft and accept weight and get grip and the stability comes from the rear suspension, with it's ability to become light (because it is stiff) and slide if necessary and not to overly grip and compromise the machine into a dip or a roll.
I agree that it is too bad that some riders don't read the forums, but for us that do we can offer comments and 'how-to's' to people that don't read these forums. I have helped people that don't even have a computer. They see my machine perform and ask 'how are you able to do that'. So I tell them.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: Chumley
Mud Hog, I think the important fact here is that the suspension needs to be tuned for each rider, no blanket setting from the factory will be right for every rider. That's the whole idea behind tuning.
Even I have made some adjustments based on this info and am happy with the results.
Yes buck, don't get all teary eyed on me.
Chumley, (lol) you made my day, I am happier than a pig in sh_t. Good for you, I am glad that some of this post helped out for you.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: roamerr
Just purchased an H1 650 and went riding today at Brushy Mountain (http://www.bmmspark.com/). The H1 is great but really scares me on steep hills where I need to turn. My old Yamaha Wolverine had no issue but the H1 would start to tip. Freaked me enough that I got off twice ,set the brake, lifted the front to make the turn downhill, then got back on and rode.
I checked my air and that may be part of the issue -- 9 lbs all the way around. I will try reducing the back tires to 5 psi pon my next ride. Part of my issue was grip -- several of the turns were on large rock and the rear tires would slide sideways when trying to turn.
Where is the best place to purchase the 1" spacers? I really need more stability when sideways on a hill.....
Here is where I got mine:
http://www.psep.biz/store/arct...t_atv_wheel_spacer.htm
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: roamerr
Any negative to spacers other than the extra width?
Thanks for the link. The H1 is 4/115mm bolt pattern...correct?
No negatives at all, not once did the extra width bother this past spring and summer. So many other benefits sure makes it worth the money spent. Makes the machine really stable and handle like a 'go-cart', off-camber is tremendous (as you can see if you check my pictures), you can traverse across hills with tons of stability.
Be sure to turn your rear springs stiff enough, with the AC the stability comes from the rear suspension and not the front. I am sure you read most of the post but most important one is the first post.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: roamerr
Received and installed my 1" highlifter spacers today. I do have a question...
The wheel studs on the H1 650 are not long enough to use all of the threads in the nuts that hold the spacer on. The wheel studs are holding the nuts by 4 to 5 threads on each stud (the stud nut has 9 threads total). Does this seem adequate? I can tighten them very tight and seem to have a solid connection but wonder if 4 to 5 threads on each bolt is enough.
My only other alternative is stud extenders like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
The 1" spacer did increase my ground clearance --
back was 13 1/8" and now is 13 3/4"
front was 13 3/8" and is now 14 1/4"
both measurements are unloaded -- a big change!
You will notice that the stock lugnut is not very thick - when you put on the spacers the lugnuts use just as many threads as the stock lugnuts. I was concerned with that and thought of smaller lugnuts or other mods but I have had my spacers on for close to 9 months and absolutely no problems. I think in the directions there is mention of the number of threads that the larger lugnuts use - same number as the stock lugnuts.
I also got extra clearance from my spacers, someone argued with me about it, but I did, I have 13.5" both front and rear - well maybe the front is a tad higher but close enough to call it the same. If I turned up my spring preloads I am sure I would have more but I run the front on the lowest setting and the rear on the second to lowest. and if I do on occasion boost the front to the second setting then I turn the back up also.
The wheel spacers are an awesome mod for great handling, especially on off camber situations to say nothing about the 'go-cart' feel while goofing off.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Keep in mind that the rear has to be light enough to give up some traction so that the front can do it's job - too much traction and you will get a push in the machine - it will try to go straight.
I think that 10" wide on the rear is plenty for any situation.
I like my MudCats on the rear. The do really well in mud and do great in other traction situations.
I got the MudCat rear tires from here:
http://www.tiresunlimited.com/...ang/MudCat/MudCat.htm
I got the MudGear front tires here:
http://nebraskatire.com/atv/gear/mud_gear.htm
Happy riding
Posted by: Honeyduck96
Originally posted by: buckaroo50
I failed to mention but it is interesting to note that with in addition of the obvious benefits that wheel spacers offer they also will increase your ground clearance (GC).
Your axles are set in about a 35-40 degree angle if you increase the distance (which you are doing with wheel spacers) then you basically get the same degree of lift. For example if you increase the distance one inch then at 35-40 degrees you would get about 40 percent of the width of the spacer in height gain (close to 1/2 inch). A spacer on each side will get you close to an inch more GC. It is actually more close to 1/2 - 3/4 inch because I don't want to measure the angle of the axle and do the math tonight for exact figures. I only wanted to introduce the principle and geometrics of it.
Want more GC, more stability, more wheel travel and a host of other benefits just add wheel spacers.
This is how I got about 13 inches of GC from a 12 inch machine. Actually when I am sitting on my machine I have about 13.5 inches on both front and rear. I think from the factory I had over 12 inches to start with. I also have over 11.5 inches of wheel travel as apposed to 10 inches (wheel spacers did that too)...
While extended A-arms would indeed provide the extra GC mentioned above, wheel spacers have no effect. By extending the A-arms, you are moving the wheel OUT and DOWN parallel to the axel at the 35-40 degree angle you mentioned. Spacers will only move the wheel OUT further, parallel to the ground, gaining you track width but not ground clearance. Still a excellent handling improvement.
Great post too!
Posted by: acpower
i would like to say that i dont even feel arctic cat atvs are tippy to begin with. i have an 06 650 v2 with 27" tires giving me roughly 14" of GC therefor making my center of gravity much higher than say a honda or polaris with roughly 8-10" of GC. i can zip through tight wooded trails at my in-laws on mine doing 20-30 without feeling tippy or like i need to slow down. last time i was there i took their Polaris 500 EFI through the same trails and felt much more like i was going to roll on theirs than on mine. BTW the plastic racks on Polaris really really rattle and make a monotonous noise at speeds under 10. i dont know how they live with that. but i wouldnt recommend spending money on wheel spacers. just get used to the ride then let er rip.
Posted by: yearmax
I love reading this post and have learned a thing or two. Now I have a question .. I am on a 00' AC 400 with no adjustment on the springs .. Do the same principles apply ? Also I have a solid rear axle. Would the same hold true for that as well or does it change a bit because of the setup of the machine?
Posted by: yearmax
So if I just cutup a tire and put pieces between the rings on the spring I can use that as a make shift adjuster to stiffen my springs ? I am guessing I want to do this for the front only correct?
Stupid question ... I do I hold the pieces there ?
Posted by: yearmax
OK .. Thnaks for all the info professor. I think I got it now .. As for what is happening when I go into a turn the front leans to the outside alot. I am going to try and up the tire preasure and let you know the results .. I am going to try and print out all this info to refer back to it as I go ..
Thanks again for all the info .. I guess it may save me some money by not buying new springs and shocks I hope ..
I will post my results.
Posted by: yearmax
JUst to post an update .. I am still working on the setting as I have little time these days with work and all ..
Anyway I started with 6psi all around and the 01' ac 400 felt very tippy to the out side when I turned. I rasied the preasure all around to 12psi went around ( mind you this is on pavement) and still felt tippy . Not as bad but still there. I noticed the the fronts still had roll under even with 12 pounds of air in them .. did not want to put any more air in with fear they may pop.
Lowered the preasure to 10 in the rear and think 8 or 6 in the fronts still tippy .. I guess radials are not cat's best friend. I am still playing with the preasure and thinking about getting some tubes for the front.
Well keep you posted as I go along.
Just to touch on the slime subject that was mentioned. I have it in all my tires not and one in the rear had three plus and a small leak .. All gone after the slime. I love the way the stuff works I would recommend it to all.
Posted by: Fossil
Buckaroo,
Thanks for the tire pressure tips. I settled on 7.5 lbs for the fronts and 5 for the rears and it made a big diference on cornering.
I saw on Dirt Trax TV last weekend that they did a static roll over test (tipped the ATVs on a platform) testing a Canam , a Polaris, a Yamaha and an AC. Surprisingly the AC tipped at the highest angle both loaded and unloaded.
Posted by: Fossil
Worked great for me. Handlles like a different machine.
Posted by: Fossil
front tires: 7.5 lbs
Rears: 5.0 lbs
front shocks: softest setting
Rear shocks: second from softest
Stock tires (2007 goodyears)
Posted by: HeftyLefty
Thanks for the lesson. I've never understood the need for lift kits, clutch kits, and bigger tires either. I do have a question for you, is the AC TRV models with their 58 inch wheelbase more/less stable than a regular ATV?. I have a girlfriend I want to take trail riding with me since there are more ATV trails available than Prowler ones, but I want NO tip overs. Would a TRV be too cumbersome on an 'intermediate' rated trail?.
And do you have a clue as to why AC in their infinite wisdom and smarts, can't design, manufacture, and install an axle seal that doesn't leak?.
Leaky axle/ diff seals seems to be the biggest problem with AC products.
Thanks,
Hefty
Posted by: Westslope
Curiously, even though your moving the tires parallel to the ground you should still gain some GC. The only time you wouldn't would be if your suspension was at 90 or at a 180 degrees to your axle (which of course would be useless), the most you'd achieve is if you suspension was at 45 degrees. In relation to the suspension your not moving out at a 90 deg angle, more so, therefore will gain a GC increase. Depending on the machine this might be minor, but it will still be something.
Due to the fact that english is my 3rd language (it is also my 1st and 2nd, but that is besides the point..LOL) and I haven't made myself clear feel free to post or PM and I'll use a fancy program like Paint to give an illustration.
Cheers
Posted by: Westslope
Okay since I am terrible at explaining things I'll just say that on my quad the axles are not parallel to the ground but pointing downward a little bit. Thus I'll gain a little GC by adding spacers because I am pushing them down and out. Depending on your machine and its axle angle will determine whether or not you'll gain anything. Too keep things simple (KISS) SRA bikes will not gain GC with this reasoning.
As well, your suspension (IRS) will come into play a little here. Having too soft a suspension in the back will push it down causing the axles to come upwards and thus loose GC, regardless of spacers or not. Too stiff will maintain GC but will not ride well.
I am going to forget about the geometry of it all since there are so many machines, producing so many different angles, that it would be impossible to have a 'one fits all' solution.
Posted by: Westslope
This thread is such a good read it deserves a bump.
Posted by: AC4LIFE
im not saying b/s or anything on what you've stated buck, but i just want to ask some questions to clear some things up. ive had the settings on soft in the front before, and the ac's have powerful brakes, once i grabbed em a bit, rather than being progressive, and the front squatted and the back end came up, luckily its just stood on its nose and didnt come over the top anymore. what im trying to get at is that b/c of the long travel and tendency to have the front end dip under either braking or cornering, is the reason i have them set to stiff, to limit that movement. id rather have my machine slide a bit in a corner than have my outside front wheel grip and that corner compress and the machine come up and over, which has happend to my father and almost a few times with me. now if any of my assumptions here are wrong, please let me know and correct me, im on these boards to learn about stuff not blab on thinking that i know all. just curious.
Posted by: AC4LIFE
thanks alot buck, u really cleared things up and i appreciate you being able to do so w/o sounding like an arrogant fool, which is what too many people on boards like this tend to be. ill play around with it some more to get it dialed in.
im a very active rider and am able to throw my weight around when i ride, i dont just sit and ride. anyway, when i got the 650 the first thing i noticed is how much heavier the steering seemed to feel than the 400, at first i thought it was just the tires, since the suspension and steering geometries should be almost the same right? well i swapped the tires off the 400 onto the 650, since the 650 has the diff lock and could prolly get away w/ crappier tires on it, and it still was heavy, but now your article sort of explained that.
Posted by: AC4LIFE
hey buck, tried out your advice on the 650, works great now. much more confident through the turns, i lowered my fronts to 3 and my rears are set to 4 or 5, cant remember, but now i like that the front grips and lets the rear end slide out a bit more in the turns.
regarding the ac's not liking radials, i cant stand how the stock mtr's handle on my 650, too much rollover, really soft sidewall,
goodyear mtr's (26 inch) set to 9psi all around
front preload-3
rear preload-5
Posted by: AC4LIFE
i heard that the slime stuff freezes though. i do ride quite a bit in the winter and was worried about that.
Posted by: AC4LIFE
hey buck what kinda of springs do you have in those pics? highlifter hd springs?
Posted by: Mud Hog
Seems to me that AC should read this post and make a lot of the improvements that you are all talking about. I used to swear by their sleds and have been very disappointed with their atv offerings. Hope it gets better in the future.
Posted by: Mud Hog
from Buckaroo50 - There is nothing wrong with AC. The suspension and tire pressures just need to be tuned from the factory settings. My experience has been that once tuned the AC can handle better than most and can be right there with the best of them. Actually if you spend some time, the AC IRS and run with an SRA. Plus with AC you get a host of other bennies such as the industry leader in GC and wheel travel. Doesn't get much better than this. AC as well as all ATV's the demon is the 'role-under' from the front tires.
The point I was trying to make is that there is obviously a problem with the "factory" set up when the cats are delivered. This being the case, if it is such a simple fix, why doesn't it come "fixed" from the factory. There are alot of people out there on cats that don't read forums like this and ride around on a machine that could easily be made a bit safer to ride. You would think AC would want to take these simple steps.
Posted by: mississippi mudcat
Also you must factor in the terrain. I dropped my front to the second lowest setting,increased front pressure to 9 lbs,left the rear setting on the third setting and decreased pressure to 5 psi.I did this on Wed. after reading Buckaroo's post.Went riding in dry and semi wet terrain and handling was greatly improved(thanks Buckaroo!). But today after a hard rain and the ground soaked, I found the front gripped the good ole Mississippi red clay a little to much when attempting donuts.The back started lifting up and wanted to tip as the front dug in during the sharp turn.Just have to learn the limits of the suspension on different surfaces.
Posted by: greencat700efi
I have a 2007 artic cat 700 my opinion the front suspension can't be set stiff enough. I have encounter under heavy braking and turning the weight will still unload to the front end. Recently i have put the front tires up to max air pressure and it feels more stable. All of our riding is rough terrain and serious up and down hills. Can you offer any information.
Posted by: roamerr
Just purchased an H1 650 and went riding today at Brushy Mountain (http://www.bmmspark.com/). The H1 is great but really scares me on steep hills where I need to turn. My old Yamaha Wolverine had no issue but the H1 would start to tip. Freaked me enough that I got off twice ,set the brake, lifted the front to make the turn downhill, then got back on and rode.
I checked my air and that may be part of the issue -- 9 lbs all the way around. I will try reducing the back tires to 5 psi pon my next ride. Part of my issue was grip -- several of the turns were on large rock and the rear tires would slide sideways when trying to turn.
Where is the best place to purchase the 1" spacers? I really need more stability when sideways on a hill.....
Posted by: roamerr
Any negative to spacers other than the extra width?
Thanks for the link. The H1 is 4/115mm bolt pattern...correct?
Posted by: roamerr
Received and installed my 1" highlifter spacers today. I do have a question...
The wheel studs on the H1 650 are not long enough to use all of the threads in the nuts that hold the spacer on. The wheel studs are holding the nuts by 4 to 5 threads on each stud (the stud nut has 9 threads total). Does this seem adequate? I can tighten them very tight and seem to have a solid connection but wonder if 4 to 5 threads on each bolt is enough.
My only other alternative is stud extenders like:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
The 1" spacer did increase my ground clearance --
back was 13 1/8" and now is 13 3/4"
front was 13 3/8" and is now 14 1/4"
both measurements are unloaded -- a big change!
Posted by: roamerr
Finally was able to try out the changes to my 650 H1 -- HUGE Change. The same trails that I stopped and turned the ATV by hand it now goes through without issue. It is still a big ATV but does not feel like its going to flip. I tested it on approx 40 miles of riding and it did great!
I must say "Thanks Buckaroo50"! The suggestions changed me from doubting my purchase to enjoying it.
My settings I settled on are:
Front -- 8.5 psi, shocks on 2nd softest
Rear -- 5 psi (4psi after 32 miles of rocks, jumps, and hills), shocks on 4th setting (one before hardest) (picked this since I am 240lbs)
The spacers did great. I still would have preferred the nuts to be fully threaded but last week I added Blue (removable) Loctite to the threads so they can not just vibrate loose. The ATV handles much better -- never felt tippy.
The only shortcoming I did notice is the tires. My stock tires are same as new (ATV has only 29 hours) buy they do not have near the bite of the ITP Mudlites on my last ATV. I was on several side hills and the tires did not bite -- they just slid sideways (but did not feel like it would tip as before).
Any tire suggestions would be appreciated. I watch alot of sport ATV's and they all have narrow/rounded front tires and really wide/flat rear tires. I definitely prefer that arrangement (as Buckaroo50 mentioned in previous posts). I may just order the same(if available) as Buckaroo50 but do wonder if a 25x12x12 rear with a flat face (still with a mud type grip)would be better. I am sticking with the 25x8x12 front and rounded face. Anyone want to share some suggestions with recommended ordering location? Would a 25x12x14 rear/25x8x14 front with new rims help (I do like the alloys from my SE though)?
