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Posted by: JKB
"Energy Conserving" means friction modifiers have been added and it is not recommened for wet clutches. Shell all produce synthetic base.
Jim
Posted by: Bear4570
During break in I ran the standard AC oil (2 oil changed) and then switched to AC's synthetic. The stuff makes the engine run smoother and better. I switched the old 2001 AC 250 to it too because it worked so much better. I just buy the oil change kits that have the oil and the filter in them, Cheaper and easier.
Posted by: Bear4570
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Originally posted by: duckdawg
I was thinking about switching to the synthetic myself. My dealer recommended staying with the regular. I would think the synthetic would be better and might even help the engine run cooler. You might be able to verify this Bear.
It is and it does(cooling fan comes on less) and it is worth the extra expense. Why would your dealer tell you not to use an oil that will make your motor run better, last longer and have less problem? I find that strange. My dealer, highest volume Arctic Cat dealer in the state (only sells Cats too and gave me the best deal by several hundred dollars than any other dealer and gives me a 10% discount on parts because I bought from them) recommended I switch to the synthetic. Of course they only own and ride Arctic Cats themselves and don't ride any other brand.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: scooter1967
after asking my AC dealer about what oil to use he suggested a synthetic oil even if it is the first oil change. th w warranty would still be fine.
i know with polaris i always had synthetic and worked great.
tons and tons of miles before an oil change.
if you have a synthetic for an automobile it is around 7000 miles before change and not 3000 miles
Arctic Cat recommends 300 mile oil changes with regular oil and 600 mile changes with synthetic. Quads get what is know as "rough service" and they sit alot of the time which adds the time factor to the mileage numbers.
Posted by: Bear4570
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Originally posted by: Hoopie
you would be correct. THe amsoil 0w40 is for wet clutches and a lot of people use that in the cats with great results.
heres a link to check out
http://www.arcticchat.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15239&st=15
Back in my boat racing days we had a guy actually get Amsoil for a major sponsor, very big dollars involved. He had more motor problems than the guys using the manufactures oil. He replaced engines on a double to triple the rate everyone else was. They threw a lot of money at him so he could afford it. So I have a distrust of Amsoil since then. Of course these were 2 stroke motors turning in excess of 8500 RPM, but the question has always remained in my mind. Just an observation and opinion is all.
Posted by: Bear4570
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Originally posted by: Hoopie
That was a long time ago! 25 years! I think oil companies have come a long ways since then.
They sure have. Big oil has singled handedly in the last year cripple not only the Us ecomomy, but the worlds economy. If you believe anything big oil says, well, I have some real low priced water front property for you near New Orleans.
I believe what the manufacture tells me to use in the engine, why, well he has to warranty that machine and he is gonna recommend the best stuff to not have a problem. That's why I am using Arctic Cat Synthetic. Go ahead and save a buck now, but I will promise you, you will pay for it big time down the road.
Posted by: Bear4570
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Originally posted by: Hoopie
"Keep in mind that Artic Cat is not an oil producer, or refiner. There oil is refined by one of the other major refiners and is repackaged with their label. With that said, I believe the majore reason Arctic Cat puts their label on a quart of oil is to make a profit. They find an oil that is acceptable for their machines, put their label on it, and double the price. "
Well said and that is true with all the oils ex. polaris, yamaha, honda, etc... and I have personaly found amsoil to work the best in all my 5 vehicles.
True, Arctic Cat is not an oil producer any more than say Mercury Marine. However they have oil made to their own specs to meet the requirements of their own products. Manufactures rarely just put their Name on just any junk out there. They test and quite often modify formulas and get something that works in their own product.
Posted by: Bear4570
Energy conserving sounds like something to do with reducing friction to increase fuel economy and lasting longer by being resistant to heat. Do you know why synthetic oil was developed in the first place. It was developed because because regular petroleum oils lasted about 2 hours in jet engines. So they developed synthetic oil to with stand the high heat and reduce the friction by keeping everything lubricated. So by definition all synthetic or synthetic blended oils are energy conserving.
Posted by: Bear4570
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Originally posted by: Hoopie
On "energy conserving" am i referring to non synthetic blends of oils.
How would any non-synthetic oil be energy conserving?
Posted by: Bear4570
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Originally posted by: frankblum43
Like them or not Amsoil pioneered and produced synthetic oil in this country long before anyone else including Mobil. I have run several brands of synthetic in most everything I have owned since 1988. I have never had a problem and don't expect to. It tells you in the little manual that comes with the machine what the oil requirements are. (API classification SG, SH, SJ etc,) I have several different oils on the shelf and they all meet one or more of the requirements. Two of them are 5-40 diesel oils. I also have oil analysis done on my diesel. I have had three done with three different oils. All three performed very well. Friction modifiers are added to oil to increase disk friction. Energy conserving is a sales ploy that means the viscosity of the oil is thinner thus it takes less oil pump HP to run. 0-40, 5-40, 5-30 etc. will conserve energy when compared to 15-40. Later! Frank
You are totally wrong, the US military had synthetic oil developed for jet engines (still the primary use for the stuff) and Amsoil didn't have squat to do with it. They ran in and tried to corner the civilian market when there was really no need for it in everyday use. Actually it is not done with lowering viscosity but making the oil slicker so as not to cause the drag thru the engine while being pumped and lets the engine parts mover easier with less drag. All the things done by synthetics by the way, plus synthetic is major resistant to heat breakdown (one of two major reasons oil doesn't last).
Posted by: Bear4570
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Originally posted by: frankblum43
I have never been totally wrong but on occasion I have been partly wrong. Amsoil was the first to market Synthetic oil to the general public. Slicker and thinner. Low pour point and a higher flash point were the two things that helped me decide to use synthetic. I didn't realize my post was going under a microscope. I will go away and let you have this forum all to yourself. Later! Frank
You made it sound like Amsoil developed synthetic oil and it just ain't so and if you are above being corrected when you are wrong, maybe you better go elsewhere and sulk. And at 2 post you don't have a clue.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: frankblum43
Bear this is where I am coming from when I made my statement about Amsoil.
Actually Lt. Col. Albert J. Amatuzio using his experience with the first jet plane synthetic oil formulated a 100% synthetic motor oil.
Jack Arotta, a Duluth Minnesota businessman was the first guy to put it in a brand new car, a 1966 Ford Station Wagon.
Actually, for more than a year Jack had been putting a variety of Al's synthetic formulations in his previous cars, so he did not feel that he was putting his vehicle at serious risk. After several more years of fine tuning his formulation, AMZOIL (Amatuzio-oil) was created and became the first 100% synthetic diester based engine oil to pass the API sequence tests and receive API qualification in 1972.
The following year Mobil Oil began marketing the first PAO based engine oil overseas and in 1975 they began test marketing a synthetic PAO based synthetic in the U.S. called Mobil 1.
Now I am not an Amsoil dealer but do highly recommend it along with Mobil 1, Rotella, Redline, etc. Later! Frank
I knew most of what you just stated, but I have had several racing friends, actually competitors, one with an Amsoil sponsorship and all had higher than expected powerhead failures. Everyone running blended or factory synthetics did much better (myself included). Admittedly these were 2 stroke engines, but that makes me leery of aftermaket oils as the engine manufactures make sure their oils pass the ratings test everytime, while passing within 3 tries still gives the aftermarket guys the rating. Just to give you an idea of my experience. I was a factory certified mech for a long time and a racer ( driver/mechanic and owner/driver/mechanic) a lot of years. I also was a 2 time National High Points Champ and set 3 speed records, all done with only minor sponsorship and doing all the wrenching.
Posted by: duckdawg
What oil is everybody running in their Cats? I have always bought the stuff from my dealer, just wondering what everybody else does? Not sure that is worth the extra bucks. Anyone got an opinion?
Posted by: duckdawg
I was thinking about switching to the synthetic myself. My dealer recommended staying with the regular. I would think the synthetic would be better and might even help the engine run cooler. You might be able to verify this Bear.
Posted by: duckdawg
I am not doubting that. I am switching over tomorrow night. Thanks for the input.
Posted by: scooter1967
after asking my AC dealer about what oil to use he suggested a synthetic oil even if it is the first oil change. th w warranty would still be fine.
i know with polaris i always had synthetic and worked great.
tons and tons of miles before an oil change.
if you have a synthetic for an automobile it is around 7000 miles before change and not 3000 miles
Posted by: mywifesquad
Quote
Originally posted by: 4FITTY
I wouldnt use amsoil for my weedeater it flat out SUCKS buy some Klotz or Caster 927 leave the snake oil for the diehard IDIOTS
Could you be a little more specific than to say it "SUCKS". What dont you like about Amsoil? I notice the 2 oils you recomend are synthetic "snake oils " too. What makes them any better than Amsoil? I use Torco GP7 as a premix in all my 2 strokes and have never siezed a engine or fouled a plug. But that doesnt make others oils SUCK.
And are you calling me a idiot?
Or was that meant for some one else here?
I use Amsoil 10-40 motorcycle oil in my KTM. BR>
I guess that makes me a idiot. BR>
I gotta go tell the wife she has been right all these years.
Posted by: mywifesquad
Quote
Originally posted by: frankblum43
Bear this is where I am coming from when I made my statement about Amsoil.
Actually Lt. Col. Albert J. Amatuzio using his experience with the first jet plane synthetic oil formulated a 100% synthetic motor oil.
Jack Arotta, a Duluth Minnesota businessman was the first guy to put it in a brand new car, a 1966 Ford Station Wagon.
Actually, for more than a year Jack had been putting a variety of Al's synthetic formulations in his previous cars, so he did not feel that he was putting his vehicle at serious risk. After several more years of fine tuning his formulation, AMZOIL (Amatuzio-oil) was created and became the first 100% synthetic diester based engine oil to pass the API sequence tests and receive API qualification in 1972.
The following year Mobil Oil began marketing the first PAO based engine oil overseas and in 1975 they began test marketing a synthetic PAO based synthetic in the U.S. called Mobil 1.
Now I am not an Amsoil dealer but do highly recommend it along with Mobil 1, Rotella, Redline, etc. Later! Frank
Thanks for the input Frank, and welcome to the forum!
Posted by: trailcrawler
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Originally posted by: Hoopie
Amsoil makes a good oil also that is cheaper. just make sure you get the correct oil if you have a manual or not. Manual will need a wet clutch oil.
shoudn't you use a wet clutch oil anyway? my 04-500 auto has a centrifigul clutch (the same as my 99 wolverine-manual) that is open to the crankcase and oiling system of the motor. this clutch then drives the shaft that then in turn drives the priminary belt clutch
Posted by: Cattywompus
My dealer is better than your dealer : ) My dealer told me to switch to synth after my 2nd oil change, I did and it runs alot better.
Posted by: petroleumboy
As a mechanic I wouldn't recommend running synthetic oil in a new machine. Valves need to seat properly, rings need to be worked in, all of which doesn't happen as quickly with synthetics. Most new vehicles don't leave the factory with synthetic oil as it inhibits proper break-in unless run for much longer durations. I ran my 650 V2 for about 400 miles before making the switch to synthetic (Amsoil 0W40 4 stroke) and have been very happy.
Just my 2 cents!
Posted by: petroleumboy
Since we are incredibly off topic already, I will join in the fray. I am actually a huge fan of the Amsoil product. I run it in every vehicle I own and feel it is the best stuff out there. In my Dodge diesel I run Amsoil and I just changed oil for the first time in a year and a half last month. When I drained my last oil, it had been run for about 39000 km. Instead of following the manufacturers recommended drain intervals, I take samples of my oil and send it to a lab for analysis (and change oil filters every 3 months). I took a year and a half and 39000 km before the Amsoil had broke down enough that it was worth changing it. Other synthetics i've done this with as well, but all other oils were due to be changed by closer to 25000 km. I've got the sampling records to prove it.
Keep in mind that Artic Cat is not an oil producer, or refiner. There oil is refined by one of the other major refiners and is repackaged with their label. With that said, I believe the majore reason Arctic Cat puts their label on a quart of oil is to make a profit. They find an oil that is acceptable for their machines, put their label on it, and double the price.
Cheers
Posted by: Theshonk
Back in the late 70&39;s early 80&39;s Amsoil made their pitch to the company I worked for. We had hundreds of pieces of rolling stock. The potential savings was huge. We had our research center perform testing etc. Bottom line Amsoil colossal claims had no legs.
Shonk
Posted by: Theshonk
{{Keep in mind that Artic Cat is not an oil producer, or refiner}}
Amsoil and AC have something in common
Amsoil buys its synthetic base from Mobil Oil Company. And Mobil is the ONLY refiner of truly Synthetic oil base. Not hydro cracked Petroleum synthetic. So at the base of it everyone that uses a true synthetic starts with Mobil base. Amsol, Redline etc. All Mobil base. The difference is the additives and varies by what the application is and manufactures requirements. I agree with Bear especially in today&39;s world of complying with government&39;s countless requirements. Amsoil must blend a generic oil (cookie cutter approach) thus one of the factors in their lower cost.
Shonk
Posted by: Theshonk
Seems to me that Amsoil has more people selling than they have customers. Their marketing must be similar to Amway.
Shonk
Posted by: Hoopie
Amsoil makes a good oil also that is cheaper. just make sure you get the correct oil if you have a manual or not. Manual will need a wet clutch oil.
Posted by: Hoopie
you would be correct. THe amsoil 0w40 is for wet clutches and a lot of people use that in the cats with great results.
heres a link to check out
http://www.arcticchat.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15239&st=15
Posted by: Hoopie
That was a long time ago! 25 years! I think oil companies have come a long ways since then.
Posted by: Hoopie
"Keep in mind that Artic Cat is not an oil producer, or refiner. There oil is refined by one of the other major refiners and is repackaged with their label. With that said, I believe the majore reason Arctic Cat puts their label on a quart of oil is to make a profit. They find an oil that is acceptable for their machines, put their label on it, and double the price. "
Well said and that is true with all the oils ex. polaris, yamaha, honda, etc... and I have personaly found amsoil to work the best in all my 5 vehicles.
Posted by: Hoopie
I beleive they do test the oil they put there name on it to find it satisfactory for them but that doesnt mean its the only oil that works for it. If that was the case they would have to supply you the oil for the oil changes.
I used arctic cat oil for my break in service and have no problems with it and I am sure its a good oil for it but that doesnt mean im going to spend twice the cost of an oil change when another oil will perform just as well. I talked to the mechanics frequently at a dealer I got my polaris and kawaski and yamaha at and they tell me they put Amsoil oil in all there oil changes when do maintanence for there customers. I beleive the most important thing is not the name on the oil its matching the oil viscosity for correct temperature and the correct additives with what is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle and that includes leaving out certain additives also like "energy conserving".
Posted by: Hoopie
On "energy conserving" am i referring to non synthetic blends of oils.
Posted by: Hoopie
Thank you JKB.
Posted by: Hoopie
"I wouldnt use amsoil for my weedeater it flat out SUCKS buy some Klotz or Caster 927 leave the snake oil for the diehard IDIOTS "
I liked Klotz oil also for two strokes but once I switched to Amsoil dominator mixed at 50 to 1 I stoped fouling plugs on my 86 honda 250r. Not to mention it ran much better. I mixed klotz at 32 to 1. each to its own though, as long as your happy with it and nothing breaks "who cares!"
Posted by: frankblum43
Like them or not Amsoil pioneered and produced synthetic oil in this country long before anyone else including Mobil. I have run several brands of synthetic in most everything I have owned since 1988. I have never had a problem and don't expect to. It tells you in the little manual that comes with the machine what the oil requirements are. (API classification SG, SH, SJ etc,) I have several different oils on the shelf and they all meet one or more of the requirements. Two of them are 5-40 diesel oils. I also have oil analysis done on my diesel. I have had three done with three different oils. All three performed very well. Friction modifiers are added to oil to increase disk friction. Energy conserving is a sales ploy that means the viscosity of the oil is thinner thus it takes less oil pump HP to run. 0-40, 5-40, 5-30 etc. will conserve energy when compared to 15-40. Later! Frank
Posted by: frankblum43
I have never been totally wrong but on occasion I have been partly wrong. Amsoil was the first to market Synthetic oil to the general public. Slicker and thinner. Low pour point and a higher flash point were the two things that helped me decide to use synthetic. I didn't realize my post was going under a microscope. I will go away and let you have this forum all to yourself. Later! Frank
Posted by: frankblum43
Bear this is where I am coming from when I made my statement about Amsoil.
Actually Lt. Col. Albert J. Amatuzio using his experience with the first jet plane synthetic oil formulated a 100% synthetic motor oil.
Jack Arotta, a Duluth Minnesota businessman was the first guy to put it in a brand new car, a 1966 Ford Station Wagon.
Actually, for more than a year Jack had been putting a variety of Al's synthetic formulations in his previous cars, so he did not feel that he was putting his vehicle at serious risk. After several more years of fine tuning his formulation, AMZOIL (Amatuzio-oil) was created and became the first 100% synthetic diester based engine oil to pass the API sequence tests and receive API qualification in 1972.
The following year Mobil Oil began marketing the first PAO based engine oil overseas and in 1975 they began test marketing a synthetic PAO based synthetic in the U.S. called Mobil 1.
Now I am not an Amsoil dealer but do highly recommend it along with Mobil 1, Rotella, Redline, etc. Later! Frank
Posted by: frankblum43
No championships in my resume but I have burned my share of snowmobile pistons. Usually as the result of running things too lean. We tried every brand of oil on the market back then. The absolute best we used was the Rabbit oil. It was clean. Didn't foul plugs as I remember. I think it was a 50 to 1. synthetic. I am not sure what after market oil is. I am pretty sure none of the ATV manufactures make oil. I would be surprised to learn that any of them have a chemical engineer on the payroll. They possible my have an oil designed just for them. I do know they all over price their oil. I will be running someone's synthetic in my new machine as soon as I rack up a few more hours. Later! Frank
Posted by: 4FITTY
I wouldnt use amsoil for my weedeater it flat out SUCKS buy some Klotz or Caster 927 leave the snake oil for the diehard IDIOTS
