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Posted by: ecorman1
My '02 AC 500i, is hard starting during cold weather also. It wasn't always hard starting but over time it's been touchy... I usually coke as 522 says and it starts up. Let her run 'til it starts to choke and go to half coke and it keeps up--most of the time. As I said, it wasn't always this cycle of events to start. Even in cold weather. Reading what you guys are saying has caused me to think back to when the quad was new and how well it did run to startup. One thing I did do was to pour one third of a bottle of fuel de-icer into a full tank of fuel once. That was because I had gone to Kentucky to ride with others and it got so cold there that most of the machines wouldn't start... Including the AC. At that time, I took the fuel line apart and blew it out with compressed air, waited for an hour and tried to start it again. Well, it was at least five degrees warmer outside and it did start. No more problems. But some of the other quads/dirt bikes wouldn't start. Now you've got me thinking about the coke plunger having water buildup. This make sense and I'm going to be looking at the prospect of that being the bug in the fuel system. I know guys that ride almost every manufacturer's machine that have this problem, come winter riding. I've never heard anyone say, they checked the coke plunger. All the rest have been tried with some success. Saturday will be a good day to test your theory. It's gonna be 8 degrees here in the morning. Sorry about the long winded post... Thanks everyone,
Chuck
Posted by: ecorman1
I'll keep that in mind Bear. Isopropyl! Thanks,
Chuck
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
One question - Do not all the later model cats have the fuel primer lever on the carb? I may have missed it but I didnt see any reference to the primer in any of these posts. My 500's have this (03-04) and they fire on the first power stroke even when -20.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
Quote
Originally posted by: Bear4570
Don't use Heet as it contains bad alcohol, ethyl and/or methyl alcohol. .
Huh? First - I would prefer to not use any alcohol in my fuel but there is little choice. But, I can't find anything that supports ethanol being a "bad" alcohol. There is plenty written regarding damage caused by methanol.
We have 10% mandated ethanol already in the gas - (don't all northern states?) we really don't need to add Heat or anything else.
Gas line anti-freezes are made from ethanol, methanol or isopropyl alcohol to absorb water in the fuel and keep it from freezing. That one little bottle of gas line anti-freeze is about 0.3% of the volume of a full gas tank. With a 10% ethanol blended fuel, it's 10% so it will absorb a lot more water and you'll never have to worry about a frozen fuel line.
You can use the 10% ethanol blended fuels anywhere you use regular unleaded fuel. It can be used in any lawn mower, snow plow, snowmobile, ATV and any other gas powered engine. There may be some carburetor adjustment needed
Unlike Methanol, Ethanol is a very safe fuel, if you spill it it will not contaminate the ground water. If you drink it, you'll get drunk. Although if you drink large quantities you will suffer liver damage. In fact, if you drink just about any alcoholic beverage, you're drinking ethanol in one form or another.
Water is soluble in ethanol, otherwise you would have to shake your beer to mix the alcohol with the water, and we know what a mess that makes.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
Obviously there is a saturation point where neither additive will absorb or suspend any more water.
Posted by: NORYCE
My ac650 barely starts when it is cold, dealer has worked on the choke twice. His mechanic flipped out when I brought it back the third time and said he could not fix it. When the choke is "off" I think it is still closed slightly in the carb. Any help?
Posted by: SPD522
I don't have a problem with my 650. I put the choke on all the way, give it a bit of throttle and crank. Usually fires up in 3-4 turns. Idle is a little rough at first. I have to let it idle with the choke on for a minute and then gradually take it off. If I don't it will stall but fires back up. It warms up pretty quick and runs fine after that.
It sits out in my non insulated storage building all the time, out of the weather but no heat.
Posted by: SPD522
Although this is the first winter my Cat has been in, I will probably do as Ecorman 1 says and pour in a bottle of Heet in the tank. I do put some StaBil in my gas cans and any gas operated implements during the winter too. It will probably be a trial and error thing.
Posted by: SPD522
Well, with all this hard starting talk, I went out to the shed and tried to start my AC650. Last time it was started was Dec. 26. Outside temp was about 15 F. I put the choke on full and started cranking. It took maybe 4-5 seconds of cranking and it fired right up. I had to let it run for a while to warm up but it was ready to ride in 3-4 minutes.
A whole lot less time to warm up than my Ford Diesel so I am satisfied with it's cold weather starting. Maybe I got one with the carbs set right from the factory.
Posted by: Bluethumb
Just a little note, last night we had my bud's 650 apart, looking for a fuel leak. We found that the choke plunger on the rear carb was stuck in its' bore, wouldn't move at all, and had the carb stuck with the choke partially on. This allowed it to idle off of that carb, and a little bit of adjustment on the idle adjustment screw would compensate for the front carb. . Once we took the choke plungers out, we could see that it was flooding the float bowl, then running down the choke cable and dripping out at the junction. Also, we took the throttle cable housing off, and with the idle adjustment screw turned all the way in (for fast idle) it was barely moving the throttle plates. We had to bend the tab to make it contact the adjustment screw at half way in, so we had some kind of idle adjustment.
After that, we got it started and noticed that the carb throttles were opening at different rates. The rear carb was opening first, followed by the front carb. You could see the rear diaphram moving while the front was still. They SHOULD move the same amount, simultaneously. We synchronized the throttle plates so that they opened together using the adjustment screw in between the carbs, and now had adjustment for idle speed as well. I don't think these carbs were set up from the factory, or even looked at prior to delivery, they just set the idle adjustment screw to get a half decent idle and left it at that. Really, you guys should check your carb set-up, I'm willing to bet you guys have some, if not all, symptoms. That rear cylinder was burning rich from day one, with the choke stuck on. He did notice a slight bog too, which is gone now, and the throttle response is a lot better.
The choke plungers might be sticking in their bore, causing the motor to run rich and carbon itself up. Your carbs really need to be looked at, and set up if necassary. Since we've fixed them, he's hardly had to use the choke at all, it fires right up as soon as you hit the starter. The choke is also easier to operate, so if you have a stiff choke lever, this could be your problem.
Posted by: Bluethumb
http://www.brownsleisureworld.com/Parts/ATV/2005/2005ATV500FISAutomaticTransmission/CARBURETOR.htm
Try this link for a breakdown of the Keihin carb. This one is off the 500, but it's the same principle.
Posted by: Bluethumb
Thought the 650 used 32mm carbs, and the 500 used 34's or 36's, but I've been wrong before. In any case, you guys with the 650's really need to check them out closely. The one we adjusted is running like a top now, better than new.
Posted by: Bluethumb
My 400 is really cold blooded as well. It'll turn over and fire just fine, but it does NOT want to idle until completely warmed up. I had it out in a blizzard yesterday, and it ran fine while moving, but if I stopped, I had to feather the throttle to keep it running. Even turning up the idle adjust only had marginal results. Once out of the wind, and working it a bit, it warmed up and ran fine. I found that once the motor was broke in, it started a lot easier, and I run synthetic oil, which also helps a lot. I've seen a fix for this problem, AC has a richer "starter jet" which should solve some of these problems. It's fine to heat the motor with an electric heater, in your shed, but it doesn't do you a lot of good when you're out on the trail.
Posted by: Bluethumb
What's up Tommy, them photo's are old, I guess it's time to update them eh? That mount got snapped off by a tree, it looked H.D but it was only made of plexiglass. I was going to make another mount from steel, but had a better idea. My speedo is on rubber mounts, there's apin that goes down through the center, a washer, and a clip. I just took the clip out, ditched the washers, and put the light base in its' place, then put the pins back in, a lot better set up. I'll update some day.
We're screwed here now, we got 2 feet of snow here overnight and it's blowing all over the place. I can get though about 18", after that, I need a plow to get the snow from underneath the skidplate, or I high center. But, I'll still try, better than shovelling! I don't see a problem with your bikes starting, unless the batteries are low. Mine has moisture in the starter, and it doesn't want to engage when it's froze. Pull started it yesterday, until the starter got warmed up. Guess I'll have to take it off and clean it up. Do you like the auto's? Mine next bike will be auto, no more shifting gears for this cat.
Posted by: Bluethumb
Tommy, I think your battery is toast. You can try to add electrolyte to it, and charge it up again, but you may be better off with a new one. I don't know how reliable it would be in the future. Can't see the wireless system drawing on the battery when it's not being used. I find it funny that it was dry, it may have not been filled properly when it was put in the bike.
I have mixed feelings about those battery maintainers. They're putting a constant charge on it, whether it needs it or not. If it's hot, the water in the battery will evaporate off faster than if it was just sitting. I would just disconnect one of the terminals if I wasn't running it weekly. Make sure it's fully charged, should be 12.5Vdc or so. Thanks for the reply on the auto's, that will be my next choice. Cheers
Posted by: Bluethumb
It's really easy to remove the carbs on them, laughable actually. Take the glove compartment off, lift the air filter ,then there's 8 screws that hold the carb throats in there, and a couple of seals. The bolts are loctited in there, so I'd have some before starting. After the bolts are out, it's 4 clips and off comes the air box. There may be a rubber hose attached to it, can't remember. Take the side panels off. Just look at them, there's 2 coolant lines coming in between the carbs, they have plastic fittings, so be carefull. Take them off. Take the fuel lines off, plug them with golf tees. Lift the carbs up, turn them over. You'll see brass pieces, take the screws out and pull toward the back of the bike. The choke plungers have "O" rings on them, they should slide out. They should slide freely in the bores.
Notice the linkage between the carbs, that's what we used to get them synchronized. Try your cable, they should slide easily. I don't think it's necassary to remove the float bowls, unless you suspect a problem with levels, or dirt. I would open the drains and see if anything comes out.
My buddies bike is running like new, actually better than that. It starts most of the time with no choke, even when it's -15C. I think the sticking choke was the reason for a lot of the problems. It looks complicated, but once you do it, it's easy. We didn't separate the carbs, they came off as 1 unit, and we kept them that way. Hope I helped you out, cheers
Posted by: Bluethumb
I don't know if you dodged a bullet there or not, that bulge doesn't sound too promising. I'd run it anyway. The voltage could be good sitting there, but as soon as you apply a heavy load, such as starting cold, or winching, it might die a lot sooner than it should. Still, I would use it until it totally quits.
Posted by: Bluethumb
Tommy, the battery voltage is fine the way it is now, but you're looking for a big drop when a load is applied. When you start your bike or use your winch, it may not recover as fast as it should, you'll notice dim headlights if it's starting to lose its' charge during loaded conditions. Try putting it in the bike and running it.
Posted by: swampyjunior
Just discoverd that my 400i carborator had the choke sticking and not moving fully in either direction. Noticed this as it became hard to start and has alway been very easy. I have been adjusting the mixture screws as it has been running rich and backfiring especially after I let off the throttle.
So my daughter and I removed the carb and took it apart and found the choke was not fully functioning. It had a white crusty buildup from water in the fuel I guess. We cleaned it all up and put it back together, readjusted the mixture screws and no more problems.
Definitely would check the carb settings and the choke operation. (as well as the air filter)
Engine needs Fuel, Air, Spark to run if one is missing or not correctly set it won't start.
SJ
Posted by: swampyjunior
I JUst wanted to add that I just started my wife's TRV after is has been sitting outside for almost 2 months with the same gas, with no additives in weather from -5 to 30 degrees and I hit the primmer lever 4 times, turned on the choke on, and it fired right up. I let it warm up and my daughter and I took it for a little spin to run the gas out of the tank. You guys had me worried about starting problems but guess its hit and miss with being cold blooded.
Also for a battery tender I purchased one of those solar cell battery tricke chargers to keep the battery for the the brakes charged on my 18ft car trailer and 34ft gooseneck box trailer and have had good luck with them. I wonder if they could be used to keep an ATV battery charged? Or just remove then ATV battery, charge it and store it in the garage when the ATV is stored for entended time periods.
Spring might be just around the corner. I guess the ole ground hog will be out in a few weeks to let us know for sure huh?
SJ
Posted by: swampyjunior
Sorry Mr Tommy, I didn't see that. My eyes don't work as well as they used to. I have had good luck with the ones I bought from Harbor Freight. Not sure if the ones I got have a built in voltage regulator or not to keep from over charging. I know they make them with them, guess I will have to check mine out.
Maybe even get some for the ATV's.
Also, if anyone has to replace their battery, its my opinion that its a waste of money to purchase a sealed battery. They last just as long as a regular battery but cost way more $.
SJ
Posted by: cattman
Bluethumb- is your friends 650 still running good after the carb clean/rebuild ?. My 650 has some of the same symtoms that you described. Stiff choke lever, rich smelling exhaust, bobbling off the start with a slight miss, hard starting- especially hot restarts. I think it must be a sticking choke issue. Tried other stuff as far as checking plugs, pilot adjustment and such. Any carb removal tips Bluethumb ? Do you have to totally remove the dual carb setup ? Thanks for any guidance.
Posted by: cattman
Thanks for the help Bluethumb. I'm probably going to have to take them right out because I have to replace the pilot jets/screws. I have mangled the screws so bad from all the adjusting that the brass slot is gone and barely turns. I figured if I'm going to take them apart that far, I may as well replace them. Hopefully I don't have to drill them out. Thanks again !
Posted by: Bear4570
Can't help you with your 650, but my '05 400 with auto choke has started everytime in as cold as 16 degree weather. No fuss and no problem. I prefer manual chokes but this system has worked flawlessly. Is the '04 650 really a choke valve system or an enrichment system like the '05? I mean either sytem is pretty simple and any mechanic that cann't adjust one probably isn't much of a mechanic. Find a different dealer, or if you have any mechanical ability get a shop manual and do it yourself.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: Bluethumb
http://www.brownsleisureworld.com/Parts/ATV/2005/2005ATV500FISAutomaticTransmission/CARBURETOR.htm
Try this link for a breakdown of the Keihin carb. This one is off the 500, but it's the same principle.
The 650 runs 2 of 500 carbs. So it's not the same principle it is the same, exactly.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: Bluethumb
Thought the 650 used 32mm carbs, and the 500 used 34's or 36's, but I've been wrong before. In any case, you guys with the 650's really need to check them out closely. The one we adjusted is running like a top now, better than new.
The only difference is the throttle bore size and jetting, but the carbs are exactly the same in construction and what works for teardown and reassembly on one will work for the other.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: hondabuster
Alot of times, the problem can be traced back to an incorrectly adjusted mixture screw, or two, in the case of the 650. They are usually adjusted in a warm, dealership, and when its outside in the cold...its too lean.
If the primer dooesnt get it going, or it stumbles and pops, when cold, give the mixture screws a 1/4 to 1/2 turn richer (out). It makes a world of difference.
Good advice.
Posted by: Bear4570
Don't use Heet as it contains bad alcohol, ethyl and/or methyl alcohol. All alcohol will absorb water but the bad alcohols have two nasty habits. First the bad alcohols are very corrosive and will eat the metal parts and hoses in your fuel system. Second the bad alcohols will only hold a certain amount of water and if there is more water that they can hold, the 3 fluids seperate out into layers. Bottom layer is water (where is your fuel pick up, on the bottom); then the alcohol and then the gas. Bet your engine doesn't run well on water or alcohol. Isopropyl also hold water but any water it can not absorb it just ignores and keeps itself and and the water it is holding in solution with the gas. You end up with a very small amount of water in your tanks sump. Also Isopropyl is not corrosive. Never use any product with the bad alcohol and unless Heet has changed it uses the bad stuff. This I learned as a marine mechanic where you deal with water in the fuel more than anywhere else. Ay the manufactures schools on year we tested this and it is true.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: weez440
what do you mean thanx bear i am the one who brought the whole isopropyl thing to attention lol j/k hr>
I think he meant about making sure that the Heet product doesn't have ethyl or methyl alcohols in it. Because they sure did last time I checked. Ok, I just checked and Heet now has "Iso-HEET" which has isopropyl in it and comes in a red bottle. The Yellow one appears to has Methyl in it. So Catterman is wrong, use the red bottle in all cases, the yellow is bad.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
Quote
Originally posted by: Bear4570
Don't use Heet as it contains bad alcohol, ethyl and/or methyl alcohol. .
Huh? First - I would prefer to not use any alcohol in my fuel but there is little choice. But, I can't find anything that supports ethanol being a "bad" alcohol. There is plenty written regarding damage caused by methanol.
We have 10% mandated ethanol already in the gas - (don't all northern states?) we really don't need to add Heat or anything else.
Gas line anti-freezes are made from ethanol, methanol or isopropyl alcohol to absorb water in the fuel and keep it from freezing. That one little bottle of gas line anti-freeze is about 0.3% of the volume of a full gas tank. With a 10% ethanol blended fuel, it's 10% so it will absorb a lot more water and you'll never have to worry about a frozen fuel line.
You can use the 10% ethanol blended fuels anywhere you use regular unleaded fuel. It can be used in any lawn mower, snow plow, snowmobile, ATV and any other gas powered engine. There may be some carburetor adjustment needed
Unlike Methanol, Ethanol is a very safe fuel, if you spill it it will not contaminate the ground water. If you drink it, you'll get drunk. Although if you drink large quantities you will suffer liver damage. In fact, if you drink just about any alcoholic beverage, you're drinking ethanol in one form or another.
Water is soluble in ethanol, otherwise you would have to shake your beer to mix the alcohol with the water, and we know what a mess that makes.
Please reread the following again. "Second the bad alcohols will only hold a certain amount of water and if there is more water that they can hold, the 3 fluids seperate out into layers. Bottom layer is water (where is your fuel pick up, on the bottom); then the alcohol and then the gas. Bet your engine doesn't run well on water or alcohol. Isopropyl also hold water but any water it can not absorb it just ignores and keeps itself and and the water it is holding in solution with the gas. You end up with a very small amount of water in your tanks sump. Also Isopropyl is not corrosive. Never use any product with the bad alcohol and unless Heet has changed it uses the bad stuff."
"Ok, I just checked and Heet now has "Iso-HEET" which has isopropyl in it and comes in a red bottle. The Yellow one appears to has Methyl in it. So Catterman is wrong, use the red bottle in all cases, the yellow is bad. "
Also ethanol is corrosive to you hoses and metal parts of your fuel system. I have seen what it does in carbs and hoses. All the marine manufactures will not sell anything but isopropyl. All alcohol wiill hold water, the stuff in your medicene chest is isopropyl mixed with 30% water. The use of ethanol in gas is because it's cheap, not because good. If you thik drinking it good for you, you need to do some research on the latest infomation.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: Nats
Quote
Originally posted by: Nats
What do you think of using Marvel mystery oil in gas tank? I have heard it is very good for cleaning the fuel system and can keep the H2O levels down like good dry gas.
Anyone have info on the Mystery oil? also I see a post stating they using rubbing alcohol in thier tanks? Is that ok for the system? Sounds like a good cheap alternative to the $3 + cleaners and anti freeze products I am using now.hr>
I heard about the Myestry oil deal many years ago, but nothing recently as there are really good products out there now. Thw trouble with rubbing alcohol is it is leady 30% water bfore you put it in your tank, I think not a good idea. All rubbing alcohol is is isopropyl alcohol with water added as a thinner. Using the automotive or marine isopropyl alcohol produces would be a wiser way to go. The automotive products are cheaper, NAPA used to have an isoproyl product that was labeled 99.99% isopropyl alcohol. I haven't looked to see if the still have it, but it worked super. I bought it by the case for the 3 boats I had at the time.
Posted by: Bear4570
What they don't tell you as when there is to much water for the methanol to hold it will seperate out. Test it you self. Get a quart jar and fill it half way with gas. Now pour in a table spoon of Heet. Now slowly add water. maybe a teaspoon at a time and shake it up to stir eeything up after each teaspoon. Keep adding water and when there is to much you will have you 3 layers. This was a demonstration done by both OMC (Johnson and Evinrude) and Mercury Marine in their Tech schools. If the fuel has ethanol in it skip the Heet and just add water. l
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
Obviously there is a saturation point where neither additive will absorb or suspend any more water.
Yes, except Isopropyl does not dump all the water it has absorbed out into the tank as water in a layer then the alcohol in seperate layer, seperate from the fuel. The isopropyl remains mixed with the gas and the water it is holding does to, so that the only water in your tank is the stuff added in addition to what was absorbed. Ethanol and methynol don't remain in solution with the gas, but dump all the water it was holding back out to be the bottom layer with an alcohol as the second layer and then the gas. That is a very bad situation and can screw up your carb and even make your engine not run. I have seen it and it isn't pretty and never cheap to fix permanently.
Posted by: Bear4570
I have never complained about hard starting on either of my rigs. I keep fresh gas in them and do preventitive maintenance so they will start everytime I want to ride. Or need tostart, as a couple of times during the last snow had to make runs to the store to make the wife happy with dinner.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: HelloNewman
So if I read this correctly, if I add no Heet or isopropyl of any sort; any moisture in my fuel will sink to the bottom of my fuel cell and the actual fuel will float on top? Is this an accurate statement?
Yes! Ever seen a little bit of gas or oil dropped on the water. You get a sheen on the surface because water is heavier than gas or oil and they don't mix together. The alcohol mixes with both, if there isn't to much water.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: HelloNewman
Sort of like the Exxon Valdez effect, Now I see After having a hard time getting mine going in the cold, I changed my plugs (went one stage hotter, will change back in the summer) cleaned my air filter and those changes seemed to help a bunch as it started much easier. I wanted to know where I stood so I took it from its heated enviroment into a garage that was about 45-50 degrees colder (from +40 to -5 Farenheit), at the time it had a 1/3 tank of 2 month old fuel in it; which I feel should not have been an issue however it wouldn't start, oh I'm sure I could have dicked around with it and got it running but that's not what I want, not to mention the wear and tear on the starter. I want what everybody wants...choke on, turn key, Cat runs. So now after reading about the water factor I have added some Iso-Heet and filled it up with fresh fuel, I will keep you posted (like anybody really cares I'm still waiting to hear back from the person that started this thread, NORYCE if your out there how is yours starting? L8R,
Wayne
Fuel can go stale in as little as 3 week. Thanks oil companys for high price junk fuel. I have been putting fuel stablizer (Stabil) in my spare gas and in the tank each fill up after a ride. The cold means the fuel needs to be fresh and if it isn't or at least stabilized the hard starting results. When I top off old fuel with new I always use 92 octane because if the gas in the tank is weak then I want to boost it back up the at least regular octane level or higher. Sometimes running premium in the winter helps starting, but creates other problems.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: Nats
Fuel can go stale in as little as 3 week.
Is that right? my gas sits for a month or so at a time in the machine when I am not around to play and I never realized how bad this is...thought gas was good for much longer.
The 3 week number is put out by the Marine Manufactuers Assc. with info got from the Petroleum Institute. Depending on additives, alcohol content, grade of gas and temperature. I don't take any chances anymore. I've seen a fresh fulled tank in December without a stablizer and in May it would not even make the engine pop. It even smelled flat. A fuel stablizer is cheap and works very well. Never had gas that had stablizer in it, even after a whole year, not work. The gas of the 60's was able to last for about a year to 2 years as there was no alcohol to collect water and had lead in it not the strange cocktail of additives of today (thanks EPA) The high dollar gas of today is a far cry from the cheap, truely hi-preformance fuels of the 60's. I had a stock compression factory race motor from 1968 that ran great on the regular of the day. We stored it and then brought it back to run in an antique class. Burnt a piston first time out, with regular gas in 1995. Changed out piston and ran premium until got caught and disqualified for running to hot of a fuel.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: ArcticBrat
Well my cat dont like cold she starts great but it's after the bike is warm. Where I live there is alot of moisture in the air and this couses the carb to freeze then it does'nt like to idle. Wich really sucks when I'am trying to plow. My dealer said there is nothing much you can do other than buy a carb heater.I also had an 02 cat that did the same thing.
How cold is it? Sometimes the moisture is in the fuel and not the air. It's a real problem that the isopropyl alcohol will help, sometime. The fuel makeup can also be part of the problem, trying a different brand can make it better or worse. I have seen carb icing even above freezing. Has to do the air velocity and high moisture content, something boat engines deal with a lot.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: ArcticBrat
How cold is it? Sometimes the moisture is in the fuel and not the air. It's a real problem that the isopropyl alcohol will help, sometime. The fuel makeup can also be part of the problem, trying a different brand can make it better or worse. I have seen carb icing even above freezing. Has to do the air velocity and high moisture content, something boat engines deal with a lot.
Today was 16F but it happens in much warmer weather,I have tryed different brand fuel's plus isopropyl. Has anyone tried a carb warmer? Like I said I also had an 02 250 ac that did the same.
Actually a simple carb warmer can be made from a couple pieces of heat riser hose and some duct tape or silver insulation tape. You wrap one piece of hose around the exhaust pipe and tee the other into it and tape it up. The other end of the tee hose fits around the carb bowl and convection will move the heat up to the carb. A better way would be to duct the warm air into the air box. I'm sure you aren't out mud holing this time of year and just remove the hoses in the spring.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: Nats
OK this makes me mad....I live in NE PA and my buddies pull up on thier quads in 12 inches of snow ready to go and play. 1 Yamaha 660 1 Kawi 360 and an Arctic Cat 300 all these are 4x4. I open the shed and pull out my 2005 Arctic Cat 400 4x4 to show the boys my new toy! OK I do a safety check and all is good! Then it takes...hold on 30 minutes and many tries to crank over. This sucks! I tried many of the listed cold start hints and nothing worked...I felt silly. The boys go off and I miss out becuase the Cat is to cold? Seems like that engine warmers is worth the money in EGO saving alone!hr>
Just go out and fire up a small electric heater with a fan about a 1/2 hour to an hour before you plan to ride. Aim the thing at the engine with it setting on the floor. Heat rises and will warm the whole engine. My 2005 AC 400 4X4 starts fine in the cold, well at least down to 18 degrees. Not as easy as at 40 but no problem as long as the fat thumb stays off the throttle. Only used the heater trick on my 250, before I swapped out the shifter cable for linkage, the cable would get water in it and freeze.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: MrTommy
Well....... WE went out to start our Cats today and while my wife's started right up, MY battery was dead. D.E.A. D ! I looked in the battery and VIOLA, bone dry. I would think there had to be some kind of battery drain for that to happen. The only difference between mine and my wife's is that I installed a winch last year on mine. And it's one of those Ramsey wireless remote units (which I now think is a useless option and when we put a winch on my wife's machine later this year, it won't be wireless).
The sad part is, I just got two solar battery maintainers from eBay last week and part of today's project was to hang these two things on the fence (for access to the sun) to prevent dead batteries... Grrrrrrrrrrr......
So, do you guys think the problem is the winch, or can some other sinister problem be at the heart of this? I'm thinking of disconnecting the winch wires from the battery until spring when we ride all the time (if the winch is the problem). Can that 'radio' that sends/receives the remote signal be at fault?
I've got my battery on charge right now but I'm fearing that the complete dry-out may have killed it for good. Although once I jump started it and ran it for a while, it almost started on its own ("almost" being the key word here - ha). Before I hooked up the charger about a half hour later my multi-meter showed 11.7 volts in it. I've got my fingers crossed.hr>
MrTommy; There are 2 things that make a battery lose water. A crack in the case and overcharging. A draw on the battery will kill it, but not make the water disappear. When getting over charged the water gets boiled off, not the electolyte(the battery acid - H2SO4. The added concentration of the acid eats the lower part of the plates. Top that puppy off and slow charge it (no more than 5 amps) overnight, should end up at about 12.7 volts with the charger off. Should at least start the thing after that. If you haven't been charging the battery since you stopped riding, then you need to check your charging system on the engine. The rectifier or regulator could be bad. My policy is to go start and run them until warmed up every 2 weeks. That way the battery and all the controls and such get a work out, the oil get warmed up and dried out and the fuel system gets flushed because you ran the thing.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: swampyjunior
I JUst wanted to add that I just started my wife's TRV after is has been sitting outside for almost 2 months with the same gas, with no additives in weather from -5 to 30 degrees and I hit the primmer lever 4 times, turned on the choke on, and it fired right up. I let it warm up and my daughter and I took it for a little spin to run the gas out of the tank. You guys had me worried about starting problems but guess its hit and miss with being cold blooded.
Also for a battery tender I purchased one of those solar cell battery tricke chargers to keep the battery for the the brakes charged on my 18ft car trailer and 34ft gooseneck box trailer and have had good luck with them. I wonder if they could be used to keep an ATV battery charged? Or just remove then ATV battery, charge it and store it in the garage when the ATV is stored for entended time periods.
Spring might be just around the corner. I guess the ole ground hog will be out in a few weeks to let us know for sure huh?
SJ
Cold weather slows the breakdown of fuels because the molecules don't move as fast and they don't evaporate the additives out as easily. A maintainer type charger will work, but they need to be very low amperage and turn themselves on and off as the battery becomes fully charged.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: swampyjunior
Sorry Mr Tommy, I didn't see that. My eyes don't work as well as they used to. I have had good luck with the ones I bought from Harbor Freight. Not sure if the ones I got have a built in voltage regulator or not to keep from over charging. I know they make them with them, guess I will have to check mine out.
Maybe even get some for the ATV's.
Also, if anyone has to replace their battery, its my opinion that its a waste of money to purchase a sealed battery. They last just as long as a regular battery but cost way more $.
SJ
Agreed, the sealed batteries aren't worth the extra money.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: MrTommy
Swampy, in looking closely at the back of my solar chargers I see that they are the "Harbor Freight" type, or at least they say Harbor Freight on them. Also, in reading the docs it also says it send a trickle charge as long as there is light hitting the panel. I certainly don't think there is any sweat of an 'overcharge' with these things.
A very low amp trickle charge over a period of months with out any draw on the batteries can overcharge and slow "boil" the water away. You need to monitior the water level and voltage of the battery for about six weeks. If no water lose by then you should be OK. I put an unregulated trickle charger on a scooter we used at the races on winter and in the spring the battery was dry and no amount of water or charging helped. The unit charged at 100 milliamps or less, that's less than a 1/10 of an amp.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: pangborn83
what I have alwyas done for my motorcycle batteries is to use a christmas tree light timer set for 30 minutes and throw it out in the garage witha 2 amp trickle charger, never fried any batteries and seems to do the trick well, a short charge similar to starting the machine and just enough to keep it up to where it needs to be. And thanks bkcntyxplr for the idea of what to look for I will have to see tomorrow
Pangborn; Yeah, that would keep from over charging the battery and is probably easier on the battery than a trickle charger.
Posted by: Bear4570
Quote
Originally posted by: MrTommy
Well, if all goes according to plan (and after all, doesn't everything...?), we'll finally dig the gate out and get the ATV's out for rides every 2-3 weeks. They'll get well charged then, and I guess we can regulate the charging by periodically covering and uncovering the panels. What do you think.
You're news is not good news, Bear. I was hoping this would be a mindless solution to the battery thing. I've got 225 watts worth of solar panels on the roof of my travel trailer but they pump power through a regulator and the batteries are fine (even though I periodically check the water in them too).
Mr; Well the regulator is the key. They keep the system from over charging the batteries. The covering the panels and uncovering will work but keep covered about double the uncovered time. 1 day uncovered, 2 days covered or 3 days uncovered and a week covered.
If I can't ride for a while I just go down and start them up and let them run for 10 to 15 minutes, then call it good for a couple more weeks.
Posted by: Bear4570
MrTommy; The new avatar was a present from one of the guys I ride with. And I am the old man of the group.
Posted by: hondabuster
Alot of times, the problem can be traced back to an incorrectly adjusted mixture screw, or two, in the case of the 650. They are usually adjusted in a warm, dealership, and when its outside in the cold...its too lean.
If the primer dooesnt get it going, or it stumbles and pops, when cold, give the mixture screws a 1/4 to 1/2 turn richer (out). It makes a world of difference.
Posted by: hondabuster
Quote
Originally posted by: HelloNewman
Okay...looking at the link to the carb http://www.brownsleisureworld.com/Parts/ATV/2005/2005ATV500FISAutomaticTransmission/CARBURETOR.htm which screw would need to be turned out 1/4 -1/2 turn? I can tear a car engine to pieces and put it back together but when it comes to carbs, I want my fuel injection! Please give me a number for the proper screw, #16???
Yep...thats the one. And heres a guide to adjust it.
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/jetkit/
Or you can simply go 1/4 to 1/2 more right now. Remember to lean it back out when the temperature gets warmer, or itll be too rich.
Posted by: hondabuster
Heres the Heet FAQ website, for your questions on using heet.
http://www.goldeagle.com/heet/faqs_heet.asp
Posted by: Catterman
The Arctic Cat 400's are great for starting in the cold, -20 the other day and it fired right up with just using the choke.
However, I really long for EFI...
Posted by: Catterman
weez brings up a good point, it is alright to use the yellow heat bottle for the ATV's, but with the 2-stroke snowmobiles be sure you are using the RED heat bottle.
Posted by: Catterman
That was my point, many people put the yellow bottle of HEET in, I said it was alright to use with ATV, but as Bear pointed out maybe not the best, but when I had a frozen fuel line in my truck it sure did the trick. However, the RED one is new, and it the way to go now. It is even safe for 2-strokes.
Posted by: Catterman
Good point WhoDat, when I lived in MN I ran nothing but Ethanol and put over 200,000 on two different cars. Up here in AK all we have is the cheap stuff...
Posted by: MrTommy
Back in '03 when we bought our brandy new '04's, I had my wife drive the truck (pulling the trailer with our new toys) while I read the manual cover to cover. I love reading docs on new stuff (no matter what it is). I thought I had it all dialed in. It wasn't 'til much later during another read that I discovered the part in the owner's manual about a 'primer' on the carb. Meantime, we struggled with hard cold weather starts (with the usual carping about why something with the name "Arctic Cat" was so hard to start in 'arctic' weather). Then, while sitting in the warm house with an appropriate warm adult beverage, I was re-reading the manual just for grins and THERE IT WAS! The "NOTE" on page 46 about the primer pump and using it at "0" degrees.
So the next time out (and it wasn't "0" degrees, but darned cold anyway...), we tried this pump action and what a difference. They fired right up. This is not to say they run great right at start-up, but at least we can get them running. And like someone mentioned somewhere else, once they're up and running (and warm), the rest of the day they run great, even after shutting them down for a while.
So once again (like bear said in another post), reading the Owner's Manual does have its benefits. In my case, I just have to remember what I read... Duh.
Posted by: MrTommy
I checked out your photos Bluethumb. Cool light setup you've got there - and HEAVY DUTY too! If you ever crash and burn, that mount will be the only thing left - ha.
We're going out today to try to fire up our 400's for the first time in a couple months. We would have been out riding sooner but we got a ton of snow around here and the stuff froze at about a foot deep in front of the gate that leads to the back yard. It's gonna take a lot of work to chip and shovel the stuff away enough to open the gate. Had I known how much snow was coming and how deep it was going to be (and how long it was going to last) I would have at least gotten the pickup out before it was too late.
I put StaBil in the gas but did not (Bear talked about this too late for me to benefit) let the engine run and suck it through the carbs. So we may be in for a 'trial' when we go out today. I did just buy two of those solar panel battery maintainers off eBay and they came in the mail on Saturday (while I was gone) so plugging them in is also on today's list of things-to-do.
Now that we've got over 1000 miles on both of them they start, run, and 'haul butt' much better than when they were new, but they always seem to be tough to get started at first. Once running and warmed up, they run like tops the rest of the day.
Posted by: MrTommy
Ooops. I posted a message before noticing that there was a second page to this. Then I couldn't figure out how to delete it so I've just "edited" it by putting this stuff up instead of the message I just placed, which dealt with an old, out-of-date post.
DUH!!!
Posted by: MrTommy
Gee Bluethumb, now I'm disappointed... I thought that mount was steel. It sure looked like it in the photos.
We LOVE the autos. We initially intended to buy 'shifters' but my wife balked at that, and when the sales guy put her on an auto and she drove it around, that settled it for her. So I decided to see what all the hoopla was about and damned if I didn't instantly fall in love with it too. All our cars are shifters (92 Explorer, 83 Honda beater car) and I drive a truck for a living. An auto shift is verrrrry welcome. We're strictly recreational riders so lack of stump pulling power is of no consequence.
Yeah, sounds like you're in a world of hurt up there with all that snow. Good luck. We just decided to take advantage of the fact that it's just not getting warm lately by defrosting our top loading freezer. We took all the food out and put it in the back yard (in metal milk crates covered with insulated blankets and held down with bricks) because it's still 19 degrees. Better now than during the summer when it's in the 90's.
But, when we go out to start up the Cats, that might be a whole other situation.
Posted by: MrTommy
Well....... WE went out to start our Cats today and while my wife's started right up, MY battery was dead. D.E.A. D ! I looked in the battery and VIOLA, bone dry. I would think there had to be some kind of battery drain for that to happen. The only difference between mine and my wife's is that I installed a winch last year on mine. And it's one of those Ramsey wireless remote units (which I now think is a useless option and when we put a winch on my wife's machine later this year, it won't be wireless).
The sad part is, I just got two solar battery maintainers from eBay last week and part of today's project was to hang these two things on the fence (for access to the sun) to prevent dead batteries... Grrrrrrrrrrr......
So, do you guys think the problem is the winch, or can some other sinister problem be at the heart of this? I'm thinking of disconnecting the winch wires from the battery until spring when we ride all the time (if the winch is the problem). Can that 'radio' that sends/receives the remote signal be at fault?
I've got my battery on charge right now but I'm fearing that the complete dry-out may have killed it for good. Although once I jump started it and ran it for a while, it almost started on its own ("almost" being the key word here - ha). Before I hooked up the charger about a half hour later my multi-meter showed 11.7 volts in it. I've got my fingers crossed.
Posted by: MrTommy
As an aside, the battery maintainer is 'supposed' to have a regulator that keeps it from overcharging the battery. But we'll see.
Posted by: MrTommy
I can't recall if I'd ever checked the battery fluid level after we bought the Cats late in '03. I foolishly assumed the dealer had checked all the necessary fluid levels and tire air. Boy was I wrong! I remember him saying the tires were all around 5 psi. NOT. They ranged from 3 to 11 psi. That should have been my first hint.
Anyway, I'm still charging my battery (at 2 amps) but I'll take it off charge in a bit, let it sit, then check the voltage.
One other bad sign was a slight 'bulge' in the side of it when I pulled it out of the ATV. Frozen water for sure. I'd forgotten to mention that when I posted this. And I only remembered it this morning when I went out to look at it and noticed that it no longer bulged. Hmmmm. I can see a new battery looming in the future. But not until we actually plan to ride them. I'm going to want to ride the crap out of it after I install it. And I'm going to let the battery sit for an hour or so before checking the voltage a second time to see if it maintains the charge.
Bear, it's a good plan to start them every couple weeks. We've always planned to do that, but... It's a pain in the butt to take the tarp off the trailer, climb up there and fire them up, hang out while they run, then re-tarp. But that beats dead batteries, of course. And with the two big snow storms we recently had, it makes the process all the more of a pain because we would have had to shovel our way out to them. Ha. Then the freezing fog we've had for over a week solid makes our plastic tarp into a solid piece of square plastic. Tough to fold and unfold. What we need is spring BR>
Ok, I'll give a battery report later in the morning.
Posted by: MrTommy
As I mentioned above, I just got two of those dinky little solar charges from eBay and hung them on our fence next to the ATV trailer. I took a couple pictures and put them in my 'gallery'. Looks silly but I think they'll work.
Oh, and my dead battery charged up ok with an overnight charge at 2 amps. It's been almost 24 hours now and the battery still measures 12.82 on the meter. Ya think maybe I dodged a bullet????????
Posted by: MrTommy
Swampy, in looking closely at the back of my solar chargers I see that they are the "Harbor Freight" type, or at least they say Harbor Freight on them. Also, in reading the docs it also says it send a trickle charge as long as there is light hitting the panel. I certainly don't think there is any sweat of an 'overcharge' with these things.
Posted by: MrTommy
Well, if all goes according to plan (and after all, doesn't everything...?), we'll finally dig the gate out and get the ATV's out for rides every 2-3 weeks. They'll get well charged then, and I guess we can regulate the charging by periodically covering and uncovering the panels. What do you think.
You're news is not good news, Bear. I was hoping this would be a mindless solution to the battery thing. I've got 225 watts worth of solar panels on the roof of my travel trailer but they pump power through a regulator and the batteries are fine (even though I periodically check the water in them too).
Posted by: MrTommy
Yeah, there may be a new battery in my future after all. Though I just went out to check the condition of the hopefully saved battery after charging and it's holding steady at 12.68 volts. Right how it's just sitting in the garage and every time I think about it I check the voltage. So far, so good.
And Bear, you changed your avatar and I almost didn't recognize you...
Posted by: MrTommy
Ok, here's the latest battery report. I know you're all sitting by your email programs just waiting for notification from this string.
I went out this morning and put the meter on the battery (which is sitting directly in the pathway to 'everywhere'. I know this because my wife tells me everytime she goes out there - . So far, it's sitting at 12.62 volts, down from yesterday's 12.68. Think I should put it on the 'trickle' charge one more time before I take it back out and install it? Or just take it out, install it, and plug the solar charger into it...
Posted by: MrTommy
Yeah Blue, that's my plan. I know I'm not going to buy a brandy new battery now and have it sit most of the time until spring when we do the bulk of our riding. I'll get one then, if I'm going to get one at all.
Posted by: Thunderbolt
Quote
Originally posted by: Catterman
That was my point, many people put the yellow bottle of HEET in, I said it was alright to use with ATV, but as Bear pointed out maybe not the best, but when I had a frozen fuel line in my truck it sure did the trick. However, the RED one is new, and it the way to go now. It is even safe for 2-strokes.
I honestly don't use either. I go to wal-mart and by the rubbing alcohol that is 90% isopropyl and have used it in cars and trucks for many years with no problems. I don't know what the other 10% contains, But the iso- heat isn't all alcohol either.
Posted by: Thunderbolt
Thw trouble with rubbing alcohol is it is leady 30% water bfore you put it in your tank
Not all rubbing alcohol is 70/30. As I stated you have to use the 90 % isopropyl (90/10) not the 70/10. I have used it for years and had good results although the best thing is to keep your gas tank full or near full and don't just keep throwing 10 bucks here and there in it . This will help keep condensation from forming in your tank. I have only had a couple problems ever that I can say were related to water in the fuel and to be honest I don't use any fuel additives anymore except injector cleaner and I have had no problems. I also buy my gas at stations that sell a lot of fuel because their bulk tanks get filled more often and don't sit half empty. As for as the heet goes I think Iso heat has been out for years using isopropyl alcohol, But I could be wrong.
Posted by: Thunderbolt
If there is a significant amount of moisture then yes it will be on the bottom. As someone stated in another post if the fuel you use has ethenal in it it will absorb some moisture itself. I personally don't add anything as long as I keep my tank close to full and I have not had any problems here in Minnesota. It won't hurt to add the red bottle of Iso heet if you are concerned about it. I put more than 100 miles on a day so fuel doesn't stay in my tank very long and I buy my fuel from stations that sell large quantities of fuel in a day.
Posted by: HelloNewman
Same here, I have a 650 also (04) and I don't trust taking it anywhere because it is very, very, very hard to start!
I keep my garage at 40 degrees and it struggles to start even at that temp! I bought this thing for ice fishing and I'm afraid to take it out when the temps are 25 or below, not to mention it is flat out embarrasing.
It is an "Arctic Cat" you would think it would start easy.
So what are you going to do next? It's been a while since you posted this, have you found a solution?
Posted by: HelloNewman
Well I took a look at my air cleaner and plugs today...I need to pay more attention to that air cleaner, talk about filthy!!! The plugs ( I bought new ones) were black as could be I am assuming no air = rich. I will let you know how it all works out. I also sprayed the carbs with cleaner
Posted by: HelloNewman
Okay...looking at the link to the carb http://www.brownsleisureworld.com/Parts/ATV/2005/2005ATV500FISAutomaticTransmission/CARBURETOR.htm which screw would need to be turned out 1/4 -1/2 turn? I can tear a car engine to pieces and put it back together but when it comes to carbs, I want my fuel injection! Please give me a number for the proper screw, #16???
Posted by: HelloNewman
Thank you Hondabuster; I thought my simple little question was going to get lost in the shuffle. My plugs were black (not wet) when I took them out. I was thinking too rich, however; the only way to get it to fire was full choke and no throttle, if I touched the throttle at all while attemting to start it you could just tell that this was hindering rather than helping... still thinking lean? I hate to mess with this, I have a habit of not leaving well enough alone and I don't need that right now.
Posted by: HelloNewman
So if I read this correctly, if I add no Heet or isopropyl of any sort; any moisture in my fuel will sink to the bottom of my fuel cell and the actual fuel will float on top? Is this an accurate statement?
Posted by: HelloNewman
Sort of like the Exxon Valdez effect, Now I see After having a hard time getting mine going in the cold, I changed my plugs (went one stage hotter, will change back in the summer) cleaned my air filter and those changes seemed to help a bunch as it started much easier. I wanted to know where I stood so I took it from its heated enviroment into a garage that was about 45-50 degrees colder (from +40 to -5 Farenheit), at the time it had a 1/3 tank of 2 month old fuel in it; which I feel should not have been an issue however it wouldn't start, oh I'm sure I could have dicked around with it and got it running but that's not what I want, not to mention the wear and tear on the starter. I want what everybody wants...choke on, turn key, Cat runs. So now after reading about the water factor I have added some Iso-Heet and filled it up with fresh fuel, I will keep you posted (like anybody really cares I'm still waiting to hear back from the person that started this thread, NORYCE if your out there how is yours starting? L8R,
Wayne
Posted by: HelloNewman
Shooter is right on with the "Leave the throttle alone while cranking!" Mine won't even think of starting if I touch it at all!
I don't think your winch would have killed your battery unless something was pushing the button on the remote while in storage and it was close enough to the machine to "reach" the winch, however I would think it would have blown a fuse or something first, I guess you never know. I would re-fill the battery and start from scratch without changing anything and see if it was just a bad battery,IE the water level was low to start with and that is/was your only problem. I have to agree with Blue Thumb, your battery may be toast but you never know and it won't hurt to try. Good luck
Posted by: weez440
hey spd one thing i found out with snowmobiles anyways is that isopropyl works a lil better then heat apparently heat just melts the ice or keeps it from freezing or i guess condensation from freezing and isopropyl actually like dissolves it and burns it through the motor but i had a tempermental 92 cougar and i used a half a bottle of that in every tank and i never had any problems anymore even though heat does work very well to
Posted by: weez440
what do you mean thanx bear i am the one who brought the whole isopropyl thing to attention lol j/k
Posted by: weez440
one thing i have always found out with my vehicles and snowmobiles and atv's alike is always make sure that you keep above a half a tank of fuel in them when it is cold outside for you will have a larger volume of fuel to water and this doesn't allow as much condensation to collect on the inside of your gastank besides for a vehicle it is a safety in case you are stranded in the ditch for a while
Posted by: freetrapper
I hate to hear you guys are having problems. There has to be a reason. My 04 500 starts like a dream down to about -5 f . It may start below that but it has not got that cold here yet this winter. Check it and see what you can find as it should start better than that.
Posted by: freetrapper
I think I read that too.......
Havent needed it yet but it is there, I looked.
Posted by: ATVAlaska
I keep my 650 in a shed out in the elements and have yet to have a problem starting my rig. Even after a month of not starting it at all it fired right up. Guess I am one of the lucky ones...lol.
Posted by: Nats
BR>
I have had a 2001 Bear Cat 250 4x2 and now a 2005 400 4x4 and both were cold weather dogs when it came time to start at near freezing temps. I live in the NE PA mountains. My dealer (Rusty Palmers in Honesdale PA) told me in 2001 that all Arctic Cats hate cold weather start ups but when warm run great all day no matter how cold it gets. I have found this to be true. I went 2 minutes this weekend 29 degrees trying to start the 400 (self choke system)in the shed before life kicked in.....I have learned to live with it.
Posted by: Nats
What do you think of using Marvel mystery oil in gas tank? I have heard it is very good for cleaning the fuel system and can keep the H2O levels down like good dry gas.
Posted by: Nats
Quote
Originally posted by: Nats
What do you think of using Marvel mystery oil in gas tank? I have heard it is very good for cleaning the fuel system and can keep the H2O levels down like good dry gas.
Anyone have info on the Mystery oil? also I see a post stating they using rubbing alcohol in thier tanks? Is that ok for the system? Sounds like a good cheap alternative to the $3 + cleaners and anti freeze products I am using now.
Posted by: Nats
bear4570...Thanks for explaining about the rubbing alchol.
Posted by: Nats
Fuel can go stale in as little as 3 week.
Is that right? my gas sits for a month or so at a time in the machine when I am not around to play and I never realized how bad this is...thought gas was good for much longer.
Posted by: Nats
OK this makes me mad....I live in NE PA and my buddies pull up on thier quads in 12 inches of snow ready to go and play. 1 Yamaha 660 1 Kawi 360 and an Arctic Cat 300 all these are 4x4. I open the shed and pull out my 2005 Arctic Cat 400 4x4 to show the boys my new toy! OK I do a safety check and all is good! Then it takes...hold on 30 minutes and many tries to crank over. This sucks! I tried many of the listed cold start hints and nothing worked...I felt silly. The boys go off and I miss out becuase the Cat is to cold? Seems like that engine warmers is worth the money in EGO saving alone!
Posted by: lownrangr
The only problem my cat gives me in the cold is that it takes FOREVER to warm up ! I know it's only a 250, but man, she takes her time! It'll usually start right up or sometimes it will take a few cranks if I haven't ran it in a while. But all in all, I'll have no probs.
Posted by: lownrangr
I had my 250 out yesterday plowing my sidewalk and I had left it in the driveway to go out in my truck to plow some more and my dad tried to start the atv several hours later and he said it wouldn't start. I don't know what was going on with that, but he didn't want to drain the battery so he pushed it back in the garage for me. When I got home it fired right up. It was in the single digits when it wouldn't start, but it's supposed to be colder tonight so I'm going to have to perform a test. I'm gonna leave it outside and see what it'll do.
I was just on it a few minutes ago and it started fine, but as usual took forever and a day to get warmed up.
Posted by: lownrangr
well I left my cat outside last night and it got down to 0, maybe a bit below and it started up fine this AM. It turned over kinda slow, but pretty much started right up.
Posted by: lownrangr
I would trash that battery and get yourself a new one. If you re-fill the old one and it does take a charge, there's no telling when it will crap out on you, maybe in your garage or on the trail.
when I brought my atv home from the dealer, the water was low (below the low water line) across the board.
Posted by: lownrangr
I gotta say that I have an Odyssey battery in my jet ski and it is the best 60 bucks I've spent on a battery ever. Not only can I mount it on any side, it basically never needs to be charged in the off season, never needs water, can stand -40* temps, and has waaaaay more CCA than a regular wet cell. It also comes with a 5 year warranty too. I'd recommend them.
EDIT: I just read that it can go as long 6 months of non use and still not need to be charged .
Posted by: pangborn83
I always hate being the dumb one but here goes, I have an 03 500 someone mentioned a primer on them where is it and how does it operate, if I have one, and on a side not I just bought one of those magnetic block heaters to try out, got it at advance for like $25 so I will see if that will help maybe plug it in half hour or so to see how it does.
Posted by: pangborn83
what I have alwyas done for my motorcycle batteries is to use a christmas tree light timer set for 30 minutes and throw it out in the garage witha 2 amp trickle charger, never fried any batteries and seems to do the trick well, a short charge similar to starting the machine and just enough to keep it up to where it needs to be. And thanks bkcntyxplr for the idea of what to look for I will have to see tomorrow
Posted by: redryder1
talkin about this 'heat ', i just got my old ac 300 back from my cousin. before i sold it to him it needed new rings. so i put a new piston and rings in along with boring it out. anyways, the three years that he had it he never rode it(thats why i have it now) but he put 'heat' and stablizer in it. my buddy and i went to pick it up and the battery was dead, pulled it two times and it fired right up. when taking it apart to put a new timing chain in, we had to pull the carb. it was full of thick, gunky crap. i looked in the gas tank and it also was full of black, gunky crap. (almost like he dumped two quarts of 2 stroke oil in it .) to get to my point i would have to say that bear 4570 would be right. it ate away the metal that the flaot in the gas tank slides on.(gas guage) . now we have to clean the whole fuel system or replace it. after seeing that i relized im never puting heat in my ac500 gas tank. then again ive never had problems with starting in the cold. 10 degrees today and it fired up!! ya'll have a good weekend.
Posted by: ArcticBrat
Well my cat dont like cold she starts great but it's after the bike is warm. Where I live there is alot of moisture in the air and this couses the carb to freeze then it does'nt like to idle. Wich really sucks when I'am trying to plow. My dealer said there is nothing much you can do other than buy a carb heater.I also had an 02 cat that did the same thing.
Posted by: ArcticBrat
How cold is it? Sometimes the moisture is in the fuel and not the air. It's a real problem that the isopropyl alcohol will help, sometime. The fuel makeup can also be part of the problem, trying a different brand can make it better or worse. I have seen carb icing even above freezing. Has to do the air velocity and high moisture content, something boat engines deal with a lot.
Today was 16F but it happens in much warmer weather,I have tryed different brand fuel's plus isopropyl. Has anyone tried a carb warmer? Like I said I also had an 02 250 ac that did the same.
Posted by: ArcticBrat
Today was 16F but it happens in much warmer weather,I have tryed different brand fuel's plus isopropyl. Has anyone tried a carb warmer? Like I said I also had an 02 250 ac that did the same.
Actually a simple carb warmer can be made from a couple pieces of heat riser hose and some duct tape or silver insulation tape. You wrap one piece of hose around the exhaust pipe and tee the other into it and tape it up. The other end of the tee hose fits around the carb bowl and convection will move the heat up to the carb. A better way would be to duct the warm air into the air box. I'm sure you aren't out mud holing this time of year and just remove the hoses in the spring.
Never thought of that it's Worth a try! Thanx for the idea BEAR4570(that man is always thinken)
Posted by: bkcntyxplr
My 05' 400i has a primer lever on the carb. Id imagine your 05 500 would have the same thing. When it's COLD I pump the primer lever 3 times and BANG, instant gratification. Here in Montana we've have some COLD lately. This week it's been amazing though. 61 degrees sunday when I went for a long ride.
The primer should be a brass colored lever and be right up on the carb. Look at it from the (let me think) right side as you sit on it.
Posted by: crumley
Must be something about Alaska. I have never had a problem with cold starting here either, except for when I broke my choke lever, and it still started after cranking for a while. My 400 and 500 usually sit for long periods of time and even during that -0 a couple weeks ago they both started.
Posted by: mshooter
Don't know if this will help but, I've noticed that if I hit the gas at all during cold startup the engine won't fire. Hard to do but if I keep my thumb off the throttle it starts up every time!
