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Posted by: DaveB
The info LEAF posted regarding speeds and wheelyability is right.....for stock clutching. When you go to an EPI Black or Red secondary, you will lose top end as the secondary clutch won't allow full shift out.
Posted by: Leaf
I bought my 05 Aug 29 and just shy of 500 miles already. Did some mods over the last few weeks. Started of by checking belt adjustment, set it at 23mm (a little on the tight side, cherps a bit)
Stock tires, stock springs, stock CDI, 2wd on asphalt
-66 mph (GPS)
-Raising front end in low standing up only.
-Tires barely coming off the ground in high standing up.
Stock tire, stock springs, Dynatek CDI, 2wd on asphalt
-70 mph (GPS)
-Raising front end in high sitting down.
Mud Bugs 27x10x12 Front, 27x12x12 Rear, EPI Pink Primary and EPI Black Secodary, Dynatek CDI, 2wd on asphalt
-64 mph (GPS)
-Raising front end in high sitting down.
I'm very satisfied with it. Will keep carbs, air filter, plugs and exhaust stock for now. Dynatek CDI is definitly worth every penny.
Posted by: Leaf
Hey, if your a mechanic, you won't have any problems doing this. I'm in engineering and was able to handle it!
Check out Nyroc's ATV Info at (http://atv.dnsalias.com/tipview.cgi?dir=Prairie) and ATV Nation at (http://www.atvnation.com/prairietech.html). Scroll down the procedures and find the right one, it's not hard at all.
These procedures were done for a Kawasaky Prairie 650, but it applies to our ATV's also. I also got a 2004 service manual from my dealer for the proper belt and torque specs. As far as the engine and transmission, same as 2005. Belt deflection should be between 22mm and 27mm stated in the book but I would try to hit 24-25mm. In my opinion, the min value of 22-23mm is to tight and the max 26-27mm is to loose.
Same as you, I also noticed it starting to slip slowly, loosing top end speed, but mine started at about 300 miles. After adjusting it, everythigng came back to normal. Nevertheless, don't wait to long to re-adjust, last thing you want to do is smoke it. Slight slipping isn't too bad but burning the belt just kills it!
As far as the springs, might as well do them at the same time. The websites also show how it's done.
As far as the Dynatek CDI, unplug three wires from the stock CDI and plug in the high performance one. Make sure to add di-electric grease to seal the connections.
Good luck
Posted by: Leaf
Just got back from holidays. Was gone moose and deer hunting and got a chance to really try out my bike. Can't say that I'm disappointed, actually I'm very impressed with it.
I did try the bike with the stock tires, stock CDI, with the EPI black secondary and the pink primary, again on asphalt, 2wd. I'm trying to remember, my memory is good but short, but I think the top end droped to 62 mph, and the front end was raising standing up in high but I had to put effort into it. It would'nt raise sitting down.
I like the combo of springs, tires and CDI I have so far because the power is unbelievable, the traction is excellent, the belt does'nt slip and the clutch engagement is not much more stiffer than stock. Although I think I'm border line on the black secondary with the tires I have. I would like to try the red secondary just to see the difference. I agree that it depends on how and where you ride.
My belt is still cherping a little bit, but I will fix this on the weekend. I received my spacers and will see what I can do.
I looked at some other power modules, but what I liked about Dynatec is that it's a plug and play. If I have any issues with the bike, it's real easy to bring it back to stock before contacting my dealer for warranty.
Posted by: Leaf
Check out this website (http://www.velocitydevices.com) Cheaper but wired in.
Posted by: Leaf
The modules and the Dynatek CDI basically do the same thing. Spark advance or induced timing, the plug ignites closer to TDC creating more torque at that specific RPM.
The difference is in how this is acheived. You either fool your stock CDI (HL, VD and DG) or you remap the CDI (Dynatek).
Posted by: Leaf
Both, the modules and the Dynatek CDI, do the same thing - electronic spark control or timing, however you want to describe it.
As far as engine premature wear caused by one earlier than the other, not sure how you would come to this conclusion.
My concerns with the modules are reliability, functionality and installation. The modules are wired in and they trick the stock CDI and not plug and play like the Dynatek. One of the guys I ride with has gone threw a few modules on his 04. For some reason, they overheat and stop working. Has now gone to the Dynatek CDI with no problems to date.
I guess only time will tell on the Dynatek!
Posted by: Leaf
Thats a good question, I was woundering the same thing. I was planning on doing some testing to see how the bike would run with and without the air ram system. Dealer tells me the bike runs really good in deep water, even submerged for periods of up to 15 seconds due to this air intake system design. Seems to me that it would cause air restriction specially if the front grill gets clogged.
Unfortunalty, I will not be doing any testing anytime soon due to the snow and cold weather up here.
Posted by: SHOTGUN
You guys with the cat 650 need to go to the kawa forum and snoop around. what you are talking about here we talked about in 2002 and 2003 after the Prairie 650 came out. except for the modules.
There are differences between the Modules and the Dynatech, I not choseing one over another but look ahead on what you are planning for mods. the Mods do fool the speed sensor and help on the botom. the Dyna CDI raises your timing curve to 32 degrees all the way to the top. it also raises the rev limit by 1000 RPM's, if your planning motor work down the road get the dyna, if your not save your money and get the Mods.
Lots of big bore kits out now. Mickey Dunlap and Dyno Ray are putting out kits that make 70-75 HP and more.
To show you the difference in a big bore kit, with a high comp piston on race gas and a stock cat 650, I raced a 2005 cat, we raced from one telephone pole up past two more and I was ahead by the distance between one hole pole. In other words I doubled his distance. They will wheelie at 35 MPH and will pull you off the bars.
Not bragging about beating a stock bike, just showing you the difference.
Posted by: SHOTGUN
Quote
Originally posted by: Leaf
The modules and the Dynatek CDI basically do the same thing. Spark advance or induced timing, the plug ignites closer to TDC creating more torque at that specific RPM.
The difference is in how this is acheived. You either fool your stock CDI (HL, VD and DG) or you remap the CDI (Dynatek).
the difference is the modules can only advance to the 28 degree that is programed into the stock CDI, the dyna is a complete plug and play the is programed for 32 degrees.
Spark advanced is plug ignites farther from TDC, sooner in the cycle, retarting time is closer to TDC.
Posted by: SHOTGUN
Mickey Dunlap, Four stroke Tech. Phone 814-842-6159, he doesn't have a web site.
Ray Fulton @ Fundy Power Sports.
Fundy Power Sports.
go to the downloads and see one of Rays prairie beat some of the sports bikes. its titled stg6 650 vrs yfz
Mickey did my bike it's an 850cc.
Posted by: turbocoupe
as far as performance that you can feel the hl icm module works incredible and so dont the p650 dynjet kit i also bought the epi pro clutch kit but after pulling the cover on and off a half a dozen times and trying the different springs and weights i only ended up using the red secondary spring i didnt like the pink or red primary springs due to it raised the stall speed of the clutch a little to much for hill climbing and also i run 28 in titan 589s also the nyroc exh mod was worth it between the icm module and the exh mod you will have to jet up 2-3 sizes but when all said and done it was worth every min if anyone is interested im selling 3 epi springs a black secondary pink primary and the red primary
Posted by: turbocoupe
well that would be nice but not everyone rides the same and to say they took the guess work out is a little much just remember if you put a high stall spring in such as the dalton blue or epi red primarys it also effects the eng braking for creeping down steep hills ive got a dalton blue ,epi pink,red, also a dalton white primary as well also have a black epi secondary a red epi secondary and 3 sets of weights ive pulled this side cover off probably a dozen times along with shimming the springs to fine tune them as well and in my kind of riding which is river bank and hill climbing along with deep mud the p700 primary shimmed and the red epi secondary worked the best but then again thats my paticular type of riding in my opinion you still have to do some fine tuning
Posted by: turbocoupe
ditchpickle you wont lose much on top end with the black secondary roughly 2-3 mph however the red epi secondary you lose roughly 5-7 mph top end also your going to raise the stall speed of the clutch roughly 5-800 rpm with the pink primary if you going to stay with 26-27 in tires your better off with the epi black secondary spring any bigger you will need the red secondary spring
Posted by: turbocoupe
i use the module from high lifter it was well worth the 100 bucks very noticable its hard to keep the front wheels down even with 28s
Posted by: turbocoupe
i use the hl module over the dyna tech due to the new rf filter from cat takes care of the limp mode fairy also i didnt like the idea of bypassing the rev limiter because if you use rev especially with those big tires you will definitly smoke the belt and second thing is my dealer doesnt bother me about the warrenty issues with aftermarket parts
Posted by: turbocoupe
i dont bother using a lift kit on mine due to the angle on the shafts but i am in the middle of having some axles made from the company that makes them for my drag car i also found the outer cv joints that are identical but roughly 30% bigger there from a import car now i just have to find the inners as it stands now there cost is less than half or a gorilla
Posted by: turbocoupe
i use the p650 dyno jet kit in my cat and it made a world of difference in throttle response
Posted by: turbocoupe
i bought the kit for the 03 p650
Posted by: ng
I've got the HL mod and like it alot.Does the jet kit help out much?
Posted by: heyyou
Go with the spring kit from Dalton,they did the testing and have taken all the guess work out of choosing the right combo.
Posted by: heyyou
That switch inside the cover turns on that annoying belt slip sensor.
Velocity Devices' module is even cheaper,and yes,they are worth it.
Posted by: heyyou
mptooloud,what were you running for wheels and tires when you busted your axle?
Posted by: heyyou
They all do the same thing,period.Don't let anyone BS you into thinking that their module will give you power all the way up to top or mid range.They all just get rid of the retardation at the very bottom end,up to about 7-8mph,then they don't do anything.
Now guys,bite my head off.
Posted by: weez440
if you put anymore shims in you deflection will be back to where it was before i would highly suggest to anyone who has an 04 650 i dunno bout the 05 to put the pink primary and black secondary springs in the pink is easy for the tension is set at 0 but the black is a lil trickier i fabricated my own clutch compressor with a lag bolt some washers and a piece of metal pipe but i have heard of some people using pvc pipe i can go up a steep ditch in high range and crack it down and can't get it to slip at all (i know not recommended but had to test it out)
Posted by: weez440
go to epi i think it was about 20 or so for the primary and well black i believe was 25 dollars actually that is what it is i just looked in my epi book and on your primary clutch there is like 8 lil bolts that hold the outside cover on you pull them 8 or so bolts off the plate comes off pull the old spring out put the pink one in tighten the 8 bolts and done the tention is set to 0 so there is no compressing or clutch pulling involved
Posted by: cFhDimebag
For those of you that have dynojet jet kits installed, which one did you purchase? I looked on there website and couldn't find one and also emailed them about maybe using the 2003 prairie kit, but they responded and said there hasn't been any testing on an AC650 and he couldn't help me. Are you guys just buying the 2003 prairie 650 kit for the AC?
Posted by: cFhDimebag
The one for the 2003 p650, or are they all the same?
Posted by: TheShockDoc
" Lots of big bore kits out now. Mickey Dunlap and Dyno Ray are putting out kits that make 70-75 HP and more. "
WEBSITES DUDE !! Where's the websites? I need my fix !! BR>
(I'm getting wood!)
Posted by: Diginit
One of the cheapist improvements you can do is increase the size of your intake snorkel. You have carb bores of about 1 1/8" each, and your snorkel has an ID of about 1 5/8". Doing this will improve your mid-range power and improve your MPG. I went from 12 MPG to 18 MPG. Get yourself a radiator hose (#7905 from NAPA, others have problems finding this hose but have located one just like it) cut it to fit inside under the compartment, and then you'll need to rejet. The jets you'll need will depend on your elevation. This will make a BIG difference in the performance of your machine. This mod should put you back about $25.00. By doing this, I went from being imbarrased at ATV pulls, to winning them with this mod ONLY. Even using stock tires. Obviuosly other mods can only make it even better.
Posted by: Diginit
Just slip it in neutral when you stop.
Posted by: Diginit
The DynaTeck CDI is a complete new CDI unit. You unplug your stock one, and plug in the new one. It's the most expensive at about $250.00, but, as I said, you just plug it in. No wires to splice, which is nice if you need to go back to the dealer for waranty. Performance is about the same as the others, but I've heard people comment that it runs cooler then the others. The modules tend to run hot at lower RPM's. The DynaTeck unit also eliminates the limp mode and reverse override circuits. I don't own one yet, but I will as soon as either Santa or the tax man visits me. A word of caution. By adding any ignition module with those big tires, be prepared for busting axles. You'd surely want to check into some Gorilla Axles......at $369.00 a piece. but it'll be worth it.
Posted by: frndinalowplace
speaking of the hmf pipe, whats a good site that i can find it on. and what price should i be expecting (200-300 im guessing) im also getting the highlifter cdi box. Are the secondary springs worth it??
Posted by: ACDOC
I got my 05 650 3 weeks ago and Love it. The only mod Iam doing is the dynatek cdi box which I will get in a few days. Ill let you know how it does.
Posted by: DitchPickle650
Hey guys, i just got my new 650 this weekend. I am a cat mechanic, so i know quite a bit about them, but i want to hear some feedback on what power mods are worth the effort and money, and what is not. I know of the EPI springs, (pink and black), the dyno jet jet kit, the dynatek ingition module, and the hmf pipe. Of these, which ones are worth the effort. Also, if you know of any other effective mods, let me know.
Posted by: DitchPickle650
I do all my driving in northern minnesota, which i figure to be pretty average elevation. Any idea on what to change the jets to?, And, can you explain the snorkel resizing better... do you have to modify the box where the bigger hose goes in?
Posted by: DitchPickle650
How did you adjust the belt? Mine seems to chug a little bit on low end when taking off slow, maybe this is normal. Have 24 miles on mine now, and only had it up to 60mph, where my dad's 05, just like mine does 65 with 125 miles on it. Im hoping it is just break in. But now, my dad's belt is slipping something fierce, and i havne't been into the kawi clutches yet. I know there are shims involved, but if you could talk me through the process of adjusting belts, putting in the dynatek cdi, and springs, that would be awesome. (Yes i am a cat mechanic, but i have never been through school for it, and at our brand new dealership, nobody knows anymore than what i do. But i am learning, and am pretty mechanically enclined in anythign else, so this should be no challenge for me, once i know what to do.) Thanks a ton!
Posted by: DitchPickle650
Thanks a lot for the links... I printed off like 40 pages of stuff. Can't wait to start tearing into my new baby. Haha. There goes warranty, but screw it, power is more important! Thanks again!
Posted by: DitchPickle650
Thanks for all the great info, I put the shims into my dad's 650 yesterday, and will do mine soon. Not too bad, once i printed off some stuff from nyroc. The worst part was trying to calculate what shims to put back in... Actually worked out pretty good though i think. My deflection was around 1.21'' and now i got it to around .91''. I had a 1.0 and a .8 shim in it, and i took out the .8 and put in a .3. Does this sound right? Seems to run great now, can't get the belt to slip a lick. Still waiting for the new belt to come in, so this is all on the worn belt so far. It does seem to creep forward just a tiny bit, like maybe a foot in five minutes of idling. Will this stop once I put the new belt in, or get worse? Well, if worse comes to worse, ill just have to add a little shim to it. Thanks again!
Posted by: DitchPickle650
I have fabricated the same tool to put the shims into my secondary, as described at the nyroc website. I used pvc pipe cap, and it worked great. There isn't enough spring there to buckle the plastic, since we are only dealing with a fourwheeler. It would be a different story if it was a zr 900. I know how to replace the secondary spring, and you say the primary is pretty easy? If so, i will probably put springs in mine too. How much are they and where are the best and cheapest place to get them. (epi springs)?
Posted by: DitchPickle650
most of my riding consists of trails, and climbing the ocasional hills. I will also be using it for pulling my 8 by 12 fish house around on the ice. What i want my fourwheeler to do, is really get up and go. Great wheelie power, but i want to increase it's overall power and even top end. Yes, this probably sounds bad but that is what i want. My buddy has a 04 sp 700 and he can take me from a dead stop all the way up to the top. What can i do to wax him in a drag? I know that i can pull much more than him, but i want to increase my drag speeds. What do i do?
Posted by: DitchPickle650
I just ordered my epi black and pink springs. I figured that since they were so cheap i couldn't go wrong. I think that they will be about right for the riding that i do. I am going to tear into the clutch on my 650 today, need to check and adjust deflection. Do you guys think i will notice much improvement over my stock springs with the pink and black springs with stock tires? I plan on getting mud lites, but in factory 26'' for warranty reasons. Also, i have a question about the kawi clutch. Inside there is an on off switch. Does this shut off that annoying belt slip sensor? If it does, im gonna shut it off! Also, i want to add a power module. I have heard of the DG3, the highlifter, and some others. I think that the highlifter is the cheapest, and easiest to get... Is it worth the 110 bucks?
Posted by: DitchPickle650
Where can i find the velocity devices module, and how much does it cost? I am waiting for my springs now, and when they come and when i get a module my machine should cruise right? Please update me on where i can find this module.
Thanks, brandon
Posted by: DitchPickle650
Thanks for the address to the modules. I think i will get the module for christmas.. hopefully! I put in my epi pink an black springs, and my wheeler walks all over my dad's stock 650. I didn't really lose anything on top, still does 65. I will hopefully get the velocity devices module soon, and i have high hopes for it because everyone seems to like it. Is it the best choice, or should i get the highlifter module? Please let me know what results you guys have come up with.
Posted by: DitchPickle650
Here's a question. I hear that a lot of guys are modifying the air snorkel on the '04 650's. I hear that this works quite well... Here is my question. The '05 cat's have a sort of ram air intake system, and i am wondering if this snorkel trick will work on the '05's and if so what i should rejet my wheeler for after modifying.
Posted by: Slowdawg
[ turbocoupe if anyone is interested im selling 3 epi springs a black secondary pink primary and the red ]
sent you a pm
Posted by: mptooloud
hey i have a question or two for you, exactly what is the dynatek cdi. and what all does it do. i curently have a 04 650 cat with 29.5 outlaws, basically i want to get some more power from my cat. what advise do you have ? e- mail me if you have too at mptooloud@msn.com thanks for any help anyone can give me.
Posted by: mptooloud
hey thanks for the responses on the modules for the kitty cat. i already have the highlifter module which made a very big difference on my bike. as for the gorrilla axles i plan on getting some soon, basically so i can lift my bike back up ( had to pull the highlifter lift kit off ) cause i did break 1 axle less than 5 miles after i bought my bike) since i broke my first axle> i just don't lock the front end and i have not had any problems since. any-who i just needed some feed back on the new cdi box>>> thanks alot ya'll
