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Posted by: minehunter
U joints are not better than CV joints at extreme angles. A U joint will break if it is constantly run at angles of greater than 17 degrees. Anything over 20 and they fail in a hurry. There some physics involved here that are hard to explain, but I'll try. At extreme angles the Ujoint doesn't have the same velocity at all points of it's rotation. A CV joint does, hence the name Constant Velocity. The varying speed of the roataion of a Ujoint is what causes them to fail.
Posted by: minehunter
Here is the place to go to find out the differences and limitations of both types of joints. They explain it much better than I.
http://www.pami.ca/PDFs/Pami743.pdf
Posted by: BONER
Mike Davis??/ WTF???? LMAO. Thats MIKE SMITH, AKA Scott Smith's (owner) Dad.
Anyway, I am fairly close with these guys and I promiss you guys that I will not let them forget about us Arctic Cat owners. Infact, I don't even really have to work hard, because High Lifter has already told me that they have big plan for the Arctic Cat 500i in the near future and that they will be coming out with many new and inovative products that they feel the ATV will require.
I believe that the reason that they are not making a front locker for the Arctic Cat front diff yet is because they are expecting ARctic Cat to add one on there 2003 models, if they would put all there time and money into making something that would not sell enough to cover there cost. So, I think that if Arctic Cat doesn't have anything by 2003 or 2004 I am almost positive that High Lifter will come out with some kind traction aid for the front end of the new Arctic Cats. But, with the rumors I've been hearing about, I don't think they will need to to be honest.
Posted by: ttaylor
Living out west I don't play in the mud all that much so I really have no need for a locker. My main interest would to make that already smooth riding cat even smoother. I would like some after market shocks like Works, PEP, something with a dual rate spring and adjustable compression dampening and rebound.
Also, Some wheel spacer would be nice. I don't want to go too wide just about an inch out each side.
Maybe a plastic cover for the metal racks. I like to put my small cooler on the front rack but it tends to fall through the spaces between the metal bars and rubs on the plastic.
Posted by: TG1
I agree Highlifter need to start producing new products for Cats. Companies don&39;t realize that Cat popularity is increasing due to their bullet proof engines/trannies, strong front diff and the single lever brake. If a person doesn&39;t ride a Honda, Yamaha, or a Polaris then finding hop-up parts is a nightmare. In Maine I'm starting to see more cats and no one has a bad thing to say about them. Hopefully Highlifter will start an aggressive program to create new products for Cats.
My wish list (for the 250):
1) Adjustable shocks.
2) Solid (plastic) front rack (I made one out of plywood for my bayou).
3) Handle bar mounted light (Highlifter has that right now).
Posted by: TG1
Thanks for the email address. I just sent on out to Mr. Davis, I also suggested he visit some of the Cat forums. It&39;s surprising that no one has realized that the Cat owners are an untapped market. Hope we see some changes.
Posted by: TG1
mudcat47537
I just got an email from Mr. Davis he's what he sent.
We went inside an '02 AC500I front differential and the locker will not fit b/c of the way the dif is made. It cannot be disassembled to insert a
locker.
I'd like to thank him for replying to my email.BR>
Posted by: TG1
Kinda feels like X-mas!! It's nice to know that there are companies who strive to satisfy their customers. Thanks Scott.
Posted by: TG1
I kind of like the dash, simple is best just think of all the problems a digital unit could have (they do look nice). All Cats really need are a locker, progressive shocks and solid plastic racks... At least I'd be happy.
Posted by: TG1
I really want to see plastic racks. That&39;s the only real feature I want from a Polaris... Wait grease able bears would be nice, but I haven't had any trouble with sealed ones yet either.
I'd like to receive my email notifications! I've tried re-entering my email address and modifying the customize. Any ideas?
Posted by: TG1
Fully sealed bearings are on everything now, sometimes though I'd like to have the ability to give a couple of pumps to the bearing. Especially after going through a lot of water and mud. I've seen sealed bearings fail after being exposed to harsh conditions. At work we added zerk fittings to everything we possibly can to ensure that the bearings are fully lubed. I will be the first to admit that it nice not to have grease after every couple of rides (just want the best of both worlds).
Posted by: Outlaw550
We hear you loud and clear We do plan to develop products for the A.C.
For whatever reason, the gearless locker for the Vinson seems to have touched a nerve. I would like to set the record straight on that product. This is not a new product designed for the Vinson. It is the Honda Rubicon locker. The Vinson has the same front diff. and we just learned that it fit. We didn't jump over A.C. and start making products for the Vinson. It was just a lucky break for us.
Please email us your ideas and wish list for any A.C. model you have.
Thanks
Scott
Team High Lifter
Posted by: mudcat47537
I just got an e-mail fron Highlifter telling about their new products, for the Vinson.
1. Gearless locker.
2. Progresive shocks
3. Aluminum wheel spacers.
I replied to them that was great for the Vinson owners, but how about some new products for our Arctic Cats. If they made a gearless locker for one AC that all 4x4 models could use the same one. I would think it to be cost effective, because of this.
What we need to do is send Highlifter a message stating that we want some new products for our Cats.
Posted by: mudcat47537
I can't get on their site now but I will post a link to their product design manager. Maybe if we started sending some e-mail it may help our cause.
I rode at a local area yesterday and of course seen lots of Hondas, Polaris and not as many Yamahas. But I didn't see 1 Suzuki, Kawasaki or Bomb. We had 4 Cats in our group and I saw 4 others. That is a good ratio, I think. I only saw 3 Yamaha utility quads the rest were Sport quads. There are getting to quite a few Cats around these parts anyway. We need some new products.
Posted by: mudcat47537
I have the email address for Mike Davis manager of product pevelopment. It is mike@highlifter.com We should all drop him a line and let them know we want sone new products.
Posted by: mudcat47537
I got the same thing, he did say they were working on items for the Cats. It doesn't look like anyone wants any thing though. I thought there would be more intrest than the 2 of us. Oh well. I knew the dif was spot welded, but they can be ground off to gain access. I guess the only hope now is if AC comes out with something for the 03, that will fit ours.
Posted by: mudcat47537
I'm sorry Mr. Smith. The websit was down and I couldn't remember, I thought it was Davis.
I do hope you are correct Boner. I sure would like to have a locker. Especially if all the other makes have one.
Posted by: mudcat47537
I agree, it is nice to have companies like Highlifter that want input from owners. I really really want a gearless locker. As far as anything else I'll give it some thought, before I reply. Possibly some better valved shocks, would be at the top of the list. I also can't find any front cv guardes for the 02s. Stronger better protecting front bumper, the headlights are real vulnerable. Oh yeah did I mention that I want a gearless locker. I sure there are others but, I will have to think on it for a while. But I will e-mail them with my ideas.
Posted by: mudcat47537
Moose makes a front bumper for the 02 Cats, it is in the new Dennis Kirk catalog. You can keep the plastic racks on the Polaris as far as I'm concerned. They break too easy and it is harder to tie stuff down on them. They would be better with a extender like the 700 but they still break way to easy for me. I would like to see some stiffer shocks for the 02 ACT models. I believe these are too soft and no rebound damping makes for a bouncy ride, allthough smooth. I still need a locker too, this is at the top of my list.
Posted by: bbertram
A locker would be wicked awesome for me. So many times I have come to the point where that one tire, if it would just turn I would be out. Oh well, thats the point where I back up a little more, put the good old cat in 2nd gear and floor it, make those tires spin and carry your speed through the mud with high rpms, your going to make through forsure. I love doing that, makes me love my quad so much.
What else would nice? A new dash to replace the crappy looking one we currently have, why couldn't they make a nice one? Oh well. A good solid front bumper where you could yank and pull from. The current front bumper is far from solid and you can't attach a rope to it to yank from. The winch plate I would never attach a rope to, those loops on either side of the roller fairlead would never take a jerk without bending the crap out of them.
So in recap:
-a locker that can be put in and out on command
-a new dash, a nice one (speedo)
-a new front solid bumper
Posted by: bbertram
But the bumper needs to look good too. It can't be all home made with crappy welds using angle iron. Warn or someone needs to step up to the plate and build a quality bumper for ATVs. The bumpers you can buy now, I don't consider these real bumpers, more like thick brush guards for the front, there is no way it can take the impact of a tree that stops the quad dead. I'm probably dreaming, ATVs (utility) will never get the aftermarket support that we want.
Posted by: bbertram
Exactly and powder coat it black. So the paint doesn't scratch off so easily. In reality this wouldn't cost allot but manufacturers like to soak us for every god damn penny.
I wonder how much money it really takes to build a quad. I bet it doesn't cost half of what we pay, just like trucks and cars. Sad
Posted by: bbertram
Plastic racks would be nice, the dash wouldn't have to be digital, they could make a nice analog one, white face guages, red numbers. Make the shell of the speedo iteself nice too. Maybe make it glow a different color, like green? The plastic racks I think I would really like, I like metal ones but they get banged up over the years and rust and scratch. Hmm...what else....
Posted by: bbertram
You don't want to be greasing anything. Bearings will go over time even if you have to grease them. Having to not grease your quad is such as nice plus. I hope it stays that way. I remember on my 94 King Quad the rear constant velocity joints never had a boot over them !! Funny thing is that they never broke all that often. Now if you see a ripped boot you are supposed to make getting it fixed your highest priority. Most things on the quad are just not that fragile but I still agree that you should get that boot fixed and keep it clean when it is ripped. I just find it ironic. The next model year the boots were added.
I don't know about your e-mail notification problem.
Posted by: bbertram
So, I'm guessing, the u-joints are not used today because they don't offer as much of an usable angle compared to CV joints? I know the CV joints on my cat at at their maximum almost, they are at a wicked angle. I can't imagine a lift kit, you would be replacing them all the time. Just like HighLifter's 500i.
Where I live there is no machine shop, I live way up north in an isolated town. Otherwise I would maybe get some plans made up and make a nice bumper.
I think plastic racks are good for what I do, I don't use my racks for much. But it doesn't mean AC can't make better ones than Polaris, like a different design so you can tie down stuff better, stronger for people that need that. Hmmm....how about a small diameter tubing rack used as the skeleton and use the same type of plastic over top like Polaris does. That would make it really strong, it would look good for a long time and it should look just like a normal rack but plasticy. Of course the rack would have to be made of solid metal not hollow like todays racks.
Posted by: bbertram
I have 26" on my 500i and in deep snow when your stuck trying to get out the front end will knock some times, that really pisses me off. With stock tires it takes allot more to make the front end knock. If it still knocks in the mud this summer I will probably have to get lets aggresive tires or something. My last quad never knocked at all in the front and it had the same exact tires I have on now. So I'm guessing its because of the extreme angle the CV joints are at now or the front end is crap. I would guess both.
I really don't like the front end on the 2002 models, its 100% 3 wheel drive unless the tires are straight and then you will be lucky to get all 4 digging. My 98 Quadrunner was really good for pulling all 4 allot of the time, it was weird. If that new quading coming out from AC does not have a locker I will cry and go buy something else. Having no locker from the factory is a low down dirty shame and AC should feel ashamed.
Posted by: bbertram
You and me both.
Posted by: bbertram
I know, I really love Suzuki but the IRS on the cats won me over. They were the inovators of the industry then they fell behind for 10 years and now they are starting to come back. I would buy a Suzuki over an AC only if the Zuki's had IRS. Thats all the cats have over the Zuki's in my eyes.
I wonder what else there is to inovate? What else can they make besides big CC quads? We already have IRS, lockers, smooth rides, power, reliability is fairly good on all makes. I think weight is going to be the next big thing coupled with high performance smaller motors. What do you guys think?
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
ive been dogging the guys at HL to get stuff for the AC's for a few months. i have met a few of them (Scott, Mike, Allen, Jeff Newman) and they are all really great people.
i hope the '03 cats come with lockers.
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
it is possible. all they have to do is replace the welded spider gears.
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
hrrrmmm....ARB air lockers.....electric lockers....hrrrmmmm
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
bbbertan, the constant velocity joint your talking about is a u-joint. much tougher design than the cv joints today.
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
bbertran, u-joints are actually better at extreme angles than cv's, its just that cv's have no wobble at high speeds, thats why they are used on cars and IFS trucks.
people just dont give Suzuki enuf credit. they revolutionized the atv world in many ways:
1)FIRST atv, the 125
2)FIRST IRS machine
3)FIRST selectable 2wd/4wd
but they dont get any credit...
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
lemme rephrase that, Suzuki added the important 4th wheel to atv's....
IMO, you cant consider a ATC 70 a ATV, unless you mean by that that when you get stuck you pick the thing up and carry it...also three wheelers arent all terrain vehicles because they are only 2wd. plus they tip too easy.
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
IMO, the first 4wd atv made(Honda 350 foreman) was the most reliable EVER made. i know people who have these that are stock, probably never change their oil, and run 28's. if you dont know about the 350 foreman, it was the only STRAIGHT front axle 4wd atv ever made. they made it for three years(86-88). they are geared super low. saw one at gator run that was turning 28" mudzillas, no prob.
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
you can get cv joints for jeeps that are just two u-joints together...i know that is oversimplification, but thats what it looks like and they call it a cv joint
Posted by: northarkie650MUDD
if it werent for these discussions, wheeling as we know it wouldnt exist
Posted by: kycat
Hey doods,,, and Hi-Lifter MAN, hoot,,
A Gearless Locker, My 2002 400act Artic Cat needs a locker(BADLY).
Adjustable Progressive Shocks, would be awesome, I'd buy a set tommorrow. Actually i'm looking into something that might fit already.
I think a good mid/upper rpm performance cam would be good also. Maybe offer it with your pipe and jet kit and also as a seperate item.. This might be a little extreme, but i'd want one. I think this would level the performance of the cats nicely.
I'll think on it some more, but i think these items on an Artic Cat would make one heck of a machine.
Posted by: kycat
A high compression lightweight piston, for the 400 and 500 models stock bore.
Maybe highlifter could put a performance package together consisting of a piston,cam, pipe, airfilter, and jetket.
I know i would like a piston and cam..
Posted by: MountainCat
"High Lifter has already told me that they have big plan for the Arctic Cat 500i in the near future and that they will be coming out with many new and inovative products that they feel the ATV will require.""I believe that the reason that they are not making a front locker for the Arctic Cat front diff yet is because they are expecting ARctic Cat to add one on there 2003 models, "
If AC does come out with a locking diff on the 03 models will it be backward compatible with the 02s?
Posted by: MountainCat
That would be cool... Especially if they would put a switch or something so that you could lock and unlock the froint diff.
Posted by: MountainCat
I think that it could be done. Do not know how hard it would be to accomplish though. But then again almost anything can be done with enough money!
Posted by: MountainCat
I agree with the front bumper and maybe brush guards on the bumper to protect the headlights!
Posted by: MountainCat
Reply, I know what you mean about the bumper. Like one that if an old tree falls down on the trail you pull right up to it and try to shove it out of the way without worrying about bending your bumper.
Posted by: MountainCat
mudcat47537 I think I have seen one of those MUD bumpers but I do not think that is quite the type I am looking for. Although MUD makes some very good products!
Posted by: MountainCat
The way it was explained to me by my dealer was that when almost all other atvs are lifted, they only get up to about 12 inches and that is what AC comes with stock. My dealer told me that the i models can handle 27' tires easy. he strongly recommended not lifting the i models because he said that it put a lot of stress on the bearings and joints and you would be having to replace them all of the time!
Posted by: MountainCat
I am hoping their new models will have a manual in and out locker mounted somewhere on the handlebar and that they will make it an upgrade accessory for the 02 models. That would make me a very happy Cat owner!
Posted by: MountainCat
How come Honda takes credit for the first atv in 1970 the first three wheeler? they have information alla bout how they were first with the atvs...???....
Posted by: MountainCat
Hey.. I was just saying that Honda was taking all the credit. Honda also takes credit for developing the first 4 wheel drive atv.... I am not the biggest fan of Honda I actually prefer Suzuki and AC.....
Posted by: MountainCat
Cool... Yeah I read on the Honda web site that when they introduced it, they lowered it down on a helicopter so that you could see all 4 wheels turning!
Posted by: MountainCat
Okay nice science and engineering discussion
Posted by: MountainCat
Tooooo True......
Posted by: Rader
Has anyone considered taking the mesurements and designing the kind of front bumper you want, and taking the specs to a local machine shop. It might be more expensive, but in the long run, with some tinkerin you would end up with what you need. Just remember you'll be messing with your weight ratio, and you want a bumper that will absorb most of the impact and not bend the frame. Much cheaper to fix in the long run.
Rader
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