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Posted by: BONER
Both of the 2001 500's have the same diff as Cowboy's 2000 auto. The 2001 400 has the same diff as the 454 and 500 manual shift up to 2000.
The 250 and 300 4x4 have the same diff, all years.
Posted by: BONER
It's not avalible for anything yet. I would not be surprised if it's a year before they get it out on the market.
Remeber, it was only a year ago when High Lifter anounched it was gonna have an easy steer kit out for the 450 and Grizzly with a locker, but since they could not figure out how to make it work without having a super wide turning width-- they put that project WAYYYYYYY on the back burner.
Posted by: BONER
Well because truck parts sell so much better than atv parts they have to make up with that lose in price. Take a look at brake pads, My factory brake pads cost 25 bucks or 22 for aftermarket pads. Thats how much the front caliper on a 1992 Dodge Cummings dually cost.
Posted by: cowboy
Just got back from a great ride down in Oregon with GrizzRick and a few of his buddies. Must say I had a great time and definately look forward to going back. Thanks Rick for everything, it was great! Also thanks to Wayne and Tim as well, next time you talk to them-great guys and definately a great time.
Now, with all the talk of the front differentials lately, I figured I'd let you know how this ride went. The trails were VERY tight in places, lots of trees, and nerve racking fender rubs to barely squeeze between them, in parts. One of which required actually driving up a tree with the right front tire, then turning off of it, allowing the machine to "fall" down diagnal in between the second tree, allowing you to pass between them. There were lots of relatively steep inclines, tons of off-camber stuff, sidehills, and with all the rain-tons of mud! Oh, and on one particular trail that Rick and Wayne built, you had to drive down into a creek bed, filled with large rocks and small boulders, heading downstream a short distance, then immediately sharp right around a huge rim grinding boulder, sliding along a sidehill just below a huge stump-all while trying not to tip over sideways into the water-due to the steep off-camber. Once around the rock, there was a fairly steep muddy slope that once you hit the top, you had to turn immediately sharp left to avoid falling into a deep washed out pit.
Although a few miles into the ride, it was here that we first got a good look at how the front diff. on the 'Cat worked. The Polaris with the "true 4-wheel drive" went first, followed by Rick on his Grizz, then me coming up last. I turned a little too sharp, in towards the tree, trying to avoid the big hole on my right, which caused my right front tire to lift off the ground. Being rather muddy on this relatively steep grade, with one tire in the air, naturally, my free tire in the air was spinning. Rick and Wayne probably thought I'd need a hand at this point, when I blipped the throttle a bit, giving it just a little more gas. At that point, that's when it happened-that "limited slip" front diff. on the big 500 kicked in. The tire on the ground grabbed all of a sudden, spinning both front tires, easily pulling me up and over the cresting point, and safely down the other side. Being on the downside of the hill, Rick and Wayne were both impressed at how the front end suddenly engaged, pulling me over.
This was not the only time it happened. On several more occassions throughout the day, I encountered much of the same situations, with one tire up in the air spinning. By giving it just a little more gas, the stuck tire would break free, pulling me up, out or around the problem area's. I did encounter one problem while turning too sharp into a deep rutted uphill grade, pulling the right front way up in the air, standing off the left rear tire. In this situation, the front in the air was spinning, yet giving more gas still caused the stuck left to surge a bit. The problem here was that because the right front was so high up in the air with the steep terrain, and hard right turn, more gas was lifting the front end entirely off the ground, trying to turn the 'Cat upside down. In this circumstance, I had to back down out of the deep rut, then attack the hill from a slightly different angle. The second time, we went up like a breeze, as if nothing happened.
I must say, actually paying close attention to how the front diff. operated, it was great to see that the limited slip front diff on the '00 Auto 500 does indeed work as claimed, which leads me to believe there IS a difference between front ends on the 500 'Cats for the newer years. It worked flawlessly every time, always pulling me up, over or around various obsticles along the way. And, it didn't just kind of slip into place. When the stuck tire engaged, it definately engaged with authority.
Anyway, despite what may or may not be said about limited slip front differentials, I'd say this thing is the next best thing to "true 4-wheel drive" This all happened on a trail ride, in a "real world" testing, not jacked up on stands in a sort of "simulation". I don't care what the machine does in the garage, if it gets me through the steep and deep out on the trail, by god that's good enough for me.
Anyway, with all the questions lately about how it works, just thought you might be interested to hear that it indeed does, and very well at that. Best of luck to everybody out there and Good Riding!
And, Thanks Again GrizzRick, it was great to finally meet you and do some riding along the way. Definately had a great time, and look forward to doing it again!
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
CanadianViking:
Hey, no problem, just thought a few of guys here might be interested in hearing some "real world" info, rather than garage talk. Granted, the jack stand method is probably the best "simulation" to test, but nothing beats the "real world" useage. Though, I highly doubt this will be the "final answer" on the topic, but yes Regis, it is my final answer. heh heh heh. So hey, did you ever end up getting your 'Cats yet? I think last time I heard you were waiting a month or two, did it pan out yet? If so, congrats, how do you like them? If not, Best of Luck when you do get them, I'm sure you'll love 'em!
Grizz:
Hey man, thanks for the backup! I'm sure glad I had an actual eye witness along on the ride. Sure helps in some circumstances. And, I must add, yeah man, you were right, we did do a number on that Polaris in the mud. I was kind of wondering why he tried avoiding all the deeper pits. Heh heh heh. Seriously though, tell Chris thanks for showing me around as well, I had a great time with you guys. Anxious to come back now and see how the big Grizzly does in the mud and hills now with the locker in it.
Take care,
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
GrizzlyRules:
Hey, I'd be glad to help, though I think you might be better off just doing it yourself. I bought a couple shaft collars for a tractor, then cut them down to size, which work great. However, TheRetreaver (posted just above) just made a set out of the grey PVC pipe. His are probably lighter than mine are, and I'm sure they'd work just as well. My guess is that they probably didn't charge him more than a couple cents for the "spacers", as you can buy pvc for around $1.00 a foot, or less. At that rate, 3/8" or even 1/2" wouldn't cost much at all-less than a dollar I would think, unless they charge a "cutting" fee.
Anyway, I'd sure help you if you want, but you'd be able to get them a lot quicker down at the local irrigation or hardware store. Of course, if you'd prefer, I can just as easily go down myself and get them for you, but you would probably have to wait a couple days for the mail to deliver. Either way, let me know what you decide, I'd be glad to help if you want.
Once you get them though, you'll simply compress the spring slightly (after taking the spring/shock assembly off the 'Cat) to remove the top retaining clip. Next, just slide the spring off, then the plastic spring/shock spacer, and finally the large flat bottom base plate. Now, slip your new "spring spacer" over the shock, then install the large flat bottom base plate thing, and continue assembling the spring/shock the reverse of how you took it apart. It's really easy to do, and shouldn't take more than maybe 20 minutes or so to do both sides, either front or rear. I found the rear on my machine to be extremely easy, in fact, the rear springs damn near fell out in my hands. I've got the 1/2" up front due to my heavy weight, but you might just want to try putting them in the rear like TheRetreaver did, they might just work better there for your needs. Personnally, I don't think you'll want anything bigger than 3/8" up front, unless you carry a lot of weight up front. Otherwise, it might rattle your teeth out! Heh heh heh.
Anyway, let me know what you decide, I'd be glad to help if you like. Best of luck with the project too!
TheRetreaver:
Hey, yeah, we missed you down there for sure! We did have an awesome ride, even though it did rain quite a bit. Rick had me buy a rain suit, and I'm damn glad he did, it definately made things so much nicer. Also, it was so much easier to clean up after running through all those mud pits-most of the big ones were about rack deep, so mud and water was being thrown everywhere-and I do mean everywhere! By the end of the day, we were pretty much covered, it was cool.
We were down outside of Newberg Oregon, around the Yamhill area, if that rings a bell. It's outside of Portland probably around a half hour or so??? I'm not familiar with the area and it was pouring rain so bad it made driving through all the maniac traffic rather interesting to say the least-needed a beer by the time I got there!
If you like though, maybe we can all try to get together this summer for a ride somewhere??? One of the Texas boys mentioned gathering in Utah somewhere, which might be a little closer for some people. If that doesn't work out, maybe we can all plan something somewhere else. I really don't mind where I travel, as long as it will last for a couple days-depending on the drive of course. Always makes those really long drives that much easier if you get at least a couple days of good trail riding in, ya know.
Anyway, take care, and let me know what you think-anybody else for that matter who is interested!
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
Grizz:
Oops, sorry-got carried away there and forgot to answer your question about the outerwears. From what I've seen, I would think you should be able to keep them on just fine. The spacer fits just below the larger base plate thing, so I would think the shock cover thing would fit just fine.
Hope that helps,
Mike
Posted by: TheRetreaver
Cowboy,
Sounds like I missed one heck of a good trip .Hopefully next time. Where exactly were you in Or.?
I made spring spacers out of gray pvc pipe.I believe it was 1-1/4". They seem to work great. Might go with a 1/2" in the rear. I carry most of my weight there.
Well glad to here about the diff. Test that you did. Beats the Ell out of every thing I 've heard so far. Real life tests are much better.Well enough said. Thanks for the post.
Good Riding
Posted by: TheRetreaver
Hey Cowboy,
To bad it rained. There's nothing worse than riding in the rain. At least you had the rain suit. Still sounded like a good time.
A ride this summer sounds good. Only thing is, from mid June to end of Sept. is fire season and I never know whether or not i will get my days off.Sure as $hit I plan something and a Fire will break and I am either sent to the fire or held on duty at my station. So i basically don't plan anything after mid June.
Still planning a ride in Boise sometime in April. Let me know if you have a free weekend.
Well enough said. Good Riding!!!
Posted by: 01Grizzly
Cowboy,
You are absolutely right about how that Cats front end worked! I was very impressed. Everything you have said was true, and when you did get one wheel to slip and gave it alittle more gas, the other tire "locked" in and pulled you through every time. If my Grizzly's front differential was as effective as the one on your Cat, I wouldn't be putting a locker in it. In a straight mud bogging situation where you would be putting power to the ground in abundance, you've got "true" 4WD. Some may not believe that, but I've seen it, so I know its true. The really great thing is, we both kicked the Polaris's butt, both in the mud, and climbing hills. Not to mention the mud holes we went through and made it, that he wouldn't even try! I think Chris uses the "too many grease fittings" excuse because we kept killing him in the mud! :) At any rate, I'm really glad you had a good time, I enjoyed the hell out of it too. It was great to finally meet you, and to see how that Acrtic Cat performed. Again, I have to say I was impressed! We are definately going to have to do it again! We didn't even begin to ride all the trails up there.
Rick
PS. I just realized I'm logged in on my old username. I was curious last night, and wanted to see if it still worked, it does. :)
(GrizRick)
Posted by: Farmr123
What a refreshing sight. Someone actually giving an honest real-life review of how something works, not just empty gum-bumping of something they heard their neighbor's cousin read in a magazine somewhere.
I have no firsthand experience with this, but a friend of mine with a Honda Foreman says that hitting the front brake will lock in his front end sooner. He has the problem of it not locking in at all sometimes. Other times the front wheels take 'turns' spinning when in snow. I always favored the Polaris system because I never saw firsthand a lock-up system that truly worked automatically, but it sounds like AC found a way.
GOOD REVIEW!!!
take care
Posted by: Farmr123
I just talked to a friend who is a Kawasaki nut. Seems he went to some propaganda thing a Kawasaki dealer had about the new 650 twin. Seems they run a pretty much 'open' front diferential for steering ease, and then have a spring loaded lever on the handlebar (kind of a stubby brake lever kind of thing, I guess) that, when held back, locks the front end together with no slip at all. He didn't get a chance to drive it to see if it worked as advertised. He figured it would, but we both wondered how handy it would be to have to pull the lever. If it was easy to do, and not a pain in the you-know-what to have to pull, that may be the best system yet. Open for ease of turning, but locked solid whenever YOU wanted it to be, not when or IF it decided to (like my friends Foreman).
My 4wd system has been trouble-free so far and I like how the Polaris system works, but prefer solid linkages, not wires and electricity when it comes to something that you may have to walk if it doesn't work right.
Posted by: YukonRon
Thanks, Cowboy, for the "real world" evaluation on that front diff. Sounds like a fun ride.Your description of the trail sounds like some of the places we go hunting up here.
I'm assuming the newer 500's have the same diff on the Auto and Manual machines. Can anyone confirm that for me?
Posted by: GRIZZLYRULES
hey COWBOY...I was wondering if u could make me some of those spring spacers for a 01 AC 500...i will pay for them....will i be able to put shockwears over the shocks if i get them?
Thanks,
William
Posted by: GRIZZLYRULES
hey cowboy..if isnt to much trouble..can u take some pics and post them.....i want to see what the design of them is and what they look like and see if i can do it myslef or if i need u to make me some......thanks.....if not...ill buy a HL lf for it.....do u think i will need to re-align the front end if i get them?
Posted by: ZoomZoom
Wow! that sounds like a good ride you guys had. Don't you just love that 4-wheel drive when you need it. Are AC's full time or part-time 4-wd? Wish i could have been there also.
Posted by: GrizRick
I didn't bring a camera, I had a buddy that was supposed to come along that day with a video camera, but he never made it. Cowboy brought a camera, but we were all having such a good time riding that no one thought to take a picture untill we were done. Not only that, the trails are quite tight and very "technical". So I think we were more concerned with not flipping, or rolling our quads. Not to mention trying to avoid all the obsticles we had to go through, over or around without doing damage or getting hurt.
Rick
Posted by: GrizRick
Farmr123
I Have found that dragging the front brake would assist in getting some traction to the traction wheel. I've had to drag it prior to wheel spinning for it to work at all, and even then it didn't work that well. If I tried dragging the front brake after wheel spin had already occured, it didn't work at all. I just installed a Dirty Howie locker in the Grizzly and got to see how the front differential is set up. What a useless design! No wonder I never got any front end traction. It has only 2 clutch plates behind one side gear to bias torque between two wheels. Yamaha really fumbled the ball when they designed that one! :)
Rick
Posted by: GrizRick
For the guys with a 2WD/4WD option, I think the most exciting thing going is the Detroit Locker being manufactured for the front dfferential on quads! Unforunately for me, I didn't hear about it untill after I had already bought my Dirty Howie front locker. Oh well, I can't complain, its not available for the Grizzly yet anyway. In the mean time I've got "absolute 4WD"! :)
Rick
Posted by: GrizRick
I knew they weren't available yet, but I think its great news that Tractech is going to manufacture a Detroit Locker for quads! I've always thought that would be the best thing for quads with a 2WD/4WD option. I have one in the front of my pickup, so I'm familiar with how it works. When you disengage the front drive shaft it pretty much behaves like a stock differential. Easy steering, good road manners, etc. Once you engage the front drive shaft it acts like a locker, and has all the bad manners that go with it. :) But it has great traction.
I have a buddy who called about the pricing on them, and he said they were going to cost between $350-$400! Thats what I paid for the Detroits that I put in my pickup.
Rick
Posted by: CanadianViking
Cowboy,
Thanks for the great description of the actual workings of the AC front diff. Like you said, this topic has been beaten to death and it's nice to have final answer on the subject. Sounds like you had a great ride!
Cheers,
Posted by: UtahRancherRider
Sounds like a great ride. Any chance you guys took some pictures so us less-fortunate souls can remember what it's like to get out and ride? :)
