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Posted by: BONER
Well one example of a not so good aluminum swing are is the 400ex's. There were about 5 reports in the forums that I saw where people complained bout this. They said they were cracking them after a couple months of mx style riding.
About the 650's lockability, it's basically like useing your front brake lever to get both fronts to pull. Instead of grabing the front brakes the lever hookes up to something like a brake caliper except it's on the front clutch back. When you pull hard enough it locks the clutch packs together and gives you true 4wd, but once you let off you are back to limited slip.
I read a review on the 650 today in one of the last places I expected, in the Febuary, 01 issue of Popular Mech. They say it puts out 42 hp (vs the HO's 38 hp) @ 6500 rpms and has 14.4 lbs per HP (vs the HO's 18.4 lbs per HP). They also said it revs to 8500 rpms and has a 4.8 gallon gas tank.
About the only thing worth mentioning about there review was that it Wheelied with ease. They also have one KILLER picture of it jumping and almost on the ground(about 6") it's in a wheelie that would scare more than a few enought to grab the brakes. It also looked alot better in those pictures than what I had saw before. I don't like the "hiding an airbag in here" look of the handle bars at all.
Posted by: Bill450es
The Kawi reps brought a 650 to our club house last October...this will "raise the bar" and lower the bank accounts for a lot of people!!
NO Hitch...it's an extra..but I didn't see how one could be installed..either did the rep.
We got to hear it run,but for some reason he wouldn't let us take it through our MUDPIT !!!
Darn!!!!
Posted by: Tim1
I can't really tell from the pictures but does it also have aluminum front bush bars and racks or are they steel and painted silver?
Posted by: Tim1
So it will not be like Suzukis locker set up were it dangerous to steer above 10mph.
TexMud, go to FAQ at the top and scoll way down and click on the word "here" it will bring you to a chart that tell you to make you links clickable for us so we do not need to retype them out.
Its just a matter of typing 5 extra symbols before the address and 6 after the address.I can not just tell you the symbols here because it will not show up and just make a link like it is suppose to.
Heck i will give it a try any ways.
After the address without a space type [/url]
Before the address type [url]
Posted by: snowshark
Many of the sports bikes use aluminum parts with no problems. It will be intersting. Either way Kawasaki is raising the bar.
Posted by: cowboy
I might be off base with this one, but didn't the Raptor have a few problems with Aluminum A-arms when it was first introduced??? I thought I remembered something about that, maybe it was just a few single incidences, but it seems like I remember somebody getting hurt or having rolled a machine due to the A-arm bending, or breaking, something like that? I think it was repaired/replaced under manufacturer knowledge, but still, it would definately suck to have something like that happen while towing a cargo trailer, or hauling an elk up and out of the mountains through steep, rocky, rutted terrain.
Still that Kawi will be interesting with that new locking differential. I do agree, they'll probably get the other manufacturers to start thinking of improving their own machines. Wonder what 'Cat has in mind for '02???
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
Yeah, I thought I'd heard it was a true locking diff myself-supposed to compete with the Polaris system as the fronts are trully engaged, but you don't need the rear wheel slippage like the Polaris. I had a copy of a letter sent from Kawi that stated how it worked, but it was supposed to be a true lock type. That bit about the handlebars is correct, I believe you engaged it from the bar, but something doesn't sound right about "the more you pull the lever, the more it locks". I'll see if I can find that letter, or get ahold of a reliable source who would know for sure.
Hey Bill, I think you're the only one to actually have seen one so far-on this posting anyway, did you get a closeup of the front diff/engagement? Did they explain it at all to you? And, how's the 'Cat working out for you so far???
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
TexMud:
It looks like there should be a post sometime around 10:16 or so a.m., just after this one you made, though there is an error message-see site administrator note where the post should be, so I have no idea what it said. How knows, maybe it had the answer to the question.
Anyway, yeah, I knew it was lever activated, but I didn't realize it was a "variable control" type. I could very well have mis-read the original, in which case you could very well be right on the money there. I thought I had saved that letter on the computer, but it's not on this one, so I'm assuming it's on the other machine. I'll see if I can find it.
One other question though-If indeed it is a "variable control", with the rider able to "select how much torque to send to the tires", how in the hell would that work? It seems to me that a "locker" is either "locked", or "unlocked", isn't it? I didn't realize you could have an inbetween state, deciding how much power you need at each wheel. I don't know, that just sounds kind of silly doesn't it? Say you're climbing a nasty muddy trail, with your left front kind of up in the air spinning and your right buried in the slop doing nothing, as is the case with a lot of limited slips. Now, by the sounds of this "variable control", you would be able to pull the lever slightly, sending some amount of torque to the stuck tire, taking some away from the one spinning madly. Now, as it is variable control, adjusted by the rider and how hard he pulls, what happens to that power that was taken from the spinning tire that was supposed to go to the stuck tire? Now, pull harder back to send more power to the tire-as described by the article there, and the stuck tire now has equal power-I'm assuming-as the one that was spinning madly, so now they should both be receiving equal amounts of power and get you out of the bind and make it up the trial.
This sounds rather interesting, but I sure as hell don't understand how it works! I'm probably just thinking out my rear end with this one, but that scenario is the best I could come up with right now. Either way, a locker of any kind would be awesome for sure for total 4 wheel drive. Oh hey, please don't think I'm trying to argue with you here, I'm basically thinking out loud. And, basically, I don't get it! Heh Heh heh.
Take care,
Mike
Posted by: TEXMud
cowboy, do some searching in the Kawisaki forum on here. The front differential is not a true locking one. There is a lever the handlebars that you pull to help "lock" the front diff. The harder you pull, the more it is "locked".
Posted by: TEXMud
cowboy, if you can find that letter let me know. The lever thing was mentioned in one of the magazines a while back and has been posted a lot in the Kawi forum. Like I stated, I was just repeating what I heard. I would love to see it have a locker!
Posted by: TEXMud
Well, after reading some posts, I think I stated it wrong. Here are some posts that talk about it:
http://forums.atvconnection.com/thread.cfm?CFB=1&TID=184641&origpost=184767
http://forums.atvconnection.com/thread.cfm?CFB=1&TID=156534&origpost=158110
http://forums.atvconnection.com/thread.cfm?CFB=1&TID=164910&origpost=165378
http://forums.atvconnection.com/thread.cfm?CFB=1&TID=148342&origpost=153168
http://forums.atvconnection.com/thread.cfm?CFB=1&TID=141779&origpost=142371
http://forums.atvconnection.com/thread.cfm?CFB=1&TID=177088&origpost=177458
Posted by: TEXMud
After reading todays main article on www.atvconnection.com, I am back to my original statement. Here is a quote from it:
"Rider-actuated variable front differential control maximizes power to both front wheels. Lever operation allows rider to adjust the amount of torque to suit conditions."
Here is the article: http://www.atvconnection.com/atvconnection/Features/news/kawasaki650press1.cfm
Posted by: girthyguy
I personally think its great. Alloys are awesome, light wieght super strong. Just look at the MX or XC quads there frames take a pounding more then what most of us would ever do to our big 4x4 quads. And they last. Most times better then what steel would. Look at every other industry alloys have been in use for a long time. LOok a dirt bikes, you see them guys taking 80 foot longs jumps 30 feet high, over and over. you d ont see the bikes buckling. I like the idea. Will it be for all quads, NO. You do need wieght in work quads. If they get to light you going to have a hard time pushing or pulling. But for a purely recrational quad its perfect.
matty
Posted by: derrick12
I think you are missing the big flick. Aluminum alloys are to the point where the tensile strength meets or exceeds that of steel, expecially if it is forged aluminum (not cnc machined) like the kawi's swingarm is. I personally can't wait to trade in my kawi 300 4x4 for the soon to be atv of the year. It's about time aluminum alloys become mainstream materials
Posted by: TEXASCAT
when i was considering an atv i originally planned on buying a kaw 650, but, after reading its tech specs, i am glad i got the 500 ac. i agree aluminum is strong and lightweight but it ain't near as strong as steel of comparable dimension. i don't mind the aluminum engine but an alum. swing arm is another matter. for something that takes such extreme abuse as a rear axle, i would prefer steel over alum. if the 650 does anything, i think it will raise the bar a little and spur other atv manufacturers to make a similar but better product.
just a redneck thought,
texascat
Posted by: TEXASCAT
derrick12,
you are correct that alum. has a tensile strength equal to or greater than steel but that high t.s also makes it more brittle. for example, a grade 8 bolt is stronger than a grade 5 bolt, but if the grade 8 bolt is not tightened properly it will break whereas the grade 5 will stretch and bend. also what happens in the event of breakage of an aluminum alloy part?? i worked for a welder for 8 years and whenever someone broke a forged aluminum part the probability of restoring its structural integrity was unlikely. as for me, i'm a steelhead, i've been around steel since i could crawl and there is nothing anyone can say that will sway my confidence in steel.
by the way does the 650 have a hitch??
texascat
Posted by: ROMAN
It is a true locking diff. according to 4 Wheel Atv Action December issue. It states, "...you can also lock the front differential for true four wheel drive."
