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Posted by: ATV_MAN
The Yamaha Kodiak is a nice mid sized atv, Auto, liquid cooled, independant suspension (on the 450 model), diff lock(450 model). The Kodiaks are known for their great reliability, the Auto is run by a Yamaha belt system which is very relibale In my opinion, you will not need a belt change for a long time(years). The difflock on the 450 is good depending on what kind of terrain you will be riding on, I see that you said "mud running thrown in" I dont think you would need the difflock as much, but like you said the difflock is nice to have, and you will thank yourself for getting the difflock when your in a deep hole miles away from help. The Kodiak comes as a 400cc model(4wd, with NO difflock), or a 450(421cc) with difflcok and independant rear suspension(smoother ride over bumps). I would also look at a Kodiak if I were you.
Posted by: jaybeecon55
The Kawi will fit more on the utility side of ute, while the Eiger will tend to be more sporty. I narrowed my choice down to these same two and since I do mostly recreational riding, I went with the Eiger.
No doubt that having a front locker is better than not having one, but I've gotten stuck in mudholes like everyone else - I've also made it through mudholes where other bikes with a locker got stuck.
Ride them both and see how they feel to you - that's the biggest test.
Jaybee
Posted by: CaptainQuint
Having had ATVs with and without lockers I will now not buy a new one without a locker. They are that important. Nothing more frustrating than to have that front wheel out in space or in the mud or otherwise without traction and spinning uselessly while the other is sitting motionless. To me, that's the whole point of having a 4x4 is to have all four wheels moving and clawing for traction not three. (yeah I know we're getting into mechanical semantics here but you know what I mean)
Get the locker. You won't regret it. Don't get the locker and some day, trust me.....you will regret it.
Posted by: CaptainQuint
As a fourtrax 300 fan, (fan heck, fanatic. I love mine to death and it is due to be lovingly restored to it's former like new glory next winter) I'll say this, it's crippled without one. It simply can't go the places that it could go with one. When I first came across an ATV with a locker I knew how crippled my 300 really was. When the going gets rough or muddy or slick or whatever you're driving a three wheel drive ATV and there is no getting around that fact. Yes you can compensate a bit and use some little tricks but in the end you don't have a locker and you're not going where you could with one. At least where I ride it makes a huge difference. Maybe for others it doesn't.
I know a Honda dealer that has been screaming at his Honda reps about this for years. He keeps telling them he is losing sales due to the fact that they don't offer a locker. They say customers don't want it and then start spouting about their torque sensing blah blah blah but customers don't buy it. They know it's bull. He knows it's bull. Yes he still sells a raft of Hondas but he loses a huge number of sales because they don't have a simple locker. He yells at them all the time about two things. Lockers and low ranges. Lockers especially. They just tell him “Well, look at all the units you sold last year you're the leader in X...” They just don't get it.
Posted by: hondabuster
The rear barke on the prairie is also much better than the one the eiger has.
If you ever plan on riding in snow, and it gets deep, youll need a locker in front. Seeing how youre in a warmer area, youre probably more interested in the mud. Youll find out, that the irs quads will do better in the mud, even with out a locker in front. Its all about ground clearance, and not getting hung up and high centered. Once that happens, a locker wont help. Neither of your choices has irs.
99% of the time, both of those quads can do the leading or following, and go where the other went. Driver ability has alot to do with how far you make it. The other 1% of the time the locker has the advantage.
The kawi system works really good, and is progressive, and can be applied on the move...no need to stop spinning to engage the locker. Id say it gets down to ...do you want an auto or gear shift. Kawi is auto only, and the eiger can be had with either. Both have different types of cvts. The eiger has a belt in constant tension, and its not a wear item. The engine braking is much better on the eiger too, and the case which sticks out on the side, is slimmer on the eiger.
Both have good motors, and are good choices...you cant really go wrong on either one.
my 2 cents
Posted by: hondabuster
Heres what it gets down to , about the locker. Will you be alone most of the time or with other quads?
If youre gonna ride in a group, bring along a tow strap and thats just as good as a locker...well actually better, because a quad with a locker can still get stuck. Then if you plan on riding alone..get a winch. That way you can just go off the prices and features of the two quads, and be just as secure, kowing youll get out of a mud hole. Try to work the price of the winch into the price of the quad when you buy it. Lots of times itll be discounted if you buy at the same time
Posted by: Catterman
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Originally posted by: RickW
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Originally posted by: v2rider
Or look at AC, they have the highest ground clearance, and a top rated 4x4 and diff locker system
I have been, & I believe that's why I haven't picked up a Prairie 360 already.
I can get an '07 AC 500 Auto for $6720 OTD. There was one 06 400 Auto left ($5670 OTD), but that was over a week ago.
With a machine as heavy as a Cat, I personally would have better peace of mind with the 500 over the 400. Plus, the 500 is liquid-cooled, as many members have stated as being a benefit.
The 500 is more powerful then the 400. I used to own a 400, and it was great. Only reason I sold it was because a friend liked it so much and offered me a price I couldn't refuse. Neither is going to blow your mind when you are on a trail, but they will do great in the mud. The 500 would turn the tires better in the thick stuff though. Good luck.
As for a diff-lock, I think I only used my once, but they say it is like a condom, when you don't have one is when you really need one.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
I use my locker often on my BF750 and I used it even more on my 700 prairie b/c of the lack of ground clearance. The locker is a great tool to have. My brother has the kawie 360 4x4 prairie and he uses the locker too. It has helped him get out of areas where he has "high centered" the quad. However, an IRS quad without a locker does pretty good too, b/c of the extra ground clearance. The kawie 360 will have better low end power, but the eiger 400 will have better mid and upper end power. I have heard that the eiger 376cc motor is bullet proof and one of the top motors for that class. My brothers 360 4x4 prairie tops out at 44mph by gps. I believe the eiger tops out about 52mph. As far as reliability, both should be very good. And as far as price, you are probably looking at the two lowest priced mid size 4x4's. I know the honda rancher 4x4 is in the same price range, but the local honda dealers here will not take off the MSRP $1 and they add about $400 for prep and crap like that, which boost the price up. My local kawie dealer sells their prairie 360 4x4 OTD at $4700. Good luck and let us know what you buy. To, you really can't go wrong with either.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: hondabuster
Heres what it gets down to , about the locker. Will you be alone most of the time or with other quads?
If youre gonna ride in a group, bring along a tow strap and thats just as good as a locker...well actually better, because a quad with a locker can still get stuck. Then if you plan on riding alone..get a winch. That way you can just go off the prices and features of the two quads, and be just as secure, kowing youll get out of a mud hole. Try to work the price of the winch into the price of the quad when you buy it. Lots of times itll be discounted if you buy at the same time
Good points, however I don't think a quad that doesn't have a locker but a tow strap is better. You still have to take time getting of the quad and hooking up to the stuck one and pulling him out before the group can continue on. That is not to say a locker quad will not get stuck, but it helps more than some people realize. And, if a quad with a locker gets stuck while riding with a group, you still can pull out the tow strap. But ofter the locker will get you through. A good example is my aunts 650 rincon. When I ride it and get into a deep rut, it becomes the wonderful 3 wheel drive. There is no way around it. I have tapped on the breaks like others have said and it doesn't help. Only three wheels spin. My bf750 does the same thing UNTIL I pull the locker then the front wheels hook up at the same time and pulls me out. This is just an example and nothing about dogging the rincon. My aunts rincon rides so much better than my bf750, but this was the comparison of having a locker vs not having one.
Posted by: Hebs
The diff-lock has been the #1 reason several of my friends have gotten rid of their honda's and switched to something with a dif-lock... I can't count the amount of times I've seen them struggle to get up a hill, or out of an uneven hole, just because the tire in the air is the one spinning... not the one on the ground. Of course I was there all the while, poking fun at them for having a 3x4.... and then pulling them out. If you're hauling a deer out of a ravine w/a non dif-lock machine... you could be in for a long day of cussin at the quad...
You can be cheap and get what ya want... but you'll still pay for it in the end... 1 way or the other...
A nibble 05 - 06 Kodiak 450... will do much better, and shouldn't cost much more than 5K, now a days...
somethings just aren't worth cutting corners on...
Posted by: Hebs
No... I didn't get stuck in that hole... (took a lot of rockin, but I made it) It was my 06 Griz... but I only had the stock tires on then...
Posted by: oldturtle
If price were not such a big factor then most would agree that the full featured Yamaha 450 Kodiak (now 450 Grizzly) would be hard to top. At this time Yamaha will toss in a $400. Warn winch for only $69.95 plus they will add 18 months to the standard 6 month warranty for a total of 24 months of full factory warranty. In California if your credit is solid dealers are also offering 6 months zero down, zero payments, same as cash. Go with the 450 Grizzly and you will not need to wait plus you will definetly not have regrets about not having diff lock or about not getting what you really wanted. The agony of living with something you really did not want will last a lot longer then the thrill of getting a low price.
Posted by: oldturtle
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Originally posted by: MotoF150
My 2006 Suzuki Eiger, manual has a "Torque-sensing limited-slip front differential"..... .....I was told by the dealer... it works just as good as any "diff lock"....
In the 18 months +/- that I was researching 4WD drive quads before I purchased one I was told so many different things by dealers and dealers salesmen. My conclusion is that these guys just don't understand what they are selling or will say anything to make a sale. Even the factories hold back on the truth by some combination of trick equipment made to show their own limited slip in the best light. In most situations these various limited slip front ends work just fine. But in extreme conditions such as big solid rock or deepest mud a real full time diff lock is often better according to a huge majority of opinions I have received. Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and AC at least are more honest in admitting that you get automatic limited slip 3 wheel drive when operating in std 4WD without difflock. Honda dealers usually try to avoid the subject alltogether since they have no diff lock quad. So IMO nothing available will work as well in ALL CONDITIONS as a real full time diff lock where an experienced rider can make the decision to engage when necessary. There are many very good riders who do just fine in some pretty nasty situations with only limited slip front ends. In fact rider ability, experience, courage, etc. are usually more important than fancy features. With my inexperience, lack of courage, and lack of ability I decided to get all the help I could get.
Posted by: TexasRoadlawyer
Rick-
You might try calling some other dealerships, namely ones in Tennessee of all places, where they have the highest ATV per capita sales in the US or did a couple of years ago. I have heard of several folks who have made the trip there from other states to get better deals on ATVs of all different brands...even with traveling expenses figured in they still save several hundred dollars. There is a dealership in East Texas that is reknowned for making extraordinary deals, and by letting a Honda dealer in Austin (central texas) know that I knew of the East TExas dealer, I was offered a significantly lower price.
Might be worth a call/haul
Posted by: propnut
IMO, Do not exclude the machine you want just because it does not have a locker.
Yes, a locker is an asset, but not a necessity.
Posted by: propnut
$6299 + tax (maybe a few bucks off for a basic 06 Kodiak) isn't just a little more than the $5K cash limit he mentioned, but a very nice machine. Worth it if you can swing it.
Getting back within the budget however (I stuck to mine too), If you buy a machine (the one that you don't really wan't) primarily for feature that you'll use (very generously) 10% of the time, the other 90% you'll probably be disappointed. Think about it, how many people bought the Fourtrax 300 when compared to the King Quad 300? How did they get by without a locker?
Hey Hebs, did you get stuck in that puddle (on your photo page) before you got a locker? (that can't be a Grizz, right? with a locker and 589s?).
Posted by: ForemanDan
Buy what you want. You can add a locker later if you decide you need it. Detroit Gearless lockers are only a couple hundred bucks. They may not make them for all models so you should check.
Posted by: Grumpy2
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Originally posted by: RickW
Went to the local Bass Pro Shops today & looked at the AC 400 4x4. Man that ground clearance is awesome. They're asking $5800, though, and won't negotiate the price.
Initially, most riding will be simply getting around the hunting club (2000 acres). This is my first year as a member, I haven't been stationed in Virginia in 10 years, and know practically nothing about anything West of Norfolk. As this is hunting season, no real playing. It may snow (South Central Virginia), but, I don't know how much. The trails are all pretty well kept (tobacco/soybean farm), and I'm not sure if there are any dedicated ATV trails on the land.
Even after hunting season, though, I don't honestly know how much or what kind of riding I'll be doing. Mostly still stay around the club.
I'd like to keep the price to below $5000 OTD, so I can pay cash & be done with it. Call me cheap if you will, I want the most bang for my buck.
I realize that I'll probably want a bigger machine in the future, and if I could afford one now I'd probably buy it instead. But, I can't. I really need (need - such a subjective word) one for this hunting season so I have to make my decision in the next week.
And the used market around here sucks!
If you don't need a locker, why not look at an '06 Honda Rancher 4X4. The '07 will be out soon and the dealers are selling the '06 Rancher way under list price.
Posted by: rpxr400
I have an '05 BF650 with SRA. The only time I've ever been stuck was in a deep water hole where I high centered in the ruts.
Other than that, I've been with Foremans (2) and a Rincon that I've towed out numerous times. Also, there's a stream we went up and my BF made it farther than anybody else before it just for impassible for any quad.
Sure, some of the mud abilitles are helped by the tires, but I'm positive the locker is what got me the farthest up that stream, and through the mud in many cases. Funny story - my buddy was stuck in some of the stickiest stuff I've ever been in. My BF was going through without a lot of effort, and he kept getting stuck - pi$$es that he kept getting stuck. When I was coming around him for like the 4th time to tow him out, I couldn't resist. I pulled past, then in front of him and just nailed the gas!! Man - it rained muck, and he got covered. It was hilarious.
The P360 is a great machine - it's the li'l brother to the BF650 SRA. The only thing that steered me to the 650 was that I had heard the Prairie tops out at like 40. After having my BF for a year now, I don't go over 40 mph often at all - just on wide, open dirt roads where we open them up.
I don't know if the Eiger also has a sealed rear brake, but that was another strong point of the P/BF.
Posted by: rpxr400
If you're going to be playing in the mud, I'd say you should get a quad with a locker, and IRS for better ground clearance.
love my Kawi, and I'd say to look for a leftover BF650i or well maintained used one. Now is the time you can get good leftover deals.
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Truth be told, a 2WD 250 would probably handle my chores 95% of the time. But, that's not what I want, because I do like to play in the mud when I can. I may still end up getting a 2WD 250, but, I'm not gonna buy it just to have an ATV.
Posted by: rpxr400
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Originally posted by: RickW
As I said in an earlier post, local dealers (Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha) do not want to budge from MSRP and I can't find any leftover '06 models either.
Rick,
You're in VA - not terribly far from PA. If you don't mind a road trip, I got $1000 off MSRP on my '05 KFX400, and also $1000 off on my BF650. Both leftovers, bought from different dealers. I paid $4899 for my KFX, and $5899 + tax for my BF.
I can give you several dealer names if you want. I'm in Northeastern PA. Also, since you'll be buying out of state, you won't have to pay sales tax.
Rick
Posted by: rpxr400
Rick,
I do believe that's the case. I bought both of my AVs in NJ, and I live in PA. I didn't have to pay sales tax on them.
In PA, if I were to register it, I'd have to pay the tax then. Here, you have to have ATV registration of you're riding the state forests.
Posted by: James1701
Why not test ride a Polaris Hawkeye. IRS, 4x4 with locked front end, for only about 4200. Its not a speed machine at 42 mph, but its a nice utility quad.
Posted by: v2rider
The front locker is well worth it!! Ive used it a few times, and its a life saver. AC also has a midsize atv class, but kawi, and the others are good atvs also.
Posted by: v2rider
Or look at AC, they have the highest ground clearance, and a top rated 4x4 and diff locker system
Posted by: MotoF150
My 2006 Suzuki Eiger, manual has a "Torque-sensing limited-slip front differential", Im not sure if the older models of the Eiger has the same. The Dealer has a roller rack test stand that all 4 wheels spin and when either front wheel is blocked the Eiger will climb that block. I was told by the dealer the front diff consists of a spring loaded centrificial fiber disc plate that will grab the oppisite axle when the front tire spins, and I was told it works just as good as any "diff lock". I have yet to test out my Eiger in deep snow, but it performed excellent thru deep mud and water, climbing rocks and climbing downed trees.
Posted by: SBuckJ
I had mine narrowed down between the Eiger and the 450 Kodiak. The thing that made the difference to me was the Diff lock on the kodiak. That being said...how often are you going to encounter DEEP mud? If not often I think the Eiger would be best for you. If frequent, then maybe the Kodiak 450 is for you. Remember...it depends on your type of riding as much as it does the machine.
Buck
Posted by: SBuckJ
It sounds like the Eiger is the machine for you if money is the main objective. They are a good machine at a great price. I think it would be hard for you to find a new machine with a locker at the price you're looking at. If you definitely want the locker maybe you should look around at used ATV's. There are some good deals out there.
Buck
Posted by: Scott3710
I have an 04 3604x4 and never had a problem with it. I ride it pretty hard and have used the locking diff feature a few times. It has saved me from having to use my winch. It is not a very fast ATV, but very reliable IMO. No matter what ATV you buy I would get a winch, it is a great tool especially if you ride alone and in my case my buddies have 2wd and I am alway helping them with it.
I also like the brakes on it, I can crawl down hills and I seem to have better control of it.
Posted by: mrtwostroke
ya don't get confused the only thing 4x4 on a honda is that sticker on the side
Posted by: RickW
Hello!
Great site here.
I'm planning on buying a new ATV here real soon (within the next three weeks). This will be my first ATV of my own, though I'm not unfamiliar with them. Growing up, I've ridden everything from the original Honda 90, up thru the 200X, 250R, and 350X, to Warriors and Banshees. Thing is, up 'til now I've been able to borrow one from family members when needed.
My riding will be pretty limited to riding around the hunting club, with some mild trail riding & mud running thrown in. No jumping or powerslides on the agenda, but the mud could get seat deep. I want a mid-size 4x4, auto or auto-clutch. I've pretty much narrowed it down, by reading through reviews on this site & based on dealers prices and local availability, to the following (with listed prices, before tt&l):
Kawasaki Prairie 360 ($4399), or the Suzuki Eiger 400 5-speed ($4499).
Now to the questions: How many of y'all with locking front diffs actually use this feature and how often? I understand that it's "nice to have", but, should I use this as a deal maker or deal breaker for a particular ATV? For my type of riding, do I "need" the diff lock?
For some reason, I keep getting pulled towards the Prairie. I think because of price and the fact that it has the variable front diff. The Eiger 5-speed is within $100, though, and most reviews have it as a noticeably more powerful machine, albeit without diff lock (or in this case auto). I've never had an auto so it's not like I'll be missing anything.
Thanks for any input.
Posted by: RickW
Went to the local Bass Pro Shops today & looked at the AC 400 4x4. Man that ground clearance is awesome. They're asking $5800, though, and won't negotiate the price.
Initially, most riding will be simply getting around the hunting club (2000 acres). This is my first year as a member, I haven't been stationed in Virginia in 10 years, and know practically nothing about anything West of Norfolk. As this is hunting season, no real playing. It may snow (South Central Virginia), but, I don't know how much. The trails are all pretty well kept (tobacco/soybean farm), and I'm not sure if there are any dedicated ATV trails on the land.
Even after hunting season, though, I don't honestly know how much or what kind of riding I'll be doing. Mostly still stay around the club.
I'd like to keep the price to below $5000 OTD, so I can pay cash & be done with it. Call me cheap if you will, I want the most bang for my buck.
I realize that I'll probably want a bigger machine in the future, and if I could afford one now I'd probably buy it instead. But, I can't. I really need (need - such a subjective word) one for this hunting season so I have to make my decision in the next week.
And the used market around here sucks!
Posted by: RickW
I think that's my problem - trying to decide whether I need a locker or not.
Posted by: RickW
Well, my local dealers are really balking at coming down from MSRP on any models they have on the floor.
I can't see spending $5100 (plus all the other add on dealer costs) for a 360, when I can get an 07 Arctic Cat 400 for $5899. According to the salesman at Bass Pro, the only money paid over their listed price is sales tax, so that would put the AC 400 @ $6200 OTD.
This is slightly higher than what I've budgeted either way. I may end up having to wait a few more months. I don't really like the idea of financing a toy.
Still looking for a good used ATV, as well as looking at some out of area dealers.
Posted by: RickW
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Originally posted by: oldturtle
The agony of living with something you really did not want will last a lot longer then the thrill of getting a low price.
I have not a made any decisions yet, and this is the very reason why.
While I've said (& truthfully at that) that I'm no speed demon, I want to ensure that the machine will have enough power for deep sticky mud when I go home (Mississippi Delta).
Also, I'm not 100% sure of the types of trails that will be available to me at the hunting club, or at any other local places. I'm heading out to the hunting club Saturday for the first day of bow season & will scout around more then.
Hopefully, some of the other members will also be around and will have 4-wheelers that I can ride on before I make a final commitment.
Truth be told, a 2WD 250 would probably handle my chores 95% of the time. But, that's not what I want, because I do like to play in the mud when I can. I may still end up getting a 2WD 250, but, I'm not gonna buy it just to have an ATV.
Posted by: RickW
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Originally posted by: v2rider
Or look at AC, they have the highest ground clearance, and a top rated 4x4 and diff locker system
I have been, & I believe that's why I haven't picked up a Prairie 360 already.
I can get an '07 AC 500 Auto for $6720 OTD. There was one 06 400 Auto left ($5670 OTD), but that was over a week ago.
With a machine as heavy as a Cat, I personally would have better peace of mind with the 500 over the 400. Plus, the 500 is liquid-cooled, as many members have stated as being a benefit.
Posted by: RickW
I really did have my mind made up to get the 360 until I got a look at the AC's.
The ground clearance and a 6.5 gallon gas tank made start having second thoughts.
As I said in an earlier post, local dealers (Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha) do not want to budge from MSRP and I can't find any leftover '06 models either.
I'm not gonna decide anything until after the first week of hunting season. See what the other guys are riding, and under what conditions.
Posted by: RickW
I'm hoping that as hunting season starts up here, more of the guys at the hunting camp will bring their quads and I can test ride them.
I just hope they don't all have big-bore machines.
Posted by: RickW
Thanks Rick.
No hurry at the moment, want to try to find a few different models to test ride first.
Also, I just got to thinking about that sales tax....
I'm a Florida resident stationed in Virginia, so I shouldn't have to pay sales tax here, either. Right?
Stupid question time. Do you have to register an ATV like a vehicle?
