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Posted by: 95wolv
Has any one seen the new Dirt Wheels? a Polaris DVD comes with it, loaded with "proof" that Polaris is far above any ATV made. I want to state at the beginning, this is NOT a Polaris bash thread, I could care less what any one drives, as long as they are happy with it, more power to you. What this is about is the self serving, half truths and one sided garbage I saw viewing this DVD. In every catagory, from 800 cc on down, Polaris was the "undisputed" winner in power,handling,4wd systems, and rider comfort. The one thing I found almost humurous was the constant harping they did about how the riders foot "suffered" on the other brands "uncomfortable" raised foot pegs, and all other independent suspensions came no where near working as well as theirs. In the competitions, a steeple chase, rolling block (rollers on 3 wheels to test 4wd) and sled pull, the Polaris was the victor by a large margin in all catgories, what I found curious was the time trials on the steeple chase, if you kept track of all times, every Polaris,down to the 450 Sportsman, was faster than the 800 Outlander !!! All other quads were slammed for "inferior 2 star" (I guess that means 2 ply) tires, poor traction, unforgiving suspension, and lack of power.
I'm sorry for the rant, but with that video still fresh in my mind, I don't know whether to laugh or burn it, is Polaris so hard up they had to pay Dirt Wheels to push their DVD?
Once again, nothing personal to those who ride, I am not brand fanatic, I have Yamaha and Honda quads, I drive GMC trucks, Ford cars, because those are what work for me and give me what I want,regardless of brand name. It's just when one brand stands on a soap box and brays about how worthless all other brands are, I get a little flustered.
My apologies to anyone I may have offended, and now I am done !!!
Posted by: 95wolv
No, they were very careful not to do a direct head to head competition, the time trials were one at a time, over a course that started over rocks, then a water hole, a medium log, then a quick dirt run with a 90 degree turn then up a hill. They blamed the "poor handling" and "excessive wheelspin" to the slow time of the Outlander 800, saying it was due to the "inferior" 4wd system, which is also the same reasons they used in the sled pull, by the way, you should have seen how they ripped on the Brute Force 750, almost claiming it was unsafe on rough trails, and that the diff lock lever on the handlebars was "too complex and unneeded steps" for getting over the rolling block obstacle. I assumed with that system, you lost traction, you squeeze a lever, you lock up the front, you get traction, how complex is that ???? What they didn't tell you is that the Polaris system deals with the slip sensor for the back wheels,which then has to electrically lock the front hubs, if everything is working properly, and you service the fluid in the hubs and keep it in working order ( sorry, not a slam on Polaris,just making a point) Now which one sounds more complex?? yes, the Polaris works automatically at the push of a button, but depends on sensors, electrical parts and special hubs, relying on a lot of different parts to work together at the same time. They also railed on Can Am, saying it takes too long to "pump up" the front Visco-Lok to be much help. The last test was the "post run", posts layed at angles to work the front and rear suspension, while the Polarises had "no problem" with it, all others "punished" the riders and was "dangerous" at any speed .
I must say, I am glad to see others that see this for what it is, and I'm also glad the Polaris owners haven't opened fire on me, for as I said, I'm not against Polaris, or any other brand, just against one sided, almost lies that are used to sell any product.
Posted by: 95wolv
Thank you for clearing that up, BryceGTX, I'm no expert on all quad drive systems, I guess I wasn't 100 % sure on the exact way the Polaris AWD worked, I was just trying to compare what they DVD said was so "complex and unnecessary " about the other drive systems.
Now that I think of it, there was one big test they left out, steep down hill control, you'd think with the new ADC ( active decent control) , they would have been really pushing that, as well. But, as stated above, any manufacturer can make their product look "perfect" as long as they are doing the testing. What I would like to see is an outside group get a sample from all the manufacturers out there and do and apples to apples test, and have them show the results from that, until then, we will all have to make our own decisions based on our experiences and preferences.
Posted by: GE4x4
I like Polaris in all, but that DVD was a joke. Those were not real world results. The only company video that I've seen to be pretty acurate was the BRP challenge. Head to Head and it didn't look like anyone was milking it. Not saying they didn't, but I've been on a 800 and they are powerful.
Posted by: ShadyRascal
I'm not a Polaris guy but that DVD is a pretty good sales tool. The Outlaw looked real good actually, and if I rode these rocky mountain trails around here rather than sand dunes I'd probably look into one.
You always gotta take this stuff with a grain of salt but you gotta admit they did make a good presentation.
They should have had a category of "how dang far are your feet spread apart to clear the CVT".
Posted by: Scooter86
I really thought the steeple chase was very telling. After watching most of the classes, I was left wondering how even the 450 Sportsman could conquer the course faster than any of the open class quads except the other Polaris entries. Also, in the sport section, they only ran a few small sections of extremely rocky terrain. It wasn't anything close to a real world test where the majority of us ride. I also had to laugh because they praised the Outlaw on superior jump landings and takeoffs, yet never even showed video of anything BUT the Outlaw on a jump! I really don't take any of these marketing DVDs seriously, though they do make good entertainment. I wonder why they didn't include the 500 or 650 Outlanders in the comparisons?
Posted by: Scooter86
bigike, I agree whole heartedly, reviews are opinion and those promotional DVDs should have Billy Mayes in there somewheres spouting off about Kaboom or something, lol. I will say you don't need to be very observant to see the marketing slant in either video. The absence of certain models in both the Polaris and BRP comparos is glaring. The only difference worth mentionong is the Can-AM vid used more real world test scenarios, like a head to head drag race(who ever does that anymore?) A mud bog run, and a handling course that gave more believable times. Because there was a lot of slowing down for obstacles on the Polaris vid, I highly distrust there elapsed times. Hard to believe the Rancher and 680 Rincon would have similar elapsed times, and a few of the 400/500 class machines even beat it.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: trvman
it is so funny that whoever sponsers the test is always the best nothing bad about there atv just what's wrong with every one eles's
You are correct. If you go to the Can-Am site, they show the bomb800 blowing away the pol800 and the kawie750. Then at the polaris site, they show the pol800 blowing away the bomb800 and the kawie750. It is call munipulative advertising. Everyone does it. They hope to get comsumers who don't know all the facts to believe their brand is the best, so they buy one. I personally like polaris even though I own a kawie bf750. However, some of the test are lame. They avoide test that have their quads not in 1st place. That way, the uninformed consumer believes they are buying the best. That is not to say polaris or Can-Am is not the best. But the bottom line all comsumers must remember it the following:
There is no manufacture that makes the "best" quad for every situation.
The comsumer must consider what they want from a quad and then investigate the facts from spec sheets and forums like this one before they purchase.
Always be cautious when someone says their product or quad they own is the best by putting down other quads in certain categories.
Some quads perform better in certain situations than others. And that same quad might be out performed by other quads in other situations. But, if there is really a quad out there that is the "best" in all situations, every one would have bought it by now. Instead, we buy based on what we need (want) and what information we know.
Ultimately the bottom line is this:
"Figures can lie........and liars can figure!"
This says that you can manulipate the data to make your product better than others.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
Another thing that I thought about is in the race up the hill. It looks like the same driver, however we don't know if he was told to "lay off the gas a little" on the other quads to make their times slower. The only true way to be objective is to get a group of independent riders and do a series of competitions and comparisons with each bike. Then do it again 4 more times with 4 more different groups. That way, if there is a bias group toward one quad, those results can be thrown out. Basically calculating the upper and lower limits of the statistical data. Also, including several different groups increases the population sample size. The bottom line is each manufacture will always make others look bad in trying to show how good their quad is. If kawie or honda or suzuki or yamaha did it, they would all do the same thing. Remember, they don't want to make a "PROGRESSIVE INSURANCE" commerical. You know, saying that they might be the best and might not be, but will show you anyway because they are just good people. All they want to do is make you convinenced that buying their quad will be the best purchase you ever made and that all other quads are inferior. Just take it for what it is.....a sales gimic pich.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: GrnXnham
It wasn't just Dirt Wheels that had this DVD. I got it with QUAD magazine as well.
For me the comparison between the Hawkeye 300 4X4 and the Honda Recon 250 and Suzuki Ozark 250 drove me nuts (We have Ozarks)
They showed the Hawkeye 4X4 beating the Recon and Ozark in every possible way. Of course what they somehow failed to mention is that the Hawkeye is closer in class to the Honda Rancher 350 and Kawasaki Prairie 360.
Why? Look at the price. The Hawkeye is closer in price to the Rancher and Prairie than to the Ozark and Recon. They only compare it to the Recon and Ozark because it is a 300cc machine BUT the Hawkeye has IRS and 4WD so there is no way that the Ozark and Recon can compete with the Hawkeye in comfort and mudding ability. But they are a lot cheaper than the Hawkeye. C'mon Polaris, give me a break!
To be more fair, they should have compared the Hawkeye to a couple of the 350 class machines out there instead of 250's. The 350's are more likely to have the nice features like 4WD and better suspension. But Polaris couldn't do that because the only machines they could find that the Hawkeye could beat in all of these categories were the basic 250 models.
Bottom line:
When making comparisons only machines of very similar PRICE should be compared not just the engine size.
You are correct. Like I have said, they will always make their quad better buy making the test in their favor, comparing to lower class quads, or just passing out false information. Remember......Figures can lie and liars can figure.
Posted by: GrnXnham
It wasn't just Dirt Wheels that had this DVD. I got it with QUAD magazine as well.
For me the comparison between the Hawkeye 300 4X4 and the Honda Recon 250 and Suzuki Ozark 250 drove me nuts (We have Ozarks)
They showed the Hawkeye 4X4 beating the Recon and Ozark in every possible way. Of course what they somehow failed to mention is that the Hawkeye is closer in class to the Honda Rancher 350 and Kawasaki Prairie 360.
Why? Look at the price. The Hawkeye is closer in price to the Rancher and Prairie than to the Ozark and Recon. They only compare it to the Recon and Ozark because it is a 300cc machine BUT the Hawkeye has IRS and 4WD so there is no way that the Ozark and Recon can compete with the Hawkeye in comfort and mudding ability. But they are a lot cheaper than the Hawkeye. C'mon Polaris, give me a break!
To be more fair, they should have compared the Hawkeye to a couple of the 350 class machines out there instead of 250's. The 350's are more likely to have the nice features like 4WD and better suspension. But Polaris couldn't do that because the only machines they could find that the Hawkeye could beat in all of these categories were the basic 250 models.
Bottom line:
When making comparisons only machines of very similar PRICE should be compared not just the engine size.
Posted by: GrnXnham
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Originally posted by: BryceGTX
Quote
For me the comparison between the Hawkeye 300 4X4 and the Honda Recon 250 and Suzuki Ozark 250 drove me nuts (We have Ozarks)
They showed the Hawkeye 4X4 beating the Recon and Ozark in every possible way. Of course what they somehow failed to mention is that the Hawkeye is closer in class to the Honda Rancher 350 and Kawasaki Prairie 360.
Why? Look at the price. The Hawkeye is closer in price to the Rancher and Prairie than to the Ozark and Recon. They only compare it to the Recon and Ozark because it is a 300cc machine BUT the Hawkeye has IRS and 4WD so there is no way that the Ozark and Recon can compete with the Hawkeye in comfort and mudding ability. But they are a lot cheaper than the Hawkeye. C'mon Polaris, give me a break!
Are you sure it wasn't a two wheel drive Hawkeye? The two wheel drive Hawkeye is $3899. The Recon ES is $3849 and the Ozark is $3499. This sounds like a valid comparison to me. All two wheel drive, all similar price range. But the Hawkeye with IRS, disc brakes all around and more suspension travel makes a compelling argument to me.
I agree with you that if they had compared the 2WD Hawkeye the comparison would have been fair but in one segment on the DVD they show the Hawkeye going through some mud and the narrator says something like: "With 4WD the Hawkeye can go places that the Ozark and Recon owners can only dream about!"
It should be pretty obvious that a 2WD that costs $1000 less can not compete in the mud with a 4WD!
Posted by: raidermike67
You are correct. If you go to the Can-Am site, they show the bomb800 blowing away the pol800 and the kawie750. Then at the polaris site, they show the pol800 blowing away the bomb800 and the kawie750. It is call munipulative advertising.>>>>>>>>>
They didn't really show the Sportsman beating the Outlander 800 in a drag?? Regardless of whatever else is on that video, IF they show the SP beating an Outlander in a drag then I'd have a very, very hard time believing anything else.
Posted by: raidermike67
Guess I'll have to watch the video. Do they do any head to head competitions? I mean, come on man, the sled pull in the BRP video is pretty damn convincing, can't see how they rigged that one?
BTW, in the new Can-Am infomercial the Outlander 500 beats my Rincon in a drag race LOL.
Posted by: raidermike67
The absence of certain models in both the Polaris and BRP comparos is glaring. The only difference worth mentionong is the Can-AM vid used more real world test scenarios, like a head to head drag race(who ever does that anymore?) A mud bog run, and a handling course that gave more believable times.>>>>>
I also believe the Can Am results were all independently verified by a third party, not just the producers of the DVD. I'm not sure on why some quads were omitted in the BRP video. The Grizzly 660 was never compared to the Outlander 650 and I have no doubt the Outlander would shine over the 660 Grizz, not so much the new 700 as it looks like a nice machine but it hadn't been released when that video promotion was produced, so a comparison to a 660 Grizzly would be fair enough.
Posted by: BryceGTX
I agree with trvman and 700vtwinman. You have to read/watch manufacturers commercials and advertisements with a grain of salt.
BTW.. The Polaris 4x4 system does not have any sensors or special electronics to make the 4wd system work. It locks mechanically. It is simply over running clutches in the front differential with an electro-magnet to help it along.
Posted by: BryceGTX
Quote
For me the comparison between the Hawkeye 300 4X4 and the Honda Recon 250 and Suzuki Ozark 250 drove me nuts (We have Ozarks)
They showed the Hawkeye 4X4 beating the Recon and Ozark in every possible way. Of course what they somehow failed to mention is that the Hawkeye is closer in class to the Honda Rancher 350 and Kawasaki Prairie 360.
Why? Look at the price. The Hawkeye is closer in price to the Rancher and Prairie than to the Ozark and Recon. They only compare it to the Recon and Ozark because it is a 300cc machine BUT the Hawkeye has IRS and 4WD so there is no way that the Ozark and Recon can compete with the Hawkeye in comfort and mudding ability. But they are a lot cheaper than the Hawkeye. C'mon Polaris, give me a break!
Are you sure it wasn't a two wheel drive Hawkeye? The two wheel drive Hawkeye is $3899. The Recon ES is $3849 and the Ozark is $3499. This sounds like a valid comparison to me. All two wheel drive, all similar price range. But the Hawkeye with IRS, disc brakes all around and more suspension travel makes a compelling argument to me.
Posted by: trvman
it is so funny that whoever sponsers the test is always the best nothing bad about there atv just what's wrong with every one eles's
Posted by: squeege
A couple things made me laugh....
The BRP 800's lack of power was most noticed on the hill of the steeple chase
The kodiak450 driver drove like a drunk and still held his time within a second of the brute force 750
The yamaha diff had a complex 5 step process
pretty funny!
Posted by: ncriderforks
I've been to several sled pulls and polaris most always dominates. I've seen a Magnum 325 out pull everything in a 500 class but other polaris. They do have everybody whipped on the pulling. The only close race is the 800 Polaris and the Outty 800.(pulling) They are within a few feet. Different surfaces will give one the advantage over the other. At the polaris dealer shows, they let dealers race in a course where they put items on the racks and strap them down identical. It's pretty neat to see dealers going head to head with diff. brands. Lots of people don't believe that the Brute force is slower than the 800. The sportsman generally wins the hole shot, the brute will pass it, and it does take a while but the sportsman has a little bit faster top end. This is what I have seen with my own eyes.
Posted by: Silversteinfan
As much as I like polaris I thought the DVD was a joke and was not at all a real comparison to the other quads.
Posted by: bigike
is this video posted on the web anywhere, i'd like to see it. I've got a open mind and would be able to see the differance between comparison and marketing. Some folks on here are always dispelling reviews, stating that money is the root of all atv evil. Did anyone ever stop to think that all reviews are simply OPINION?lol. Now a polaris marketing video should be veiwed as a infomercial not as pure unadultrated fact. I every walk of life there is a bias, bias is opinion and to not have slight bias would mean not having a opinion. .002 for yall latter. Also anyone know where i can get the old brp can-am videos?
thanks yall
Ike
Posted by: RappinErnie
Yea I saw it, the only cool thing on it was the video featuring the 525 outlaw, I think the rest was bs.
Posted by: RappinErnie
hahaha
