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Posted by: 2manytoys
I would have to say in this order what I would get. Although I love my Rincon it would not be my first choice.
Outlander= awsome power, nice ride, weak frame, wait till next year for all the bugs to be worked out
Bf750= awsome power, decent ride but tippy, dont like the way it looks
Rincon680= best ride, decent power, looks awsome, no locker
Grizz 700= good power, decent ride also tippy
AC700= good power, lots of ground clearance, too tall
KQ700= good all around quad. Good power, nice ride, dont like the way it looks
Would not even think of a polaris till they get the diff, weight and electrical problems worked out.
Posted by: BigOne
Quote
Originally posted by: c2tmfp
My buddy I ride with is also 6'2" tall so he went with the bigger quad. But as far as the brute being unstable not a chance not close. I have the videos to prove it. I have had the damn thing at a 60 degree incline in a movie I have. I guess if u come from a sport quad maybe u feel a difference but can't seem to see or feel this tipsy thing.
c2tmfp I'm 6`5" by the way, Shrimp, LOL
I dint get the tipsy thing at all. One of the first things we said when riding was what the hell is everyone talking about this thing being tipsy??????????
Sure its not as stable as my V-force but it is not far behind. I feel totally safe riding this quad.
I can see why people might feel it`s more unstable due to the high seat height and crappy tires but its just a feeling. Put on after market wheels and tires and the difference is amazing.
Posted by: BigOne
It`s doing better than I thought it would. It does show scratches but the plastic doesn't seem to gouge very easily.
I was thinking about taking some scotch brite pads and scuffing the plastic then you would notice the little scratches, It would loose its shine but you wouldn't see every little scratch.
I really don't mind I didn't by it to stare at it when it is clean.
Posted by: CaptainQuint
Well, I'm making the decision now and will probably be buying one this fall if everything goes right. I've been able to ride several on the list so I'll make any notes after my choices. Here are my choices as they stand now:
Can-Am Outlander 800 Rode this around the farm expecting to really dislike everything except the engine. Fell in love with everything except the brakes and a few little minor annoyances. Really, really impressed me. Did everything extremely well and effortlessly. Just a joy to ride and it leaped from task to task. If I were buying an ATV today I would probably buy the Outlander 800. The single brake lever is stupid. So, so stupid.
Yamaha Grizzly 700 I haven't had any seat time on this ATV but the two people I have talked to personally are not the types of people who hype things or talk things up but have said the new grizzly is really something special and have said they were really impressed and both have said they are buying one. Both are not first year adopters and one is a die hard Honda guy. The Honda guy couldn't stop talking about it. That was enough to make it a second ATV choice for me.
Suzuki King Quad 700 -Have a lot of seat time on the KQ. Handles good and has good power. Just does everything well. My reservations about it are based on it's durability and the way Suzuki deals or rather does not deal with warranty issues and previous problems. That makes me nervous and reluctant to buy one myself. A good ATV though.
Arctic Cat 700 Never had seat time but the good 700 EFI engine on something other than a Suzuki sounds promising. I know someone who has one and he says he loves it and it seems to get along pretty well. I've never asked for any set time yet though.
Kawasaki 650 SRA Great ATV. Rode one recently and liked it a lot. I'd buy this one before I'd buy the 750 BF. If Kawasaki would only put front A arms and the 750 engine on this chassis. It would be so much better that the IFS BF.
Kawasaki Brute Force 750 Quite a bit of seat time on the BF. Miserable handling. Fantastic engine. Simply outstanding motor. Great brakes too. Four wheel drive system is great. All the components are really top notch. However. The machine just doesn't work together. It proves the old adage that a machine is more than the sum of it's parts. It should have never left the factory handling like it does. It's a shame too. Now if you put a set of high dollar Elka shocks, new rims with more offset and radial tires on it you can get it to handle like it should. Now if Kawasaki would just do that from the factory and add EFI they'd really have something.
Polaris 800 The Polaris rode great like Cadillac and had good power and handled decent at first as far as turning and stuff. I took it down a hill and got the scare of my life though. It started to skitter and chatter and clank and the ATV started to skid and lock the wheels up. I almost dumped the thing and about scared myself to death as it was nearly new and not mine. I was afraid I had broken my friends new ATV but was shocked when after I rode over and explained to him what happened that this was how it was suppose to act when going down hills. I attempted several more hills that day and even a marginally steep gravel driveway and still couldn't get used to this feature. Until Polaris fixes this I couldn't own one. The ride was nice and I could over look their hideous (to me) melted rubbermaid trashcan styling but the dangerous hill descents I couldn't deal with. That could get me killed. A shame too since like I said it seemed like a fairly decent ATV otherwise but sweet merciful crap don't go downhill with it.
The Hondas are off my list as they don't offer lockers or low ranges.
Posted by: Krait
Which big bore 4x4 would you pick out of the ones listed below? You can give details or simply vote. Thanks!
Honda Rincon 675EFI
Yamaha Grizzly 686FI
Yamaha Grizzly 660
Suzuki King Quad 700EFI
Kawasaki Prairie/KVF 700
Kawasaki Brute Force 650SRA
Kawasaki Brute Force 650i
Kawasaki Brute Force 750i
Can-Am Outlander 800EFI
Can-Am Outlander 650EFI
Polaris Sportsman 800EFI
Polaris Sportsman 700EFI
Arctic Cat 700EFI
Arctic Cat 650H1
PLEASE NO BASHING...I am posting this simply out of curiosity and want your honest opinions/answers. If there is one that isn't there and you want to mention it, go ahead! Thanks!
Posted by: Krait
Thanks guys, keep the opinions coming. This was more for my own curiosity rather than helping me decide what one to get, however it is helping me out too so keep it coming!
Most of my riding will be fast trail riding/open fire road type stuff, but having said that I like to mud and technical ride as well, rockcrawling etc so a 4x4 IRS is highly desirable for me, and my riding buddies all have big bore 4x4's so I love the power that they offer.
One question tho, how does the power of these machines compare?
Keep the comments/opinions coming guys, just curious to know what quads you like best!!
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
Steveo10- no worries, I'll try to answer your question myself. My best buddy and a lot of his riding buddies all ride Kawi vtwins, whether they are 650, 700, or 750. I have ridden his 700 quite a bit and it is a powerhouse. He has 27" mudlites on it and can spin the snot out of them any time he wants (no performance mods of any kind) . Seeing how the 750i has about as much power as you could ever need in a quad, their major downfall is the handling. For mud riding where you don't need as precise handling they do great, but on hard packed trails they tend to suffer. One of my buddies co-workers was gonna buy a 750i but his uncle rode one and flipped it, they all ride pretty fast on dirt roads and the brute 750i is not very good at that kind of riding in stock form. So now he's gonna get a 650SRA. With all that in mind if Kawi were to give the brute much better handling, as well as maybe a bit better fuel mileage (that 700 sure likes its gas), they would have an absolute winner. Where my buddy lives the Kawi dealers sells 650SRA for $7800, 650i for $8200, and 750i for $9100. So they are pretty popular around his neck of the woods considering a King Quad is $10800, and a new Grizz is $11600. (canadian pricing). I personally love the power of those Kawi's but wish they steered easier and were a bit more compact, I am 5'6" and 150lbs. I have rode a Outtie 800, and can say that those are VERY powerful and have pretty good handling to boot if you are willing to spend the money.
Hope this helped!
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
V2Rider- Glad to hear such enthusiasm about your machine. Thats what I want to hear. I am glad you love your Cat, and I don't doubt that they are a great machine. However, from sitting on them, (no riding) I feel they are too big and heavy for my tastes. IMO. I am a small guy, and prefer a smaller lightweight machine that I can throw around a little bit easier.
Montyh- I am glad to hear from you, I know you are a big supporter of the 650i. I agree 100% with you about it, and would consider it over a 750i without even thinking. I don't need 750cc, and would prefer the better handling of the 650i. However I still feel they are slightly larger and cumbersome compared to say, a grizzly or outlander. For most people that is acceptable, but for me, I do like a smaller machine. But that doesn't mean I can't handle a larger machine either. I took a test ride on a Kodiak 450 and loved it for its small size and easy steering, but the power just wasn't doing it for me. But, nothing is written in stone, and it looks like I will be waiting until next spring at the earliest before considering buying a quad.
These are just my own opinions/observations, and are by no means what works for everyone.
Keep up the comments guys, I still like hearing about what you prefer or don't!
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
Hey thx for the replies guys, it'll be quite awhile it looks like before I can consider a purchase so I still have plenty of time to review and test ride etc... but keep the opinions coming anyways. Right now I am leaning towards: Brute 650i, Outtie 650, King quad 700, Grizz 660/700. These quads are all on the relatively small side and lightweight, with reasonably easy steering. After spending a decent amount of time on my buddies Twin Peaks 700, I am addicted to vtwin power so the Brute and Outtie are really looking good to me. But, I never liked the heavy steering and overall large feeling it had. Thx guys!
Krait
Posted by: Krait
DesertViper - Thx for your comments. Its great to hear from someone who has had extensive experience with several different machines. I really like the new Grizz. BUT, back where I will be moving and riding, they sell for (CANADIAN$$) $11,600. That is a lot, considering the Brute 650 SRA goes for $7800, and the Brute 650i for $8200, and the Brute 750i for $9100. (New). The Kawi dealer sells them incredibly cheap, and has good service as well. So, should I save a LOT of money and get the machine that has awsome power but not so good handling (650i) or rough ride (650 sra), or pay a LOT more and get the machine with less power but better everything else? Also, there won't be any elevation changes either so EFI would only be a benefit in that I wouldn't have to mess with carbs and suchlike when modifying. Its not an easy choice to make. Thanks for the comments guys, keep them coming!
In the Brutes favour, I can still buy one and with the money I save, buy some Works or Elkas and improve the ride/handling dramatically. Would any of you still buy a Grizz/King/Outlander even with the added cost?
Grizz 700 - $11,600
King 700 - $10,800
Outlander 650(non xt) - $11,150 (xt) $12,300
Brute 605 sra - $7800
Brute 650i - $8200
Brute 750i - $9100
Not sure what the Polaris/Arctic Cat/Rincon's go for.
I also heard that the 2007 Brute 750i has the same caster/shock changes the 650i had, so it is easier to steer and might handle better than the old ones. And also might have the 650i CDI that has less retard, making them a bit faster than previous models as well. So now I am tempted to get a 750i, altho I have always said I would never buy a machine bigger than 700cc.
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
Yeah, quads are lots of $$$ here in Canada. Most Kawi dealers sell for MSRP, so really in most places Brute 750i's go for $10,700 I believe, and 650i's for $9,900. But the dealer near my buddie's place sells REALLY cheap. So yes, I may very well be going for a Brute, either a 650 or 750. Especially if the 2007 750i has the changes that the 650i got for 2006. I just didn't want to make a decision based on price and power alone, there are other things to cinsider but it is a HUGE price difference, and the dealer has great service. Like I said before tho, it looks like I willbe waiting until the spring before buying so I have plenty of time to make a decision and shop around.
DesertViper - I dont know either why Grizz 700's are so much here either.
Montyh - I do love speed and power but if the 650i still has plenty it may be the ticket for me.
Toyeboy - It is a HUGE price dif, and you are right, there really isn't that much better about the King to justify that much more money.
Keep the comments coming guys!
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
DesertViper - I would really like to hear your thoughts and comments on the new Grizz 700 when you have had some time on it. If it weren't for the high price I would be getting that quad for sure.
Montyh - Do you know if the steering on the 650i and possibly 2007 750i is easier than the older Prairie 650's and 700's?
Thanks again, keep the comments comming!
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
Anybody out there that would still consider a Grizz/King/Outtie even with the added price?
Montyh, I checked out the thread and it seems most ppl prefer the older SRA to the 750i, however this is the older 750i which I knew supposedly steers pretty heavily and has really bad handling.
Thx guys, anybody else out there with an opinion on this?
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
DesertViper - the Grizz 660 is $10,500 so it is cheaper than the new Bomb/Can-Am's, but the new Grizz 700 is $11,600...quite a price jump. But I think the extra $1100 is worth all the improvements.
V2Rider - These prices ARE Canadian$$$. For some reason we get screwed over royally when paying for a new quad.
Toyeboy -
The Outtie 650 theoretically has everything I am looking for, namely awsome power and good handling combined with EFI and decent gas milage. BUT, single lever braking, automatic diff-lock, low snorkels, leaky seals & cvt, small poorly designed rad, weak frame & no stock skids is turning me off. All those problems can be remedied but at extra cost, and some of those mods will void the warantee so having standard 3 years is useless anyhow with mods required to make it compete.
This is crazy how making a decision on a 'toy' can be so INCREDIBLY dificult.
Maybe a description of how I like to ride might make things easier. I like to ride fast, hard, sometimes-not often slow and technical like rockcrawling(nothing too major tho, not like moab or even the rubicon trail), some gnarly mud but nothing requiring bigger than 27" mud/trail tires, a little bit of hill-climbing, exploring, LOTS of fast high speed dirt roads, fast trail riding, small jumps, wheelies, spinning the tires sometimes just to bring a grin to my face, also using it for hunting, fishing, and doing very small chores and work etc. Mostly riding hard and fast on all kinds of terrains.
The Brute's have awsome power, and are very economically priced and they seem pretty tough and reliable. Also they are the only ones with a manual diff-lock that can be engaged 'on the fly'. But that's about all they have going for them(I don't really want the SRA version). Poor gas milage, terrible high speed handling, firm suspension with a firm seat, carbs, poor 4x4 system, and a not so bullet proof cvt system.
The King 700 seems very good, only lacking a park feature, and low end power. I also really like the new Suzuki Green colour. But the new Grizz 700 seems simply a more refined better version of the King, for a little bit more money. Better snorkel placement, Park, better handling, better ground clearance, similar power, power steering, possibly better brakes, a modular rack system, etc. BUT at least the King has a VDI ECM coming out for the power issue. Nothing so far for the new Grizz.
Whatever, I am tired, and have plenty of time yet to make a desicion and to debate this over and over time and time again, with myself, friends, and with you guys on the forums.
keep up the comments guys!!!!
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
v2rider - Yeah its a lot of fun to modify your machine just how you like it. Its all part of the fun. I was meaning the fact that the Outtie requires a dual brake lever modification to bring it to spec like most others, (I much prefer dual brake levers) also manually sealing the cvt to prevent leakage, these two mods alone will almost definatly void most warantees. And the fact that it has a weak frame, and has an area underneath where part of the engine block is completely exposed, means that it REQUIRES skid plates for almost any kind of riding, whereas others (especially arctic cat and polaris) have adequate enough skid protection to get away without adding any. Just my thoughts.
I am leaning towards either a Brute 650i, or a King Quad. The King definatly has the edge for fast aggressive trail riding, while the Brute will generally take it in a drag (bottom end anyway). Any quad I get will most likely get a few mods right off the bat, and more will be added during its lifespan, thats for sure.
A question, those of you who have Elka shocks, how do you like them, how do they perform, how much were they, how do you think they compare to Works Performance shocks?
Thx a lot guys, your comments and thoughts have been appreciated, and keep more coming...BR>
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
Anyone with Elkas or Works and an opinion?
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
v2rider - Check out http://www.elkasuspension.com/utility/index.html, they might have shocks for your quad. Not sure tho. I'm sure they can work with you on the matter, might cost a bit, but sounds like they are worth it.
DesertViper - Awsome writeup. Sounds like you liked the Grizz quite a bit. Obviously, comparing suspension on a utility atv to a race quality dirt bike is not apples to apples, I highly doubt any ute quad including the rincon has the suspension to handle that kind of terrain at any decent speed. I will most likely, if it is financially viable, put either Elkas or Works shocks on whatever quad I get. I know some of the riding I would be doing would be better on a sport quad, but there is lots of stuff that would require a 4x4 and the racks, hitch etc. And I can't afford two quads. (YET.
You mentioned that the engine had great power, does it compare to the Prairie 650 you used to have? I have spent a decent amount of time on my buddies Twin Peaks 700 and I love that Vtwin.
Anyway, thx for the writeup and your opinion, I have narrowed down the choices quite a bit I think, now I just have to wait until I have delt with some other financial obligations.
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
c2tmfp - Hey thx for your comment. I really didn't think the Brutes were that bad for stability, I guess it depends a lot on what you are used to and what quad you were riding before you got it. You say the 750i's got the caster change midway thru 2006, does yours have the new changes and handling? Or is it different from your buddie's 2007? I would imagine that aftermarket shocks would help a lot in the handling department anyway. Can you powerslide yours?
v2rider - How do you like your Dynatek CDI? I emailed Elka asking about prices for shocks, and they quoted me roughly $1300/pair, CANADIAN. Not sure American price, but it would be lower. Pricey but I can appreciate quality suspension. Works I believe are roughly $900/pair, AMERICAN. Both with compression adjustments, rebound adjust., preload adjust., dual rate springs, and remote/piggyback reservoirs. Not 100% sure of those prices tho. You can also get cheaper models without all the adjustments. Works Steelers with only preload adjust. and dual rate springs remote reservoirs I was quoted roughly $600/pair AMERICAN, don't know the prices for cheaper Elkas.
Thx for the replies guys!
-Krait
Posted by: Krait
ncriderforks - I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I have considered a Sportsman, I think they have lots of ingenuity when it comes to storage, and overall workability. I have looked at them at the dealer and they seem incredibly well built, like a tank. If my intended usage included more work than it will, then I would look at them more seriously. But, like I have said, I am a small rider, and I prefer a lighter machine that I can use my weight as more of an advantage with. I also like to ride aggressively and I have to confess I am CORRUPTED by POWER. I love it. But I can control myself to the extent that I will consider a 650/700cc machine equally with a 750/800cc machine, more so as they all have tons of power and are usually cheaper than the big dog machines.
BigOne - I see you have the new Black Brute 750i, how is the black finish holding up to scratches? Does it show scratches REALLY badly? Do you regret getting the Black as opposed to a Camo, or Green one? I really like the black but am worried it will show scratches WAY to easily and will look like cr%p after a few rides.
Thx guys!
-Krait
Posted by: Hebs
Snapping tierods?? How do you just snap tierods? I ride the crap out of both my 02 and my 06... and the closest I've come is bending 1 from a log sneakin in there before I got my after market A-arm guards on...
The BF750 I ride with is 7 months old, and already has thrown a rod.. ($1500 to repair)
The AC Vtwin was traded in after less than a year. (too many issues with the choke on both carbs)
The zuk twin peaks has had serveral issues with the belt and clutch
The polaris is just way too dang heavy...
I'd never think of owning a Honda until they decide to start using Diff-Lock.
I've only seen a Outlander 800 in action once... seems like a decent machine... Haven't ridden one yet. (buddy just bought 1 too)
To each their own... I just prefer a lighter quad (the griz) with plenty of power and decent ground clearance. (will have even more with the new 700) The new design is also suppose to eliminate the body roll the earlier models have (bigger tires also gets rid of it.)
Posted by: Hebs
Well said...
nice collection...
Posted by: montyh
you ought to ride a 650i before you buy. great machine for going fast or crawling. it is not the best at every single catagory, but you can hang with those that are.
monty
Posted by: montyh
krait, i understand the size issue. still, ride one if you get a chance.
i guess i'd have to say it would be hard to make a decision until you see if the 700 Grizz feels good for you.
the KQ is always a contender, too. i would also make it a point to look at the Can-Am 650.
monty
Posted by: montyh
i think you are right about the '07 750. it is supposed to have the 650i front end improvements and is faster than the '06 750s. if you like fast it should be the one.
i would buy another 650i tomorrow if mine got stolen tonight. i have never used full throttle except on a couple of stright uphill stretches just to see it happen. it still got way too fast. there are guys that like that, tho so the '07 750 will see good sales.
monty
Posted by: montyh
Krait, the '07 750 has the improved front end that the 650i has. i don't know how they compare to the praries. there is a thread going over at nyrock's in the prarie section about the prarie/brute comparisons. the SRA vs IRS will divide the bunch every time, so that thread probably will reflect that.
monty
Posted by: montyh
V2, Krait, elkas are awesome. you'll have to spend a little while dialing them in for your use. if i had to replace my atv, i'd order elkas the same day...
monty
Posted by: montyh
http://www.elkasuspension.com/
ebay also has Elkas for Kawis, and probably others as well. when you order Elkas, you will have to let them know how much you weigh and how you will be using them, so they can customize them for you.
monty
Posted by: raidermike67
I guess some of the decision would have to do with what you want it for.
Outlander 800
Outlander 650
KQ
BF
Grizz
Rincon(not really marketed as a utility) only rated above Polaris cause its a Honda IMO
Sportsman
The Sportsman and Rincon are the most comfortable, plush riding quads..I just have some reservations about Polaris reliability issues.
Posted by: Steveo10
The 700griz looks pretty tempin! The old griz was a pretty solid machine... Now with a bigger motor, EFI and many more improvements, its gonna be a big seller. I dont have much negative to say about it.
Posted by: Steveo10
AC would be very good for rock climbing with its clearance
Posted by: Steveo10
Sry to kinda steal the thread!
If Kawi could change the BF handling would it be the ultimate quad? I see them do so good on atv rallies in the mud.
Posted by: Steveo10
Dirt Wheels had some foreshadowing in their last edition of a bigbore shoot-out. Im guessin they r waitin for their baby the 700griz to be released 1st.
Posted by: DesertViper
Krait,
Here's my experiences. We have owned a Rincon 650, a Prairie 650 and Prairie 700, three Grizzly 660s, and a Sportsman.
The Sportsman rode nice, and ran good, but is so unbelievably heavy that it just wasn't enough fun to ride. Reliability was marginal, and we destroyed the clutch when we got stuck in deep snow. The entire drive clutch needed replaced, not just the belt.
The Rincon was horribly gutless, and had the all time worst transmission ever put into an ATV. It was geared way too high, and also rated poor in reliability. Most of the bolts and fasteners rattled loose, fenders came unhooked from their plastic fasteners, and we had to replace the torque converter and a rear driveshaft CV joint. The Rincon spent more time in the shop being repaired than all of our other ATVs combined. It spent nine weeks in the shop all together, partly due to a terrible local Honda dealer. The new Rincon is fuel injected, and makes marginally more power, but Honda has still not fixed its biggest flaws.
The Prairies were great, but rode stiff and would give you a case of monkey butt by the end of a hundred mile ride. The carburation was also less than perfect, and could never be dialed in perfectly, partly because we ride at anywhere between 2500 ft elevation and 11,500 ft elevation from one week to the next.
The Grizzlys were the best overall ATVs. They ran great, and could conquer terrain that the others couldn't. The Grizzlys overall were the most reliable of the group, with only one broken front axle CV joint in thousands of miles of use. And the CV joint was my fault. It should be common sense to let off the throttle if you have one tire bound up under a rock ledge, and you are in low range with the diff lock on, and you have the throttle wide open, and nothing is moving. I didn't let off, and, BANG, ... busted CV joint.
We just bought another big bore ATV this week, and we got the Grizzly 700. The 700 is a totally new animal compared to the 660 it replaces. It is vastly more refined, with the best handling of any 4x4 chassis I have ridden. The engine is mounted lower in the frame, the shocks are mounted to the lower a-arms instead of the upper a-arms, and the gas tank is mounted under the seat, all of which really improve mass centralization and lower the center of gravity. The tippyness of the old Grizzly is GONE. Fuel injection is nice, and power steering is nice, but the improved handling is the biggest change.
Posted by: DesertViper
Krait,
The Brute 650 SRA is essentially the same as a Prairie 650. The Prairie 650 we had was a really nice ATV, and although the Grizzly is better it is not almost $3000 better. It is surprising that Yamaha Grizzlys cost so much in Canada, because they are less than Polaris or Bombardier around here. They still seem to sell just fine though, our dealer got five new Grizzlys in yesterday, and by the end of the day all of them were gone (I'm guilty for taking the camo one off of his hands). And our Yamaha dealer is also a Kawasaki dealer, he has had a new camo Brute Force 750i sitting outside of his shop for at least 6 weeks and it hasn't sold yet. Kawasaki's are fine ATVs though, so you may have a Kawasaki in your future.
Posted by: DesertViper
We will be riding it for four days over Labor Day Weekend, and should have hundreds of miles on it by next week. Its my wife's quad, and I'll be primarily riding my YZ 450F, but I'm sure I can talk her into letting me put it through its paces. I'll post back after the weekend.
Posted by: DesertViper
Krait, we just got back from three days of riding the Grizzly 700. We went to Jericho, UT, which is about 25,000 square miles of BLM land that has been used for dirt bike desert racing for at least the last 30 years. There have been so many races there, that now there are probably thousands of trails you can ride. Many of the trails are single track from the bikes, and ATVs should stay off of these, but there are also numerous bike race courses that are wide enough for ATVs, and lots of two track ATV width trails. The bike courses have been used so much that they are nothing but whoops, huge deep hard dirt whoops that go for miles, and miles, and miles. I put 120 miles on the Grizzly, and my wife put about as many miles on it herself. I would typically ride my YZ 450F, with my sixteen year old son riding his KTM 300 XC, for three hours in the morning, then ride the Grizzly for several hours each afternoon, then play race against my 10 year old son and his KTM 65 SX on a mini desert loop near our camp in the evenings.
As for the Grizzly:
Best attribute -- engine/transmission package
Worst attribute -- Suspension
Might as well get the worst overwith. There is no way you can go from riding a YZ 450F wide open all morning trying to keep up with your hotshot kid, and then get on a Grizzly 700 in the afternoon, and not think the suspension on any utility ATV is absolutely horrible. The front shocks on the Grizzly 700 are over damped on the rebound stroke, and pack down on repetitive big hits, like whoops, so they stay in the stiff part of their travel, and you just slam from one whoop to the next. One time over the weekend my 10 year old son passed me in the whoops when he was on his 65 SX and I was on the Grizzly. And I thought I was pushing it hard, until he cruised by me like I was sitting still. Stay away from whoops on any utility ATV; you wont have fun, and the quad wasn't made for it. The shocks on the new Grizzly do seem to have more bottoming resistance than on the old 660 though. And on big single hits they are fine. I hit a cattle gaurd jump on a graded gravel road at 60 mph, and the Grizzly flew about 2 feet in the air, for a distance of 50 feet, and landed lilke I was landing on a cloud. That was impressive, and really surprised me considering how unimpressed I had been on the bike race courses. Bike race courses are brutally rough though. The Grizzly suspension seemed fine on any normal ATV trail, and on Jeep roads. I would say that overall it is pretty much on par with any utility ATV, except perhaps the Rincon.
Weight balance is farther toward the rear on the new Grizzly. When they moved the gas tank down they also moved it back, which moved forty pounds of gasoline at the same time. It is easier to wheelie the 700 than the 660, but not as easy to keep the front end down on really steep hillclimbs. One of the toughest climbs I have ever done on a bike is in the area we rode, and I never could climb it with my old KTM 525 without overheating the engine, and spewing steam from the radiator by the time I got to the top of the hill. I did that hill on this trip with the YZ 450F, and although it didn't overheat, I did have to work the clutch a few times to get around the Z-turns and up over the big rock ledges that are right after the turns. When I climbed this hill with the Grizzly 700 I needed low lock, and had to stand up on the floorboards and lean way up over the front rack to keep the front end down. I hadn't realized that hill had been that steep when I went up it with the bike. It is one nasty hillclimb though, and the ground is just covered in loose rocks and tractionless silt, which makes it even tougher. It is easier to move your weight forward on the new Grizzly than on the old one though, because the seat/tank junction is flatter. And the weight is lower on the new Grizzly, so sidehills are more comfortable than on the Grizzly 660, and downhills are no problem at all. I went down a hill that was completely covered in loose rocks, with rocks varying from 2" to 12" in diameter, and so many rocks that there was no dirt in between the rocks. The hill was so steep that even with the Grizzly skidding all four tires it was still picking up speed going down the hill. The sliding downhill for fifty feet part was a bit scary, but the Grizzly itself still felt well planted, and stable.
High speed stability is also good. I rode for about nine miles at 60 mph on a graded gravel road, steering with one hand because I was carrying a big chunk of quartz I had found with the other hand. Even powerslide turns while steering with one hand were not a big deal. Top speed is 64 mph by the way, which is the exact same as it was with all three of our previous Grizzly 660s. Yamaha must have decided 64 mph is a good number for their big bore utiliity ATV.
And now for the best part, engine/transmission. This is the best engine/transmission combination I have ever seen in a utility ATV. The engine is so smooth and quiet, with the best matched transmission ever, so the whole time you are using the ATV for its intended purpose (not whoops) you are left thinking "wow, this is nice". Perfect power, perfect shiftout rate on the transmission, just a real high quality ATV that is an absolute joy to ride. On some of the high mountain ATV trails through the trees and streams I remember thinking that I hadn't had that much fun in a long long time. It is nice to ride a smooth relaxing ATV that makes a technical trail so effortless that you can sit back and really enjoy the scenery. I am very happy with the Grizzly.
I didn't even mention power steering did I. Its not that big of a feature if you ask me. The handlebars will still jerk if you hit a rock with just one front tire. I read somewhere that with the power steering that wouldn't happen, but that is not correct.
DesertViper
Posted by: DesertViper
Krait,
that is exactly why I added the dirt bike information in my post, so that people would know where I was coming from. I'm sure someone that has never rode a bike would think the Grizzlys suspension is great.
I have had Works shocks, Elka shocks, and Ohlins shocks on several ATVs. Ohlins have consistently been the best, followed by Elka, with Works coming in a distant third. I had Works struts and a works shock on my Prairie 700, and was not happy with them. I switched to Elka front springs with the stock struts, and it was easily twice as good as the Works struts and stock springs. I never tried the Elka springs with Works struts, because Elka didn't recommend it.
The power of the Grizzly 700 is a better power than that of a Prairie 650 or 700. I don't know if there is more power, but the power spread is better, with more power down low, and more torque. Engine response is quicker on the Grizzly, perhaps due to fuel injection.
Posted by: DesertViper
ncriderforks,
I don't think you're crazy. Our old Sportsman would climb real good, but it was a little scary to me because of the weight. I always thought that if I did loose control I would be a gone'r. In fact, I did lose control one time, and it rolled all the way to the bottom of the mountain. I was able to ride it out, but it was with two flat tires due to broken beads, and no brakes due to a broken brake master cylinder. That was a while ago, I ride better now, I think BR>
The Grizzly 700 needs throttle control though. On one long steep straight hill I came to over the weekend, I started up the hill in 2-high, then 1/3 of the way up the hill I decided I would need 4-wheel drive, so had to take my thumb off the throttle to push the 4x4 button, then back on the throttle again. When I hit the throttle again the Grizzly pulled the front tires up about a foot off the ground. But the Grizzly really does feel well planted and is super easy to control, and it didn't feel too bad with the front end a foot off the ground, so I decided to see how far I could go with it. By slowly easing into the throttle more and more I was able to carry the front tires the rest of the way up the hill (so much for needing 4-wheel drive). The power of the Grizz 700 is great fun, but it could certainly be dumped on its backside if someone didn't understand the whole throttle control concept.
And it is really good to hear the new Sportsmans will have 4-wheel engine braking this year. They have needed it for a while now.
DV
Posted by: Toyeboy
Power and speed wise in stock form they go like this...
Outty 800
BF 750
Outty 650
BF 650i
Sportsman 760
Prairie 700
King Quad 700
Grizz 686 after this point those listed are all very close in speed.
I really like my King Quad right now and I'm happy with it and won't be buying anything new for a while, ecspecially happy that an ECU is coming out for it in September, it'll be like a new ATV with a new ECU.
If I was seaching for an ATV right now with price not a factor...I already have a King so would want something different... My choices in order...I luv power if you can't tell.
1. Outty 800...just can't overlook it's power
2. BF 750...awesome power as well
3. Polaris Sportsman 800 or maybe an AC 700 with the VDI copperhead.
Posted by: Toyeboy
For some reason my King has always felt small to me and it's size has never been a problem at all...Probably b/c I came from a Polaris Sportsman. The King with stock tires is definitely one of the most nimble big bores out there I have no trouble getting through tight trails with it and it's easy to just sort of throw around corners and it feels small to me, It's 600lb dry weight is very nice, it's clear that it's lighter than some of the others I've ridden.
The King is really built for the rider to stay seated on it comfortably and ride it without feeling the need to stand up, it handles good enough to stay seated and has a center of gravity low enough to just take turns quickly & without much effort to turn it at all...it's really a comfortable ATV and really built for sit down riding. It also has a very small turning radius.
If you've ever watched the ATV tour races on ESPN 2 in the All terrain challange the KQ does very well in fact it won the last race again yesterday, it's clear that it's very nimble and easy for the racer to throw around.
Posted by: Toyeboy
Grizz 700 - $11,600
King 700 - $10,800
Outlander 650(non xt) - $11,150 (xt) $12,300
Brute 605 sra - $7800
Brute 650i - $8200
Brute 750i - $9100
By those prices the Grizzly 700 is out of the picture. The price that sticks out to me the most is the BF 650i for $8200, it's definitely a powerful ATV and that is a HUGE price difference between that and the King for $10,800. The King is an exellent ATV but it's not worth $1600 more than the BF 650i IMO, I say either the BF 6501 or BF 750i b/c their power in stock form is definitely above and beyond the Grizz and King and matches the Outty 650.
Posted by: Toyeboy
The Outty 650 for 11,150 would be another I'd consider b/c it's ride and handling is much better than any of the Brutes and they are very powerful for a 650, close to the BF 750 in power. Plus they are fuel injected which the BF's definitely lack.
Posted by: Toyeboy
Quote
....put either Elkas or Works shocks on whatever quad I get
Both of these brands of shocks are very expensive for the utes just to warn you. I've heard they are over $1000..kind of crazy considering their just shocks.
Posted by: Toyeboy
Quote
I know i should let this go but the brute force is not even close to being tipsy. Not even with the stock tires. Also halfway through the 2006 year they changed the caster on the front end which makes it easier to turn. Me and my buddie have 2 brute's a 07 and a 06 and were amazed how stable they r. I dont know what people r comparing them 2 a sport quad?!?!?!!?
The Brute compared to some of the other best handling big bore utes such as the King Quad and Rincon does not handle well and does have a tippy feel...they may have made changes that have helped but it's primarily the same setup as it's always been.
This isn't necesarily bad though b/c the BF is more of a stand up shift your weight type ute whereas the King is more of a sit down and enjoy the plush ride type.
Posted by: JDQuadRider
I don't understand why the straight-liners like Toyeboy will tell you that the Grizz 700 is overpriced and then push the Outtie 650 which is only a few hundred dollars less. I haven't seen any speed comparisons between the new grizz and anything else yet. It could very well be just a click behind the Outtie 650. On top of it, it is the most well rounded big bore quad going at the present time - outtie included. However, it is pricey. If the Grizz is out of the question due to price then so is the Outlander. Especially considering all the money you'd have to sink in upgrades just to match what every other bike already has (skid plates, etc.). If EFI is a requirement, then you can eliminate any BF quad. I'm not a big fan of the Bf. I think they're ugly for starters. If I could take that engine out of the BF and put it in any other quad, that would be ideal. I'd junk the rest of the BF because it's nothing special beyond the engine - hence the cheap price.
By process of elimination, the King Quad is probably the best option for you. Or, you could wait to see if Suzuki releases that new Fuel injected 500cc quad soon. It might fall into your price range nicely after its release.
Posted by: DDDonkey
I would go with the AC, great ground clearance in all there atv's, the 650 if you are going to be doing alot of pulling or the 700 if you are going up and down in elevation alot.
Posted by: ncriderforks
The 07 sportsman will have a 4 wheel ebs now so that will prevent the back end sliding. I have ridden most all of the big bores and in my opinion as far as the rock crawling and up hill riding the Polaris seemed to be one of the best. Yes, its heavier but the weight kinda helps keep the front end on the ground. To me, power to weight ratio feels the best on the Polaris. The other brands seem so lite that if you bump the throttle at the wrong time they seemed to kinda lung out of control. If you are on a hill that can mess you up. I'm sure I will be called crazy by some people for saying this. It just seems to me that 600 pounds for some of the high horse power atv's can hurt the control you have over them. Well, yall can go ahead and beat me up. Just speaking for myself and a few others that do alot of trail riding. If I could choose an Atv to have and money were not an object, I think I would choose something like a 500 efi sportsman or something in that power range in any brand. It can go anywhere, but its power is easy to control but can still spin the tires over pretty well.
Posted by: v2rider
Look at my pics, there are endless possibilities to what you can add to these cats! I would get an AC first, then Grizzly, then BF, then Can-AM, then KQ, then Honda, then SP
Posted by: v2rider
Or you can look at the 06 AC650V2s, these are seriously nice quads also!! And the come with the V-Twin power, which is plenty, and combines it with the ground clearance, and diff lock, and speedrack. My order would be as
Arctic Cat
Grizzly
Brute Force
Can-Am
King Quad
Honda
Polaris
Posted by: v2rider
If thats not Canadian dollars, a 650 outty isnt worth that, ever, nor any other 650 quad
Posted by: v2rider
Especially considering all the money you'd have to sink in upgrades just to match what every other bike already has (skid plates, etc.)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ive made this argument before, as i paid 7300 OTD for my V2, and stuck 2,000 in mods and accessories into it. Its now the same price as an outty, but more valuable Its the list at the bottom, along with a GPS, Gun Scabbard, Cargo Box, and even an Alarm! I wouldnt trade all that, with the quad and the fun installing everything, for any other stock quad ever
Posted by: v2rider
I also would like to know about the Elka Shocks, such as can i get them for my quad!!!!
Posted by: v2rider
where do i find info and order them?
Posted by: v2rider
They dynatek is the best thing ive done to my quad. Its awesome to see the power difference from stock, and the power is through the entire power band, not just take off
Posted by: mykool61679
im a honda man but have to the grizz, those things are awsome, just not as reliable as the hondas. power steering would be nice though, id put 12 inch wide gators on the front and the back!!!!!
Posted by: RancherATCrazy
Outlander or the Rincon. Between those two I would have a tough time choosin' but I would probably end up with a Rincon because it's a Honda and the Price Difference.
Posted by: acpower
AC machine either way. H1 if you tow alot or need low end power and 700 EFI if you travel alot or just want a faster machine. I like the H1 engine, its Arctic Cats own engine, the engine is smooth and the feel is great. EFI is also a great engine. you hit that throttle and youre gone with the 700. either machine would make you happy.
Posted by: J0NJON
I use to go under the name of "JJonJon" but since it got deleted somehow, im now under this name. Im going to state each machine and what i think about them. And i'll try to keep it short.
Honda Rincon 680EFI - The Rincon is a great machine for what its designed to do. Its one of the best trail riding machines out there. Its nimble and comfortable to ride. Offers EFI, decent power, and some unique features. However, its missing two things that are keeping it from being what we all want it to be, and we all know what those two things are. No Low Range, and No Diff Lock.
Yamaha Grizzly 660/700FI - The Grizz 660 is a solid performer in all areas. Its good at everything but not necessarily the best at anything. Also, there is so many aftermarket accessories for the 660 it almost makes me sick. However, IMO, they arent built with as tough/strong components as Polaris and AC are built with. My friends have the 660's and their tierods snap like twigs. Constantly. Thats the reason the Grizz, and machiens like it, are so lightweight. Yeah being lightweight has its advantages, you can throw them around the trails better, and on some machines, it results in better handling, but their built weak. IMO. Anyway the Grizz 700 is a new machine with Power steering, and all. But its stilla first year machine and its already had recalls. But its still like the same weight as the 660, so we'll have to see if the tierod issues and everything else will be improved from the 660's.
Suzuki KingQuad 700EFI - When Suzuki first introduced this quad, i thought It would dominate everything. It has all the features you can want in an ATV. Nice power, IRS, EFI, Dff Lock, etc... I dont think i've given this quad the credit it deserves. It has a great feel to it, its very stable with its low center of gravity, and it also comes with an unbeatable price of $7,199!! However, its still very lightweight and it also has tierod problems. its got that low end lag that Suzuki built into it, keeping this machine from showings its full potential, and its had some horrible air filter problems. So its still got some minor bugs to be fixed, so I would not buy this quad over 1 or 2 others. I think Suzuki's next quad, whatever it may be, will be tough to beat.
Kawasaki BF650/750i - Kawasaki makes some sick engines. They literally are some horsepower machines. They are also greatly priced, great bang for the buck. However, even with the addition of the 650i, i think Kawasaki has some work to do. The handling of the 750i is horrible. And everyone knows it. Once Kawi gets this down, This machine will be on top again. Im not a fan of its 4wd system, but then again, some people claim it as the best setup, so IMO you either love it, or you hate it, and i hate it. The 650i is a great machine from what i hear, almost as powerful as the 750i but has the handling that the 750i craves. So who knows.
Can-Am Outlander 800EFI/650EFI - These two machines are new. The most powerful in their classes, and by a decent marjin. The offer alot of unique features, like the way their IRS is setup, TTI, Visco-Loc, etc... However, they are EXTREMELY pricey. They are new/unproven, and to me it looks like Can-Am/Bomb, is focusing on how thing and one thing only. Power. I think their styling is outragiously horrible, and the way the machine is setup makes me feel like im riding one of their jetski's, not an ATV. Can-Am is on the right track though. Change their styling a little bit. Fix some nic-naks and they are almost undisputedly the King of the big bores.
Arctic Cat 650H1/700EFI - Arctic Cat is definatly going in the right direction. The also have a few unique features, they are built really tough, and they improve every year. They have the Arctic Cat Speedrack system which allows you to use your ATV for all kinds of purposes. And they got the ground clearance and are considered to be the #1 choice for mudders and rock climbers. however, i personally dont like the way its laid out. I think the handling could be improved alot, and it feels really tippy due to the ground clearance. But thats about the only negative things i can say about it. AC has come a long way and i cant wait for them to start making more of their own engines, because the H1 rocks. Anyhow, the 700 EFI is new. So apparently it has the same low end lag as the KQ700 which isint good. But its not like its noticeable. Im waiting to here more reviews on this ATV because it looks great.
Polaris Sportsman 700EFI/800EFI - Yes, i saved the best for last. Just kidding lol. But seriously, I honestly think Polaris has the most going for them right now, but they, like everyone else, have their share of problems. So anyway, They have the BEST ride. Its so cushy and gives that caddilac feel to it that i crave. Its built very strong with sturdy components, Its got so much storage its crazy, Also comes with the Polaris Lock'n'Ride accessory system (similiar to AC's speedrack) which also gives you the oppourtunity to use your ATV for all kinds of different purposes. They come with the best stock tires around. The SP800 sounds incredible with its dual exhaust, and its the 2nd most powerful quad out there (tied with BF750i), i personally, love the styling of the new polaris with rear tail lights, and all. Great handling, can tow the most, and I also love the rear work lights and its AWD system. Some hate it though, so yeah. But the engine breaking down hill that people talk about is now officially over. For '07 Polaris has the ADC which stands for Active Decent Control. So no more 2wd going downhill. Anyway, an '07 Sportsman 800EFI would be my quad of choice.
I tried to give you the most accurate description for each ATV as good as i could. Hope i helped.
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2004 Polaris Sportsman 700 (Green)
3000LB Warn Winch
27inch ITP 589 M/S Tires on
ITP Type 5 Wheels
2 inch HL Lift Kit
2004 Polaris Sportsman 500 H.O. Mossy Oak - Stolen
2001 Honda Rancher ES 350 (Green) - Sold.
Posted by: c2tmfp
I know i should let this go but the brute force in not even close to being tipsy. Not even with the stock tires. Also halfway through the 2006 year they changed the caster on the front end which makes it easier to turn. Me and my buddie have 2 brute's a 07 and a 06 and were amazed how stable they r. I dont know what people r comparing them 2 a sport quad?!?!?!!? I have yet to complain about the tipsy issue. As far as power goes we raced a v-force in the DIRT in 4 wheel drive and I beat it by about a quad lenght to 60mph. In 2 wheel drive the brute is just behind the v- force. Plenty of power. As for the other quads dont know or card lol. gl
Posted by: c2tmfp
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Originally posted by: Krait
c2tmfp - Hey thx for your comment. I really didn't think the Brutes were that bad for stability, I guess it depends a lot on what you are used to and what quad you were riding before you got it. You say the 750i's got the caster change midway thru 2006, does yours have the new changes and handling? Or is it different from your buddie's 2007? I would imagine that aftermarket shocks would help a lot in the handling department anyway. Can you powerslide yours?
v2rider - How do you like your Dynatek CDI? I emailed Elka asking about prices for shocks, and they quoted me roughly $1300/pair, CANADIAN. Not sure American price, but it would be lower. Pricey but I can appreciate quality suspension. Works I believe are roughly $900/pair, AMERICAN. Both with compression adjustments, rebound adjust., preload adjust., dual rate springs, and remote/piggyback reservoirs. Not 100% sure of those prices tho. You can also get cheaper models without all the adjustments. Works Steelers with only preload adjust. and dual rate springs remote reservoirs I was quoted roughly $600/pair AMERICAN, don't know the prices for cheaper Elkas.
Thx for the replies guys!
-Krait
Posted by: c2tmfp
I put itp rims and tires on it 26 inch. Now I can power slide all day long, even with the stock tires i could throw the arse end around. You can't lean forward and spin the quad like a v force and do donuts. But you can nail the throttle and slide the arse all over the place. Yes and I know it will get argued back and forth so next time we ride ill take a video of it and post it. I have some vids now you can check out nothing great but shows the power of the BRUTE whats your e mail i will send u the link?
Posted by: c2tmfp
The rincon is not even in the same class as far as im concerned. Im not tryin to put any quads down im just sick of hearin people say the god damn thing is unstable By the way how do u like your king quad? We were lookin at em when we first started lookin at quads but 4 some reason i had to have the brute force. Edited by ATV connection moderator for smallness. My buddy I ride with is also 6'2" tall so he went with the bigger quad. But as far as the brute being unstable not a chance not close. I have the videos to prove it. I have had the damn thing at a 60 degree incline in a movie I have. I guess if u come from a sport quad maybe u feel a difference but can't seem to see or feel this tipsy thing.
Posted by: c2tmfp
Hey post some new pics there brute force bob. Damn your 6'5"???? Iwas way off. Hey r we going to Sodus this weekend???? If u want to we have to go sunday and we can follow whats his name out there on the board, Unless you want to tackle the water hole there you little girl. well im off to look at some porn later
Posted by: c2tmfp
Here are some videos 4 u guysvideo
there is a couple of videos 4 ya
