Pages: 1
Posted by: LotusPosition
<puts down crack pipe and nuclear physics book>
My old Wolverine had no aluminum suspension components, no stupid LED dashboards and had racks, and weighed 480 lbs. The three times that I had it land on me , it hurt me. In a similar situation, a 600 lb bike may have killed or paralyzed me. I did not necessarily want a sport bike (although I like it), but there is NO Freaking way I will buy one of these 600 lb tanks, despite their impressive performance.
A larger cc, more modern (lighter weight) motor, than the 350 Wolverine had, plus aluminum components, should weigh the same or less than 480 lbs, not 600 lbs.
More weight does not mean more durability, more weight means that bigger brakes are needed to stop it, more weight means that a heavier driveline is needed to provide durability, more weight means that a beefier frame is needed, more weight means stronger suspension (more unsprung weight) and on and on and on.
If pure utility is your thing, fine, pile on the weight.
For a performance vehicle, added weight is THE worst thing you can have.
They will sell a ton of these things, but not to me.
Posted by: TractorPacker
Like Napolean Dynomites' grandma, she crashed a stock kfx400.
Posted by: TractorPacker
I thought we were talking grandmas, though.
Mine is lowered and on 18's, at 49" wide, I rolled hard enough to ruin an ACL.
Posted by: reconranger
You can read my comments about this LARD A$$ machine here: http://forums.atvconnection.com/messageview.cfm/catid/17/threadid/488277.cfm
Nothing but a ute without racks, and still 150 pounds to heavy!
Posted by: reconranger
"Nobody really cares, you're a broken record"...........same goes for you, buddddddy! <B>
</B>
Posted by: Mdog
This is the perfect bike for us GNCC UTE racers, my dealer told me the demand is high for it already!
Posted by: Scootergptx
Quote
Originally posted by: 86250rrider
ok cowboy...when your drag racing your buddies down the road to see who gets to be the biggest cowpoke in town,be carefull. while your at it....take out the roll bar in a jeep and hillclimb with it!! of course with full gear on. how did you barrel roll your warrior anyway at 50 ?i have rode quads since 86 and never rolled one sideways. sounds like you better put a little extra body english in your new COWBOY KILLER!!!hr>
I've barrel rolled my crappy Trail Boss. Weighed in at just under 500. It's possible to do it on any quad. Just takes a nad or two to run anything at your and the machines limits.
Posted by: Scootergptx
Quote
Originally posted by: 86250rrider
your right about that. you gou quite a stable of hot machines there to test you abilties.3 of the slowest popos made. dude ...your funny. i guess i never will be up to the extreme riding that can be performed on a trail boss 250 ! those three machines are too weak for my woman . dont be haten now hr>
I gotta have a tank. Keep running into the people riding sporties that are afraid of mud. BR>Don't need a machine to wear out my woman, I do that all on my own. BR>
j/k
Posted by: twentycharacters
Quote
Personally I don't think the parent company is finanically strong enough to do so, but think if they would have brought this thing out at, say, $7,500. People would be beating each other with sticks just to get their name on the list to get one.
i see im not the only one concerned about the financial matters as in the other thread.
a HP LIGHT WEIGHT 4x4 is where the market needs to go. there is much more sales opportunity there b/c there isnt one out yet (no, the wolverine 450 doesnt count and everyone has a heavy @ss 4x4 already) and there's allot of demand for it. more demand for that than a 700lb lard @ss, overpriced renegade.
sure the rengade will be typical good bomb quality- so dont misquote me as bashing IT for the sake of bashing again-but c'mon; a lighter weight 4x4 bike with more HP will stomp this one and still go places where this one can and cant.
Posted by: twentycharacters
Quote
You boys with your Nuclear Physics degree's are killin me.. WTF are ya'll smokin with your lightweight?
A) durability is going to require weight...
not really. it would require better engineering. not heaviness.
so lets remember this: heaviness = durabilty.... were gong to come back to this...
stay with me here, you know, since we are nuclear physicists and stuff here and i dont want to lose you: i fighter jet has alot of thrust and has to have some incredible tolerances and durability to sustain itself, maneuver, dodge stuff, etc - way more so than a lardass machine with a fat @ss on it going up a little hill or through some mud. we are talking G forces. so if the philosophy is heaviness= durablty, then why are these things made as light as possible with much titanium (which is like 5x stronger than steel) ? i m mean you said durability requires weight, right? they should be made of iron according to your analysis...
another example is - a Jeep. what will kill the average pickup 4x4 bad @ss truck through the mud up a hill, rocks, etc a jeep. been like that ever since i can remember. seen many jeeps pulling a hotshot truck out of a hole many times. jeeps are durable...but they are not as heavy as a truck. seems to defy the heaviness = durability conclusion.
Posted by: twentycharacters
i didnt exactly say build it out of titanium....but some innovation would be nice to see other than a ute without racks.
point is i think they could make one in the 450lb range, utilizing aluminum everywhere posssible and no racks b/c the intent of a bike of this nature is not really to be a pure utility bike but a HP LIGHT 4x4 sport machine for the non tank loving crowd that values power to weight ratio and handling over bragging rights on who has the heaviest bike or biggest engine.
my truck has an aluminum driveshaft to save weight, the YFZ has aluminum upper a-arms, swingarm, etc. it can be done, guys and it wont have to cost 10K or 20K either.
the first step to reality is a "dream," as you call it. it can and it will happen. and it is going to sell well - it is going to be lighter, quicker, better handling than any 800cc tank out there.
btw, honda has been testing a bike of this nature. so i guess there is some reality behind this "dream, " afterall. everyone watches what honda does whether they admit to or not. Every OEM constantly compares themselves to honda this, honda that....
Posted by: NLWarrior01
Quote
Originally posted by: OneFlyCowboy
I dunno. I know lots of people ... or just have a warrior..
Ahhh my poor Warrior .. wish I still had her .. though true, I was looking to trade up a bit .. maybe a z400 or something like it .. but that old Warrior put a lot of smiles on my face ..
*end nostalgic feeling*
Posted by: Scooter86
There is a huge market for this thing, guys like me that want a sporty, hardcore trailrider that can handle itself in snow and mud as well as fair weather riding. Plenty of people out there that don't need racks or much in the way of work capability but want the versatility of 4x4. 9K+ is a bit optimistic from my point of view, but maybe this critter will help open up the sportier side of 4x4's.
Posted by: motox26
Quote
Originally posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Also honda is testing this just like they been testing the TRX650 for the last 10 years. will honda step up? Not likely..
Them bastages have been teasing me for years. And I still don't understand why they havn't pulled the trigger on certain projects years ago.
Posted by: motox26
Quote
Originally posted by: 86250rrider how did you barrel roll your warrior anyway at 50 ?i have rode quads since 86 and never rolled one sideways.
LMAO!!! Well you must ride like Grandma!BR>
EVERYONE who rides hard winds up rolling adventually, from Pro's to Schmo's! Even a few Grannys ride hard enough to roll one.
Posted by: motox26
Quote
Originally posted by: 86250rrider those three machines are too weak for my woman .
So you're sayin your woman has a big "Badonkydonk"?
Posted by: 86250rrider
ahmen to that lotus! that particular bike is at my limit for weight also.when i want to rip ..i ride the r,when i want to trail ride in muddy or unknown conditions i take the wolvy. could you imagine a 700 lb machine in a high speed rollover.....ugh!! i want to run that 700...lets go !! i bet that renegade will tear up many a mudhole though
Posted by: 86250rrider
ok cowboy...when your drag racing your buddies down the road to see who gets to be the biggest cowpoke in town,be carefull. while your at it....take out the roll bar in a jeep and hillclimb with it!! of course with full gear on. how did you barrel roll your warrior anyway at 50 ?i have rode quads since 86 and never rolled one sideways. sounds like you better put a little extra body english in your new COWBOY KILLER!!!
Posted by: 86250rrider
your right about that. you gou quite a stable of hot machines there to test you abilties.3 of the slowest popos made. dude ...your funny. i guess i never will be up to the extreme riding that can be performed on a trail boss 250 ! those three machines are too weak for my woman . dont be haten now
Posted by: 86250rrider
hmmmmm... mywolverine chassis,outy 800 motor,6 speed with clutch,already have 424,gearless locker up front,mudlite xls i have already= one sweet trail machine !!!!
Posted by: Daranello75
I LOVE IT, SIGN ME UP! plus it can carry 200lbs on the rear clip in rack and can also carry a winch. I dont want all the other utillity stuff thats on a quad
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
I DO.
Whats trash to one is treasure to another.
The bike is designed for aggressive trail with additional terrain capability. Its a great Piece of the market which has yet to be fullfilled but by a scrambler or wolverine.
Just becasue my raptor does 70.. how much time do i spend doin 70? I spend allotta time going 15 accel to 45 brake to 15. The faster you can do each of those steps that faster you can ride. If you wanna ride a motocross track.. get a 450.
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
What does it cost for a set of Holeshot ATRs on aluminum wheels? thats right over 600 dollars.. the renagade is 500 more than a bare outlander and It has allotta nifty additional features suited to its market. Differnt riding ergonomics, Different shox, looks pretty cool..
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
I dunno. I know lots of people that just have a raptor.. or just have a warrior.. I would much rather just have a renegade. everything Shy of jumpin is a blast and way less fatiguing than the sport bikes. they weight is nice for smothing out the rough chit
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: Mdog
This is the perfect bike for us GNCC UTE racers, my dealer told me the demand is high for it already!
I don't race and already have an outty at the house so this will look real nice parked next to the outty and if i need winched the outty has one.
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
You boys with your Nuclear Physics degree's are killin me.. WTF are ya'll smokin with your lightweight?
A) durability is going to require weight...
B) whats a YFZ weigh? oh yeah about three fitty... Now go and take one of your got dam UTES apart and throw the drivelines Axles, differential Pluss the beefed section of the frame to withstand the differnt forces jackin on the bike and tell me what that weighs.. About 150 at least. so your NOT going to see less than 500 in a wet dream. let alone reality..
C) Motor Weight also plays a big factor.. You could put the smaller 500 twin like yamaha.. but that things gonna be a ticking time bomb and while the high output would be cool./ Id wager if you spending 10 grand on a quad you wanna be able to ride for more than a few hundred miles before an overhaul. So your motor needs to weight a lil more for the longevity and reliability factor.
Stop Hittin the crack pipe and think about sompin before you spout off garbage.
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: twentycharacters
so if the philosophy is heaviness= durablty, then why are these things made as light as possible with much titanium (which is like 5x stronger than steel) ? i m mean you said durability requires weight, right? they should be made of iron according to your analysis...
.
Well if you want titanium its gonna be 20 grand instead of 10. Hey i guess if you want it your gonna pay for it.. Get on the engineering and open up your pocket book.
It all costs money.... How much do you wanna spend.. Cuz your fantasy's are gonna outrun the markets pocketbook in a big hurry.
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: RancherATCrazy
I love the Idea, I would love to ride one to see what it really can do before I bought though.
You can come over and ride mine in about 7 months
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
the renegade has Aluminum upper arms. and how is it not inovative? the SST frame is differnt than everybody elses chit along with the trailing arm rear. they set it up in a more performance oriented package than utility. If you don't like it don't buy it. But its lightyears ahead of anything else offered in its realm.
Also honda is testing this just like they been testing the TRX650 for the last 10 years. will honda step up? Not likely..
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Say you make wigets.. and your thinkin of makin a waget.. Its real similar to the widget. But the ultimate goal of the waget is to be better. but first you need to test the market for the 2waget cuz you have a good market for the wiget already. So in developing the waget you use as much incomon parts with the widget so you don't have the full on tooling expense for the new model.. After you find that the waget is a hit you can come out with a completly new one using its own unique setup. But Its best to get your feet wet before Diving in headfirst. smart business move on Can-am's part.
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: RancherATCrazy
Quote
Originally posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: RancherATCrazy
I love the Idea, I would love to ride one to see what it really can do before I bought though.
You can come over and ride mine in about 7 months hr>
Ahh so this is what you have been talking about on the PSAR side Say the word man I will be there!
Sorta.. the outty 800 xt landed a while ago.. renegade is next
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: RancherATCrazy
What kind of quads do you have? I figured you for a sporty guy like most on PSAR.
At the ranch there is 2 warriors, 1 400ex, 1 sportsman 500, 1 sportsman 700, 2 raptor 660's 1 outty 800 xt I ride whatever i feel like on a given day
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: motox26
Quote
Originally posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Also honda is testing this just like they been testing the TRX650 for the last 10 years. will honda step up? Not likely..
Them bastages have been teasing me for years. And I still don't understand why they havn't pulled the trigger on certain projects years ago.hr>
becasue they are scared.. they keep on pullin out.. they lead on that its go time. and when its time for the money shot they pull out and head home
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: 86250rrider
ahmen to that lotus! that particular bike is at my limit for weight also.when i want to rip ..i ride the r,when i want to trail ride in muddy or unknown conditions i take the wolvy. could you imagine a 700 lb machine in a high speed rollover.....ugh!! i want to run that 700...lets go !! i bet that renegade will tear up many a mudhole thoughhr>
If your in a highspeed rollover on one its your own dam fault for riding outside your ability and to fast for the conditions. 700 lbs or 400 lbs at 60mph tumbling It aint gonna be pretty. I barrelrooled a warrior at 50 mph two rolls stayed on the seat and at the 3rd roll i was pitched and nearly run over by my buddy.. Wear your safty equipment if you gonna be a retard. Otherwise ride within your means and you shouldnt have to worry about the weight landing on you.. Think ahead when your riding so you know what to expect. If you gonna do a stupid hill climb. KNOW YOUR ESCAPE BEFORE YOU GO UP IT not ohh im just gonna make it.. Its called defensive quad riding.. Just like defensive driving. Plan your moves in advance and always have an escape route
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: 86250rrider
ok cowboy...when your drag racing your buddies down the road to see who gets to be the biggest cowpoke in town,be carefull. while your at it....take out the roll bar in a jeep and hillclimb with it!! of course with full gear on. how did you barrel roll your warrior anyway at 50 ?i have rode quads since 86 and never rolled one sideways. sounds like you better put a little extra body english in your new COWBOY KILLER!!!hr>
Its called sliding sidways on a road with a buddy tryin to pass on the inside pushed me out and and dropped into a rut. I had allotta body english my friend. No avoiding it. we were goin to fast for the corner. and it was my fault i crashed not the quad. Hell i shoulda sued yamaha for makin such a pile of crap dangerous quad i guess cuz it rolled
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: TractorPacker
Like Napolean Dynomites' grandma, she crashed a stock kfx400.
That woman can tear it up . What about ladyjay.. Ive seen her do a sweet barrel roll on her LTZ400 Say Didnt you barrel rool your 450
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: TractorPacker
I thought we were talking grandmas, though.
Mine is lowered and on 18's, at 49" wide, I rolled hard enough to ruin an ACL.
You better give me all your trophys cuz your obviously not good enough to have possesion of those since you rolled your quad
Posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: TPR
Many would change their tune if they were to see what these things can do under racing conditions. According to the guys racing them in the SCORE and BITD series, outside from a little more body roll in the high sweepers due to the independent suspension, they have never been able to cover as much ground as fast as they can on these.
TPR
This should be known as they are a big machine so you compensate and plan your attack for how the machine handles.. You dont drive a truck the same way you would drive a porche. but trucks are too dangerous we shouldnt drive them..
All i know.. Is compared to my raptor.. the Outlander is WAY LESS FATIGING. the lack of jarring hits is nice. and in 4wd when your hittin logs and crap your tires redirect the force of the impact that helps allot and reduces fatigue. I can ride 50 miles thru the woods basically riding a wheelie but thats tiring hanging off the back keepin the front end up.
Posted by: raidermike67
I can't wait, selling two quads and a dirtbike this summer so I can get one this fall.
Posted by: raidermike67
Mike,
I talked to my dealer on Saturday, he said that the initial batch will be only about 50 bikes. He said that the real volume won't show up until about March. Might not want sell just yet, unless of course you know someone who knows someone if you know what I mean. Good Luck getting one of the first ones, I would at least hold on to your DS.
>>>>>>>>>>
Ughhhh......March huh? Shouldn't be a surprise, dealers here haven't even seen the Outlander 650 yet.
Posted by: raidermike67
You can read my comments about this LARD A$$ machine here: http://forums.atvconnection.com/messageview.cfm/catid/17/threadid/488277.cfm
Nothing but a ute without racks, and still 150 pounds to heavy!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nobody really cares, you're a broken record.
Posted by: raidermike67
Well if you want titanium its gonna be 20 grand instead of 10. Hey i guess if you want it your gonna pay for it.. Get on the engineering and open up your pocket book.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Why not carbon fiber as well? Stronger then steel at a fraction of the weight.....
Imagine how safe a titanium/carbon fiber 300 LB, 650cc utility quad would be.
Simply not cost effective.
Seems the one's complaining the most about the weight of these quads are the ones who don't even ride them.
Posted by: Dirtydude
Who in the hell needs a damm Renegade? This has got to be one of the most retarded things I ever seen.
It would be faster than a Outty 800 sure, but dayam! it's still a 600 pound 4x4, who needs to do 80 friggn mph on a 600 pound ute w/o racks?
This is gettin stupid me thinks
You wouldn't be able to ride a track like any 450 class machine, it wouldn't dune worth a crap, wouldn't jump worth a crap..
This looks like a shaved Outty 800 made for one purpose, punch the throttle on an airport runway and brag that you beat the guy on the ute. I cannot think of a purpose for this machine that a regular Outty 800 wouldn't serve
Posted by: Dirtydude
sure seems like a "nichey" bike for what 9g?
Is it really any different that a stripped down Outty 800? SOme different plastics, peel the racks, stiffer springs and violla`!
blah
Posted by: Dirtydude
Ya, might be fun I guess but I couldn't see it being an "only" quad
This seems more like a quad someone would get if they already had a race bike and a Ute I suppose. Cause you sure couldn't Ute or Race worth a damm
Posted by: JimJa
The ATV market is dog eat dog at the moment. Everyone is looking for the segment no one else has, hoping to capitalize on it, get a little more name recognition and firm up their place in the market. This is exactly what Can-Am hopes the Rengade will do. If it's successful at the price point look for other mfgrs to come out with a similar type machine as soon as they can. Right or wrong, the market will decide and as customers we benefit with greater choices. You don't have to like any particular choice.
Personally I don't think the parent company is finanically strong enough to do so, but think if they would have brought this thing out at, say, $7,500. People would be beating each other with sticks just to get their name on the list to get one. There would be more buzz on the street than there is already and more than when the 800 came out and that would be a very good thing for the company.
Posted by: TPR
Many would change their tune if they were to see what these things can do under racing conditions. According to the guys racing them in the SCORE and BITD series, outside from a little more body roll in the high sweepers due to the independent suspension, they have never been able to cover as much ground as fast as they can on these. I can also assure you that the likes of Penland, Kilby and Epic are already working on improving the handling even more. They've already made great strides in those areas. Plus, all the beatings they have put on the Outlander's the Renegade came from have allowed them to discover problem areas and addressed them.
TPR
Posted by: newbomber
Quote
Originally posted by: raidermike67
I can't wait, selling two quads and a dirtbike this summer so I can get one this fall.
Mike,
I talked to my dealer on Saturday, he said that the initial batch will be only about 50 bikes. He said that the real volume won't show up until about March. Might not want sell just yet, unless of course you know someone who knows someone if you know what I mean. Good Luck getting one of the first ones, I would at least hold on to your DS.
Posted by: LawdogB2
Quote
Originally posted by: reconranger
"Nobody really cares, you're a broken record"...........same goes for you, buddddddy! <B>
</B>
I'll second that.
Posted by: RancherATCrazy
I love the Idea, I would love to ride one to see what it really can do before I bought though.
Posted by: RancherATCrazy
Quote
Originally posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: RancherATCrazy
I love the Idea, I would love to ride one to see what it really can do before I bought though.
You can come over and ride mine in about 7 months hr>
Ahh so this is what you have been talking about on the PSAR side Say the word man I will be there!
Posted by: RancherATCrazy
Quote
Originally posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: RancherATCrazy
Quote
Originally posted by: OneFlyCowboy
Quote
Originally posted by: RancherATCrazy
I love the Idea, I would love to ride one to see what it really can do before I bought though.
You can come over and ride mine in about 7 months hr>
Ahh so this is what you have been talking about on the PSAR side Say the word man I will be there!
Sorta.. the outty 800 xt landed a while ago.. renegade is next
What kind of quads do you have? I figured you for a sporty guy like most on PSAR.
