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Posted by: action450s
I have a 450 forman which is air/oil cooled. There is a radiator with fan for engine oil, and not matter what I've tried, I've never overheated mine, so I'm sure you'll be safe with the even better set up on the new forman 500.
I like manual shift too, I really cant see what the dealer was talking about the manual being more troublesome then the auto, I mean there are no wearable parts. The clutch maybe,-mine is 7 years old and never been touched, I'm sure you'll be replacing the belt in an auto within 7 years!!!
Both are good units, I'd lean towards Honda based on my experience and lack of troubles with my current forman.
Posted by: action450s
And all the 450 Formans came stock with one oil cooler and fan from the factory. Mounted just ahead of the engine.
Posted by: ThrashAndCrashUntilItsTrash
I have to support the water cooled idea here, and I am a manual shift guy myself!
Posted by: JeffinTD
Those two machines were on my short list also.
I think you will find the Vinson makes power in a little higher RPM range than the Honda, and if I recall correctly I think the Vinson also had a front end lock. I felt both are good looking, quality quads, and for me the local dealer is pretty nice and sells both.
Personally, I went Foreman. If you get a radiator mudpacked, it will overheat. So far (knock on wood) my Foreman has never overheated. I was also interested in absolute reliability since I sometimes go out alone, and a leaking hose or stick through the radiator could leave you hiking.
Also, though I have owned Suzuki product that held up well, I have found Honda deserves it's reputation for outstanding reliability and design, but that's just my humble opinion. To be fair, Honda seems a little slow in offering features people want, like locking front diff, the ability to go in and out of 4x4, disk brakes.
In the long run, I suspect you will be happy with either machine, so go buy whichever one calls to you and go ride.
Posted by: JeffinTD
True the Vinson's axles are driven by drive shaft, but the auto transmission is a CVT Belt, like a snow mobile, and like pretty much every automatic quad (except Hondas).
Yes, belt drives are better than they used to be, but they still shread. A while back there was a nearly new quad back at the dealership, that toasted the belt after a couple of rides. One of the magazines did a review on an 800 last summer, and had a belt fail during their review. Surprisingly, they still gave it a pretty postive review, so apparently reliability is not as high on their list as it is on mine.
The 500 Artic Cat seems to be popular among the mud bog crowd, apparently because it is a gear on gear transmission (so slippage is not an issue) that also has independent suspension (easier to get big lift)... also the motor is easy to hot rod.
On the other hand, a buddy of mine has a Eiger belt drive, and his has yet to have any issue, but then he doesn't tow or plow and he has less than 1000 miles so far... and he doesn't pretend it is a submarine.
Also, if you weren't aware, the Foreman has 2 oil coolers, and an electric fan...
Posted by: JeffinTD
The 500 Foreman has two oil coolers from the factory, and an electric cooling fan.
The upper cooler is under the front rack, up high so it can't get bogged up with mud. It is behind the little scoop, and farther back there is a cover secured with a screw. The cover comes off to allow you to clean out the upper oil cooler.
The other oil cooler is down lower.
Posted by: JeffinTD
Actually, having floorboards is one of the reasons I got an 05 500 foreman, instead of one of the closeout 04 450's.
I agree that the Rubicon is also a very nice machine. For me, though, I didn't feel that I could justify the extra cost, especially when I preferred a foot shift anyway.
Though I haven't had trouble getting my boot under the shifter, my quad can be stiff to shift the first time through the gears after it has been sitting. That heel-toe setup sounds like a neat idea. Since I have a Road King, it wouldn't take much for me to get used to it.
Posted by: JeffinTD
Oooo, good point, that is a disadvantage to a foot shifter. Had to get my arm wet, too, to reach the winch cable.
I think under that water are two ruts made by something much bigger than my machine. I could rock the machine side to side with the wheels pretty much just spinning in water.
Anyhow, that is the Tillimook off road vehicle park, which includes Browns Camp and Jordan creek areas. It is on Hwy 6 west of Portland Oregon and has around 100 miles of trail.
It's one of the most fun spots I have ridden in so far, especially when its wet.
Posted by: propnut
not to take anything away from the 2 in the title as they are great machines and both were on my short list (because of the 5 speed), but don't overlook the Rubicon. I do not regret it.
I could not get my boots under the shifter on the Vinson, but I wanted full boards which the Foreman didn't have.
My Arctic Cat had a heel/toe. Weird, but I got use to it and never got my foot stuck under the shifter.
hydraulic ESP is a smoother shift than the semi-autos. All the engine braking too.
Posted by: propnut
Hey JeffinTD, that picture of you going Oops reminds me of why I don't miss the foot shifter anymore
I love trails like that, where is it?
Posted by: Hoopie
the suzuki vinson manual is a great quad. very sport in 2wd and in 4wd still goes through its fair share of mud. very nice looking too and very reliable engine trans combo. I dont like the autos. I had and have a few of them and you will always get belt troulbles with them no matter what. With a manual just change the oil frequently and your good to go. not to mention way better control of the engine.
Posted by: Hoopie
Any mudder will tell you a manual is better in the mud than a belt drive. On the autos you ussually have to change clutch springs once you go to bigger tires or you run the risk of burning up the belt. on manuals you dont have to. My opionion is if your going to use the quad for working and mudding\water get a manual and if you going to use it for primarly trail riding get the auto. The auto's have gotten better over the years but some still let in water and dirt. Auto is nice and conveniant though. Also if mud\water riding, liquad cooled is better. You cant get air to the engine to cool it when its packed in mud! Oil cooled is also good.
It sounds like your dealer is trying to push you the vehicles that require the most maintenance in the auto's and in the polaris. Gee, imagine that. I dont blame u for staying away from polaris in the utilty market. Seems thats there to many reliability problems if ridden hard and no matter what they require more maintenance. Im not polaris bashing here, I own two polaris quads and like them alot. Good luck!
Posted by: IdahoVinnie
If you had air cooled and were working it through the mud and it heated up, what do you do? You sit and wait for it to cool off. (Go water cooled.)
I traded a Foreman electronic shift on my Vinson auto, and LOVE it. I plow a lot, and the low range works very well, and still has acceptable speed (in low range).
Hope that helps.
Posted by: goosebus
First time purchase! Wanting to buy before year end and could use some help. Thoughts on water cool vs. air cool? Use is for our duck/goose lease with lots of mud and water. Going with manual shift not auto.(I think) just to avoid any shifting probs. that seem to be apparent with honda. Seems all quads are good in their own way. Just wanted any input available from anyone with honda/suzuki as i've narrowed down to these two.
Posted by: goosebus
Honda dealers here are very biased. I already know they have good machine but they seem to be more interested in gettin my money and OTD than talking of any issues and cures they may have seen in which might want me to buy honda instead of suzuki. Still debating on auto. vs. manual. Auto. would be great but seems as if all quads are subject to water issues. Manuals seem more reliable. Maybe I'm putting too much into this and have answered my own ?'s. Just need some reinforcement from those whom have already gone thru this headache. Thanks for reply.
Posted by: goosebus
Just back from dealerships. Suzuki tellin me auto's are shaft driven (for 06 vinson) with no belts. Says more probs. with manual rather than auto. Then trys to push polaris. Not Intersted. I think i know that suzuki's do have a primary belt linked w/a final drive shaft. Please correct me if i'm wrong. The belt thing is not a big deal to me, too many out there still pluggin away. Assured transmissions are sealed better today than earlier models where water did create some probs. but not anymore. Went to honda and really liked the suspension and overall looks real solid. They suggested stay with manual for my use. We don't get snow down here just deep thick mud so for all the guys pushing plows I have no idea how to compare a quad used to push snowplow against same quad trying to lug thru deep mud /water.
Posted by: goosebus
I was unaware of oil cooler with fan on foreman. Is that standard or did you install? Where is it? Sure wish honda had more ground clearance (i.e. vinson) but like the suspension better on foreman. Inputs have helped me make one decision though, i'm going manual. Can you take off the foot shifter lever off the spindle and roll it up a space or two to get more clearance for boots? Suzuki's shifter are awfuly low to floorboard!
Posted by: MtVinny
I have a '03 manual Vinson and love it! In 2wd it feels like a sport quad, slides and handles awesome. Put it in 4wd and it goes anywhere. One of (if not the best) looking utility quads out there also. (in my opinion). Hondas are good machines though. Our Honda dealer here sucks so that wasn't even an option for me.
