Pages: 1
Posted by: OffRder15
One could probly score a better deal on the KQ too.
Posted by: cc1999
What is everyones thoughts on how these two will compare. Power, handeling, reliability, ect, ect, ect.
Posted by: cc1999
It was my understanding that there were some changes in the trans gearing to improve the engine breaking. That maybe wrong, I was thinking I read that somewhere. I know Honda Motors have historicaly been pretty mild but the King never seemed all that peppy for a 700 to me. I was thinking the Honda might be a pretty close match with the king. I am thinking that if I were in the market for a 700 EFI machine I would have to look real close at the honda, I think the things that makes me favor the Honda is one the gear trans vs the belt, 2. The lower center of gravity for more stabilty and better handeling, and 3. the power of these 700's is not all that important since neither machine will be a class leader in the power department since there are 760's, 750's and 800 twins on the market we already know are faster and more powerful .
Posted by: cc1999
Goblin I am with you in that the King is likely to be a little more powerfull. But my point was that the typical buyers looking at this catagory are not going for the fastest nor the most powerfull, if they were neither of these two would be there choice with so many other more powerfull and faster machines on the market. Its kind of similar to the way the 500cc class has come to be more feature driven to sway buys from one 500 model and brabd to another. You seldome here fokes chosing a 500cc machine over another because of power and speed. Ithink that is about were the 650 to 700 class machines have come to now. With 800's and 750-760's on the market with kawi working on 800's for 07'. That said that was why my reason #3 was that power was not of ultimate importance, and that if reliability, handeling and ride quality are better on the Honda then I can see the Honda will be taking a chunk of Suki's market share. The king is a great all around quad but this Honda Rincon Seems to be pretty close to the same except for some minor difference. To me those minor differences tilt my preffernce to the Honda.
Posted by: cc1999
I have not owned a Honda in a number of years, but I am in alot of forums and I seldom see Honda have the 1st year issues the likes of the KQ and its ECM EFI failures and Reverse issues. The last Honda we bought was a Forman ES wich was a 1st year quad and the ES was alitle problematic on long rides, but honda was thinking and provided a manual shift lever that worked great to get you back in. We had to tow one of our new KQ's in over 30 miles, just a few weeks ago when the ECM/EFI went out up in the mountains. I think from past experince Honda puts a little more thought (R&D) in there machines. Most likely why they are always behind the curve on new products. Honda's overall reliabilty is pretty hard to beat. Also with the improved brakes I think the engine braking will be less of an issue. I know about half the time I wish I could turn off the Engine brake on my Polaris, particuarly when its locking up the rear on steap rocky desents causing the control issues. I realy never saw the lack of engine braking on the Honda as that big of a deal, The ones that I have road seemed to be able to get some engine braking out of 1st gear in maual mode anyway, just not near what you get on other belt drive quads. If I were buying one today I think I would be hard pressed to not go with the Honda. That said the 2006 KQ in Black is darn sharp looking.
Posted by: cc1999
I never said the KQ nor the Rincon did not have enough Power. I said for the fokes shopping for Power and Power is the number one important thing to them that neither one of these two quads would be in the running. These are both very good all around quads. Both great trail machines. To play in the power wars these days it takes more than a 700 and more than one Cylinder. Yes I would agree that if and when some modules and other aftermarket upgrades come available that the KQ might very well be able to keep up with a Brute 750, but keep in mind there are all kinds of modds on the market for the Kawi twins, so if the Brute has mods then the king is back in the same boat its in now perfomance wise. So what I am trying to say here is that both the King and the Rincon are somewhat mid-pack in the performance area of the big bore machines so the extra bike length or two the KQ might or might not have over the Rincon is not likely as important to the fokes looking at buying a 700 EFI machine. You have to admit if you are a power shopper like myself there is no substitute for the Bomb 800 HO EFI V-twin on the market right now. Kawi is said to be working very hard on try to trump the Bomb with a 800EFI of there own. You can bet Polaris will be in the Hunt as well by next year or no later then 07'. Suki and Honda have always seemed pretty happy with the Mid pack performance thing and there is nothing wrong with that. They both sell alot of machines to alot of happy customers. I myself given the choice between the KQ and the Honda would want to ride the new honda first but going by the improvements over the 650 would tend to lean toward the Rincon.
Quote
cc1999, thanks for the response. I have an existing response going in another section with a few belt ?'s on the KQ in general like how bad are they in terms of getting them wet, when do they need to be replaced (how long do they last), and how much would a dealer charge to install a new one
stocks
As far as the Kq's we have, we have never been stranded by a belt problem nor have we ever had problems of any kind in relation to them getting wet. The only issue I have with the KQ's belt drive is 1. the cost of the belt is in the 200.00 range,(Kawi and Polaris are under 100.00) and 2. The owners manual say's to inspect at 600 miles and change at 1200 miles. To me 200 bucks plus labor seems kinda steep every 1200 miles of riding. We do not have 1200 miles on any of ours yet but I was on a forum a few months ago talking with some guy's that were po'ed about there belts being wornout at 1200 miles and they said they wore out right at the 1200 miles the book said they would. except the guy that only got 600 out of his but he admitted he had been abusive to his. So when the manufacture tells you it will were out in 1200 miles and the guys I talked to that were at that time po'ed because they did, and were hunting for a better deal on belts. I tend to think that is something that makes me think the gear trans on the Rincon might be worth a buck or two extra and that is the main reason I would tend to lean toward the Honda, that and I like the stability of the Honda just a tiny bit better than the KQ. The KQ's we have, have been good except the one the ECM failed on, that was iritating but not the end of the world. it just did it at a very bad time.
Posted by: cc1999
I would agree with you that Suzuki has some great machines in its line up, however the Z400 kind of makes the point I was just talking about, from the day it was released it handeled as well as the honda 400ex but fell short in the power department with the likes of the raptor, DS650. As far as power goes Praries can outrun stock Z400s in drags. I have done it many times at the dunes with my praries and my suki's Twin Peaks cloans. The new 450's abilities are yet to be seen since it has not been released yet. The new 700 Raptor might be a little tuff for the new 450 to outrun, we will have to wait and see how it turns out. I do however put the Vinson at the top of my list as well in the 500 ute class. The ozark is also at the top of my list in entry level quads, however I would have a hard time chosing between the ozark and the Recon. The eiger I would have to disagree with you, I tend to say it is tossup for me between the Kodiac's and Rancher's in the 400 class machines, and if price was not important I would pic the Outlander as a clear leader in the 400cc class. Much the same as the 800 Outlander seems to be the clear leader in the Big bore class.
Posted by: cc1999
Maybe so, but it is there top sport model then and now, and is not head of its class as you were indicating. I do remember it being compared to the Raptor and the 400ex when it came out since those three were the top models from the big 3 mfg's. It may have been the top 400 cc sport, but there were only 2 the suki and the honda back then that were making 400cc sports I think thats still the case now.The AC and the Kawi's are just cloans of the Z400. It was not head of the sport class in power. Which was what I was talking about a few post back when I said the KQ was somewhat mid pack in the power department. Meaning again that it cannot run with the big twins of other mfg's in the performance department. If Suki wants to be head of the UTE power game they need to swich motors to at least a well tuned EFI 750+ twin or to be safe 800+ twin. I am thinking you are trying to tell me the KQ is not mid pack in the Power department, if its not what would you rather me call it. I know of at least 4 Big Bore machines on the market today that will outrun it. There are only about 9 big bores on the market that I can think of at the moment, and knowing from experince that it resides at about #5 in power I refeered to it as mid pack, I was doing my best to still be honset and try not to offend KQ owners with my thoughts on the matter.
Posted by: cc1999
Toyeboy, I beleive you are correct on the locker issue. I am not sure how the traxlock system works. The brakes issue has been solved with tripple disc brakes instead of tripple drumb brakes on the new Rincons. From past experince 20cc is not always a guaranty that one engine will be more powerfull than another. Look at the Honda and Yamaha 450's and how they both put out more power than the Raptor 660's. I also have a P650 that is well tuned and puts out 1 hp more than a stock P700 on back to back dyno runs. There is alsmost 70cc difference there. Not saying the Honda is going to be more powerfull than a KQ, and going by there past products perfomace traits, I too doubt it will be. I will however be surprised if it is not at least close in power.
I tend to like to break things down to advantages and dissadvantages
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Power = advantage KQ ???
Handaling = Slight advantage Rincon
Reliabilty = Advantage Rincon
EFI = a Tie
Trans reliability = Advantage Rincon
Traction ability = Advantade KQ
Engine Braking ability = Advantage KQ
Looks = Tie
Seat comfort = Tie
overall Ergo's = slight Advantage Rincon
Work ability = advantage Rincon (No Belts)
Stability = advantage Rincon
Ground clearance = Advantage KQ
Color choices = advantage KQ
Gage cluster = Aadvantage Rincon (available GPS)
Price = Advantage KQ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me those are my most important issues and the score for me is 7 to 6 In favor of the Honda.
Posted by: cc1999
Thanks crblick, I knew it had some kind of traction system on it. I just did not know how the traxlock worked. Good info.
goblin, if you want to pin it down to a class why throw in the 350's the warrior is an entry level sport quad that was almost an antic when the Z400 came out. Lets just use 400cc only as a class and the Z400 is the winner. I could argue that the Z400 has been racing in the field with the Yami 450 and Honda 450's on the track both of wich will out perform the Raptor 660 in everthing but backing up. So in the 400 class the Z400 beats the only other 400 out there the Honda 400ex a machine that came out in 1998, I would expect the Z400 to beat it since it hit the market 4 or 5 years later. If Suki had wanted to realy up the anty they would have used one of there race dirt bikes motors in stead of the trail / enduro 400, like they are working on now. My point is still that Honda and Suki tend to be more mid pack followers rather than rule bending inovators in the market. That is not ment as a slam on honda or Suki just an avid fan of all things atv oppsevation.
Posted by: cc1999
The 350 Raptor or Warrior that was out when the Z400 hit the market was a 10 year old quad with a utility quad motor. They were not fast at all, they had horrable ergo's and very old tech suspension and is 50cc light.If you wont put the 450's in with the Z400 then you cant put the entry level 300-350 class in with it either. I cant think of any magazine shootouts putting them together. The new Raptor 350 does have an improved suspesion but still is more in the 300ex's class not the 400ex or Z400 class. The difference in performance of a raptor 350 / warrior to the 400ex is like the Raptor to the 400 ex. Years ago I had a warrior when my brother had his 300ex trust me those two are, and belong in the entry level sport class, They run out very close with the Honda having the edge in handeling.
Posted by: cc1999
OK fine you can toss in the machines 50cc's smaller and I will toss in the machines 50cc's larger and we are back to what I said in the begining that the Z400 was mid pack. I wish you would make your point since this thread is about the new 700 EFI Rincon vs the KQ and there pro's and con's , and not the proper classification of sport quads. I realy have not cared much about sport quads in the past few years, they are just not my cup of tea anymore. So however you want to set it up to have the Z400 come out the best is fine with me. I don't have one, I don't want one, and it realy does not matter that much to me.
Posted by: cc1999
Look, I have said many times Suki makes good products. But leader they are not. They were the last mfg to even come out with a big bore machine. Honda, Kawi, Polaris, and Yamaha have offered big bore quads for at least 4 years now and Suki has had there own for only 1 year, They did make a pretty good one but not realy a class leader IMO. Bomb set out to make a class leader and has IMO set a new standard that will take a while to be beat. The KQ is not realy the best at any one thig but realy good at almost all of them. Its a great quad, but not the best. Kawi has been the class leader for almost all of the last 4 years and depending on what article you are reading it still did very well against the KQ last year even with an SRA chassis. I myself given a choice and I have that choice choose to ride my Twin peaks /Prairie over the King and my SP800. Now here in a few weeks that might be going to change when my Outlander gets here but right now I still choose to ride the Twin peaks almost ever time over all the other machines we have.
Posted by: cc1999
Quote
These are both very good all around quads. Both great trail machines.
Quote
I have said many times Suki makes good products
These are just some of the things I said in this thread. I do mean them. I do beleive the KQ is a great quad. I do not want to try make like its the greatest one ever designed or ever will be, because I know its not. There are allot of choices on the market today and they just keep getting better. So when a mfg see's the market going to twins and launches a big mono jug I have trouble thinking of them as a class leader. Had the KQ been at least a twin or better yet a 750 or 800 twin I would be more likely to say they were shooting for number 1 rather than good allaround like Honda seems to do. I know Suki is dominant in other 2 wheeled segments, and based on how many ATV's that are sold in this country every year I hope they take note to that and start pushing the envelope a little more. Slap a Hayabusa motor in a Vinson and watch the Sport 4x4 market stand up and take notice LOL. Hey I have two Suzuki quads in my garage right now, I know they are Kawi clones, But I like Suzuki and I realy like my Suzuki Dealer and the deals he makes me. He is also a Honda Dealer and in this particular case with all he improvements to the Honda this year I think these two machines will be in a tight race for best 700 class machine this year. I am thinking there is going to be a seperation in the Big Bore machines from 650-700 class then the 750 up class. Its just my guess on that, there really is not much point in watching the huge bore machines blow away the smaller ones IMO.
Posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
Being the owner of BOTH ATVs,except having a slight edge in comfort on the hard trails,the Rincon has nothing over the new KQ..I cant think of a single person who bought a Rincon first,than later,went out and bought the new KQ,that regrets their purchase of the KQ..And by adding 25cc,EFI,and front disk brakes aint going to be enough IMO for someone to want to go back to the Rincon..The KQ just does everything much better with alot less effort than the Rincon.
Bill
Posted by: RedGoblin
Power: KingQuad
Handling: Rincon
Reliability: Rincon
Posted by: RedGoblin
Quote
Originally posted by: stocks
RedGoblin, I know you have a KQ and aren't trying to be too brand loyal but I think you should add more like maybe OTHER FEATURES. This post by cc1999 probably represents my 2 choices on my first atv. I appreciate you not trying to be too brand loyal but if the Rincon has a great ride.....people should know......if it has almost NO downhill braking......well, they should know that too.
If you look at cc1999's original post, I just answered his three categories. I do get accused of being brand loyal to Suzuki now by some so if I gave you my honest overall thoughts on these two machines, chances are I'll get my head bitten off just like last time even though I absolutely love Honda just as much or maybe even more than Suzuki.
Posted by: RedGoblin
Quote
Originally posted by: cc1999
It was my understanding that there were some changes in the trans gearing to improve the engine breaking. That maybe wrong, I was thinking I read that somewhere. I know Honda Motors have historicaly been pretty mild but the King never seemed all that peppy for a 700 to me. I was thinking the Honda might be a pretty close match with the king. I am thinking that if I were in the market for a 700 EFI machine I would have to look real close at the honda, I think the things that makes me favor the Honda is one the gear trans vs the belt, 2. The lower center of gravity for more stabilty and better handeling, and 3. the power of these 700's is not all that important since neither machine will be a class leader in the power department since there are 760's, 750's and 800 twins on the market we already know are faster and more powerful .
As far as the power, in my honest opinion I will have to say it's still going to be the KingQuad hands down. I do consider the King's powerplant to be pretty impressive for a 700 single, especially in the mid to top-end range of the power delivery. However, you do not so I won't argue with you on that. I do agree with you that Honda has never been known as a class leader in power for a LONG time. That said, the new Rincon is really only a 675. Combine these two points and I still think the Suzuki is going to take the new Honda in the ponies department. Just my 2 cents though and it's no more important that the next guy's.
Posted by: RedGoblin
Quote
Originally posted by: cc1999
Goblin I am with you in that the King is likely to be a little more powerfull. But my point was that the typical buyers looking at this catagory are not going for the fastest nor the most powerfull, if they were neither of these two would be there choice with so many other more powerfull and faster machines on the market. Its kind of similar to the way the 500cc class has come to be more feature driven to sway buys from one 500 model and brabd to another. You seldome here fokes chosing a 500cc machine over another because of power and speed. Ithink that is about were the 650 to 700 class machines have come to now. With 800's and 750-760's on the market with kawi working on 800's for 07'. That said that was why my reason #3 was that power was not of ultimate importance, and that if reliability, handeling and ride quality are better on the Honda then I can see the Honda will be taking a chunk of Suki's market share. The king is a great all around quad but this Honda Rincon Seems to be pretty close to the same except for some minor difference. To me those minor differences tilt my preffernce to the Honda.
When you talked about the engine and said you thought it would be more of a match for the King, I assumed you were referring to power so that's why I commented.
Posted by: RedGoblin
Quote
Originally posted by: cc1999
Suki and Honda have always seemed pretty happy with the Mid pack performance thing and there is nothing wrong with that. They both sell alot of machines to alot of happy customers.
Seriously not trying to start an arguement with you cc1999 as you and I both know we have our differences, but I just wanted to point out that as of late, Suzuki has been, in my opinion, the top dog for turning out performance-leading and inspiring machines. Enter the Z400. Enter the Vinson. Enter the KingQuad: 2005 ATV of the Year. Enter the Eiger. All are right at or near the top of anyone's list as class-leaders. The new LTR450 sounds like it will steal the spotlight from Yamaha in a big way. I would have to say I think Suzuki is very much in the performance hunt.
Posted by: RedGoblin
The Z400 was not designed to beat Raptors, DS650s, V-Forces, etc.
Posted by: RedGoblin
Quote
Originally posted by: cc1999
Maybe so, but it is there top sport model then and now, and is not head of its class as you were indicating. I do remember it being compared to the Raptor and the 400ex when it came out since those three were the top models from the big 3 mfg's. It may have been the top 400 cc sport, but there were only 2 the suki and the honda back then that were making 400cc sports I think thats still the case now.The AC and the Kawi's are just cloans of the Z400. It was not head of the sport class in power. Which was what I was talking about a few post back when I said the KQ was somewhat mid pack in the power department. Meaning again that it cannot run with the big twins of other mfg's in the performance department. If Suki wants to be head of the UTE power game they need to swich motors to at least a well tuned EFI 750+ twin or to be safe 800+ twin. I am thinking you are trying to tell me the KQ is not mid pack in the Power department, if its not what would you rather me call it. I know of at least 4 Big Bore machines on the market today that will outrun it. There are only about 9 big bores on the market that I can think of at the moment, and knowing from experince that it resides at about #5 in power I refeered to it as mid pack, I was doing my best to still be honset and try not to offend KQ owners with my thoughts on the matter.
I kind of see your point, but I think most could agree with me that a "class" is usually defined by displacement. Comparisons of the Z400 when it first came out to the Raptor were just for fun and you can't seriously consider them to be true competitors considering the engine difference. If the Z/KFX400 is not the leader in the 350-400 sport class, who is? While you are correct about the King's power, ponies are CERTAINLY not the only thing that make an ATV good. Example: Brute Force. It takes an overall package to make a great sport-utility these days and this is where the King delivers. It may not do one or two things the best, but it does absolutely everything great.
Posted by: RedGoblin
Quote
Originally posted by: cc1999
Thanks crblick, I knew it had some kind of traction system on it. I just did not know how the traxlock worked. Good info.
goblin, if you want to pin it down to a class why throw in the 350's the warrior is an entry level sport quad that was almost an antic when the Z400 came out. Lets just use 400cc only as a class and the Z400 is the winner. I could argue that the Z400 has been racing in the field with the Yami 450 and Honda 450's on the track both of wich will out perform the Raptor 660 in everthing but backing up. So in the 400 class the Z400 beats the only other 400 out there the Honda 400ex a machine that came out in 1998, I would expect the Z400 to beat it since it hit the market 4 or 5 years later. If Suki had wanted to realy up the anty they would have used one of there race dirt bikes motors in stead of the trail / enduro 400, like they are working on now. My point is still that Honda and Suki tend to be more mid pack followers rather than rule bending inovators in the market. That is not ment as a slam on honda or Suki just an avid fan of all things atv oppsevation.
The 350 Raptor is a competitor, I would think. The Z400s that are racing mx are bored-out 450s. I'm talking stock machines.
Posted by: RedGoblin
Quote
Originally posted by: sweet650
Back to this trax-loc thing from honda, correct me if im wrong but I thought that it was a device that allows it to switch from 2 to 4 wheel drive via some magnetic mechanism. That was one of the things that sold a foreman 450 to my dad was the ability to switch back and forth but I could be wrong.
I think you are confusing that with a locking front differential, something Honda ATVs have never had. This is a drive mode that makes all 4 wheels turn no matter what. If the Rubicon is outfitted with the same differential as the Rincon, then I would beg to differ that they don't "3-wheel." I've had to deal with it firsthand.
Posted by: RedGoblin
Quote
Originally posted by: cc1999
I cant think of any magazine shootouts putting them together. The new Raptor 350 does have an improved suspesion but still is more in the 300ex's class not the 400ex or Z400 class.
I know DirtWheels put them together and considered the Raptor to be a formidable opponent, but I'm sure many will argue that DirtWheels is a crap publication so........
Posted by: RedGoblin
Trying to get a point across because you said Suzuki is behind in class-leading products.
Posted by: crblick
Quote
Originally posted by: Toyeboy
It just susprised me earlier when you said that the KQ didn't seem peppy for a 700, compare it to the Sportsman 700 EFI twin and the Grizzly 660, the KQ has more speed and power than them, so I don't know why you thought it wasn't peppy, maybe the low end lag gave you a bad impression of it, because after 0-5mph it's power pulls hard and it's powerband stays strong. Also someone on a different forum told me he had a BF 750 and his friend had a KQ, he said the BF 750 felt faster but when they drag race they were even, and they switched quad and the results were the same, so that says a lot about the KQ's 695cc single IMO. Does the new Rincon have diff lock? Does it have a better tranny setup (a low gear)? What about disk brakes instead of drums? If my sources are correct it doesn't have any of this, and everything else in this class has it including the KQ, so I don't think it is better, plus it's only 675cc.
The Rincon has a torque sensing diff. Most manufacturers have a speed sensing or limmited slip diff. A torque sensing diff will transfer power to the spinning wheel in optimum conditions. Ususally it's just as good as a locker under normal conditions. People confuse this as 3WD all the time. Honda does not use the same type of diff as is used on other quads. People assume that Honda's 4wd acts like a Yamaha or Suzuki. It does not in the least. Yamaha and Suzuki use an open diff(when not locked), Honda uses a torque sensing diff. Suzuki and Yamaha diffs are 3wd, they will go along untill contact will hold them still while the other wheel spins. Honda's diff will recognise the bias in traction and shift torque to the wheel that needs it. I'm sure people don't understand this and I'm open to questions. My only goal here is to set people straight on the Honda "3-WD". This is the practical explaination of "Trax-Loc". Any technology before this is not supported by my claim.
Posted by: sweet650
Back to this trax-loc thing from honda, correct me if im wrong but I thought that it was a device that allows it to switch from 2 to 4 wheel drive via some magnetic mechanism. That was one of the things that sold a foreman 450 to my dad was the ability to switch back and forth but I could be wrong.
Posted by: hondaaboy
Quote
Originally posted by: crblick
Quote
Originally posted by: Toyeboy
It just susprised me earlier when you said that the KQ didn't seem peppy for a 700, compare it to the Sportsman 700 EFI twin and the Grizzly 660, the KQ has more speed and power than them, so I don't know why you thought it wasn't peppy, maybe the low end lag gave you a bad impression of it, because after 0-5mph it's power pulls hard and it's powerband stays strong. Also someone on a different forum told me he had a BF 750 and his friend had a KQ, he said the BF 750 felt faster but when they drag race they were even, and they switched quad and the results were the same, so that says a lot about the KQ's 695cc single IMO. Does the new Rincon have diff lock? Does it have a better tranny setup (a low gear)? What about disk brakes instead of drums? If my sources are correct it doesn't have any of this, and everything else in this class has it including the KQ, so I don't think it is better, plus it's only 675cc.
The Rincon has a torque sensing diff. Most manufacturers have a speed sensing or limmited slip diff. A torque sensing diff will transfer power to the spinning wheel in optimum conditions. Ususally it's just as good as a locker under normal conditions. People confuse this as 3WD all the time. Honda does not use the same type of diff as is used on other quads. People assume that Honda's 4wd acts like a Yamaha or Suzuki. It does not in the least. Yamaha and Suzuki use an open diff(when not locked), Honda uses a torque sensing diff. Suzuki and Yamaha diffs are 3wd, they will go along untill contact will hold them still while the other wheel spins. Honda's diff will recognise the bias in traction and shift torque to the wheel that needs it. I'm sure people don't understand this and I'm open to questions. My only goal here is to set people straight on the Honda "3-WD". This is the practical explaination of "Trax-Loc". Any technology before this is not supported by my claim.
I have a 2004 honda rincon with about 1600 miles on it and the torque sensing front differential works when we got it new but it hasnt worked for the last 600 miles because i always notice when one tires up in the air thats the only one that spins when the one with more traction is supposed to spin
Posted by: downeaster
t appears with a lot of the mfgrs upping their motors to 700, 750, and 800 to me
I would think that was enough. An individual at the atv pull here in Maine to me that
Yamma was coming out with and 880, and was disappointed when it never showed
up this year. If this keeps up the atvs will use as much gas as my pickup.
Posted by: Toyeboy
Quote
Originally posted by: cc1999
It was my understanding that there were some changes in the trans gearing to improve the engine breaking. That maybe wrong, I was thinking I read that somewhere. I know Honda Motors have historicaly been pretty mild but the King never seemed all that peppy for a 700 to me. I was thinking the Honda might be a pretty close match with the king. I am thinking that if I were in the market for a 700 EFI machine I would have to look real close at the honda, I think the things that makes me favor the Honda is one the gear trans vs the belt, 2. The lower center of gravity for more stabilty and better handeling, and 3. the power of these 700's is not all that important since neither machine will be a class leader in the power department since there are 760's, 750's and 800 twins on the market we already know are faster and more powerful .
I don't know why you act like the KQ doesn't have enough power because it does, even after 700miles I love it's power. It's got enough power to compete with the v-twins still, that's why people often compare it to, say a BF 750 and they usually pick the KQ. The KQ still appeals to me over everything else out there because it's a bargin compared to quads like the Polaris 800 and Bomb 800, it does everything they do, I don't see why people pay $2000 for 2-4 quad lengths. And when the ignition module comes out it will probably be even with the BF 750 in the power department. Saying power doesn't matter in the 700cc class is wrong IMO, power always matters.
Posted by: Toyeboy
It just susprised me earlier when you said that the KQ didn't seem peppy for a 700, compare it to the Sportsman 700 EFI twin and the Grizzly 660, the KQ has more speed and power than them, so I don't know why you thought it wasn't peppy, maybe the low end lag gave you a bad impression of it, because after 0-5mph it's power pulls hard and it's powerband stays strong. Also someone on a different forum told me he had a BF 750 and his friend had a KQ, he said the BF 750 felt faster but when they drag race they were even, and they switched quad and the results were the same, so that says a lot about the KQ's 695cc single IMO. Does the new Rincon have diff lock? Does it have a better tranny setup (a low gear)? What about disk brakes instead of drums? If my sources are correct it doesn't have any of this, and everything else in this class has it including the KQ, so I don't think it is better, plus it's only 675cc.
Posted by: Toyeboy
Some of them already do use more than my pickup.
Posted by: Toyeboy
They might not be the leader of quads right now but they've been the leader in sport bikes for years so to say they aren't leaders is wrong and to say they don't make great products isn't true (ex: Hayabusa, KQ). I think eventually they will be the leader in quads as well, they recommited themselves a few years to start producing quads more like they do their industry leading sport bikes; the KQ is probably the first of many great quads they plan on building , their KQ isn't very far from the others curently availible IMO at all, they are ahead of honda and yamaha right now in the big bore quad (powerwise) and ahead of the Kawasaki's feature-wise(EFI). Also they got 6 industry awards for the KQ in it's first year, that says a lot to me, shows you that most people think the KQ is a great machine, and that the most power doesn't always mean somethings better.
Posted by: stocks
RedGoblin, I know you have a KQ and aren't trying to be too brand loyal but I think you should add more like maybe OTHER FEATURES. This post by cc1999 probably represents my 2 choices on my first atv. I appreciate you not trying to be too brand loyal but if the Rincon has a great ride.....people should know......if it has almost NO downhill braking......well, they should know that too.
Posted by: stocks
cc1999, I can't wait to test ride a new '06 Rincon but wouldn't you be a little nervous of a first yr model, especially with first time EFI. I kniow it isn't a first year model but with significant changes to the engine (no carb and the addition of the efi) plus the engine braking sounds unsolved. I am not dismissing the Rincon but just asking you if these 2 items make you a little leary. The KQ is going into it's 2nd yr and I have read about very few complaints.
Just asking if it is a concern of yours.....I am still considering both.
Posted by: stocks
cc1999, thanks for the response. I have an existing response going in another section with a few belt ?'s on the KQ in general like how bad are they in terms of getting them wet, when do they need to be replaced (how long do they last), and how much would a dealer charge to install a new one.
that black KQ does look good. I have a black F150 so it would match well but due to the scratches showing, black fading, being the hottest in the sun, and knowing that it is the HARDEST color to keep clean (although when clean, it looks the best) I am going to get olive.
