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Posted by: Rubidude
Most of the '05 Hondas have been re-styled to have the Rincon look. The '05 Rubicon looks to be even better than ever with several new features that riders have been begging for. Front disc brakes, Trax-Loc, and a bigger fuel tank to name a few. They're not due in the showrooms until December, but a few usually leak out early to the bigger dealerships. Like you, litegide, I can't wait. They're going to be great.
Posted by: Rubidude
Yeah, but it has one thing that nobody else can even come close to offering...that transmission. That thing is sweet, and well worth a few dollars more...IMO.
Posted by: Specta
"why would anyone buy that 500 when they could get a new King Quad 700 for the same MSRP, a Brute Force for a little more, or a more powerful Sportsman for less"
Maybe some people don't want a Suzuki, Kawi, or a Polaris. Maybe they don't like belts. Maybe they ____________?
I have no interest in the biggest of fastest. I have no interest in Polaris. I have no interest in a belt drive transmission. When we bought our ATVs price was not a consideration but the ATV was. I will pay more for what I want or feel is a better product or fits our needs better. If I bought what was cheaper I would be driving a Dodge, oh heaven forbid.
Not everyone wants the same thing.
Posted by: Specta
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot, I know Dodge builds good trucks. Like ATVs, all the new ones are in fact great, you just pick the options that are important to you ot the seat that fits your butt.
Whats most important is that our trucks get our quads to the trails.
We would love an 05 Rubicon. The two things I like most is the bigger gas tank (1/2 gallon bigger) and the brake lights. Switching from 2-wd to 4-wd is not important to me, and our drum brakes have done well for us. I do think the new disc brakes would be better, I do like the stopping power of the Rincon.
Our Rubicon only has 5000 miles on it and we are going to wait until we have 10,000 miles on it before we get another ATV.
Enjoy your 05.
Posted by: Specta
A hydrostatic transmission also costs more to manufacture than a rubber band style transmission, and so does an automotive style 3 speed automatic trans.
There are a lot of choices out there, thank heaven, and Honda.
Posted by: Specta
"You have to separate the OHV and motorcycles from Honda's car manufacturing they are different division and operate under different corporate rules."
Honda pulls resources from where ever they see the need. Design engineers from the Acura NSX helped design the plastic and aluminum wheels for the Rincon. They also had engineers from another department design a new aluminum alloy for the pushrods in the Rincon that is as strong as steel and light in weight to help stay in their 600 lb weight.
Honda has more and will pull from any of their resources whenever they see the need. Do you think their ATV engineers designed the Rubicon, Rancher AT, or the Rincon transmission?
I believe Honda only does what they feel they need to stay #1 (in sales).
Posted by: Specta
Why does everyone think Specta has an R in it?
You've convinced me, your right, I selling my Hondas today. What was I thinking?
LMFAO
I have two Hondas, combined they have 6500 miles on them an over 700 hours running time. So far I have spent a total of $5.95 for one upper control arm bushing on our 01 Rubicon at around 4500 miles the Rancher has been 100% trouble free. Our Rubicon has carried over 400 lbs everywhere since it was new.
In my opinion, this makes them the best ATV's on the market, bar none. I ride with a variety of different brands of ATV's and not one of them, regardless of mileage has a dependability record like our Hondas do, except other Hondas. To me, that makes our Hondas superior to all other ATVs that we ride with.
Good luck and enjoy your ride.
Posted by: Specta
SPECTA, thanks Curls.
You definately make good and valid points. We didn't "blindly follow everyone else" when we purchased our ATV, and I don't believe you did either.
We originally had decided to buy a new Polaris SP500 HO, a yellow one. After shopping several dealers, and pretty well having made our mind up, we went to one more dealer because they had the "best deal". The gentleman at the dealer told us being our first ATV we should ride a few different ones. He pointed out the good and bad of each. We never rode the Rubicon because we didn't like the full-time 4-wd, boxy looks, and I thought the ESP was a gimmick.
We rode a SP 400, 500 HO, Grizz 600, and a 450 Kodiak (2nd choice). The saleman said we should ride the Rubicon before we signed on the dotted line. He showed us how the trans worked and we were off. I took off and shifted it up and down through the gears (ESP), turned around and came back. My wife took off on it (D1) and returned. We looked at each other and smiled at the salesman and said, "we'll take one", a red one.
I love the transmission, it was the single biggest decission maker for me. I love the trans, stability (low center of gravity), ergonomics, and now the dependability.
I could care less that it doesn't shift in and out of 4-wd and the"boxy" appearance keeps the mud off of us in the fall and spring time.
Today, if we were to buy a new ATV, even with all the big bores, IRS, fuel injection and everything else, we would buy a new (05) Rubicon over everything else.
Honda has 50 times the technology at hand as all the other ATV manufactures combined, just ask Asimo (the only robot in the world that can walk up and down stairs, built by Honda). Why Honda chooses to take the path they do I don't know. I think everyone knows Honda is more than than capable of building an ATV that would be more capable and whoop everything on the market, but they don't.
But for us, our needs, and desires, Honda is #1, regardless of what everyone else rides.
Posted by: Specta
There is a lot I would have given up to buy any other ATV.
Posted by: Specta
Like a top heavy, overheating, axle breaking, belt slipping ATV. hahahahahahahaha
Posted by: Specta
Type 660cc, 4-Stroke Single, Liquid Cooled w/ Fan, 5-Valve SOHC [ohh, SOHC? /Grin POWAH BABY!! What, does Honda have that or the old style pushrods? oh yup hehhe Honda has OHV yup pushrods
Bore x Stroke 100 x 84mm
Compression Ratio 9.1:1
Carburetion Mikuni 42mm BSR
Ignition DC – CDI
Starting System Electric w/ Auxiliary pull
Transmission Yamaha Minimatic® Rubberband with all-wheel engine braking / Hi,Lo,Neut.,Rev.,Park low range baby!
Drive Train Yamaha No-Command® push button 3-way locking differential, 2WD, 4WD, locked 4WD; Shaft Diff-Lock is a MUST HAVE for me and needed to follow a Honda
Chassis Suspension/Front Independent Double Wishbone, 7.1” w/ 5-way Preload Adjustment more is better
Suspension/Rear Independent Double Wishbone, 9.5” w/ 5-way Preload Adjustment
Brakes/Front Dual Hydraulic Discs
Brakes/Rear Hydraulic Disc, Four Piston, Shaft Mounted
Tires/Front AT25 x 8-12 w/ Aluminum Wheels
Tires/Rear AT25 x 10-12 w/ Aluminum Wheels
Dimensions L x W x H 82.1” x 45.3” x 47.6”
Seat Height 34.6”
Wheelbase 50.2”
Turning Radius 126”
Ground Clearance 11.8” no smurfs here!
Fuel Capacity 5.3 Gallons nice for these big bores, they eat gas
Dry Weight 600 Lbs.
Rack Capacity 99 Lbs.Fr. / 187 Lbs.Rr.
Towing Capacity 1,212 Lbs.
Other Instrumentation Digital LCD Multi-function display. Speedo, Odometer, Dual Trip, Hour, Clock, Fuel, & Gear Position
Lighting Dual 30W Krypton Multi-reflector Headlights & 21/5W Brake light sounds cool but really it needs more light for my tastes
Dc Outlet Standard
Colors Hunter Green; Red; Steel Blue; Hunter Editions (Realtree Hardwoods® High Definition Camouflage & Advantage Wetlands™ Camouflage); MetallicBlack (Special Edition) No need for Pink here
Warranty 6 Month (Limited Factory Warranty) And no factory support after warranty period; vapor locking, axles, 01 Raptor trans
Mask, so friends don't recognize its you riding a Yamaha
Ya, I think they sold one of those out here once, but that is just a rumor because no one has seen it. We ride in a very large group of ATVs, one Grizz. They do have some nice features, but our friend bought his because of the cheap price too.
Posted by: Specta
I too am not interested in purchasing a Rincon, and its not the price, and yes, $7000 is alot of money, for any ATV. I wouldn't buy a Rincon even if they were only $6000, not what I want.
Those two ATVs were built for two different styles of riding. The grizz is definately more aggressive, the Rincon leans more on the sport side.
jmo
Posted by: Specta
cut and paste
Posted by: redneckrider
curly i have to disagree with you when you say hondas resources are being stretched and they are trying to compete. actually honda could kill the other manufacturers if they wanted to but they are still selling more quads than other manuf. with their "out dated tech". look at their car and bike motors.
the reason their mrsp is so high is so they can have more mark down and actually still have competitive prices at the dealers
Posted by: PINKMOON
Honda has finally added some of the features that people have been asking for. I will take a hard look at buying an 05 ...but not until this time next year when the dealers have dropped the price of them down a little.
Posted by: grizzkiller
wow, you must like to type huh?
Posted by: 03250bayou
litegide are you talking about the 500cc foreman?...the one with the semi-auto transmission?
Posted by: CaptainQuint
I have always been a Honda fan but I really wish they would get their stuff together.
It seems like they have really fallen behind in the higher end of the market. They simply don't make an ATV for my particular application. Every other manufacturer does. Kawi has the new BF, Yami has the Griz, AC and Polaris have their big bore models. Honda still doesn't even have a locking front axle the last I knew.
Posted by: honda450es4x4
People buy hondas because of the name they are reliable.
Not that the others arnt
Posted by: hondarider86
How can everyone whine about the price? If aynone has actually looked at the honda and seen/understood the build quality you would know why it cost what it does....but eeryone is concerned about biggest baddest chest pounding yada yada.....but when your polaris fuel injection fails in the middle of nowhere an doyu cant fix it or the belt slips or when the grizzly rolls over because it is to top heavy and so on then youll stop complaining. now i know the honda doesnt have all the features in the world but what it does have works.
Posted by: hondarider86
Everyone complains that there is no lock on a honda....go and buy the detroit or the warn locker and that problem will be solved.
Posted by: oldturtle
Quote
Originally posted by: FormulaLT1
With an MSRP set at $7199, why would anyone buy that 500 when they could get a new King Quad 700 for the same MSRP, a Brute Force for a little more, or a more powerful Sportsman for less?
Not everyone believes in the need for all the features such as independent rear suspension, full lockup front 4WD, electronic fuel injection, or even a 700/750 cc engine. These same customers are convinced that Honda reliability is more important than features they may never need. The Honda brochures always state "The Honda ATV's include everything you need and NOTHING you do not".
I am going to buy a new 4WD quad next spring to be used for the ATV jamborees being held around the country. It might get used now and then for light ranch work and hunting but main use is easy trail riding. At this time, my favorites are the Foreman 4x4 manual, the Rubicon, or the Yamaha Kodiak 450. Most of these Jamboree routes can be handled on a 2WD sport quad so I fail to see the desireability of something like a KQ700 for me.
Posted by: oldturtle
Quote
Originally posted by: Curls
Rossi rode for Honda last year and won the title there and did it again on a Yamaha. Biggest difference is that Yamaha can get new technology into the market quicker than Honda.
Biggest difference is that Rossi is the best rider in the world and he was able to win on inferior Yamaha equipment. It would not surprise me to see Rossi win on a mo-ped.
Regarding claim that Honda is not innovative, do you remember the 1973 Honda 125 Elsinore. And how about the 1969 CB750. Then there was the whole V-4 sport bike thing that held on for years. The 1975 Goldwing 1000 superbike that became the touring standard. After the Britts dropped the ball, Honda picked it up and ran with the whole 4-stroke off road movement with 350 twins, 250 and 350 singles. Yamaha held the lead for awhile with the TT500 until Honda came back with the whole XR line. Yamaha caught averyone off guard with the YZF 400 and regained the lead for a few years until Honda retook the lead with a superior 450. History always repeats itself and it will do so again.
Honda is the most succesfull manufacturer of motorcycles and ATV's. They will not rush any new product to market until they are absolutely convinced it will meet Honda's reliability standards. This was situation with XR650R, CR450R, CR250R, and new CRX's. They will not compromise reliability standards for any tempory gain in market position.
Honda is not making ATV's for the narrow group of individuals who must have the most powerfull or the most innovative or the highest tech. They make ATV's for customers who expect their Honda to start up and run trouble free for many, many years.
Posted by: oldturtle
Quote
Originally posted by: Curls
<STRONG>oldturtle</STRONG>
Please name one product that Honda can call the "Best in Class" other than a CRF450 MX bike. I can't think of one.
Well that depends on who is defining "Best in Class". I do not go along with the moto rag ratings because they are dominated by riders who want the newest high tech BS and who often trade in every year. For the rest of the "Real World" riders who actually have to buy and keep their stuff for several years or more there are several models that Honda does call "Best in Class" and I agree with them. If Honda and the majority of riders did not agree then Honda could not maintain it's number 1 position.
GL1800ABS I own one and it is so far ahead of the BMW K1200 there is no comparison.
ST1300ABS The Yami FJR may be cheaper and a better sport bike but this is sport touring.
VFR800FIABS Only bike in this class and like above two bikes has dominated forever.
VTX1800 Not best seller because there are too many buyers who like the Harley life style.
VTX1300 Ditto above.
Rune Only real factory custom.
CBR600F4i Best 600 for the 95% of 600 riders who never see a track.
CBR600RR Best 600 for the rest.
CBR1000RR Best litre class. Suzuki wins lots of races because of Maladin and a good bike.
RC51 Only other great twin sport bikes are Italian and with questionable reliability.
VTR1000F5 I own a Honda Varadero, the Euro Adventure tourer with this engine detuned.
CB900F5 Best naked
XR650R So KTM's are better. Not in desert or dual sport, and certainly not with maintenance & reliability.
CRF450X Taking deposits for March 05 delivery
CRF250X Sold out all across country.
CRF230F Best entry trail bike with elect start
CRF100F The old XR100 will be number 1 forever.
CRF50F Best selling dirt bike by far and now base for backyard moto. No competition
CRF450R Even you admit to this.
CRF250F How could you miss this one.
CR250R Difference here is all rider ability and money spent on set-up.
CR125R Ditto above.
CR85R Ditto above
TRX650FA Rincon
TRX400EX The Suzuki and others are good but we are talking best not fastest.
TRX450R We don't need no stinking ES. These are race quads.
TRX300EX
TRX250EX
TRX90
Rubicon
Foreman
Ranchers
Recon
I could go on with generators, PWC, cars, SUVs, lawn mowers, jet planes, etc. But what's the point? Honda does not make any 2-stroke off road bikes and I don't want a converted CR motocrosser. That's why I own a KTM250EXC and why my grandson rides a KAWI KDX220. Honda does not make any high performance 2-stroke dune quads. That's why I own a Banshee.
Posted by: oldturtle
Quote
Originally posted by: Curls
<STRONG> I will predict Honda will be the last of the major quad manufactures to offer EFI.
If Honda is the last to offer EFI on a quad then it will be for a good reason. EFI just like IRS may not always the best solution. When you consider cost, reliability, and performance; sometimes the old tried and true is better. I have seen here over and over again how bad the stability can be on many quads with IRS (tippy, top heavy Grizzlys). Are the four small rear axle U-joints going to be as reliable as the solid axle? And what kind of problems are you going to have with new EFI systems. For sure they wont be as simple to tune as changing or cleaning jets on a carb.
I predict the 05 Honda Foreman 4X4 Manual Shift model will spend less time in the dealer's shop than the 05 Suzuki King Quad.
Posted by: Curls
IMHO when you buy Honda products you pay for some really good out dated technology. Like other post have stated everyone is looking for something a little different in their ATV's. Honda, which is the worlds largest manufacture of small engines, is trying to compete with more specialized companies. This situation forces engineering resources to become stretched so a redesign becomes costly to new product development. When Honda tackles a new product they design it so that it does not have to be completely redesigned next year. Most Honda products lack in the umph department and this while not important to all people will exclude some from purchasing their products. Honda by using this philosophy will always tend to fall behind the power curve of their competitors until the first year of a new model, which will then remain old school till the next jump in technology. Just look at the drum brakes and the 650CC engine on Honda's signature big bore quad the Rincon. All of the other atv companies have kept moving up the displacement and features of their big bores. At the next redesign in a few years Honda will undoubtedly adopt new technology into their replacement model and be on par with the other manufactures once again.
Hondas are great just not the best!
Posted by: Curls
redneckrider
You have to separate the OHV and motorcycles from Honda's car manufacturing they are different division and operate under different corporate rules.
Lets look at Honda's Street bikes. In motoGP racing Honda runs a V5 engine which is very powerful and not available to the general public. Look at Yamaha who won the series this year with their rider Rossi. Most components in that bike are slight modification of what you can buy at you local dealer. Rossi rode for Honda last year and won the title there and did it again on a Yamaha. Biggest difference is that Yamaha can get new technology into the market quicker than Honda.
Lets move to Motorcross: Now Honda makes a really good CRF450, but Yamaha and KTM both had high revving 4 strokes 4 years before Honda released theirs. Honda has just relased the CRF450X Yamaha has had the WR line for 5 Years.
Sport Quads: Just this year Honda released the TRX 450 once again two years behind Yamaha. Up till this point The fastest sport quad Honda produced was the anemic 400EX (I own one). The 400EX uses a motor developed for the XR400 dirt bike. Late 80's technology put in a new package. The 400 EX has been unchanged until adding reverse to it in 05. It didn't get a higher revving motor, larger displacement or high compression pistons it got new headlights and a reverse.
Utility Quads: Rubicon gets new plastic and 1/2 gallon more gas. Still all time limited slip with drum brakes. Yamaha sticks IRS under the midsized quads with water cooling.
The Bikes I am talking about here are the "signature" bikes. This is what all manufactures use for testosterone marketing. The products are developed to showcase the latest technology the industry has. Honda has a hard time being innovative with anything other than a transmission. Even the hyped automotive style transmission has began to be downplayed in Honda marketing circles because of the utility limitations. Only 3 gears on a "utility" quad with no low range makes little sense to me. We now see Honda marketing this quad as a Sport Utility quad (new classification) to compete with other more capable machines. If you want a real sport ute buy a P700 no one can compete for going fast with the Kawasaki.
I have owned so many Honda products and they are good. I wish Honda could once again lead and not follow. I can understand entry level and low cost units using dated technology, but there is no excuse for Honda not to do a house cleaning and update the OHV line. We as consumers keep buying their products in sufficient numbers this manufacturing philosophy does not need to change. Now if we voted with our collective wallets into other manufactures Honda would be forced to be more progressive in it's approach to servicing the consumer.
A similar story unfolded at Harley Davidson in the 70's and 80's. HD bikes were really poorly built and the company was on the verge of nonexistence. This was turned around and HD once again makes a great bike with old technology. Only the V-Rod is a little more modern and Porsche designed that engine. The difference here is that people purchase HD bikes to belong to a "club". Japanese bikes beat HD bikes in every conceivable category except image.
People who buy Hondas will soon be face with a similar dilemma. Do I buy perceived Honda reliability or do I buy newer technology at a lower cost.
Posted by: Curls
oldturtle
You are correct Honda was once a leader and still is in some racing products, but we are not talking 60's, 70's or 80's the time when Honda led is way past. My point with Rossi is that you will never see that V5 engine while you can buy something close to the Yamaha Rossi won on. In AMA racing Mike Maladin mopped the floor with a Suzuki again just like last year and the year before. Honda lost RC and will be lucky to see a podium finish in either SX or MX this year. I will predict Honda will be the last of the major quad manufactures to offer EFI. I am really surprised they even have a quad with IRS. With all of their engineering resources where is their leading and innovative products? I own three hondas right now I am just disappointed that when I buy a Honda product I feel like I am "settling" and giving something up for that warm fuzzy feeling of reliability. I think all manufactures could have that same level of "Honda reliability" If their products took 5 years to hit the consumer market.
There is nothing superior about the TRX450, Yamaha is only a 437CC quad and still produces more power faster and has an electric starter.
Please name one product that Honda can call the "Best in Class" other than a CRF450 MX bike. I can't think of one.
The new crop Gold Wing bikes have under gone a recall because of a mysterious overheating problem. The current line of Honda Sport Motorcycles are lagging behind Suzuki, Kawasaki and Yamaha. The 2004 Suzuki even skipped a year of updates and was down on HP to the CBR1000, but turns quicker lap times.
By the way the XR6560R is a piece of crap from the factory which requires a lot of work to make it a capable off road bike, I have a 2002 model. I could have bought a KTM with all the crap I have had to do to the Honda. It's now a very good bike, but it didn't start that way.
Spectra:
Honda is only number one in sales because they are number one in marketing dollars spent. Not because they have superior products. If engineering resources are so freely available to work with other divisions answer the question I asked Oldturtle, name one product that is a best in class outside the CRF450. You would think they might be able to cob together a decent racing program somewhere, but because of their arrogance they can't even keep their best riders. Honda is trying to sign Jeremy McGrath to do a publicity tour and race a limited number of races just to showcase a CRF450, that's just sad. Last year in the Baja 1000 there is footage of the two honda riders cheating I can go on, but why.
Honda doesn't even try to compete in the Dakar. While I was watching a two wheel hydrostatic drive Yamaha motorcycle race in the Dakar I was wondering where the Honda's were. Seems like a race based on total endurance would be right up the perceived reliability leaders ally, but once again nothing.
HONDA EXECUTIVES Listen:
Build a rubicon with 4 Disc brakes, a locking diff and IRS. It's not that hard to do, I'll throw my money down first.
It will happen in a few years when all the other manufactures have moved on to hover craft or something using a zero point energy source.
My point in all of this is Honda like Harley Davidson does not have to compete on a performance bases. They have all of us tossing money down on dated technology because we have been lead to belive it's reliable so we feel good buying it not because its a feature rich product.
IMHO I believe if you pay top dollar you should get top performance or something near it. We all sit around making excuses for Honda it just enables them to stay behind the power curve.
Posted by: Curls
SPECTA,
I like Hondas as much as the next guy, but I would like to see the company step up to the plate and resume it's leadership role in the market. I am not bashing anyone who purchases a Honda. Like I said I have three, I only wish Honda could get a tighter grip on putting new technology into their already good products to make them superior products. I am sorry for having an opinion I'll just stick my head in the sand and blindly follow everyone else.
Posted by: Curls
hondarider86
The point is that if your paying top dollar for something why would anyone pay more for a feature that has to be added later on. All of this just to to make it comparable to a lower cost product. It's like going to Burger King and buying a Whopper, but because they don't offer any meat to go on their "quality" buns, taking your newly purchased Whopper across the street to Jack in the Box and having meat added. When you could have gone to McDonalds and gotten the whole thing cheaper.
Posted by: Curls
Specta,
I am not sure what kind of bank you pull down up there in Salt Lake, but 7000 grand in my book is not cheap. It is however in line with the technology offered in a Grizzly. unfortunately I am not sure the same is true of the Rincon.
Posted by: jimmypsp700
Whats the differance its vertually unchanged from last year, actually since its introduction.
Posted by: FormulaLT1
Rubicons are ok, and the 05s are the best rubicon yet, but they're WAY over priced IMO. With an MSRP set at $7199, why would anyone buy that 500 when they could get a new King Quad 700 for the same MSRP, a Brute Force for a little more, or a more powerful Sportsman for less? Doesn't make sense to me. And although the new rubicon has more features, it still lacks what other manufacureres offerings have, such as 4x4 lock and IRS.
Posted by: FormulaLT1
Quote
Originally posted by: Rubidude
Yeah, but it has one thing that nobody else can even come close to offering...that transmission. That thing is sweet, and well worth a few dollars more...IMO.
ya, well i disagree. i do think it's the best continuously variable tranny on the market, but i don't think it's worth THAT much more, especially when the belt tranny's are soo good anymore. polaris even has a lifetime warranty on their belts.
Posted by: FormulaLT1
Quote
Originally posted by: oldturtle
Quote
Originally posted by: FormulaLT1
With an MSRP set at $7199, why would anyone buy that 500 when they could get a new King Quad 700 for the same MSRP, a Brute Force for a little more, or a more powerful Sportsman for less?
Not everyone believes in the need for all the features such as independent rear suspension, full lockup front 4WD, electronic fuel injection, or even a 700/750 cc engine. These same customers are convinced that Honda reliability is more important than features they may never need. The Honda brochures always state "The Honda ATV's include everything you need and NOTHING you do not".
I am going to buy a new 4WD quad next spring to be used for the ATV jamborees being held around the country. It might get used now and then for light ranch work and hunting but main use is easy trail riding. At this time, my favorites are the Foreman 4x4 manual, the Rubicon, or the Yamaha Kodiak 450. Most of these Jamboree routes can be handled on a 2WD sport quad so I fail to see the desireability of something like a KQ700 for me.
ok, but for a person who does not need all those features, they could get a machine that fits them well and pay a lot less than the honda. bottom line to me is this: the rubicon is a nice machine that is WAY WAY WAY overpriced!! it's not even close. look at the prices of competing machines. Polaris Sportsman 500 msrp of 6699 and Suzuki vinson 500 msrp of 6399, just to name a couple. i just stated that most people when looking at two machines of the same price, most would choose the bigger one with more features.
Posted by: WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
Just spoke to my dealer yesterday. I can have my '05 Love Rubicon the second week un December or, if I want the GPS model, it should be in the third week in December. He told me that some are being released in November but that he is not scheduled to get any until December. The dealers he called in the hopes of doing a swap to hook me up sooner produced negative results! Good thing I bought my buddy's Kodiak to get me through the Pennsylvania deer season!
Posted by: WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
Specta, You were doing real good until you got to the Dodge comment. BR>
I am a Honda man! Everything we have around here that says "HONDA" is still running including my daughter's car that had the snot beat out of it by its previous owner and is still providing great service with about 130,000 miles on it - none of them easy as best we can tell.
We now have two quads in the garage. A Rancher ES and a Kodiak I picked up while waiting for the '05 Rubicon to come in. The fit, finish and overall quality differences between the Honda and the Yamaha are readily apparent when viewed side by side. With all of that said I think we think alike - except for Dodge!
I am on my fifth Didge pick-up, a quad cab Cummins Turbo HO 4X4. I owuldn't trade it for anything else. We also have a small block 4X4 shortbed, also with a manual trans but with crank windows, vinyl floors and the like. It a hunting truck and will be my son's next year. Dodge trucks used to be poor quality and cheap. Now, they are great trucks!
Posted by: WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
Quote
Originally posted by: Curls
redneckrider
Utility Quads: Rubicon gets new plastic and 1/2 gallon more gas. Still all time limited slip with drum brakes. Yamaha sticks IRS under the midsized quads with water cooling.
The Bikes I am talking about here are the "signature" bikes. This is what all manufactures use for testosterone marketing. The products are developed to showcase the latest technology the industry has.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Curls,
Respectfully, I believe that the 2005 Rubicon now has a disconnect for the four (3.5) wheel drive and has switched over to disc brakes, at least in the front. The Rubicon also has, and has had liquid cooling.
Moreover, while other manufacturers resort to what you quite accurately refer to as "testosterone marketing" I believe that Honda has a great bit of confidence in their products and their reputation (perhaps even to a fault) and does not resort to the biggest, baddest, fastest, toughest "testosterone centered" marketing.
With all of that said, I am not just blindly defending Honda as I do wish they would be more progressive with regards to new designs, but Honda does make stuff the runs, works and does so for a good long time with minimal whining and runny-nose visits to the dealership.
Are they perfect? Of course not. Is there room for improvement with new ideas? Of course. But for my intended uses and my style of riding and work, I'm going Honda. I have an '03 Kodiak, (great machine), that is rich on features but does not match up to the Honda in fit, finish and quality when closely viewed side by side. I would buy and/or recommend a new Kodiak in a minute but the '05 Rubicon has my eye and I have soundly based reasons for brand loyalty, despite the fact that Honda could, admittedly, do more.
Besides, if we all went after tall thin, blue eyed blondes or green eyed red heads what would life be like?
Posted by: litegide
Has anybody actually seen one of These machines yet?
I know honda-new is saying "November" I 've been waiting and trying not to spend the slush fund I've got stashed for the 2005 Rubicon, not sure how much longer I can wait?
BR>Phil
Posted by: litegide
Good dialogue guys!
Allot of knowledge here!
It's Nov 15th, any 2005 Rubicon sightings?
Phil
Posted by: Dirtydude
I looked at Honda's but I needed Diff-Lock. I ride in the woods and I get off camber alot, even with IRS
No IRS and No Diff-Lock is why I didn't buy a Honda. Honda's are great quads if don't need power or a decent 4x4 system. I think it would make an excellent quad for my wife.
You give up alot to ride a Honda ATV.
Posted by: Dirtydude
Quote
There is a lot I would have given up to buy any other ATV.
Ya, less cash hahaha
Posted by: Dirtydude
nm, I was having fun Honda bashing BR>
but I do like Hondas.. I have ridden many Honda's and their ATV's do have a niche in the ATV world. I think of a Honda as a great
atv for tooling around on. Not for extreme riders but a nice quad for the wife's for sure.
and I strictly talking Utilities from Honda.
Posted by: Dirtydude
Engine Type 649cc liquid-cooled OHV semi-dry-sump longitudinally mounted single-cylinder four-stroke - nice size engine
Bore and Stroke 100.0mm x 82.6mm
Carburetion 37mm CV - for the price you pay this should be fuel injected
Ignition CD with electronic advance
Starter Electric with auxiliary recoil
DRIVE TRAIN
Transmission Automatic with hydraulic torque converter, three forward gears, reverse, and electronic controls mumbo jumbo crap, give me a belt
Driveline Direct front and rear driveshafts with torque-sensing front differential -- NO LOW RANGE? NO DIFF LOCK? WTF?
CHASSIS / SUSPENSION / BRAKES
Front Suspension Independent double-wishbone; 6.9-inch travel -- less than 7 inches of travel??? WTF?? No wonder it's not "top heavy" it's like riding a red rider wagon!
Rear Suspension Independent double-wishbone; 8.0-inch travel -- 8 inches?? Red Rider (tm) wagon here for sure!
Front Brakes Triple-sealed hydraulic drum -- DRUM!! DRUMM!!! WTF on an 8 THOUSAND DOLLAR MACHINE I would expect disks!
Rear Brake Single hydraulic disc
Front Tires 25 x 8-12 radial
Rear Tires 25 x 10-12 radial
DIMENSIONS
Length 83.7 inches
Width 46.1 inches
Height 47.5 inches
Wheelbase 50.8 inches
Seat Height 34.5 inches -- ya no suspension is why, this thing is made for smurfs!
Ground Clearance 10.0 inches -- speaking of smurfs!
Turning Radius 10.8 feet
Dry Weight 600.0 pounds -- not bad for a 650 class machine, same as the Grizz
Fuel Capacity 4.5 gallons, including 1.0-gallon reserve -- needs more fuel, specially for a 650 class machine
Available Colors Black, Olive, Red -- no camo! wtf wtf, oh NM this isn't a good Hunting machine. They should make Pink a color for thing.
Model ID TRX650FGA
FACTORY WARRANTY INFORMATION
6 months Coverage of defects in materials and workmanship -- If Honda's are soooo reliable why not a 6 year warranty?
****Drumroll**** all for a low low Base MSRP $7,899 *gasp* Low?
ok so what did you give up to get a different machine again? maybe this:
Type 660cc, 4-Stroke Single, Liquid Cooled w/ Fan, 5-Valve SOHC [ohh, SOHC? /Grin POWAH BABY!! What, does Honda have that or the old style pushrods? oh yup hehhe Honda has OHV yup pushrods
Bore x Stroke 100 x 84mm
Compression Ratio 9.1:1
Carburetion Mikuni 42mm BSR
Ignition DC – CDI
Starting System Electric w/ Auxiliary pull
Transmission Yamaha Ultramatic® V-Belt with all-wheel engine braking / Hi,Lo,Neut.,Rev.,Park low range baby!
Drive Train Yamaha On-Command® push button 3-way locking differential, 2WD, 4WD, locked 4WD; Shaft Diff-Lock is a MUST HAVE for me
Chassis Suspension/Front Independent Double Wishbone, 7.1” w/ 5-way Preload Adjustment more is better
Suspension/Rear Independent Double Wishbone, 9.5” w/ 5-way Preload Adjustment
Brakes/Front Dual Hydraulic Discs
Brakes/Rear Hydraulic Disc, Four Piston, Shaft Mounted
Tires/Front AT25 x 8-12 w/ Aluminum Wheels
Tires/Rear AT25 x 10-12 w/ Aluminum Wheels
Dimensions L x W x H 82.1” x 45.3” x 47.6”
Seat Height 34.6”
Wheelbase 50.2”
Turning Radius 126”
Ground Clearance 11.8” no smurfs here!
Fuel Capacity 5.3 Gallons nice for these big bores, they eat gas
Dry Weight 600 Lbs.
Rack Capacity 99 Lbs.Fr. / 187 Lbs.Rr.
Towing Capacity 1,212 Lbs.
Other Instrumentation Digital LCD Multi-function display. Speedo, Odometer, Dual Trip, Hour, Clock, Fuel, & Gear Position
Lighting Dual 30W Krypton Multi-reflector Headlights & 21/5W Brake light sounds cool but really it needs more light for my tastes
Dc Outlet Standard
Colors Hunter Green; Red; Steel Blue; Hunter Editions (Realtree Hardwoods® High Definition Camouflage & Advantage Wetlands™ Camouflage); MetallicBlack (Special Edition) No need for Pink here
Warranty 6 Month (Limited Factory Warranty)
so now *****Drum Roll ***** you get all of this for $7,199 !! woot!! more for less!
