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Posted by: EasterEgg
Everything said about weights, power, how it gets to the ground etc... are things to consider but my real world experience didn't follow the rules.
I had a 98 Scram 500 and pulled against a Grizz 600 this was in 99 when these were the big 4-strokes. Both were stock and had stock tires. Our first pull was in grass and neither one moved we just dug holes. So we moved to the dirt road and my Scram pulled the Grizz backward (won). It was just for fun and bragging rights but to this day I don't know why. The Grizz had more cc's, more weight (but the rider was lighter) and lower gearing. The only advantage I had was true 4wd vs 3wd. It could have been rider error but I don't think so since I slowly inched him along and didn't yank him quickly. Who knows just my 2 cents
Posted by: thud
Tow ratings have more to do with how much the quad can safety handle ( ie stop) while towing. Sure more ATV's can probably pull 5000lbs ... but getting that 5000lbs stopped or turned is an entirely different story, thats where the tow ratings come into play. Ive pulled an empty 500Bu grain wagon around the yard with my AC 500man, has no problems getting it rolling but when I try to stop or turn the wagon just shoves the quad around as if its not even there... theres ALOT of momentum behind a 5000lb grain wagon. In your case I would be looking for the heaviest quad out there, something of comparable HP rating..( +/- 5hp) but definately heavier. As you point out traction will win the day in a pulling contest and traction comes from tires and weight... simple as that.
Posted by: SHOTGUN
I'm putting on a pull on OCT 10. at the Lakeview rest. in ST Agahta, Me, if anyone wants to take the title away from my 850cc.
Posted by: SHOTGUN
No sorry, I don't own them, some guys were asking about them and I took that pic and put it on my page to show them.
All those pics are old, the bike I pull with now is blue.
Posted by: CraneMan
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Originally posted by: Owlman
How about a Grizz with two 50 lb feed bags on it and Me? img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0"> Anybody want to challage me. I want the right to add more feed bags though. hr>
Yes, Owlman. If you're willing to come this far I'll hook up with you, as long as our TOTAL weights are within 25-50 lbs I've got to compete in 2 local pulls this summer & love it! My first time pulling, I didn't even think about bringing along anything for extra weight but still managed to take second place about 3-4 ft short of a piped, jetted, cdi'ed & clutched Prarie with added weights. My second chance at organized pulling was just a week & a half ago. My quad with me onboard scaled at 1,003 lbs. and the weight limit for the big bore class was 1,150 lbs., but a fellow competitor in another class was nice enough to let me use his two 70 lb. tractor weights. I won my class, but there was only 3 other big bores entered - all 3 were Grizz's The only other machine I've ever hooked back-to-back with was the Bombardier model with the bed in place of the rear rack - that was on dirt and ended in a draw - neither moved forward, both dug straight down If pulls were the only form of events I participated in, I'd have the semi-auto 5-speed Bomb instead of my SP700 - don't know yet, but I suspect their 500 will outpull most other brand big bores.
Posted by: CraneMan
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Originally posted by: SaskKawiGuy
I am going to enter a local atv pull next week and I will post my results.
SKG, good luck to you in the upcoming event. I hope you have fun & do well. I kind of think hooking to a sled at an organized event is safer for both the machine and rider than hitching 2 quads back to back. Since organized pulls do allow added weight, they come down more to the effective balance of power and traction. I've been hoping more owners of different machines would offer their experiences to answer Dragomnni's original question - btw - I Never pull anything by my bumpers Zorro, I've not noticed anybody using a chain on their rear suspension, but maybe before I hook to a weight sled again I'll try cranking the preload a notch or two off the softest setting
Posted by: dragomni
Which machine would pull a Grizzly around? This is a serious question that may affect what I buy.
I'm thinking the SP600s and up may be able to pull it being as it is far heavier than the Grizz, it should spin its tires while the heavier machine pulls it away.
How about the BF750?
Or the KQ700?
The Polaris has the highest towing rating, is this just based on its weight advantage/being heavier duty construction?
Posted by: PINKMOON
Hi if towing is the biggest factor then I think the bombardier traxter might be the best bet. It is geared for the job ..produces a lot of power ..and has the weight. If you are looking for a wheeler with a more well rounded appeal that will tow with the best of them then the larger cc polaris wheelers would serve you well
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: dragomni
Which machine would pull a Grizzly around? This is a serious question that may affect what I buy.
I'm thinking the SP600s and up may be able to pull it being as it is far heavier than the Grizz, it should spin its tires while the heavier machine pulls it away.
How about the BF750?
Or the KQ700?
The Polaris has the highest towing rating, is this just based on its weight advantage/being heavier duty construction?
My Sportsman 600 can drag my buddy's Grizzly 660 around on any surface. He might be a gnat's ass faster in a drag, but he knows better than to hook up to me. (I've dragged him about 7-8 times already, on concrete, asphault, grass, mud, snow, wet grass, gravel, etc., and all of the results are the same. The Polaris won!
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: batmanacw
I would rather have my light and agile AND TOP HEAVY griz than a tank that wins because its way heavier. I am sure that if you loaded the griz to the same weight it would not be so easy.
FIXED
Posted by: Bradracer18
Get an 05 polaris sp800efi.....there ain't nothing going to pull that around, not even your truck.....lol.....we are getting one, with the report to follow........
Posted by: Bradracer18
I have seen some pretty hopped up "sport" quads do some pretty mean pulling too......so they might could out pull some of these ute quads....otherwise, the sportsmans are about a dead giveaway....
Posted by: Bradracer18
I'll hook up to you.................
With our JD8400............
Posted by: Doctorturbo
Like Pinkmoon said, a traxter would pull anything around that I know of. I'm not sure of the new, new big bores that are very heavy, they may have a chance? With me on it board, my traxter almost weighs 1,000lbs!!! This, along with gear to gear is a big advantage if you want to tow something.
Posted by: zorro700
I knew you'd be in trouble as soon as you said the polaris is better than the brute force at anything. Where do you ride at anyway I live up above Titusville.
Posted by: zorro700
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Originally posted by: SaskKawiGuy
Your right, weight does help with pulling but you need power to generate wheel speed other wise the bike cannot generate enough momentum.
The sportsman has plenty of power to spin the tires at will. Even if it didn't you would have to understand that a quad with 10,000 hp that weighs 450 lbs will not out pull a quad with 1 hp that weighs 600 lbs (kinetic friction vs. static friction). In simple terms you can't get around "It takes weight to pull weight". Period.
Posted by: zorro700
Your right a SRA does not sag under a load. Most pulls have a set height at which the sled is hooked up at. With IRS when you start to pull the rear end sags lowering your hitch height, and I'm sure your aware of that the high you can keep your hitch height the more weight you can pull. If you notice some of the more experienced pullers with IRS will put a chain between their rear suspension to not allow it to sag.
Posted by: zorro700
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Originally posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: zorro700
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Originally posted by: SaskKawiGuy
Your right, weight does help with pulling but you need power to generate wheel speed other wise the bike cannot generate enough momentum.
The sportsman has plenty of power to spin the tires at will. Even if it didn't you would have to understand that a quad with 10,000 hp that weighs 450 lbs will not out pull a quad with 1 hp that weighs 600 lbs (kinetic friction vs. static friction). In simple terms you can't get around "It takes weight to pull weight". Period.
Yes, this may be true, but if you look at the relative motion on the same surface and apply the keplers equation of motion, your data mention above is wrong. The 10,000 hp would out pull the 1 hp.
NO, I'm not wrong, I'm right! It does not matter how much hp you have if you can't make traction YOU CAN"T PULL!
Posted by: zorro700
Yamaha can make power can't they?
Posted by: zorro700
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Originally posted by: batmanacw
I would rather have my light and agile griz than a tank that wins because its way heavier. I am sure that if you loaded the griz to the same weight it would not be so easy.
I would rather you have the Griz than me too.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: thud
Tow ratings have more to do with how much the quad can safety handle ( ie stop) while towing. Sure more ATV's can probably pull 5000lbs ... but getting that 5000lbs stopped or turned is an entirely different story, thats where the tow ratings come into play. Ive pulled an empty 500Bu grain wagon around the yard with my AC 500man, has no problems getting it rolling but when I try to stop or turn the wagon just shoves the quad around as if its not even there... theres ALOT of momentum behind a 5000lb grain wagon. In your case I would be looking for the heaviest quad out there, something of comparable HP rating..( +/- 5hp) but definately heavier. As you point out traction will win the day in a pulling contest and traction comes from tires and weight... simple as that.
Hey thud, I think you said it best. I have pulled some heavy trailers with hay using my 700 kawa prairie and I have not had any problem. But when I need to stop quickly, that is a different story. If HP and torque are the most important features, get the BF750. But to get great traction, one needs to consider the weight of the quad. I would venture to say that even though a kawa 750 BF has more HP and torque, a sp800 might slightly win if pulling against each other, but only due to the extra weight of the polaris. Add extra weight to the 750 BF and it would probably be a different story. But, bottom line is the tow ratings are based on a factor that is close to 2.1 of the actual quad weight. My kawa 700 prairie is rated for about 1250 lbs. The quad weight is 604. 604 x 2.1 = 1266lbs. This is driven by the US cycle safety councle. If a mfg wanted to rate the quad higher, they could, but the safety councle would not back them in court. Very good response THUG.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: FormulaLT1
any atv with more weight and the same amount of wheels driving will pull it around. my 98 sp500 would pull it around, it's all about physics. the power is only as good as what you can get to the ground.
I totally agree with you. But, I do think that even if a griz has the same weight as a polaris 600 or 700, that the polaris would probably win because the weakest link is the belts, and based on what I have seen with my kawa and another griz that I have rode with, the polaris belts seem to be better.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: Alucard
As far as towing, I gotta admit that my 2000 Polaris Sprotsman 500 does a better job of pulling a 6'6'' X 10' trailer than my 2005 Brute Force does. For a few hairy seconds, I was afraid the Brute was going to cough up a rod, but it DID manage to lug the trailer down the driveway and back. But the Polaris spanks it with its higher towing capacity.
That is funny.......the towing capacities are rated by the weight of the machine from the atv safety councle. It doesn't mean the machine can't pull more that what it is rated. I doubt that your 500 can out pull a BF 750vtwin. I have rode a BF and a 500 HO and there is no comparison on the power.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: FormulaLT1
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Originally posted by: SaskKawiGuy
I am not dumping on Polaris, I actually like the Sportsman 500HO but I bought the Kawi because of the 36 month warrenty. The only reason I think their is something wrong with the BF is only due to the difference of 250CC's.
The larger bore should out pull based on engine size. Since both are IRS and their stock tires are somewhat close in performance one would think the BF should pull the same as the Polaris 500 at the very least.
The only thing I don't like about Polaris is having to grease all the time. Too many fittings having said that my Kawi has different issues such as belt wear.
you're wrong. the polars weighs alot more therefore it will pull alot more, it may work the motor more, but it'll pull more.
The weight issue will not be a bid issue when you have the power of the BF. Yes, weight helps, but if you have the power, there is a break-over point when the power will help. Put both on pavement and see what happens.
Posted by: 700vtwinman
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Originally posted by: zorro700
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Originally posted by: SaskKawiGuy
Your right, weight does help with pulling but you need power to generate wheel speed other wise the bike cannot generate enough momentum.
The sportsman has plenty of power to spin the tires at will. Even if it didn't you would have to understand that a quad with 10,000 hp that weighs 450 lbs will not out pull a quad with 1 hp that weighs 600 lbs (kinetic friction vs. static friction). In simple terms you can't get around "It takes weight to pull weight". Period.
Yes, this may be true, but if you look at the relative motion on the same surface and apply the keplers equation of motion, your data mention above is wrong. The 10,000 hp would out pull the 1 hp.
Posted by: 4wheelerfred
my king out pulled my friend scotties grizz i made him so mad . i had the weight and supper low gearing to help me .
Posted by: 4wheelerfred
that correct
Posted by: 4wheelerfred
ah i can jast hook any quad up to the back of my farmall 560. haha that would be fuuuuunny.
ten quads could not even budge it. 1st gear,tork amplifier on,gas half up,yall better be reddy for a woopin. bad a$$ motherf*ck*r c0ck s*cker power, wooyeah that took some efort.
Posted by: batmanacw
I have pulled my friends truck out of the ditch, so I don't know what will pull my griz around. I weigh about 300 pds. and the low gear on my griz is pretty amasing. I would think that it will come down to tires and rider skill. 4 wheel diff lock is pretty awsome. Good luck beating a griz with anything. If the other rider drops his tire pressure and stiffens his suspension in the back like I did, it won't squat , it will just dig deep and pull really hard. I don't know what other machines are like in low gear but the griz accelerates like a raptor in low, but tops out around 43 mph.
Posted by: batmanacw
43 mph is the fastest I have ever taken my griz in low. It may go faster, but why?
Posted by: batmanacw
I would rather have my light and agile griz than a tank that wins because its way heavier. I am sure that if you loaded the griz to the same weight it would not be so easy.
Posted by: SaskKawiGuy
There must be something wrong with your BF because my P700 pulls my 5'5x12 trailer loaded with 2000 lbs of dirt with no problems at all.
As for batmans grizz toping out at 43 mph my 700 tops out at 52mph in low even with 27" tires and stock springs.
Posted by: SaskKawiGuy
I am not dumping on Polaris, I actually like the Sportsman 500HO but I bought the Kawi because of the 36 month warrenty. The only reason I think their is something wrong with the BF is only due to the difference of 250CC's.
The larger bore should out pull based on engine size. Since both are IRS and their stock tires are somewhat close in performance one would think the BF should pull the same as the Polaris 500 at the very least.
The only thing I don't like about Polaris is having to grease all the time. Too many fittings having said that my Kawi has different issues such as belt wear.
Posted by: SaskKawiGuy
Your right, weight does help with pulling but you need power to generate wheel speed other wise the bike cannot generate enough momentum.
Posted by: SaskKawiGuy
I am going to enter a local atv pull next week and I will post my results. For argument sake I hope there will be a polaris but each machine will weigh the same therefore the results will don't pertain to this topic.
I would like to see for myself A SP500 go head to head with a SRA 650cc+ bike which has a locking diff and simular tires because all of the pulls I have seen 75% of the winners seem to be SRA bikes.
Again don't get me wrong I almost bought a SP500 HO so I am not brand loyal and my stance would not change if I owned a Vinson etc.
Posted by: SaskKawiGuy
It does not hurt your quad if your WOT either in low or high. The bikes max RPM is the same when comparing low vs. high. Kawi's CVT system works best in low gear, in my case I have to use low due to the larger tires which will help maintain optimum belt life. Not all bikes use the above noted set up, therefore I have noticed Yamaha & Suzuki machines seem to have different operational requirements.
One's preference for high vs low range varies so my opinion works for me and is not meant to be the "authority" just my 2 cents.
As for BioHaz, where did you find the 7 mph max for low? I would shred my belt in a day if I changed to high after 7 mph.
Posted by: SaskKawiGuy
Shotgun, do you own the tracks displayed in your pics? I was thinking of buying 2 sets in-lou of buying two snow sleds.
As for the pull, I live 3000 miles from maine so my wife would cut me off for a year if made this trip just for a pull. Not to mention your bike is a monster, its like me racing my 300C against a Tauras.
Posted by: FormulaLT1
any atv with more weight and the same amount of wheels driving will pull it around. my 98 sp500 would pull it around, it's all about physics. the power is only as good as what you can get to the ground.
Posted by: FormulaLT1
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Originally posted by: EasterEgg
Everything said about weights, power, how it gets to the ground etc... are things to consider but my real world experience didn't follow the rules.
I had a 98 Scram 500 and pulled against a Grizz 600 this was in 99 when these were the big 4-strokes. Both were stock and had stock tires. Our first pull was in grass and neither one moved we just dug holes. So we moved to the dirt road and my Scram pulled the Grizz backward (won). It was just for fun and bragging rights but to this day I don't know why. The Grizz had more cc's, more weight (but the rider was lighter) and lower gearing. The only advantage I had was true 4wd vs 3wd. It could have been rider error but I don't think so since I slowly inched him along and didn't yank him quickly. Who knows just my 2 centshr>
not knowing what the final weight was, i'd say that 3 vs. 4 wheel drive made the difference.
Posted by: FormulaLT1
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Originally posted by: SaskKawiGuy
I am not dumping on Polaris, I actually like the Sportsman 500HO but I bought the Kawi because of the 36 month warrenty. The only reason I think their is something wrong with the BF is only due to the difference of 250CC's.
The larger bore should out pull based on engine size. Since both are IRS and their stock tires are somewhat close in performance one would think the BF should pull the same as the Polaris 500 at the very least.
The only thing I don't like about Polaris is having to grease all the time. Too many fittings having said that my Kawi has different issues such as belt wear.
you're wrong. the polars weighs alot more therefore it will pull alot more, it may work the motor more, but it'll pull more.
Posted by: FormulaLT1
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Originally posted by: SaskKawiGuy
Your right, weight does help with pulling but you need power to generate wheel speed other wise the bike cannot generate enough momentum.
both machines will just spin before they give up on power. the polaris can get more power to the ground cause it's heavier. hard to generate momentum when you're just sittin their spinning.
Posted by: Owlman
How about a Grizz with two 50 lb feed bags on it and Me? img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif" border="0">img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif" border="0"> Anybody want to challage me. I want the right to add more feed bags though.
Posted by: biohaZ
your crazy... well according to the books 7mph is the maximum speed you should probaly go in low
Posted by: 4x4zealot
speed isnt everything in towing.....the sportsman are some of the best towing machines.. IRS or not. i can imagine the bombardiers are great too, otherwise the sportsman will outpull everything thnx to weight. especially when you throw my dad on it..... poor sportsman.....
Posted by: 4x4zealot
weve hooked up sportsmans vs other machines before.... ive seen sp400's pull p700's like nothing..due to a heavier rider and ATV. The sportsman in low range has more than enough power to turn wheels. and zorro has the correct idea.... look at an old WW1 tank... things had a whoppin 15hp.... but they still could pull anything. Weight is the key in pulling... along w/ traction which weight gains you....any machine out there in low range will spin tire no matter what
Posted by: 4x4zealot
bein the jacka** i am, how the hell do u get 1000hp to weigh 450 lbs...lol and 1 hp to get 600.... yammy vs polaris lol
Posted by: 4x4zealot
yes they can. they may not be able to put it to the ground as well as a polaris, but IMHO thats all cuz of weight. although ill the sp700 some credit, handled pretty good considerin it was 720lbs. still prefer my scrammy, but that aint winnin no tug of wars around here thnx to the fact everyone runs sportsmans, w/ the exception of one foreman. i still refuse to get a sportsman due to my aggressive ridin style, but theyre great for what they were made for. anyone here seen an ac650 vs sp700?....always wanted to see how the cat faired
Posted by: Alucard
As far as towing, I gotta admit that my 2000 Polaris Sprotsman 500 does a better job of pulling a 6'6'' X 10' trailer than my 2005 Brute Force does. For a few hairy seconds, I was afraid the Brute was going to cough up a rod, but it DID manage to lug the trailer down the driveway and back. But the Polaris spanks it with its higher towing capacity.
As far as the Scrambler vs Grizzly towing contest, I would also argue that the more aggressive stance of the rear wheels on the scrambler would seem to give oodles more traction than the Griz. Just a thought.
Makes me want to widen the rear axles on my Brute IRS and lower the thing a few inches...
Then again, maybe not.
Posted by: Dirtydude
If you want to win a pull competition then get the biggest nastiest tires you can get on your machine, like the Agriculture tires. When you install the farmer tires fill them with calcium. This is what farm tractors use to get massive weight which = more traction. Get them aired down so the sidewalls flex some (not too much or the tread will collapse) Now that you have huge traction now you need to find the optimum hookup point, if you hook up too high the front will come off the ground too easily and you'll have to back off the throttle to not go over backwards. Even on 4x4's the main traction is on the rear of the quad, that said chain driven quads will probably have an advantage over an IRS quad because of the way the torque comes off the top of the sprocket. With the pulling power coming off the top of the sprocket this pull the axle upwards thus squats the quad creating more power transfer. It also depends on how your opponent hooks his quad, if they hook up high on the quad and you hook low then he could steal your power transfer and lift the rear of your quad while increasing his own power transfer and then increasing his total pulling capabilities. I would suggest a long tow rope to lessen this factor or a short one if your wanting to use this tatic yourself.
Another thing that would make quad pulls not equal would be when the 2 pullers applied power, if one quad applied the power a bit faster he could get the power transfer down faster and start the other quad moving which would decrease it's own pulling power (get it spinning slightly) but if he dug a hole then you'd have a harder time pulling him and it would be a stalemate. If you pulled on a hard surface such as pavement then that would change things drastically, now you would want different tires such as slicks and you would want to heat them prior to the pull
It would be very difficult to set up a fair quad vs quad pull by hooking up the bumpers to each other as there is too many factors to consider,
Posted by: Gopher500
lol...i managed to outpull a sportsman 400 once on my kodiak..he had stock tire on grass...thank you 589's.
as of now, i dont even bother hookin up my scrammy.
but then again, they cant run me over if they cant catch me...
but if they do catch me im screwed, no questions asked.
