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Posted by: KEGRACING
Been riding bikes for a long time, and had a scrambler 400 for about 5 years. Like the Polaris, but not sure about the Polaris 4WD system for a lot of rock climbing and log jammed mountain trails. I am looking at a new utility quad, and like the Sportsman 500 HO, but would like to hear from some of you about the way the 4WD engages.
I have not had the scrambler in this type of situation, so have no good experience to lean on. I know the rear tires have to slip 20% faster than front to engage the Polaris 4WD. Will this cause a problem when trying to go slow over a technical rock area, or over logs, when loaded with hunting gear? How much do you really have to turn the rear tires to get the front to pull you up on something? Should I go with another brand with a locker in front for this type duty.
Give me your experiences.
Thanks in advance.
Ken
Posted by: Farmr123
BryceGTX, you explained the engagement of the Polaris system better, with fewer words, than I would ever hope to. As a long-time Polaris owner, and wrench-turner, I can attest that it takes nothing near the 1/5 of a turn to engage the front wheels. In fact, I had my Xplorer on a lift not too long ago, and was fiddling with the 4wd system, and it goes from unlocked to locked in less than the distance between the lugs on the rear tire (489 XT tires). I think the confusion is in the 20% slip. Yes, 20% is equal to 1/5, but there is a big difference between 20% of a rotation, and a 20% DIFFERENCE in rotation.
It has been my experience that if you are in 2wd, and get stuck, then flip to 4wd, the rear wheels must spin about 4 inches before the initial hub engagement. However, if you flip it to 4wd a little ways BEFORE you get to the mudhole, and just idle into it until you stop, then hit the gas, the front wheels will grab at just the slightest hint of movement from the rear wheels, I would say maybe an inch or so.
Also, 20% is NOT a lot of slippage. We have a farm tractor with a true-speed radar on it. It also measures the speed of the rear wheels, and gives a readout of wheel slip percentage. According to the tractor owner's manual, the tractor is working at maximum efficency at 12-15% wheel slip. With that in mind, 20% is only 5% more than 'optimum'.
Posted by: Farmr123
Well, we can argue this one to death, it looks like. In Rhino's defense, I checked out his site, and he is one of the few that pretty much just tells it like he sees it. Follow his link, and see for yourself.
Once this debate started, I checked out a couple machines I know of, and found that mine, and the other 2 all have a slightly different 'distance' the rears must travel before the fronts engage. My Xplorer takes very little motion once it has been activated (the way I tested it was raise all 4 wheels off the ground on a lift, start the engine, engage 4wd, and see how much the rears turn before the fronts grab. I held the front wheel with a finger so I could 'feel' when it grabbed.)
My Xplorer took maybe 6-7 inches for the fronts to initially grab. After that, I left in in 4wd, and poked the throttle so the wheels turned a little. After that, as long as I left the 4wd switch on, it took about 2-3 inches of travel on the rear wheels, not much at all.
A 2000 non-HO Sportsman was about the same, and a 2000 Magnum 500 took 6-7 inches every time. This makes me think there is a certain variance involved, probably has something to do with manufacturing tolerances, wear, or perhaps maintanence of hub oil. I know mine & the Sportsman are well cared for. I have over 10,000 miles, and the Sportsman had under 2000. Can't remember the Magnum, should have written it down.
Posted by: outlawd
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I love my Sportsman(s). The AWD is great, the braking is great, the suspension is great, the handling is great, the ..... Need I say more?
Ditto. Several of us ride the 500's on long exploration type trips and we love 'em.
Intrepid Explorers
Posted by: Specta
Just my 2 cents worth.
I ride with a lot of Polaris's, and have ridden a few too. I think their 4-wd is hard to beat. I have never been able to feel when it engages, and when it does you have 4-wd. The newer ones stear very nicely. I think Polaris has made some very big leaps forward in their dependability and in the lowering of their maint. (do the new sp500 have gas gauges yet?)
With all the Polaris's I ride with, the two things I have noticed that I don't care for is; I have seen way too many times when the 4-wd will not engage due to one problem or another. I have seen this with brand new ones, 8 miles on the odometer, and it is worse the older they get. The second thing I have have noticed is how bad they slide down steep hill with the back tires locked up. I don't care for that at all.
Back to the original question, from what I have seen they are great for climbing over fallen trees and climbing huge boulders. The Sportsmans are very agressive ATV's, whether you like them or not.
Posted by: Specta
As I posted earlier, I think for climbing Polaris has a great 4-wd. I can't even fathom that that tiny little amount of rotation could ever make a difference. All the Polaris's I have ridden I could never feel it.
Its not all the machine. We have been out places where one of the guys just couldn't climb over a huge rock obstacle on his SP700 and I made it over and through it on our 4x4 Rancher, I even got a rented 2-wd Rancher through. He tried twice, tipped over once, and went around. Does that make our Rancher a more aggressive 4-wd? I don't think so. Maybe the rider is a little more skilled. I have helped my friend on his SP500 up a canyon call The Rock Garden with our Rubicon, he didn't like that. Oh well.
Just because you have the ATV with the "ultimate" 4-wd, does not mean you will finish first. Regardless of what machine at any cost from any manufacturer.
Posted by: Specta
And the winner is??
Great entertainment.
IMHO, if you find yourself in a situation where that tiny little un-noticable wheel spin can put you in harms way, you either should have already been in 4-wd or you shouldn't be riding an ATV.
I look forward to reading this everyday.
My icon fits me too! LOL
Posted by: Specta
Does your Rhino fit in the bed of your pu?
Posted by: Specta
thats a tight fit for the ranger in the back of your truck, fits like a glove.
Posted by: Specta
those units look like a blast, they are a little wide for where we do most our riding though. i just think of how much more we could take with us. LOL
Posted by: RD02
dude what the hell did you do to your quad ?
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: KEGRACING
Been riding bikes for a long time, and had a scrambler 400 for about 5 years. Like the Polaris, but not sure about the Polaris 4WD system for a lot of rock climbing and log jammed mountain trails. I am looking at a new utility quad, and like the Sportsman 500 HO, but would like to hear from some of you about the way the 4WD engages.
I have not had the scrambler in this type of situation, so have no good experience to lean on. I know the rear tires have to slip 20% faster than front to engage the Polaris 4WD. Will this cause a problem when trying to go slow over a technical rock area, or over logs, when loaded with hunting gear? How much do you really have to turn the rear tires to get the front to pull you up on something? Should I go with another brand with a locker in front for this type duty.
Give me your experiences.
Thanks in advance.
Ken
It engages so quickly, you won't even notice. And once it engages, it'll stay engaged until there is no more sign of slippage. It's truly seamless and smooth. I love the way it works, flip the switch and GO!
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoad
when youre sitting off camber with no choice but turning uphill on steep rocks, that 1/5 rotation wheelspin can be more than enough to send you sliding.
You obviously don't understand how the system works, so your input carries no weight here. There is no 1/5 rotation wheelspin. Where did you get that from? The rear tires have to spin 20% faster than the front, and from watching mine do it on ice about 100 times, the rear tires might, MIGHT move 1/2 inch before the fronts kick in. It's hardly even enough to notice. And once it does it once without a change in conditions, they both start out exactly the same.
And as far as your comment about not being made for rock crawling is just plain stupid. My SP600 crawls over rocks and such AND goes through just about anything better than my buddies Grizzly 660 ANY day. Just for reference, we both got winches before we went to Hatfield/McCoy Trailfest last October. I've had to use mine more than his.......to pull HIM out. His Grizz has gotten stuck about 9 times to my 0, and I go through stuff he won't even try anymore. So if there is any machine made for it all, it's the Sportsman. Period.
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: Wookie
I just bet the system is very expensive to fix. I know that the efi engine is costing my buddy a fortune on top of the fact he has hardly had it to ride. The 4x4 system does engage and disengage smoothly and if it wasn't for all the driveline noise it makes you wouldn't even know it is doing it.
Rich.
That noise isn't from the driveline AWD engaging/disengaging, it's the heavier duty clutching/weights. The AWD doesn't make any noise.
Thunderbolt,
I don't have any problems riding down steeper inclines. You just have to do it differently on a Polaris (using brakes and gas), but it's no problem. Some would say that it is actually safer on a Polaris AWD. If you have all 4 wheels locked on, let's say, a Grizzly, and it is slippery, and the whole machine slides while trying to engine brake, it could get out of control. The Polaris riders know how to control our machines in a downhill situation. It is just something that you have to learn if you're not used to it.
Posted by: sp600towtruck
Quotes originally posted by: RhinoOffRoad
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heh....the irony is that it is you who is ignorant to how the system really works. read the link i quoted above so that you can speak from fact.
I read the link, and I already know how the system works. Thank you. (No mention of 20%, but we'll get to that later)
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not only are you ignorant to how the system works, you didnt pay attention in math class either. 20% is 1/5. from a dead stop, the rear wheel would have to spin 1/5 of a rotation before the front would kick in. sheesh, some of this stuff is elementary.
Oh you SO need to read a Polaris manual. I said it spins 20% FASTER. That is not 20% MORE. There is a difference. Do you really think that the rear tires make a 1/5 of a rotation before the fronts even engage? Maybe you didn't pay attention in reading comprehension class. Elementary? Exactly, some of this IS elemantary. 20% faster IS NOT 20% more.
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1/2" is not 1/5 rotation which is 20% difference. please dont make things up.
Please take a reading comprehension course. I'm not making this up, but you really do need to watch one in action. Maybe you'll understand the concept then.
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coming from someone who cant figure out that 20% = 1/5th i find that comment both humorous and ironic.
You're just digging yourself in a hole. You should find someone with a Sportsman and have them demonstrate on snow or ice the way it works. Some people just don't get it until they see it in action. My buddy with the Grizzly thought the same way until last winter. Now he understands. And his comment was, "you can't even tell, it's instantaneous." And I told him, "Exactly Doug, that's what I've been trying to tell you." Seeing really is believing.
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blah blah i know....its just the bestest and greatest thing ever made. its just a shame that some of you cant recognize the that no machine has everything. if it did, nobody else could sell a quad. when you present your argument as a 12 year old "my brother can beat up your brother" it ruins the positive aspects of your argument. i think the polaris is a great mudding system but it doesnt work in the rocks compared to a real 4 wheel drive system because the fronts dont pull continually. getting rear wheel slippage isnt easy when youre trying to creep. now i know your ego cant handle the mention of any limitation of the polaris system, but the mechanical aspects of the system speak for themselves.
Are you just upset because my buddy has a Grizzly, and I said my Sportsman can go more places than his? My comment was in no way meant as a put down to Grizzlies. I was just recalling some trips we went on where he would get stuck and I wouldn't, in the same spots. That's all. Whether it was machine or rider (he has been riding much longer than me BTW), a fact is a fact.
Posted by: sp600towtruck
I was the first to respond to KEGRACING with a positive comment on how I thought it works. It's other people that DON'T know that respond with negative comments. I just want KEGRACING to get CORRECT information. Not someones theory on why it wouldn't work when they don't even have a clue.
KEGRACING,
The Sportsman will do everything you need to do: Go on hardpack, mud, rocks, logs, snow, whatever. Take the info from people who actually have them. They truly are a great machine.
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: 20045SP500HO
I agree, arguing over the internet is like running the special Olympics, even if you win your still retarded.
I think that statement is "Racing a Honda is like running the special Olympics, even if you win your still retarded"
Honda cars for drag racing, that is.
But you're right. Arguing is stupid, but I just wanted KEGRACING to get correct info.
I'm done.
Posted by: sp600towtruck
Thanks zorro700 for the confirmation. People that don't ride Polaris's don't understand until they actually ride one.
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoad
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Originally posted by: sp600towtruck
People that don't ride Polaris's don't understand until they actually ride one.
and some who do own them never learn.
And some that have ridden a couple and think that they know everything, and are proven wrong, still never learn.
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoad
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Originally posted by: sp600towtruck
ridden a couple and think that they know everything, and are proven wrong
physics are physics and no matter how much your brand loyalty may blind you to simple physics it doesnt change a thing.
Exactly, physics IS physics. It's not totally brand loyalty, it's a matter of understanding how it actually works verses how "I think it should work like this so, there, that's what I believe, and I won't let anyone prove me wrong, even though I don't own a Polaris and don't understand the way it works."
Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoadQuote
please explain to me how a 25" diameter turning on the same axis will only travel .5" also.
Like I said before, get a Sportsman either off of the ground or on ice or in mud and try it out for yourself. That's the only way that non-Polaris people can seem to really understand it. Throw away the everything you've ever read or heard and start from seeing it with your own eyes. I ride mine almost everyday, in every terrain, so I know what it does. You, OBVIOUSLY, don't.
Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoadQuote
youre "the man" with the baddest machine and the mostest machismo amongst us. i bow to your greatness. hr>
Thanks, well at least you DO know something. BR>
Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoadQuote
interesting enough ive seen it published that to get full time 4x4 out of a sportsman you put 20% larger tires on the front so that the rear is always slipping 20% (1/5th turn, as ive stated) in comparison therefore keeping the front cam locked. but your "because i said so" probably means more. hr>
BS... Another non-Polaris person blowing it out of their a$$. Listen, you are obviously too confused about the 20% thing, so just ignore that part of the manual. This will make better sense to you.
"As soon as the rear tires start to slip ever so slightly, the front tires engage, almost instantaneously, as if it were a true locker."
That is actually a more correct statement and less people, like yourself, will get confused from that definition.
Posted by: sp600towtruck
img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border="0">img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif" border="0">BR>
Just toooo funny Zorro. Nice one.
(BREATHE!!) Hahahahhahahahahhaaha
Posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoad
in addition, in the polaris tech page in the middle of the page the warning reads: "it is imporant that the front and rear axle ratio and tire size are not changed. changing this ratio will cause irratic engagement....". the reason for this is the different gear ratio that allows the front hub to override the rollers when there is no rear wheel slippage. the hub system is working 100% of the time with the only difference being that the clutches are engaged when you turn on the AWD.
That tech page is for OLD style hubs on a polaris. That's not what they use on the twins for 02-present and 400-500 sportsmans on present models. The awd system is in the center differential. THAT system works like we all say. Maybe the old system was lax on it's engagement, but the not the newer center hub diff unit.
Posted by: zorro700
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Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoad
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Originally posted by: sp600towtruckDo you really think that the rear tires make a 1/5 of a rotation before the fronts even engage?
heh....please become informed before arguing this farther. perhaps you know more than polaris about the function of their own system.
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Are you just upset because my buddy has a Grizzly, and I said my Sportsman can go more places than his?
heh....you cant be serious. im not loyal to yamaha in any way. nor am i loyal to arctic cat, or any other manufacturer. i am loyal to performance and will buy any machine at any cost from any manufacturer if i determine that it meets my needs better than what im riding now. your "story" about you and your buddy means nothing. perhaps your buddy isnt a good rider. perhaps your buddy hit the holes down the middle while you straddled them or went around. perhaps your buddy left his parking brake on. perhaps you have a magical quad. there are to many variables to accept "me and my buddy" stories to establish the merit of any machine.
bottom line, im not bashing the polaris system because i think its great in many situations but as a dedicated rock crawler i have learned from my own experience that the polaris front drive system is not the best choice for crawling rocks. for the front to pull the back has to be slipping and i dont want my rear tires slipping at all when trying to creep up a slick wet 60 degree rock.
NO, the tires do not make a 1/5th rotation before the fronts lock in. Some people on here just don't know how to comprehend reading. sp600towtruck is RIGHT roadrhino is WRONG! Think about it... a 25 inch tire is over 75 inches around, 1/5 th rotation would be more than 13 inches of slippage to engage the front tires. THAT IS NOT THE CASE. Rhino quit talking your uneducated on this topic. The rear wheels on a sportsman move about 1/2 " before you are in TRUE 4WD. To the person that started this post go to a polaris dealer and see for yourself that the polaris works great. As far as brand loyalty, I'm a diehard yamaha fan (except the warrior, big yamaha embarassment, or the utilities, the grizz).
Posted by: zorro700
Absolutely NO common sense. Couldn't boil water in a iron pan if the directions were for a steel pan.
Posted by: zorro700
interesting enough ive seen it published that to get full time 4x4 out of a sportsman you put 20% larger tires on the front so that the rear is always slipping 20% (1/5th turn, as ive stated) in comparison therefore keeping the front cam locked. but your "because i said so" probably means more. hr>
Proven again to be an absolute idiot! I can't believe you have enough intelligence to remember to breathe.......Hey!!!!!!! Breathe, your turning blue! If you put 20% bigger tires on the sportsman and YOU say it will be in 4WD. Sportsman tires are 25" in diameter ( I knew better than to put just dia. for you Rhino) that means they travel 78.5" per rotation (thats when the wheel rolls all the way around Rhino).....Circumference = (2)(R) or diameter times 3.14. If you put 20% bigger tires on the front then that is 30" (25 X .20 (20%) + 25 (original tire size)). You still with me Rhino? OH MY GOD RHINO BREATHE! I almost forgot, you O.K.? Now back to the task at hand. When the 4WD kicks in the front tires are going to rotate and travel a distance of 94.2" (30 X 3.14 incase you forgot) while the back tires turn 78.5" like a 25" tire will. THAT WON'T WORK RHINO!
Now that that's straightened out for you Rhino, back to slippage. Are you still going to tell us that the rear wheels slip 15.7" (25 X 3.14 X .2) your just going to have to ask your mother to explain that formula to you, this is taking up my time.
You digging a hole. You tell people this crap about the 15.7" of slippage to get the sportsman into 4WD and then say you've actually rode one, EVERYBODY knows or lying. OR....you have no clue what your talking when you start talking math and physics. OR the popular theory of BOTH.
RHINO.......BREATHE! COME ON BREATHE! Wow that was a close one.
By the way your icon fits you perfect.
Posted by: zorro700
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Originally posted by: RhinoOffRoad
in addition, in the polaris tech page in the middle of the page the warning reads: "it is imporant that the front and rear axle ratio and tire size are not changed. changing this ratio will cause irratic engagement....". the reason for this is the different gear ratio that allows the front hub to override the rollers when there is no rear wheel slippage. the hub system is working 100% of the time with the only difference being that the clutches are engaged when you turn on the AWD.
Aren't you the one that said you read to put 20% bigger tires on the front to keep it in AWD. This was probably written by one of those know nothings that do test reviews on machines but have no clue what is going on except the color of the ride. You know the type. I think these people are getting a ranger to test pretty soon........What color is it BTW.
I wrote:
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Are you still going to tell us that the rear wheels slip 15.7"
You wrote:
the rear tires slip 18-20% before the front engages.
Hey Einstein, 20% IS 15.7" of slippage I tryed to explain it to you using math formulas that my 8th graders can even do but apparently 8th grade math is too advanced at this time. I'll try once more, 20% rotation means the rear tires rotate 1/5 around before the fronts engage (your theory) that means you have to take the circumference ( thats the distance AROUND the tire) (diameter X 3.14) diameter is 25 SO.......25 X 3.14 = 78.5. THEN take 20% of that and you have 15.7". So by correcting me and saying that you didn't say it has 15.7" of slippage you said it has 20%.....IT'S THE SAME THING. Now...do the rear tires slip 20% (15.7") like you say they do.......I mean since you've ridden soooooo many.
Why can't you answer OUR question?
Oh and if you SUCH an expert why are looking at a diagram of older models. I wouldn't try to explain how a powerstroke diesel works by looking at diagrams of the old 6.9L. But I can't blame you, you don't know any better.
Well I have to get back to my nintendo (that I don't have)
One last thing, I see your getting more supporters of your intelligence (Vaquero)
BR>BREEEEEAAAAATH! We wouldn't want to lose all your professional reviews.
Posted by: Wookie
I just bet the system is very expensive to fix. I know that the efi engine is costing my buddy a fortune on top of the fact he has hardly had it to ride. The 4x4 system does engage and disengage smoothly and if it wasn't for all the driveline noise it makes you wouldn't even know it is doing it.
Rich.
Posted by: Wookie
You guys can can argue all you want but I no exactly when my four wheel drive is on or off and when my front diff is locked or unlocked. And on my last ride out in Savoy state forest down the Florida trail I made it through every mud hole on the trail and my two buddies Polaris EFIs did nothing but give my winch a workout.
Rich.
Posted by: 20045SP500HO
Follow this post here.
Posted by: 20045SP500HO
I would just like say that the front wheels DO stay engaged until the rear wheels make a few (2 or 3) feet of forward nonslipping movement. The system engages quickly, but the weights take a few feet of non slipping rear wheels for the weights to fall in an disengaged state. I personally never found this to be a problem when rock riding, but we all learn how to ride each machines strengths and weakness to the best results.
Posted by: 20045SP500HO
I agree, arguing over the internet is like running the special Olympics, even if you win your still retarded.
Posted by: Thunderbolt
SP600towtruck, I bet your Polaris and the Yamaha have stock tires don't they ?? I like both machine, But I chose the Grizz, However the stock tires are worthless in the mud and the stock tires on the Sportsman are more agressive. Getting stuck or making it through the mud doesn't soley rest on what ATV you have it rests just as much or more on the person riding it in the mud. This is the same for trucks or anything, Two different drivers of the same vehicle may have opposite results just because of how they drive or ride. I'll bet that if you took several different ATV's with the same tires you would hardly notice a difference in the mud with the same rider. As far as riding down steeper inclines I would have to choose the Grizz for the all wheel engine braking instead of just rear wheels, But that is just a personal opinion.
Posted by: Thunderbolt
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Originally posted by: sp600towtruck
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Originally posted by: Wookie
I just bet the system is very expensive to fix. I know that the efi engine is costing my buddy a fortune on top of the fact he has hardly had it to ride. The 4x4 system does engage and disengage smoothly and if it wasn't for all the driveline noise it makes you wouldn't even know it is doing it.
Rich.
That noise isn't from the driveline AWD engaging/disengaging, it's the heavier duty clutching/weights. The AWD doesn't make any noise.
Thunderbolt,
I don't have any problems riding down steeper inclines. You just have to do it differently on a Polaris (using brakes and gas), but it's no problem. Some would say that it is actually safer on a Polaris AWD. If you have all 4 wheels locked on, let's say, a Grizzly, and it is slippery, and the whole machine slides while trying to engine brake, it could get out of control. The Polaris riders know how to control our machines in a downhill situation. It is just something that you have to learn if you're not used to it.
I can agree with you on the braking as I have never ridden a Polaris down an incline. I can see how having all wheel braking could cause a problem on ice, However I probably wouldn't go down a steep incline on ice. It would be nice to be able to control the engine braking front to rear or even on and off.
Did Sportsman and the Grizz both have stock tires in the mud ?? I would have no problem owning a Sportsman or the Grizz that I own. I used a friends 500HO Sportsman for hunting in 2001 when it was brand new and it was great.
Posted by: Thunderbolt
The guy that made this post was looking for some useful info about the Sportsman to see if it fits his needs. As usual an argument has occurred. Rather than confuse this gentlemen any further about how the AWD system works would you guys please just agree to disagree ?? I have ridden both the Sportsman and the Grizzly and there are good things and bad things about both. I own a Grizzly, But I wouldn't hesitate to own a Sportsman. I have no clue how Polaris's AWD works, But I gotta believe it works pretty well since if I am not mistaken Polaris s the number one selling utility ATV. I also would think that someone who owns one would be able to determine how well it works regardless of what the manual says. The owners manual is more of a guideline of how it is supposed to work ans as with anything else in the real world it may not perform exactly how the manual says. This 20% and 1/5 rotation stuff is all guidlines and I will bet that it will vary slightly everytime it is engauged. My Grizzlies locking diff is great, But perfect it is not. It is not an instantanious engaugement and unless you are in a straight line it is harder than hell to turn at all with it locked. I haven't climbed any rocks so I don't know how it handles with it locked then. I also know that I wasn't all that impressed with my Grizz in the mud, But I think that is because the stock tires are next to worthless. It seems like every post on here where someone is just trying to get info about different ATV's turns into a my brand is better than yours and I know more than you arguement. Every machine is going to perform differently and will vary from rider to rider so the only way to determine which one really is the best for you and what you do is to have a chance to try them all in the conditions you ride, Unfortunately for most of us that is not possible. These forums are for helping people and making friends not bickering and arguing over who is right and wo is wrong. Just my two cents, But I just think it is stupid to argue over something so stupid.
Posted by: Whitewater
I love my Sportsman(s). The AWD is great, the braking is great, the suspension is great, the handling is great, the ..... Need I say more?BR>
You can't go wrong with the Sportsman!!!!!
Posted by: Vaquero
OK I just got to put my 2cents in. Rhino go down to your Polaris dealer after it snows(assumuing it snows I don't know where you live) and ride one. Apparently you have never been on one or you wouldn't write the crap you are. I never did well in math, didn't take physics but I do ride a sportsman, I ride rock, mud dirt and anything else I can. You have got to watch very close to see the rears spin before the fronts lock in. Stick it in 2wd then lock the fronts and watch, you will notice a very small amount of rotation before the fronts lock in. Tyr it on gravel and you will never see the rears spin, also they don't unlock immediatly after tracton is equalized. When crawling in the rocks they will lock in usually before your up on the first rock and they will stay locked until not needed for an extended amount of time, and yes it takes a little muscle to turn when locked in. This is the way it is when riding a polaris, try one sometime.
Posted by: Vaquero
Hey Rhino I would love to come down and go riding, need a little more notice though. Spent last weekend riding around Pipestone and alway like to go some place new. My response was specifically from a riders standpoint, I said I didn't do the math thing and such. There are too many variables in the real world to live by a book and was not meant to be specific in any way, afterall I don't care how it works as long as it work like I want it to.
Posted by: Vaquero
First of all I don't care for the personal remark on my intelligence, you don't know a damn thing about me.
Now, Pipestone is just below Homestake Pass on the East side(about 1hr from Bozeman). It starts out on BLM and you can rid into USFS land. Ther is a trial for everybody, from sandy/gravel on the BLM to very rugged rock trails. Not a lot of mud, least not that we have found but I have not cover a very large percentage of the trails. I was going to take pics but never took the time but we did have one crash, a Wolverine that was along rolled and pinned therider against a barbwire fence. No injuries past a bruise or two.
Great pictures, looks like a great place and I will try to get my schedue arranged so I can make the trip, I have a friend in Billings and a few that I ride with(Helena and Bozeman) that would like it if I picked them up on the way.
Posted by: Sean99TJ
I own 2 sportsmans a 500 and a 700, as well as my Jeep. My jeep club maintains a local trail system for 4x4s. My wife and I took our quads over the worst of the trails. The trails include rocks tree roots logs and hills, a non modified jeep CJ or Wrangler cannot run these trails without damage (and a brainless driver). The 4x4 is seamless on the sportsman. My wife left hers on all the time. I turned mine off until I got to a place I couldn't go anymore in 2 wheel drive just to high light for me the difference...the front wheels just started pulling and over we went.
The best thing for anyone interested in a quad in my opinion is look up the local clubs, see what they run and where they run...their riding locations will probably match yours and they will know who the good dealers/service/parts places local are and which machines are best for the area.
Posted by: BryceGTX
The diagram posted by RhinoOffRoad supports the claim by zorro700 and sp600towtruck that little slippage occurs. According to the diagram, the wheel is completely up the ramp in 15 degrees of rotation of the axle. Probably, it is more like 1/2 of that or 7.5 degrees. This translates to 7.5/360*3.1415*25 or 1.64 inches of tire travel. This means if the front tire is stopped, the rear tire will only move 1.6 inches before the front tire moves. This kind if movement is easily equal to the backlash in the drivetrain of any other competitor's system. Remember when crawling on rocks or any other hard surface, if you turn the front wheels and the front differential is locked, one or more of the tires will slip most drammatically (not good). The fact is that all four tires must turn at a different rate when you turn. When the front tires are not allowed to turn at different rates than the rear or each other, the steering feels heavy and tires slip. Rock crawling is most effective when you are going straight, something slips as soon as you turn the front tires. Most jeepers know that you prefer to unlock the front end when you turn on rocks. Probably one reason that the Polaris system is so effective is that not only are the front tires not locked together, but they are not locked to the rear either (unless the rear tires slip). This allows a differential LIKE action between not only the front to rear, but also between the front tires. This allows maximum torque to be available at the wheel with most traction. It seems to be a unique system. The best argument about Polaris vs others is that competitor's systems will have backlash in the drive train that will be at least as much as the slippage angle of the Polaris system. Another argument is that the polaris system will come unlocked when it needs to (in turns), whereas the competitors will force the wheels to slip due to no differential action.
Posted by: BryceGTX
Sorry guys my bad, the roller is at the top of the ramp in 30 degrees, not 15. 1/2 of that translates to 3.28 inches. I figure maximum distance between ramps at 60 degrees (6 side into 360 degrees). It is on the average only half of that off from any given ramp giving 30 degrees. But tolerances in the rollers must be less, so I suggest 15 degrees. If some one can give me exact mesurements I can calculate closer.
Posted by: BryceGTX
Farmr123, that is a good test. It would be interesting for someone with a non-polaris FWD to measure the backlash between the front and rear. The test involves lifting the quad off the ground. Engage AWD, then hold the rear wheels and attempt to rotate the front wheels back and forth. This should be compared with the measurement that Farmr123 provided.
Posted by: Dirtydude
No one here is probably talented enough to tell the difference from one machine to the next. Some people like different things.
I preferr my Blaster for rock crawling, go figure /shrug The Grizz is just too damm top heavy and same with my Dad's Polaris. I for one don't like flopping over on a big quad
