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Posted by: dand11
Save your self a lot of disappointment and go with a compact utility tractor with front wheel assist, 3 point and loader. If you are building in an unimproved location you won&39;t regret it.
Dan
Posted by: ecbaatz
KING QUAD
Posted by: Tcat
I went through a similar process of buying 20 acres of property and building a house 3 years ago. One of my main concerns was being able to get out in the winter. I have about 3/4 mile of road to clear, which comes off of a 1/2 mile dead end gravel road, which is 3 miles from the nearest pavement, you get the idea. I started out buying a used tractor with 8' blade and loader bucket. I have since bought an ATV that I also use to plow. It is an AC 500 automatic like Cowboy's. I'll try to answer your questions through my experiences.
OK, now for the questions:
1) Will a ATV handle these plowing requirements? I currently have an OLD Land Crusier that I use for plowing, but it isn't as versitle or as much fun as a ATV. Should I be thinking about a tractor instead?
It depends. I have a 50" Moose plow on the ATV. I have been utterly amazed at what my ATV can plow, but there are also limits to what it can do. For smaller snowfalls, say up to 6", I can clear my drive just as fast with the ATV as with the tractor. The speed and manueverability of the ATV make up for the lack of blade width. 8" and above the tractor ends up winning with its mass being able to break through snow better. I have plowed through 2-3' drifts with the ATV, it can be done, but obviously takes some effort to move that much snow.
2) If a ATV will cut it, which one do you recommend? Idealy I'd like to find a few year old one to avoid wacking the budget too much, but it looks as if there are alot of new big utility rigs that have come out in the last couple of years. Will consider new.
I'm know I'm biased, but I like the AC 500's for doing work. That's what I bought it for.
3) Are the automatics OK for this kind of work, or should I stick with a manual? I've had some experience with snowmobile belts blowing from time to time, but they are running at much higher RPM than what I anticipate here. A blown belt would be a bad thing in the middle of winter, I'll be stuck at home if I can't plow my way out; course not much stops the old Chevy. Reliability is more important than the convience of the auto.
I love the automatic for plowing. I plow a rectangular parking lot with my ATV. I plow outward from the center making an ever increasing oval. The ability to increase and decrease speed over and over between 0-15 mph without ever shifting is great. The automatic has held up very well.
3) Who makes accessories for use as a "poor mans tractor"? I'd like to see some kind of a box-grader for landscaping and road maintenance.
There are several companies that make ATV implements. Weekend warrior and cycle country come to mind. I saw a box-scraper in the latest Cabelas catalog. I guess one point I wanted to make is this: I have more money tied up in my ATV and plow then I do my used tractor with its accessories. ATV's are expensive, their accessories and implements are expensive. For example, 50" new blade for ATV, $350. 96" new blade for tractor, $500. Around here I can find about any tractor accessory I would need used at auction. Just seems like most ATV accessories have incredible markups. But bottom line is this, most work output per $, tractor; most fun output per $ (and can work), ATV.
That's about all I can help with. There are photos below that show some plowing pictures. Good luck.
Posted by: Tcat
Cowboy,
Hey, no problem. Yea Catlance has the pictures you're talking about. BTW I've been using the plow to move some dirt this week. I'm filling in a steep ravine with fill dirt. It's too steep for anything but the AC to get close to the ravine, so I have a staging area where I dump the dirt and push it and pack it in the hole with the CAT. I'm surprised, it's working better than I thought it ever would. If you close your eyes, it's almost likes it's yellow instead of green, and says D4 on the side...HMMM...
Posted by: Tcat
Brianidaho,
The first reason for the 50" plow was that's all that was in stock at the dealer when I bought the ATV. It was November, and I didn't want to wait for a 60" to come in and make another hour trip to the dealer to pick it up. After using the 50" some I came up with some more advantages for the smaller plow: If you plow sidewalks (normally 48" wide), a 60" could give you problems with tearing up the adjacent turf. I plow out some parking lots, drives, etc., where I load the ATV and plow in the back of the pickup and go. A 60" plow would be a very tight fit fitting it in the bed of a pickup width-wise. You could always angle it, but then couldn't close my tailgate. There are times where the 60" would be nice, but transporting it in my pickup is my biggest hangup with it.
As far as throwing snow, the regular plow works pretty good. At a good clip of speed, you can throw dry snow 3 to 5 feet laterally, and 6 or more feet vertically. Dry snow curls nicely off the top corner of the blade. I would image the "county" type plow would work even better for this, but only have experience with these type plows on plow trucks and not atv's.
Posted by: cowboy
For a pure workhorse atv, you should really consider the AC line of 500's. I have to disagree with Pechimal's comment though about the suspension-the ACT suspension is "cat exclusive" (the rear swing axle design). This system is basically a strait axle rear end that pivots independantly giving more articulation and a smoother ride. Of all the strait axle quads on the market, AC is still the best at keeping all four tires on the ground. In no way will this effect or harm your working capabilities, in fact, by having all four on the ground it will actually help you by increasing traction. He could have meant the new IRS version though, and in which case, I do agree that would not be your best option for towing and hauling. IRS quads loose ground clearance any time you add a load, or hook up to tow something, such as your box blade.
The other machine to look at might be the Traxter line, from Bombardier, or possibly the Kaw 650. In all seriousness and quite honestly, I really don't see the need for anything larger than 500cc's anyway however. I run a '00 500 AC Auto 'Cat, with over 1,200 miles and probably 95% of that is strictly working miles, in 4 wheel, low range while towing and or hauling huge loads of logs. I was "skidding" these, dragging by chain or cable across the ground-again, in low range. The 'Cat handled this fine, even with huge 27" Bi/Tri Claw Magnum tires. In an effort to make it somewhat easier for myself, I just finished building a trailer to haul the logs on, instead of dragging across the ground. I converted and old boat trailer, with an axle heigth of between 18-20", down to a useable 4'x10' space for hauling logs, or a removeable 4'x8' box bed for fence mending supplies and such. I do this work during most of the year, with the exception of the dead of winter when there is several feet of snow, and I can't even get the truck near my place. I have towed our suburban in over 2' of snow, and ridden the 'Cat in depths up to or a hair over 3' unloaded, but the going was slow. Take a look at my pictures at the link below, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about-both towing the sub in 2', as well as other logs and such in deep snow. My point with the 500cc bit is simply this-after all the work I've done, and everything I've put my quad through, the 500cc's has ALWAYS been plenty, and I've never run out of power. Again, keep in mind I'm running 27" aggressive mud terrain tires, which puts a lot more stress on the machine, and demands more power to turn. In all honesty, about the only thing a larger cc machine will give you besides a little more top speed is bragging rights.
The other thing to consider is, setting quads aside, the dealer. The best quad in the world (there isn't one by the way) isn't worth a darn when it's broke down, and if your dealer won't help you out in that time of need, you're screwed. Having a machine down in the dead of winter when there's snow to plow so your wife can get up the driveway with the groceries is a real pain in the butt, so you'll really want to check out the dealer before you buy any brand of quad. Maintenance is the other reason I suggest AC machines-they are very easy to maintain, just change the oil and clean the air filter. You won't want to have to grease everything after every ride and especially all winter long after plowing snow.
As far as the snow goes, you might see those depths occur over night, but really not that frequently. The last several winters around here we really haven't had as much snow as I'd like to have seen personally, but whatever happens, happens, we just go with the flow. I think under these circumstances, the snow plow is the better way to go, and is considerably cheaper than the blower attachment. I would recommend looking into the Moose Brand 60" plow. The 'Cat, or any other 500cc + machine quad will have no problem pushing that, under the regular snow depths. If we do luck out and get a really heavy dump with a lot of deep snow, you might have to go out and plow once while it's still snowing, but that's really no big deal either. If worst comes to worst, and we do luck out and see a big dump of 18" or better, you can always fall back on your Land Cruiser, but honestly, I think a quad with a 60" plow will be plenty to handle the tasks we get out here.
For the rest of your implement needs, Weekend Warrior, and Cycle Country make all kinds of farming implements, such as blades, plows (chisel and disc), box blades, rakes, mowers, etc. Do a search for either of those two names, you'll find probably everything you'll need for atv's as far as implements are concerned. For other accessories, try Cabela's, High Lifter and Rocky Mountain atv for starters, as well as www.hi-per.com, they have a ton of stuff as well.
As far as the Auto goes, like I said, look at my pictures, that will show you a LITTLE of what I do. Unfortunately I lost the roll of the good deep mud pics and the heavy work, but that will give you a small idea. My property is outside of Omak Washington, if you're familiar with the area at all. Basically, it is true that the manual machines are stronger, and better suited to towing heavy implements and such, if you do intend to till all 20 acres, I'd suggest a tractor instead of an atv, that is a lot of area to be doing on a quad. If you're only doing a coule acres though, the quad will be much more versatile for you, and more fun as well. If you do go with the auto, I would shy away from Polaris, simply due to the tranny setup on those machine-they use the snowmobile type clutch, which releases and engages upon giving throttle, consequently you'll tend to burn up a few more belts in the process of the work. AC, the Yamaha Grizzly and I believe the Kaw 650 are all under constant tension, constantly engaged, so you're less likely to burn a belt. I have not slipped mine even once while working or towing heavy loads like the suburban or skidding logs, always worked great for me. My feelings are a little divided on this issue, as for pulling the chisel plows and items like that, I think I'd feel a little safer with a manual machine. I'm sure the auto will do it, as I've worked the hell out of mine with out a single problem at all, but you just never know when that extra "umph" will be too much.
As far as pricing goes, if you don't want brand new, I know AC for sure is giving great deals on '01 models as closeouts, I'm sure Polaris and Yammy will as well. Honda might depending on where you go, but it's been my experience that they just don't deal on any of their machines-there is always somebody who will pay full retail for a Honda, and consequently you won't find that freedom to negotiate as well with a Honda. If you do look at the 'Cat line, I might suggest really comparing the new '02 models to the '01s. AC has made a lot of changes, and me personally, I think I'd opt for paying a little extra and getting the new '02 instead.
Anyway, sorry for the length. I think that about covers all your questions, probably and then some. If you have anything else, just ask, would be glad to try and help.
Best of Luck with the decisions, and congrats on the new land purchase!
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
Brian-
Yes, you are correct-dry weight of the 'Cat is around 650 lbs. Add the fuel, oil that will go up a bit. The current condition you see my 'Cat, with me riding is closer to 1,170 pounds if I remember right-(650 'Cat, 100+ up front, 200 rear, me at 220), yeah, that's about 1,170 it runs around with ALL the time. Yes, I am definately impressed with the low end torque and the pulling ability of the 'Cat. Pre '02, the AC 500 had the highest torque rating of any 4x4 utility quad out there, at 31 ft/lbs., which is more than the 600 griz at 29 ft/lbs! The low range, is LOW, and the torque is amazing. Even with my huge magnum 'Claws, I can still tow everything I used to with the stock tires, just as easily, only better now that I have better traction. And, since doing "minehunters tranny trick", by rotating the spring on the driven pulley, I have been able to tow even greater amounts, and making it easier on the machine by putting it in the proper rpm range immediately when hitting the gas, rather than forcing it to build up to it.
As for the clutches, I am no mechanic by any means, but the way I understand it, is that Polaris uses a "snowmobile" type clutch as they call it, which say you're in neutral, it disengages. As the pulleys come from the sides, the belt runs down the middle, this is what causes wear on the edges of the belt, which leads it to frey and then break, from continuously engaging and disengaging of the pulleys, or clutches, whatever you want to call them. On the 'Cat, they are linked all the time, constantly engaged no matter what. As a result, there is no side wear on the belt and they tend to last longer. To date, I have not heard of anybody having to replace the belts on the auto 'Cats since their introduction in '00. Of course, to Polaris credit, I have heard of a few guys who got something like 3,500 miles on their first belt, which is pretty great if you ask me. Then again, when you see guys like 500DUSE (I think it is) who has replaced 10 of them so far????, it makes you wonder. His sounds like something is severly out of adjustment though, and his damn dealers are not smart enough to figure that out. Anyway, like I said, I'm no mechanic and don't know how to explain it in those types of terms, but that is the way I understand it.
As for the pictures, thanks, yes it is beautiful country. Our elevation is similar to yours, as we start around 2,500-3,000 and move up to 5,000 or so in some places. average on my own ground is probably right around 3,500 though. As for the grader-that is not mine, but a family friends. We use it frequently to fix roads, etc. Comes in handy, but it's nothing like the one I was operating last summer! I got to work for an equipment dealer (Western Power and Supply), they gave me the keys to a BRAND NEW Champion 716A grader, fully loaded with all the options, and something like 10 minutes on the hour meter. I had a lot of fun with that thing! Course I think I liked all the big wheel loaders the best-the Cats were fun too (dozers), but man that grader was cool while I had it!
I have relatives up in Spokane, used to ski up at Schweitzer quite a bit, and over at Silver as well. We ran up to Kelly's quite a bit too, while at school in Pullman, I'm sure you've heard of that place. Don't go there anymore though-not that rowdy anymore-getting old I guess. One things for sure, it is pretty country up where you're at too.
Back to the 'Cats-you're right, they are NOT the fastest by any means. The brand new ones you might hit 60 if you're lucky. They will however climb anything you have the guts to attempt, pull whatever you ask of them, and go about anywhere you could possibly even consider. I will be honest though, since adding my 'Claws, that has increased greatly in places I can go, both due to added traction, but also to the increased ground clearance-getting high centered is not so much of a worry anymore.
Anyway, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask, I'd be glad to try and help. Best of Luck to ya, and again, enjoy that new property!
Pechmial-Very glad to hear you enjoy your new 'Cat! Would love to see some more mud pics of it all dirty-when you get the chance of course! Nice pics by the way of your kids (???) having fun in the mud, that was good! BTW-you might be surprised that your 'Cat can climb trees! I've done that several times, putting one tire up, then crawling right up the thing-in low range of course. Also have driven over numerous trees of up to 3" in diameter before. I don't recommend doing that though unless you absolutely have too-sometimes they'll tend to bow on you the wrong direction, things get a little "hairy" for a few seconds!
Anyway, Best of Luck guys!
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
Hey nice pics man! I'm really liking the looks of the new 'Cats, and would love to have that increased ground clearance. I'd imagine with my 'Claws and spring lift under the 500, you'd have somewhere around 14" clearance which would be awesome! I don't recall exactly what I've got now on my 'Cat, but it was 9.2 stock (claimed), then the spacers added 1.5", plus a full 2" with the 'Claws-that's around 12.7 supposedly, but still, that if I could just squeeze out that extra couple inches somehow.... heh heh heh
Yeah, that mud on there really gives your 'Cat an awesome look-they just look soooooo much nicer all covered in that "protective coating", ya know BR>
Best of Luck, hope you really enjoy the new machine!
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
TCat-
Thanks for replying here, you've got some great snow plowing pics there. You'll have to forgive me though-I knew somebody had them, just couldn't remember for the life of me who it was Sorry! Is it Catlance who has the ones plowing the LONG driveway down towards the main road in to his place, or was that somebody else??? I feel terrible, a couple guys have some great snow plowing pictures, and I can't remember who! BR>
Thanks again for the link, it's amazing how much pictures help out with things, and those illustrate very well what you can do with an atv and plow. Nice pics!
Mike
Posted by: cowboy
Brian-
I wish I had have remembered the camera while "logging" up at elk camp. Pulled a bunch of tamarack, along with some fir and pine as well. The largest of these logs was a big tamarack tree we dropped that was about 20-22" in diameter roughly. I had sectioned it up into lengths about 10-12' long for easier maneuvering through the rest of the standing timber to get back to the truck. Had to pull probably 200 yards or so which wasn't much, but down through a little gulley, then up a moderate hill back to the truck. Plowing dirt was the hardest part, as it dug a hell of a trench along the way. The shorter lengths were no trouble for me on the 'Cat, but did smoke the belt of a '02 Scrambler with ease. The last log I mis-judged, ended up being a hair over 15', and was the lower end of the log-towards the stump, and saturated with pitch. This thing was heavy as hell-two of us could not pick up the small end for fitting the choker chain around-had to tunnel under it. Surprisingly enough, the 'Cat pulled it with ease. I frequently pull logs in the 10" diameter range of mostly lodgepole-those you can easily pull an entire downed tree out with-depending on how big, you can strap two or three together and pull a small bundle of entire trees out-as long as they are of the 10" size or thereabouts.
The best/easiest way to skid logs with the 'Cat is getting that front end off the ground-it prevents you from "trenching" the entire way. I modified an old boat trailer so now I carry the full timber on the trailer, rather than skidding-whenever possible anyway, this has made a HUGE improvement on things. I don't like the idea of hanging that much weight off the back of the 'Cat, so I think if you were to weld something up, get a small axle and a hitch setup, then just mount a 2" ball on your hitch, drag this axle around. With this, you can effectively raise the end of the log off the ground, rest it on the axle and secure with chains. Depending on how wide an axle and how large you get, naturally you'll be able to handle heavier loads-basically what I'm talking about is similar to a log arch I guess, only instead of being in the center and hanging, the log would be resting on the front, just enough to keep the end from trenching along-if that makes any sense.
I've found that a 6' choker cable with slip hook on one end, and grab hook on the other works very well for choking and dragging. I was hooking this up to a 1/2" or 5/8" cable which I towed from, but have been using a short 6' 2" nylon strap lately. That cable is 16' long, ends up being a real burden when towing around stumps-gets hung up pretty easily with that long of a line. If you have any specifics, or any other questions/comments feel free to ask, or send me an email, I'd be glad to try and help. For what you're doing from the sounds of things, the 'Cat will handle that job with ease, and you won't have to worry about the loggers destroying your place in the process of their job. They made a HUGE mess up on my property of which will take many years to clean and restore the conditions it was in prior to the thinning. I hate to sound like a damn greeny here, but this is MY property and they've created a huge fire hazard, which has lead to a lot of work on my end to prevent a loss. A quick hot fire could destroy all of my 1,200 acres in no time flat-that would take forever to come back.
sorry-forgot to add-the brances will be your biggest nightmare-make sure you clean them all off before skidding anything!
Anyway, Best of Luck,
Mike
Posted by: DrRod
Greetings,
Lots of good advice here, two things to add.
1. Try Northern Tool and Equipment -- they have lots of carts, scrapers, blades etc. 2. Whatever equipment you consider buying, check the hitch. These things don't go together like Tonka Toys and, if its not a solid connection, it won't work well and may even be dangerous. I've flipped my flail mower three times while trying out different hitch set-ups. I think its solved with a standard ball and coupler -- but what a hassle it has been.
Good luck out there.
Posted by: DrRod
Greetings,
There's a company that makes several pieces of equipment to help skid logs. One had two wheels connected by a relatively tall arch with a set of timber tongs dangling below. Another one looked like a car hood with a hook on the front. Both were to keep the load from snagging on the way out. Sorry, but I don't remember the web site.
Also, I bought a DR mower a few years back and nothing has ever so exceeded my expectations as that mower. If you can push it over, it will cut it. And using it on brush and sticks just helps keep grass from building up in it. This weekend, I mowed out part of a field long neglected -- golden rod taller than me, roses and canes an inch across, vines, barberry, etc. -- now all obliterated. Its great therapy too (DR actually published an article on brushhog-therapy) -- I put on some head phones (recommended given the engine noise) and plug into the tape player on my belt. Definitely good for you inside and out. You might want to get on the DR owners mailing list. They have a quarterly newsletter, parts sources, upgrades (new brush-weight blades), etc.
Posted by: DrRod
Greetings,
You can contact the DR folks at http://www.countryhomeproducts.com/ They seem to operate with a genuine sense of good old country values and have always been quick to help when I needed it. And once you are on their mailing list your mailbox will never be empty.
Another site you might like is Bailey's at http://www.arborists.com/BAILEYS/uscat.html Along with portable saw mills, they carry all sorts of serious woodsey stuff including their famous Wild Ass Jeans. They also have Christmas Cards with logging themes and even some printed on very thin slices of cedar -- definitely not being carried in your local Hallmark shop.
Posted by: Farmr123
A 'tractor' needs 2 things, power and traction. Traction requires 2 things, weight, and the ability to keep the wheels following the ground as much as possible. The Traxter may be great for plowing snow, it has weight, and a good front differential. The solid rear axle is actually a benefit, as it helps keep the plow level. However, for trail riding, that thing is BRUTALLY stiff. For HEAVY work, may just be the thing.
Polaris makes 2 fairly decent workers, the Sportsman & magnum 500s. The Magnum is geared a little lower in Low, but the Sportsman has the HO engine. Kind of a toss-up to me. The solid rear axle has good work habits, but the IRS of the Sportsman makes a much better trail rider. If all you plan to do is work it, I say go Magnum between these 2.
Splitting the difference is the A/C 500. Available in auto or manual ( I would go Auto) these are great work machines!!!
The strength of a solid rear axle, combined with some of the articulation of an IRS machine. Probably the best of both worlds. Their only real shortcoming is they are S-L-O-W when compared to the Polaris machines. If riding fast or a long ways in a short time isn't important to you, you can't go wrong with a Cat.
Honda's are well built machines, but for work like plowing are too light. More weight will give more traction, and I would rather have weight built-in rather than added on. You can go on and on about the strength of their thin-wall chromoloy steel frames compared to the thick-walled mild steel found in a Cat or Polaris, but I have seen more cracked, bent, and kinked frame tubes on Hondas equipped with a plow, than any other. Only 1 bent Polaris frame, and never a cat. Also, there are about 2 cats with plows for each Honda so equipped around here, and maybe 5 or 6 Polarises (Polari?) There would likely be more Cats, as they do great, but our local dealership isn't what I wish it was.
Can't go wrong with a Grizzly for plowing, but the old air-cooled ones overheated working in the summer. The new water cooled one should be great, though, but only time will tell.
650 Kawisaki ranks with the 700 Polaris in my mind right now. Great on paper, with good potential, but I will wait for more experience with them before I make a judgement call.
Posted by: hammer4
Correct! Arctic Cat does use Suzuki motors. Also, check out the Bombardier "Traxter" with the locking front differential. They also have a new "Quest" 650.
Posted by: Hootie3009
Get the new hona forman s....it has the trax lock for fun and the force to push however much snow u want....with a good set of chains it becomes an ultimate snow plow.
Posted by: billglaeser
check out the 500 arctic cat think that would be a better work quad than the gizz or the 650 prairie
Posted by: GrizRick
Cowboy, and others have had some very good input to offer you as far as getting a "utility/work" quad goes. I would agree with cowboy about staying with a straight axle for a "work" quad. Stronger, more dependable, less maintenence. I've seen the AC's articulating rear axle work, and it does a very good job of keeping the wheels on the ground, while still allowing for the strenght and durability of a straight axle. I would have to say that a manual shift would be better for a pure "work" quad. However I know alot of guys that work the hell out of their autos, without any problems(Polaris excluded). I also ride with a buddy who has a Traxter, and that is another quad worth considering. Its heavier and wider then the AC, which for a work quad, as you have mentioned would be an asset. It has a "locking" front differential for superior traction. The 650 Prarie would also be a good choice. Again, it has a straight rear axle, but it also has 650cc's. More power is always better I'm not too sure if I like the variable "locking" dif of the Prarie. I think it would be better to just engage the "lock" on the front dif and go, but that is just my opinion. I haven't ridden one.
Rick
Posted by: 454casull
Good Gawd guys this fella says he'll be plowing a driveway between 1300 and 2000 feet long, not your typical 50 or 100 foot residential variety; and he'll have to move 12 to 18 inches of heavy wet snow. I know we think our ATVs are invincible but this guy needs a 3/4 ton fourwheel drive pickup truck with an 8' Fisher plow. Don't forget to fill the bed with hardwood logs or cinder blocks, and put the iron the the rear tires. I don't know about your ATVs, but the heater in mine sucks. At least in a truck he won't freeze to death or have to wear a snowmobile suit.
Posted by: Traxterick
You are right,that is a big drive to plow with an atvbut if he has his heart set on one it has to be the traxter. This is without a doubt the best utility quad made. And i did plow snow in excess of 10 in with mine last winter and it didn't spin a wheel. I even made it a point to angle the plow and pile the snow up further to see if it could stop me and it just spilled over the top of the plow and kept going. I had just bought the traxter and was very impressed.
In response to Farmr123 the suspension is not bad for trail riding which is mainly what i use mine for. The extra large soft seat more than makes up for the stiff rear suspension. I can ride all day without any complaints. As for polaris you forgot to mention the xpedition 425. It has a straight axle and gear trans. I think this would be a good worker,i just chose the bombardier because of its features. The rear mounted radiator never gets plugged up with snow or mud and i love the built in front storage compartment. There are a lot of good machines out there just wanted to let you know how satisfied i am with mine.
Posted by: Traxterick
The traxter has a dry weight of 755lbs. As far as the stepthru design i can take it or leave it. Believe it or not i use it mostly as a place to rest my feet when going thru deeper water,i really like it for that. Yes i have the electric shift and really like it. My only complaint is it could shift a little quicker. It is better than when i got it,i reprogrammed it to the quickest shift,something the dealer can do in a couple of minutes. The arctic cat probably would ride a little smoother but i love this machine even for long trail rides. Thats where another benefit of the stepthru comes into play. Ther are no frame rails up high and the motor is mounted as low as possible. This makes it without a doubt the most stable trail quad made. It never feels like it's going to upset even on the steepest hills or riding the side of a slope. Also the low center of gravity really seems to aid in traction. Like i said before you won't in my opinion find a quad that will push more snow than the traxter. The ac is a pretty good machine. A friend has one. Its only weakness is its not very good in deep snow because the front tires are too wide. Luckily for 2002 ac started using 8 in wide on the front,this should help alot. Still not sure if they only use a limited slip in the front. Also the 02 models look alot nicer. Just my opinion. Good luck with your decision and keep us informed.
Posted by: braveheart98
I got no real first hand experience with ATV plows. A few of my friends have them on their wheelers. But all of them still have to get or use a use a real plow truck or grader to handle there needs. Up here in Northern Wisconsin we get are fair share of snow also. The ATV plow seem to be great for a private driveway. But on a road you got to be able to bank the snow. ATV's aren't able to lift the snow high enough to make decent snow banks. Or have the power to move a large snow bank. Your road or yard will slowly start growing in on you and you will have to get somebody to clear you out. A 20-40 Hp ATV won't be able to move the same amount of snow as a 100-300 hp plow truck. Plus the wear & tear on your ATV moving the amount of snow your talking about has to be considered. Plowing snow can play havoc on full size trucks. I can't imagine what stress you would be putting on the ATV with regular use. I'd stick with the Land Cruiser or put a plow on the Chevy.
When that thermometer drops down in the sub zero figures it pretty nice to climb into a nice warm truck cab with a cup of coffee with the tunes cranked to plow your snow. Sure beats freezing your butt off having to make multiple passes through out the day on a ATV.
Not knocking ATV's and their capabilities around the home and farm. I just think for plowing the amount of snow your talking about your best suited not using one. I use mine all the time to maintaining my private road and tons of other duties.
Posted by: Pechmial
I did a lot of research before deciding on the Arctic Cat 400 4x4 for myself. I'd suggest you do the same. My needs, however, are different from your's. I want a sturdy 4x4 with plenty of power, but I'll only us it on the trails. I like the suspension that seems to be a Cat exclusive, but that same suspension system is probaly NOT what you need in your application.
I'd suggest you take up TrailRaker's suggestion and look into the Polaris ATV's. They're almost all automatic, they have a stiffer rear suspension (which you will need for plowing - heck, you'd probably need to block it entirely), and they tend to be heavy machines (which would help you a lot). And he's right about the catalog, it's very think with a surprising amount of optional equipment (including plows and snowblowers).
The only other ATVs I think that would even come close are the Yamaha Grizz and the 650 Kawi Prairie, both automatics and both huge machines.
Hope that helps.
Posted by: Pechmial
Ya...I retract my comments about the Cat's suspension not being up to it. I made those comments based on some info I read about sled pulling with a cat and BEFORE I picked mine up. Last night, after spending some time on my 2002 400 4x4 (with the ACT suspension) I am fairly confident it'd be up to the tasks you have in mind. Though you should probably still consider the 500. All in all it's a solid machine. I felt like I was driving a juggernaught out there. I felt like I could drive over trees!! Somehow, I resisted the urge to try that out!
Posted by: Pechmial
Cowboy, I put a few of me getting mud on it here. Unfortunately, there were no nice boggy type pits to run it through in my usual riding area...only places to give my new ride "character"BR>
Now, if I could only teach my son to take photos as well as I've taught him to ride his quad
Posted by: TrailRaker
Brianidaho,
In my opinion:
1) You're talking about quite a bit of snow. If you're expecting to plow 12-18 inches of heavy snow in one shot- you're going to have trouble, especially if the snow has time to freeze up.
I'm in a similar situation and I feel the solution will to get a snow blower that attaches to the ATV. I haven't done it yet, but after I do I will be posting my experience.
Come to find out there are a few companies that offer ATV snow blowers. They cost from $2K-$4K. I would suggest getting the plow kit in addition (it's about $400) and you can use it for the light stuff and non-snow applications (gravel, loan, etc...).
2) At a minimum, I'd recommend getting a 4x4 machine with a +400 cc motor. You're going to need the power, weight and traction.
3a) I had the same concern when I was shopping. However, the belt systems are different than snowmobiles- they grab instantly. You don't need to wind them up for them to catch.
A friend of mine DRAGGED his fishing shed (+1,000 lbs.) with a Polaris Sportsman 500 without a problem- no slipping whatsoever.
Plus, if you buy a machine that has a Low transmission, you'll have all the low-end power that you need. If you're weary of belts, Honda offers an automatic w/o them....
3b) All of the manufactures offer accessories, but Polaris seems to offer widest variety. Stop buy a Polaris dealer and get their complete catalog- I couldn't believe the extensiveness.
4) Go to the Dealerships and get the brochures and catalogs and read up- it'll educate you and allow you to ask better questions when you talk to others.
After I considered everything, I ended up buying a new Grizz. For the area I was ridding and the purposes that I needed it for, it was my best option- but it might not be yours.
There are other very good machines that I had a hard time choosing between, including the Honda Rubicon, Prairie 650 and Sportsman 700...
Best of luck.
Posted by: brianidaho
I'm new on this forum, so please bear with me. I'm in North Idaho, and in the process of buying a 20 acre parcel by a small lake, where we plan to build next year. I will have 1/4 to 3/8 mile of road to snowplow. Snowfall may run up to 12-18" at a time, potentially with wet heavy snow. Driveway isn't too steep though. I am also looking for a rig to do some skidding of logs, and/or hauling of cut firewood. Will also of course want to do some playing, one issue for a 4x4 that has my wife coming around is the 200-300 foot vertical drop, over about 1/8 mile (ie steep trail) down to the lake. A concern is that the machine also be something that my wife can handle, I'll be on a bike most of the time when we play. My neighbor has a 660 Grizzly that she didn't seem to have any trouble with. Also hope to have the chance to use it to carry big game out of the woods.
OK, now for the questions:
1) Will a ATV handle these plowing requirements? I currently have an OLD Land Crusier that I use for plowing, but it isn't as versitle or as much fun as a ATV. Should I be thinking about a tractor instead?
2) If a ATV will cut it, which one do you recommend? Idealy I'd like to find a few year old one to avoid wacking the budget too much, but it looks as if there are alot of new big utility rigs that have come out in the last couple of years. Will consider new.
3) Are the automatics OK for this kind of work, or should I stick with a manual? I've had some experience with snowmobile belts blowing from time to time, but they are running at much higher RPM than what I anticipate here. A blown belt would be a bad thing in the middle of winter, I'll be stuck at home if I can't plow my way out; course not much stops the old Chevy. Reliability is more important than the convience of the auto.
3) Who makes accessories for use as a "poor mans tractor"? I'd like to see some kind of a box-grader for landscaping and road maintenance.
4) What's a good place to go to learn more?
Thanks in advance.
Bri
Posted by: brianidaho
Thanks for all the replys, I hadn't expected this much of a response this quickly. I'm glad to see all the good comments about the Arctic Cat-I had a couple of their sleds and am still a fan. I had glanced at their ATV's about 3-4 of years back (actually just before I built the Cruiser and plow) and was pretty impressed. IIRC they didn't have all the gimmicy stuff like the LCD display, or as much fairing as the Griz I was on this weekend. To me, that's a good thing, much easier to work on, and probably cheaper to fix when something goes wrong. Does AC use Suzuki motors on these things too?
I think I like the idea of the live rear axle better than the independant. CV joints tend to be the weak link in most drivelines, it would be nice to do without them in this area. From what little time I've spent looking at specs, I recall that the Cat 500's are a 650 lb or so machine, looks to be getting right up there. I don't see the need for the high end speed, 60 mph on something with offroad tires and a 4' wheelbase I can do without anyway. As long as the sustained low and midrange torque are there it seems like the need would be met. I don't plan on farming much if any of the property, summer time activities will be mostly log skidding, maybe carring water for fire containment (I have a fair amount of slash to burn) and playing. I am also a volunteer firefighter, and an ATV seems like the ideal way to get in (and carry water and equipment into) our inevetable lightning strikes. Granted much of the country around here is too steep for a ATV though...
Cowboy, that's a pretty piece of property. Pretty impressive to that you are able to tow 6000# or so of Suburban with 600# of AC. Kind of like those airport tractors moving a loaded 747. I currently live south of Coeur d'Alene, and the property I'm buying is a little SW of Sandpoint. We are a little higher (about 3000 ft) where I am now, and like you said, we usually don't get that much snow at a time, 6-8" is a more likely prospect. I'm kinda thinking of the worst case scenario-4-5" during the night, too lazy to plow before work, and another 8" say during the day. Not that likely anyway, and if the 10 year storm hits, I can always get a neighbor with a tractor or a Cat (er Caterpiller, not Arctic) up to help out. BTW, is the grader in the pic yours Cowboy?
You also mentioned a difference between the Polaris and AC clutch. I'm familiar with the snowmobile style (Polaris per your post) (have spent a little time rebuilding Commets), but don't understand what the AC has. Is there a seperate centrifical clutch in addition to the CVT?
I'll be checking the local dealers, hope to have some time this week, though the weekends are kind of tied up with hunting season. Thanks again for all the helpful tips.
Brian
Posted by: brianidaho
OK, you guys have pretty well talked me into the Arctic 500! I stopped by my local dealer, only to find out that they were going belly up-had only had the franchise a couple of years. There is supposed to be someone opening up soon, but no "official" announcement. The "old" guys still had 2002 literature, I like what I see. I'll be over at the fair in Spokane this weekend, maybe a dealer will be there with one. Any idea what a 2002 500 auto is selling for?
Stopped by the local Polaris dealer and described what I was looking for. Salesman tried to say the 300 Bayou. Seems like it would be a little light and underpowered for my needs. It does have a semi-independant (ACT type) rear suspension, where the big Prairie has a ladder style non-independant.
Tcat, great plowing pics! With the ammount of roadway you do, why the 50" blade rather than a 60? Does anyone here use one of the taper or "state" plows? At my current place, our road runs across a steep hillside, without alot of excess width to plow snow over into. Having a plow that will lift and throw it fairly high is a big geal. I'm wondering if the taper plows do a better job of this. I've tipped the blade back at a angle on my Land Cruiser to get the extra lift, it helps. This will be a little less of an issue with the new patch of dirt, in that it isn't as steep.
I'd really like 2 toys, a 4x4 tractor for work and a ATV for play, too bad the budget (and the wife) doesn't allow both! I'll try a few different machines out at the dealers this winter and see how they do. Thanks for all the input.
Bri
Posted by: brianidaho
454 Casull, the 12-18" of snow is a worse case scenario-much more common is 4-8". I'm hoping an ATV will be up to this, in spite of the length of roadway involved. Much more versitle (sp?) than the plowing rig I have now. Parts for the old Land Crusier are expensive, and getting harder to find as well. If we do get the big dump every few years I have a neighbor with a D6 that can take care of things.
Traxterrick, the Traxter is appealing-even heavier (just over 700 lbs if I recall) than the AC, and I also like the front storage bin and the radiator out back. Also looks easy to get at the motor , just flip up the seat. I'm mixed on the step-through seat-how do you like it? The negative as I see it is that the suspension doesn't sound to be up to that on the Cat for trail riding and general "playing". Wish I had a good chance to ride and plow with both rigs before putting down my money! Do you have the electrically-controlled geared automatic (if that is the appropriate term) in yours? I kind of liked the idea of this-the auto when wanted (especially if the wife rides it) and the positive control of the manual when desired. My dealer has them for right around $6300, actually a bit less than the nearest AC dealer I've found.
Bri
Posted by: brianidaho
OK more questions for you guys...I just had the state forester out to the new piece of dirt on Friday to do a timber management plan, required for a tax thingey. I have some timber to thin, most of which is fairly small (less than 10" dia). Most of that I'll be dragging up to the house and cutting up for firewood. I also found out that some of my larger trees are diseased (root rot) or being killed by mistletoe, and will need to come out. These are a little larger (14-18" dia tam and red fir), and will be sold for timber. I'd like to drop these myself and skid them out with a ATV, rather than having a logger tear things up with a skidder or Cat. Any of you guys that use a AC for skidding, can they handle something this big? I'm going to want to keep the lengths as long as possible on these to maximize yield. I've skidded considerably larger ones with my pickup, but it is a little big to get in some of these places. I'm thinking I could weld up a small steel sled with a choker to pull the log and keep the leading end from plowing into the dirt. Cowboy and others, any thoughts?
Thanks again guys.
Bri
Posted by: brianidaho
Thanks for the reply Cowboy-sounds like you have done alot of work with your Cat. I looked at some of your pics, pretty impressive the load you had choked together and were dragging. I like the idea you have for a small trailer-something that would keep the front end of the log up and keep it from plowing sounds like the way to go. I'd like to put together some fairly good size wheels and tires, but on a narrow track to get through the tight stuff. Time to start scrounging some material.
I'm with you on the commercial logging thing-I have seen some cuts that were done nicely, others that were badly trashed-what trees weren't cut were killed by the slash burn. I have to admit that doing a good job of cleanup is very time consuming. I've done a little thinning on the current place and was burning slash and clearing brush all day. Fun, but you work all day and it doesn't look like anything's accomplished. I'm both envious of you for owning 1200 acres, and in shock that you can begin to clean up that much area. LOTS of back aches. From what I saw, looks like great hunting country as well.
I've been cutting my firewood on public land for quite a while, and the easy stuff is always gone. I've had to drop some 28-30" fir on the downhill side of some steep hillsides, it has amazed me what the Chevy can drag out. Broken a bunch of 1/4" cables tugging at stuff, finally dropped the bucks for some 3/8 this year and rigged up a couple of loops-chain and hook on one end, and clevis on the other. I bought 60' of cable to get to where I needed, but have to double or tripple it up to shorten the pull length sometimes, need more shorter ones. Should be able to salvage some of the 1/4 for the ATV.
I also bought a DR mower earlier this year. Came across a used one at a garage sale, can't afford (or won't pay the bucks for) a new one. Works pretty well considering how much brush I feed it.
Gotta go, house plans need finishing. Thanks again for the input.
Bri
Posted by: brianidaho
Hi DrRod, you are right it's pretty amazing what one of those DR's can do. I have an old one, picked it up for $150 at a garage sale this summer. It was owned by someone seriously lacking in mechanical aptitude, wouldn't cut at first-but worked fine when I turned the blade over! A few other little things like that. Drive chain is broke now-it had apparently been left outside unlubed and rusted. Picked up a new one tonight. I only wish I had one for the last few years-I've been busting my butt with a push mower and with a handheld weedcutter trying to keep on top of things. The DR will in all honesty do more in an hour than I could do in a day before, and with less effort. Where can I get on the mailing list for the newsletter?
As to the logging accessories, you have kind of jogged my memory. A couple of years back I was researching portable saw mills (which I have sense realized I can't afford). Anyway, I got a video from one of the manufacturers, that had some of the lifts and trailers on it. Might have been Norwood Industries, I need to do some digging.
One other thought. Even a little logging results in a lot of slash (limbs) to pile and burn, major amounts of work. I'm thinking that once I get a plow (and bike of course) I could replace the blade with a bar (maybe 2x4 tubing) with some hooks or spikes, kind of a big rake, and use it for scraping up and piling slash. Would be kind of like the brush rakes they put on dozers. Any thoughts if something like this would work? Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to design or fab up. I need to study just how the blades mount to the a-frames of these plows.
And speaking of burning, I'd like to have a portable water supply and pump that I could moount to the bike. I'm thinking a 20-25 gallon tank would be about the 200 lb weight limit on the AC rack, with a RV waterpump, both to fill and to spray. Fire suppression is a big deal around here, and my new place is not in a fire district. This much water isn't going to preform miracles in a big blaze, but would help alot in mopping up after a lightning strike, or if one of my slash burns tried to get away. Anyone done anything like this?
Bri
