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Posted by: Robert Venable
Drum brakes are fine. BUT WE WANT DISC BRAKES ALL THE WAY AROUND. If I'm going to pay 7 grand for a quad, it better have what I want.
If I were you I would go with the 500 Honda.
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Arctic Cat 500, Not your average Kitty, The New King Of the Jungle
Posted by: Robert Venable
I never said I needed Disc Brakes. I said "Drum brakes are fine. BUT WE WANT DISC BRAKES ALL THE WAY AROUND."
It's cinda like going to Burger King and ordering a Whopper and getting a Big Mac. If I'm going to ut out the money you better give me what I paid for.
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Arctic Cat 500, Not your average Kitty, The New King Of the Jungle
Posted by: BiGMiKe
shame shame shame the guys question was on which new quad should he get not a long winded discusion on brakes i say wait for your 2001 grizzly
Mike
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99 Grizzly , Vamped & Liffed
Ride safe today,because to ride again tomorrow is Righteous!!!!
Posted by: Tree Farmer
Phoenix1, I agree with you regarding drum brakes on a quad.
PROPERLY SEALED drums (and Honda knows how to seal brake drums), correctly adjusted, will stop you in a hurry and last a long time. Appropriately-sized drum brakes function adequately for a quad.
Disc brakes have the advantage of no wear adjustment required, lighter weight, and fade resistance (although any ATV rider pushing his mount to the point of brake fade rides a lot more aggressively than I!).
While disc brakes offer certain advantages, drum brakes seem safe and adequate.
Tree Farmer
Posted by: kevin_staton
I agree with Kagey here.
Disc brakes weigh less than drums. They're less complicated when it's time to change the pads/shoes.
I had a Yamaha Blaster which has drums on the front and a disc in the back. I was constantly adjusting the front brakes and never touched the rears. When I went through water, the drums took longer to dry-out than the disc.
On a utility machine, where weight is not a concern, if you don't mind adjusting the brakes, the drums should be fine.
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Kevin Staton
Windrock ATV Club
Posted by: Rob_Ervin
Several months ago, I was trying to decide between the same models you have listed, except w/o the auto tranny on the Suzuki and the Arctic Cat. I like all those machines and really don't think you could go wrong with any of them. I finally decided on an Arctic Cat 500 (manual tranny), mainly because the dealer support was so much better than any of the other models in my area. If we had a GOOD Polaris Dealer in my area, I probably would have chosen the new 500 Magnum. However, I have been very pleased with my AC 500 and would recommend it to anyone....BUT each to his own. It has torque out the wazoo and the ride is very comfortable. I liked the Grizz, but really wanted water cooling...just a personal preference.
Anyway...Good Luck!
Posted by: Bill.Ciliberti
I cannot and will not speak for any other manufactures of drum brakes except Suzuki.I owned a 87 KQ and my bro has a 97 KQ.Dont even think of going mudding with these two KQs without removing the drums for a real good brake and drum cleaning after a mudding event.The Suzuki drum brakes on the KQ are absolutly the worst drum brake set-up I've ever personally seen.And at 40$ per wheel for shoes,Suzuki should of done alot better job of sealing their drums.Thats why the KQs dont go mudding anymore. BILL
Posted by: Bill.Ciliberti
Phonix 1,it has been my experience that disk brakes out wear and absolutely ''out stop'' drum brakes.I cannot comment on the sealing properties of any other manufacture's drum brakes except Suzuki,which I earlier told you is very poor when it comes to sealing out debris and water.Disk brakes are Overall just a better brake set up than drum type brakes,but because of differant types of quad set-ups,they are not allways practical in all applications.I guess what im saying is,if giving your choice of brake styles,I'd prefer disk brakes over drums. BILL
Posted by: kclayd
I have a Suzuki 300 King Quad. It is reasonably priced and has great suspension, differential lock, 2 wheel or 4 wheel drive, 3 gear ranges, etc. It is a very good machine which I would recommend to anyone.
One other thing I like about the Suzuki is that its parts are not as over-priced as other manufacturers. Recently, I backflipped my King Quad down a towering incline. I tumbled backwards about 75 yards, and it bounced and tumbled about 150 yards, until it ran into a tree head-on and stopped. If it hadn't been for the tree, the King Quad would still be tumbling now. After bending the front fender off of the wheel, I fired it up and drove the mangled thing about six miles back to the parking lot, loaded it up and took it to my trusted Suzuki Dealer. It was fixed good as new in less than 2 weeks for less than $900 total. Could Honda or Yamaha do that? Don't think so. I know Kawasaki couldn't.
I would also recommend the Arctic Cat. It starts in gear, has disk brakes, and you can use differential lock in all three gear ranges. It also has a big gas tank, I think 3 1/2 gallons. Another big selling point for the Arctic cat is low pricing for parts, lower even than Suzuki.
[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 10-23-1999).]
Posted by: JarrodHolland
I don't mean to clog up the thread with something off topic, but I have a question for Kagey.I am in the market for a new quad.At first, I wanted a Scrambler.But this weekend, I rode a Honda 450ES and I enjoyed the relaxed, layed back riding I could do. I didn't have to ride the hell out of it to make it up small creek banks, I could just sit back and enjoy the ride. But, I don't want a 3-wheel drive Honda and I don't want the independent rear Sportsman, So that leaves the Magnum 500. I was wondering how you liked yours.Comfortable? Powerful? Good in all terrain? And how about any problems? Any information you or any other Magnum owners have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Jarrod Holland
Posted by: Kagey
From a mechanics standpoint on the disc verses drum brake issue. I glanced back through my shop records and found that the most common brake job that I perform has been on Honda 300 4x4s with Drum brakes take into consideration that there are more of these 4 wheeler here than the other makes and it makes sense but when I ratio it The brake work evens out pretty well. We have only one riding condition here,MUD it eats up brakes and I have Never seen a drum setup that has been able to keep all of it out. The disk seem to wear better in the muddy conditions especially the Willwood equiped new model Polaris machines with the slotted self cleaning rotors. One great thing about the disk are the fact that they don,t have to be adjusted. I can say the most common thing I do a lot here is it seems I am constantly adjusting someones drum brakes all the time. These guys around here don,t want to learn to adjust their brakes they rather just run it by here and let me do it . I try to teach them but to no avail. Guess I should be thankful for the work. Another thing I can tell you is that *when you run out of brakes with a drum setup or they get way out of adjustment you litterally have NO BRAKES *I have seen the tragic results of this happening on Honda machines when the owners did not have the brakes repaired. They went out and their kids jumped on the quads and ended up rolling out into the highway and were hit by oncoming cars one was killed the other was horribly injured but lived to ride again needless to say they keep good brakes on their Quad now. When you wear out Disc pads you get a really bad metal to metal grind but I have never seen the brakes fail to stop with worn out pads matter of fact they tend to be a little more grabby when they get hot. Another point for the disc is how easy they are to change I know the Polaris setup I can change the brakes on both fronts in around 15 minutes. Drums, Better have a little more time. I,ve not had a chance to change a Cats yet but I imagine its just as simple. Both have good points and disadvantages. But pound for pound I,ll personally take the disc brakes .
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Kevin Gowdy aka Kagey 1999 Polaris Magnum 500
[This message has been edited by Kagey (edited 09-18-1999).]
Posted by: Kagey
Must confess after I wrote that long winded post I stopped and asked myself "wait a minute what was the original question". Almost went back and deleted that essay I wrote.
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Kevin Gowdy aka Kagey 1999 Polaris Magnum 500
Posted by: Kagey
Jarrod; I have been very impressed with the Magnum 500 so far . I have had absolutly NO problems with it ,it has been a great performer. I was the first in the group I ride with to get one. Soon after I got it two other members traded for the Magnum (one traded a sportsman the other a 3004x4Honda)both have really enjoyed their Magnums , Another is talking about buying one after this past weekend when he rode one of theirs, The ride is great it is better than any other quad I have ever been on besides the sportsman(which I really have no desire for to complex a design for me) Look through the Polaris forum you will notice that there are no complaints against the Magnum line 325,or 500. If polaris made all of their Quads as well as the magnums appear to be I believe the reliability issues would not exist. The design is great strong and durable. Really like the EBS works very well worth the money in saved brake pads have 1200 miles on mine now and still have over 50% brake pads. I could go on and on but I ramble to much anyway Post for opinions on the Polaris Forum above and see what kind of response you get there are several other owners in the Forum disscusion who would likely be glad to share opinions on the Magnum 500. I really like mine I use it on the farm as well as for pleasure and I have stuck it only once(see "worst stuck")on the Polaris Forum) I put Goodyear muddrunners on it and really made it a better all around machine ,less steering effort better ride and a more durable tire than the stock tires.
[This message has been edited by Kagey (edited 09-22-1999).]
Posted by: corncob2
"I particularly enjoy the power, ground clearance, ride and handling of my own 500SP--I admit I'm smitten by its beauty, as well!
"Of course, I'm speaking only for myself--many fine machines exist; each rider must find what he likes best."
Isn't this what you meant to say? You really didn't mean to bash BigRed450 and his machine, now did you?
[This message has been edited by atvbbs (edited 10-17-1999).]
Posted by: benelli
Allen, I can't help you with any information because the only atv I've ever owned is a Polaris Sportsman, and it only has 80 miles on it. So far no problems, but with only 80 miles on it I would hope not. The real reason I replyed to your post is that I notice you live in Burlington, and that's where I live.
Posted by: Phoenix1
I would pick the Rubicon or Water-cooled Grisley, given the choice.
And, if I may, I would like to pose a question to everyone, What is wrong with Drum brakes? I have had no problems or heard of any problems related to Honda drum brakes. Is there something I am missing? My 450ES stops on a dime, or as well as I would expect a 600 lb. machine to stop.
I have, however, heard of problems with disk brakes, especially short pad life.
Any input would be appreciated.
Posted by: Phoenix1
Thanks Treefarmer, I was starting to get an inferiority (SP) complex. I feel that they are adequate. I can see how someone racing would want disk brakes, but for a sport quad?
Robert, please don't take this the wrong way, but why do you need disk brakes?
Posted by: Phoenix1
I think that I am getting it, forgive me. But if I understand correctly, what you are saying is: Improperly sealed drum brakes suck, but properly sealed drum brakes are adequate. Disk brakes are better for racers and for manufactures who can not properly seal drum brakes. This sound correct?
Do brake pads for disk brakes wear better, worse or the same as brake shoes for drum brakes, in general?
Posted by: Phoenix1
But Bill, why? If drum brakes can lock up the tires, what advantage would disk brakes have. I am not trying to argue, and I do not have much experience with disk brakes on a wheeler. Aside from the better wearing, how is it that they stop better?
Posted by: uh008
All things considered (Price,Maintenance, Reliability, Availibility, Dealer Support, Resell Value)what in your expert opinions is the Ultimate Auto-Utility ATV.
I personally own a 98 Grizzly that I use more as a tractor than a recreational item. It does well, however I believe I would prefer liquid cooling, for my current needs (all work, little play).
I am kicking around the following options.
1. Keep the Grizzly and put up with the heat and oil temp lights. This would be the cheapest. (My wifes favorite choice).
2. Trade to the AC500 auto this fall. Nice suspension, disk brakes, liquid cooled, I prefer the "push button on the fly" 2WD/4WD option I currently have.
3. Trade to the Suzuki QuadMaster 500 this fall. Same as the AC500 without the brake or suspension advantages, but probably a little less expensive.
4. Trade to the Polaris Magnum 500 this fall. I would love the AWD system and decent ride, however there are to many maintenance issues/horror stories out there for this coward.
5. Trade to the Honda Rubicon in the spring. Get the infamous Honda reliability, no belts and maintenance to worry about. Don't like the all time 4WD, I like to be in 2WD mode when I don't need the extra traction. Also what is up with drum brakes all around? A great new realease into the auto market and it comes with drum brakes.
6. Wait till next year and hope Yamaha comes out with a liquid cooled/updated Grizzly. They seem to breaking that ground now with the new Kodiak pretty well.
Awaiting your response's
Allen L. Grooms
98 Grizzly 1175 hard miles
Posted by: uh008
Guys,
Thanks for bringing the discussion back in line with my original question, however one of the things I did ask people to comment on was reliability and maintenance. If drum brakes are ok, then fine, but if the fill with water, mud, and sand, then NOT ok. I am a big advocate of minimum user maintenance. I am looking for a ATV that I can use like a tool, hence a utility machine. I get it out, use it, clean it up a little and put it away. Ultimately I want an ATV that is like a hammer. I don't baby my hammer, I don't clean it with a Q-tip, I don't lube 20 grease zerks or anything else for my hammer. I use it, clean it up, and put it away.
I am going to look at the Suzuki QuadMaster this week, the dealer said he just got two in. The Arctic Cat dealer indicated he may have an Auto-500 in by end of the month. My guess is they won't really want to many people test driving them as they are on limited availability right now. Kind of like when the Grizzly was first released, don't test ride it, because then we would have to clean the dust off of it.
If Yamaha expects people (like myself) to wait around for a liquid cooled big bore they had better let someone know if it is coming, before we all switch over to the competition. I would hate to hold out for a hopefully liquid cooled 2001 Grizzly just to find out they not going that direction.
Thanks Allen L. Grooms
98 Grizzly 1200 Utility Miles
Posted by: BigRed450
Well fellas, I have a 2000 Honda 450es with 785 klm (approx. 600 miles) & 85 hours and haven,t had a lick of problems. Like our friend here, I use my ATV as a tractor, I use it , wipe it off, and put it away. I pull wood out of the bush, make trails, pull water and feed carts to water and feed my livestock. The electric shift "MANUAL TRANSMISSION" (as used on formula 1 race cars) works flawlessly . Try one out, it's awesome!
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[This message has been edited by BigRed450 (edited 10-16-1999).]
Posted by: xepathfinder
The Magnum is a really good quad got a friends with a 325 he loves it uses it hard and has had NO troubles like most people I know with Polaris he has to put gas in it or gas and oil for us Polaris owners with two-strokes, it seems that the only Polaris that might have some issues is the Sportsman. I never here anyone ever complain about the Magnum or the Xplorer. The Xplorer 400 is an awesome quad!! Never was I so impressed with the power and ride of any quad. I ended up with a 250 Xplorer which I love and have had no trouble with, I know guys with Polaris machines with thousands of miles on them and have had to do nothing to them. So I would choose a quad mainly on the use it is going to get, not so much on the brand. but i would not trade my Polaris for both the Honda 300 4x4 or the Yamaha Warrior that I owned previously to the Xplorer. The place I bought my Polaris at is the same Place I bought my Honda 4x4 and I asked them if the Polaris was going to do the job they said look at what we drive, and they all use Polaris! Ask people who own Polaris in the real world and get there opinion.
Posted by: DreamofPolaris
Although this is kinda off topic, I'll post it anyway.
Okay, so my name is DreamofPolaris and I want a Magnum or Sportsman 500 bad enough to do almost anything. But, if by the time I scrounge up the money to get one, someone else makes a quad that I think is better for me, I'll buy that one. In short, I have no brand bias (except that I hate Fords, but thats not for this forum).
I went to the Dealer today to take a look at new quads. If I do get one it'll be used, but any quad is more fun than no quad. It was nice to see the new ones though.
The Grizzly and Magnum 500 were parked next to each other and looking at the Grizzly, it's just way too damn big for trail use. Way too wide!! I like the large engine, but it's just too big for me.
I think the Magnum is a nicer machine too. The Grizzly looks very macho, but I like the Magnum myself. Reasons definitely include the composite racks and liquid cooling system.
All the quads mentioned are nice and all are useful. Test ride all of them and see which one you like the best. Buy the one that's best for you, not everyone else on here.
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Posted by: DavidParenteau
With regards to the drum brake issue we found that the Honda drum brakes had excellent sealing qualities but in Northern BC where it can get real cold the seals tended to freeze to the drums.This wasn't too bad with the 4x4's because the drive power would usually break them free,however the two wheel drives would just push the front wheels without them turning.We carried propane torches to thaw them out.
Just something I thought you might be interested in knowing.
We solved the brake problem by buying Argos.
Dave
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