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Posted by: Tree Farmer
A snatch block doubles line pulling capability.
Snatch blocks (from J.C. Whitney, et al) cost $ 10-$ 20, in contrast to winches, costing several hundred.
Why not carry and use a snatch block when more line pull is required, whatever size winch you buy?
Tree Farmer
Posted by: Tree Farmer
Mudmachine, I agree with your safety suggestion: a damper on any stressed cable is a good idea, because wire rope stores lots of energy and can launch a pretty heavy projectile (e.g., hook, snatch block) with a lot of acceleration.
However, I beg to differ with you regarding cable stress with snatch blocks; the cable is not further stressed by their use. If, for example, the maximum line pull of a winch is 2000 pounds, at full pull the stress on the cable at any point is no greater than 2000 pounds, no matter how many snatch blocks are involved. The multiplication of lines involved in using snatch blocks increases the effective pull of the winch without adding stress to the cable.
Imagine a straight single line pull of 2000 pound on the cable hook attached to a pull point; cable stress = 2000 pounds; extraction force = 2000 pounds.
Now, run the line through the pulley of a snatch block and connect the end hook to the quad. Cable stress = 2000 pounds still, but since you now have TWO cables between the pull point and the quad; the extraction force becomes 4000 pounds.
Add another snatch block onto the quad bumper and run the line through its pulley and back to the pull point. Cable stress = 2000 pounds (all you're EVER gonna get with THIS winch!), extraction force is now 6000 pounds, 3 times the line pull, because there are three lines between the quad and the pull point, each stressed at 2000 pounds tension.
Each snatch block pulley shaft experiences a total stress equal to double the line pull, but the line stress never exceeds the winch rating. This mechanical fact, for example, enables wire rope draw works on oil drilling rigs with crown and traveling pulley blocks to pull miles of large-diameter drill stem, weighing many times the rating of a single cable run, vertically from the earth, with nominal-sized cable.
Tree farmer.
Posted by: Tree Farmer
Right you are, Mborum!
ATV winches draw astronomical currents (ninety (90) amps at full pull with my ATV1500, according to SuperWinch).
The limited electrical power generation and storage systems on ATV's, combined with the high current draw of winches, means electrical winch operation is possible only intermittently--maybe the hand-crank feature of my ATV1500 is a good idea!
Solenoid-controlled and -powered winches, like the Warn 2500, spare the hand-held "In-Out" switch the full current load, while smaller winches, like the Warn 2000 and SuperWinch ATV1500 pass the full load through the control switch.
Locating a properly-rated DPDT solenoid necessary for converting to solenoid-control and -power is hard, outside of a winch manufacturer. At around $ 100, SuperWinch's solenoid kit, 2/3 the cost of a new winch, is hard to justify.
Now, with four automobile starter solenoids and some wire . . . I'm headed to the junkyard!
Tree Farmer
Posted by: mudmachine
A thing about Snatch Blocks:
Most QUALITY winches have over-rated line anyway, BUT REMEMBER, that when you run it thru the block, you GREATLY increase the pressure on the line as it passes thru the pulley on the block.. The line on the winch side, and on the block side dont have as much, but as it runs across the pulley in the block, it briefly gets ALOT of extra stress.
If you are in an EXTREME situation where you have it doubled and its STILL heavily straining the winch, STOP just long enough to throw a wet shirt/jacket/or lean a decent sized dead log against it.. If it breaks, the weight on the line will send it toward the ground before it gets to your face!! (or atleast to the front of the quad)
Posted by: Andy Bassham
You are right there Adam. I don't think there is such a thing as too much. I just have the 2000 lb warn, and it has done fine, but I haven't been stuck in any bad stuff. Just winched it up a couple of steep hills. It seemed like it was stressing it some one time, but it pulled the bike on up. If I could have gotten the 2500 in the deal, I would definitely preffered it. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
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Andy Bassham *(1999 Arctic Cat 500 4x4, 1989 Honda 300)*
Posted by: Andy Bassham
Thats a good deal. I got my winch in a promo deal with the bike for $100, but I doubt Arctic Cat was worried having just sold a $6000 bike. I believe I have seen the Warn 2000 in Cabelas for like $399 or something. It was just with the Hawse fairlead and instructions. Then you had to buy a mount and a roller fairlead if you wanted it for a total of around $80 extra. You did good at $215.
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Andy Bassham *(1999 Arctic Cat 500 4x4, 1989 Honda 300)*
[This message has been edited by Andy Bassham (edited 08-23-1999).]
Posted by: Andy Bassham
Tree Farmer uses big word terminology, but he does know what he is talking about. Put in simpler words for those of lesser intellegence, it alway seems to make sense. He made me understand how he figured differences in torque readings. Took me a while, but I got it. In the winch thing here, it can be explained by two words. MECHANICAL ADVANTAGE- A term I picked up in 9th grade Physical Science. It applies to the ease of pulling, lifting, etc. by means of levers, pulleys, and stuff like that. If you had two pulleys, then you would have an even greater pulling capacity. It takes less force to pull when you have a greater mechanical advantage.
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Andy Bassham *(1999 Arctic Cat 500 4x4, 1989 Honda 300)*
Posted by: Andy Bassham
I love having the winch, but I wouldn't have got it if I hadn't got in in the promotion package. $300+ is too much for me personally to spend on something that I wouldn't use that much. I don't really ever go out and play with the winch much. It is mainly insurance for if I ever decide to try something on my quad that there is a chance I might not make it through. Its nice to have it when you need it.
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Andy Bassham *(1999 Arctic Cat 500 4x4, 1989 Honda 300)*
Posted by: kevin_staton
TreeFarmer,
Try Napa instead. Brand new solenoids for ~$8 each. I just recently got rid of my large rotary switch in favor of 4 solenoids and a dual-pole, dual-throw, center-off, momentary rocker switch.
I got the wiring diagram at http://www.wms1.com/forestcity/forestcity98/pages98/pm_4_sol.html
Even though I thought I was buying isolated coil solenoids I managed to dead-short and boil my battery. NEVER run positive to the case of a solenoid without having a switch between the solenoid and the battery (~$40 lesson).
I have the switch mounted in the "pod" on my Magnum with only 3 18ga wires coming from under the hood.
If anyone is interested, I can post a parts list and answer any questions you have.
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Kevin Staton
Windrock ATV Club
Check out our upcoming Fall Ride
2000 Polaris Magnum 325 4x4
[This message has been edited by kevin_staton (edited 08-25-1999).]
Posted by: quad_man
I was just thinking, I don't think is such thing as having "too much winch" on a modern 4x4 ATV, especially the ones that play in the mud and have big engines.
On the last Marshall ride we went on, my dad sunk his Sportman in thick mud, that had no water, up to the bumper. The Warn 2500lb winch pulled for a while, but eventualy quit working until we doused it with water and let it sit for a long time. This was some bad mud though, I had shovel and it wore me out fast trying to dig out from around the front of the quad. It took 2 winchs to pull him out, but at first even they couldn't, until they hooked on trees.
Other than that one incident, the 2500 has been find. But on an ATV this big, I don't see why anyone would want anything less than a 2500lb winch for serious mud riding.
Just an FYI!
Adam Dowden
PS-We might have made it with a scatch block, but we don't have one.
Posted by: mattsibley
I agree with the not ever having too much winch. Sometimes you need it. I know I did today. I too have a 2500 lb. WARN winch. It barely got me out today. And I only have a 300cc quad.
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Posted by: mattsibley
Tree Farmer,
You have a good point too. My WARN 2500 lb cost nearly 500 dollars to get it mounted. The winch itself cost 363.89 for me. And I got a good price on it. The 2000 lb winch cost somewhere around 280 and the 1500 lb superwinch cost 150. Doubling your power should usually get you up and out of the hole with the 2000 lb. I just wanted something big to pulls trees with if I tied off.
Posted by: Muddy_Doug_E
You better be careful Tree Farmer this is the kind of talk that got you in trouble on another thread. Hahahahahah. Thanks for all your posts I find them informative and from sound probably educated reasoning. Keep em comming.
Muddy Doug E
2000 Kodiak, 425 Magnum and 220 bayou
Posted by: Foreman4x4
Just a little info on snatch blocks . I just purchased two from The local ACE Hardware store for a total cost of $12.00 . The blocks have a removable pin for rigging your winch cable over the pulley wheel . When I bought my winch I received as part of the package an accessory kit from Warn . It contained a snatch block , shackle and a tree strap all in a nylon case . I've since seen the same kit for sale in Cabelas for $79.99 which is ridiculous , you could probably put the same kit together for less than $25.00 . Good luck .
P.S. I paid a total of $215.00 for the Warn a2000 new in the box and the accessories .I wish I could have gotten a dozen at that price but it was a one time deal .
Posted by: mborum
I enjoy everyones post!
Got my winch that I purchased for the grizzly yesterday and will start putting it on today.
After looking over everthing and the load chart no wonder things heat up and switches burn out. It's a great little winch but come on; #8 (40 amp) wire for the main leads?
As for me: I'm glad I bought the winch pakage because it's easier to pull than push your way out of the mud. q:-)
Got to go put a winch on and love your post subjects. ONE GOOD INFO PLACE!
mborum= 2000 grizzly and that's my opinion
[This message has been edited by mborum (edited 09-06-1999).]
Posted by: pathfinder
How stupid can I get
I purchased a Rule winch this spring and later went riding in the mountains. I got hung up on a stump in an off camber hillside. I'll bet I fought that thing for 15 minutes and was sweating like a pig. I was thinking I wish I had my come-a-long with me. I felt like a complete idiot when I realized I had the winch. Bet I don't forget again.Worked great though.
