Pages: 1
Posted by: RoostKing
Your guaranteed more thrills on the Banshee, for sure. The acceleration is like no other quad available. And its not that bad for the track.
RoostKing...
Posted by: RoostKing
Fakie,
The reasons I went with the FMF/Power Cores was simple. I saw them outperform different (toomey, PRD, Paul Turner, Pro Circuit) etc...,types of pipes. My buddies Banshee, with nothing special except maybe the coolhead, was whipping just about everybody that was not ported a the dunes on different weekends. Not only that, but I have a magazine article where they dynoed some of the faster quads at Pikes Peak last year. SOmething like 3 of the 8 quads were running FMF's with the highest horsepower Banshee running the FMF's. That was enough to convince me of their power. I was also able to get a whole "Banshee power Package" for less than the price of the pretty boy Toomeys or Paul Turners. The package included the pipes/silencers, Boyesen reeds, Reed spacer, and boost bottle. I figure the 3 trips to dunes I have made, i have one about 85% of my races, not to mention the gobs of power on tap to climb out of "deadmans" at Walden. If you go with the fmf's you wont be dissapointed..Oh yea, they sound awesome, and the chrome they put on does not look that bad either...
RoostKing...
Posted by: SaMs0nOLD
I just have to laugh when people say the 400ex is such a great quad. First off it ONLY has 27 hp stock! thats pathetic. That kinda power is absolutlely dangerous, because it will cause you to fall asleep from sheer boredom and crash. What was HONDA thinking? do they want to get sued again?
As for the Banshee geometry being bad. It was designed for duning and higher speed riding.
Desert racers like the Banshee geometry better because it handles better than the 250R.
87 Banshee
99 Banshee
Posted by: SaMs0nOLD
Gabe,
The aftermaket companies do make frames based on the Banshee geometery, Lonestar is one example. The reason being is because it handles high speed better. And of course racers wouldn't use the stock suspension because its crap.
As for the Banshee having only 34 hp stock. Yamaha had to power down the motor because of the times back then. To do that they gave it fairly low compression, and extremely restrictive exhaust. Once people modified the motors, Yamaha was no longer liable if people hurt themselves.
Personally I would love to own a Honda 250R because I race Harescrambles now, and the Banshee is no match for the 250R in that enviroment.
But now that Cannondale, Kawasaki, and Gas Gas, are building quads that will be race ready for MX and X-country, the 250R's days could be numbered as well as the best quad for mx or xc. But even still, it would be great to own one.
But I would never even consider owning a 400 ex. You would have to sink a lot of money into the engine to even touch a 250R in acceleration.
87 Banshee
99 Banshee
Posted by: SaMs0nOLD
Firstly, I don't think the EX is a POS. But I am disapointed in the fact that they couldn't improve upon the 250r, only minor refinements. It seems with all the money they made off it, they just simply gave it to the dirt and street bike R&D. I'm just tired of seeing the sport atv sales money being given away to others sports.
If Honda re-released the 250R with only graphic updates, I'd be upset at that as well. I'm glad Cannondale and the other non Japanese manufactures stepped up to the plate to show how its done.
87 Banshee
99 Banshee
Posted by: SaMs0nOLD
Actually the Banshee isn't in the same boat. Because that boat has already sunk like the Titanic with the announement of the raptor.
87 Banshee
99 Banshee
Posted by: guy
Wow a whole 12 pounds! Who cares, for racing I would take the Banshee over anything. But for all around riding I would definately go with the 400ex because it is more versataile.
Posted by: 86atc250r
But most importantly, the frame geometry absolutely sucks on a Banshee.
Posted by: 86atc250r
Fakie - I had you pinned as someone much sharper than your last post suggests.
It was not my point to offend some misguided loyalty you have toward the Banshee.
Stating that frame geometry doesn't affect everyday riding is plain ignorance. If you choose to be ignorant to the fact, that's fine, but don't criticize me because of it.
Yes, the Banshee is fast, yes, it can be ridden hard. But most riders are faster, much faster, and more safe on a 250R or 400EX when ridden at the same level. To me, riding a Banshee is more work, less fun. If I exclusively rode the dunes or fire roads, I might have a different attitude - probably not though, I'd probably be riding my ATC250R or a TRX250R.
Bottom line is: fun can be had on any bike, you can ride any bike hard, some bikes will reward your efforts more than others.
Posted by: 86atc250r
Yep, I get your drift too, I was being a little lazy, it was 3:00 am and I was a little out of character. Probably shouldn't have been posting at all....
Posted by: 86atc250r
Ridzhard - I originally had a post very similar to yours all typed up with some examples and all, but didn't like the way I was coming across, so I deleted, rephrased, and just made some generalities instead. It's interesting that you bring up rake angle, a friend and I have been discussing this as of late on the EX.
Samson:
The Banshee only has around 34HP stock, now that's truly pathetic for a twin 350cc 2 stroke if you want to get nasty. A drag race on dirt between a 400EX and a stock Banshee is a toss up (been there done that), the Banshee will usually come out slightly ahead, big deal... The power hit of the Banshee makes it feel much faster, personally I'd rather be deceptively fast than "feel" fast.
The 250R only output 28-32 hp stock, drags between all 3 are very close when stock. Are you saying the 250R is boring and dangerous as well?
Also are you saying that desert racers like bump steer and harsh suspension at high speeds? Do you know what bumpsteer is and what rake angle affects? A Banshee handles better than a 250R... Give me a break.
If anything they use Banshee's because the twin 2 stroke works well in the sand. The Banshee engine responds well to modifications that give it a very peaky powerband, which also works well for the sand, but hurts in almost every other kind of riding and make it fatiguing and difficult to ride in technical situations as well as prone to overheating.
If the Banshee handles so well, why are aftermarket Banshee chassis' based upon 250R geometry and no aftermarket chassis for any bike are based after Banshee geometry?
The Banshee is narrow too, as Ridzhard states this can be corrected with control arms, but things like rake angle, the width of the lower control arm mounts, footpeg position, chassis balance, cradle width, etc... have to be corrected via new frame.
Poor design does not stop with the frame of the Banshee. I think you get the point...
Once again, I am not trying to say the Banshee is a POS and no one in their right mind should get one. But it's probably not the right choice for most people in most cases.
Posted by: 86atc250r
I don't know exactly what your problem is with the EX, but....
I have drag raced my EX against my ATC250R and TRX250R's, they are faster, but not much (talking mainly stock bikes). I would have never have bought my EX if the power wasn't close to my R, (in fact my lap times are better on the EX than any other bike I have ever ridden, even before I bought an EX for myself). Again, the hit of the 2 stroke makes it FEEL much faster, when in reality, it is only marginally faster. Also the typical argument is that the Banshee or 250R is much easier to extract power from, which is true, but somewhat at ridability's expense. The harder hitting powerband of a modified bike is more difficult to control and requires more finesse. This is not all bad, (I, for one love 2 strokes), but it does have it's downside in a lot of different riding conditions.
Now, on to racing, harescrambles in particular. I agree that harescrambling is no place for a Banshee (keeping your HP on the ground comes to mind). But this is also a place where the EX excels. In our series (which usually have over 100 bikes per race show up) the C class and B class 4 stroke (comprised of nearly all 400EXs, the only competitive 4 stroke) typically lay down faster lap times and overall times than the B class 250Rs (all in all, they are very, very close). The A class is open (2 or 4 stroke) it's a mixture and anyone can win. Don't believe me? [url=http://www.geocities.com/tom250r]Check for yourself[/url]. Results are typically the same at our local MX tracks, in fact, my EX (stock engine) has yet to be beaten at the two practice tracks pictured on my webpage, linked below. Not bad for an obviously inferior machine.
I also agree that there are many new and possibly great quads in our future, but at this moment in time, the EX is quite competitive.
BTW, Ridzhard makes a good point in his last post.
Posted by: 86atc250r
I'm with you there, the Banshee's in the same boat.. The next couple of years should prove interesting...
Posted by: 400exalltheway
banshee are nothing but dunes quads. for mx they suck, flatrack pretty good. get a 250r they rule everywhere
Posted by: 400exalltheway
i have ridden banshee in alot of different places, dunes, trails, mx, flattrack, the only place i thought thewy where really good was dunes, and maybe flattrack, trails they have to much torque with the powerband, mx, their to heavy, . i would take my 400ex(good for i think everything, or a 250r which i someday hope to own
Posted by: 400exalltheway
according to the yahmaha site the banshee weighs 386 and the 400ex weighs 374 so its pretty close. but not close enough go with the 400ex
Posted by: 400exalltheway
well at my first race in the 2 stroke class thebanshees that were there came in last and tecate-4 and 250r made it to the 2nd heat. DON'T GET A BANSHEE
Posted by: 400exalltheway
if 27 is patetic what about a blaster it onlyhas 18 what was yahmaha thinking huh?
Posted by: fakie99
banshees a great everywhere you want to ride them, provided they are ridden properly. the guy that posted above is pretty clueless. have fun...
Posted by: fakie99
and how the hell does that translate to everyday riding?! the banshee is a great machine, when it's ridden properly.
i would rather take my banshee out and jump, corner, flat track, etc. rather than sit around with a protractor analyzing it's frame geometry...
Posted by: fakie99
....the banshee is heavy?
doesn't that 400ex weight about the same? i though they were pretty comparable in weight.
Posted by: fakie99
gabe,
points well taken. however, i might suggest that your response post to me should have been your first post. instead of saying that frame geometry "sucks", an interpretation of how you think that translates into general riding would have been much more helpful. when someone seeks advice on a site like this, such basic statements really are not all that value-added. and besides, we all ride what we like, and we get used to frame geometry, power bands, etc. don't we? one size does not fit all...
hopefully my "ignorance" has now been diminished to some degree. :)
have fun.
Posted by: fakie99
perhaps you have missed the point of this guy's original post. maybe if he had asked what machine was the best mx racer in the 2-stroke class, your post would be helping him.
the banshee is a fine all-around runner once you are used to it's operating charachteristics...
Posted by: fakie99
hey roostking...
what made you go with the fmf pipes on your quad? i'm thinking that might be my next upgrade and i'm wondering what the fmf/silencers do for the top end and power delivery on the banshee. please advise....
fakie
Posted by: ogre
Overdrive Bubba? That reminds me of a really ridiculous story. When I was younger (about 10 years old) one of my neighbors got a late 70's yz 125. Anyway, he was discussing how cool the bike was, describing to me how "when the powerbelt kicked in, the thing really took off." He then proceeded to point out about where physically it was on the bike, if my memory serves me correctly I think he pointed to the yellow plasic cover where the air filter was housed. Of course I had no idea at the time that a "powerbelt" did not exist. In fact, it was a couple years later that I finally discovered that there was no such thing as a "powerbelt," but rather, a powerband. Further, there was no physical device creating this "turbo" feature, but rather it was the exhaust pipe's dimensions (and porting, etc.) causing the backpressure needed to give the bike extra air/fuel at a certain rpm range.
Bubba, that's why your friend's bike's exhaust header looks like a chicken drumstick; has a big bulge by the motor, slowly tapering off. It causes enough backpressure at a certain rpm range to force some of the unburnt fuel back into the cylinder; this, along with the fuel from your carb, causes a boost, cause there's more fuel to burn, plus with the extra stuff in your cylinder - you have more compression.
Now, every motor has a powerband - its just the measure or ratio of horsepower to rpms. Some powerbands are really flat, you wouldn't really feel any "boost" as your motor increased in rpms, but you would have steady power. Some powerbands spike on a graph, in the real world this would equate to your friend's cr. You might not have too much power in low rmps, but maybe at 5000 rmps it would increase quickly in horsepower making it feel like "turbo." That turbo feeling is when the motor is experiencing the backpressure occuring. With the banshee, you will have a similar powerband to your friend's cr, although it might not be quite as hard hitting - unless you repipe.
Posted by: one1drboy
iwana,
They (Honda, Kawasaki & Suzuki) got sued by ****s who thought they would be cool if they bought a fast bike and then could not handle it. Guess what, they got hurt or killed riding a machine they could not control. Well some lawyer saw $$$$$ in it so a bunch of lawsuits were filed and the sport atv's tried to die. Honda quit production of the "dangerous" 250r. Kawasaki dropped the tecate like a hot potato with maggots. Suzuki stopped production of everything even associated with sport atvs. Suzuki is still laying awake at night in a pool of urine thinking about getting sued (they still don't make anything sporty). So Iwana400ex go get a bike you can handle and ride like the wind, but don't sue the manufacturer when you can't avoid eating tree bark or something else really beautiful.
Any questions?
Posted by: iwana400ex
get a suzuki lt250r!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i just got one there awsome why did they stop making this awsome atv and the trx250r??anybody know??
Posted by: ridzhard
Let me set a few things straight. The frame geometry issue is something that few people understand. Mostly, everyone is regurgitating facts stated by biased magazine articles. Here are some facts. The Banshee's shock has less travel than a 250r or 400ex. Do not confuse this with wheel travel. A longer shock travel allows for better damping characteristics as it has a higher oil volume flow and therefore more oil to work with.
Now I will discuss the frame geometry. Very wide where the A-arms mount. This makes for a bump steer problem. many things cause bump steer. Ideally, you want your arms and your tie rods to have the exact same length, and the exact same angle. In a real world, this is not always possible. Longer travel means more problems reducing the effect of bump steer. All quads have some bump steer. The DS originally claimed to have almost 0, but we know this to be untrue.
Lastly, the rake of the frame on a Banshee is 9 degrees where a 250r is 22 degrees. This is important because when you hit a small bump at speed, the 250r's wheels will go up and back a little more than a Banshee, which gives the Banshee a harsh feeling over the small stuff.
Quality aftermarket shocks and A arms will not completely correct these problems, but will greatly improve them. The only other issue is a slightly nose heavy Banshee that you just have to adjust your riding style to. It came automatically to me.
Hope this helps you.
Posted by: ridzhard
Hey, the stock replacement frames are just that, stock replacement. They are stronger and lighter, but there is a market for them because the yamaha frames bend very easily. Anyhow, a lot depends on the rider. A 400EX won a GNCC in the pro division, how was that possible? I'll tell you, every bit of power a 400EX makes goes to the ground. You can have 100 ponies, but you won't win any race because you will just burn rubber. Unless you drag race only.
Posted by: ridzhard
There is a lot more I could say about chassis design in general and the Banshee in specific, but I don't think very many people would find it interesting or useful. As bad as the Banshee is I have to give it credit, it isn't really that bad. With a few aftermarket mods it can be downright great. I am going to make a prediction that the Raptor will have some bump steer. It will be called darting at speed or some other symptom, but it will be there. I am looking at the photos and the difference in the angle between the tie rods and the control arms appears to be a little much. I think they made a trade off for weight savings. The steering stem doesn't come down far enough. Time will tell if the amazing karnack truly does know all. Untill then everybody go to the garage and tell your current mount how much you love it.
Posted by: ridzhard
Well, I just put in a full day of riding and soul searching. I rode my 85 ATC250R 3-wheeler this morning and was thinking "how can I give up this light, flickable feeling on a new machine?" When I came back for lunch I was pretty much gonna start looking for a 250R four wheeler to build. After lunch I took my wife's Banshee out for a spin and really evaluated it objectively. I am a bigger guy (6'1" and 210lbs) so the size and weight of the Banshee are pretty good for me. It is a little more work to 'flick', but it ain't too bad, and the power is awesome. I am thinking about a Banshee with good shocks and control arms to make a perfect machine for me. It is easy to knock a Banshee because the magazines do. I think all but a pro level rider could live with the stock geometry and aftermarket suspension. I'm sure a lighter rider would be intimidated by the power(my wife is a snowmobile racer from wayback, so she thinks it is slow. She is only a dune cruiser, so what does she know anyhow?) but maybe my extra pounds mellows it out. Bottom line, test ride everything you can and then make a decision based on how, where, and why you ride.
Posted by: skull
just wait and get the RAPTOR it should smoke anything made. if you like 660cc of 4 stroke power with electric start and reverse.
Posted by: bubbagodkin
Hello,
I have a 1995 Warrior which I bought second hand and it has been nothing but trouble and although it was cheap it isn't worth owning anymore, and I want to sell it. I'm thinking about getting a Banshee and defiantely want a 2-stroke but I was wondering if Banshees have a overdrive or Powerband like my friend's CR 250. If anyone has any other ideas about which quad to purchase I'm open to suggestions.
Thanks,
Bubba
