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Posted by: duster
Originally posted by: chets440
alright,so as of today i got a 400ex,i do trails and tracks up to 60 footers,i do it all (except dunes) my only problem is im a heavy rider around 250lb,so my 400ex is a little soft and isnt that great on jumps(its hurts)
as far as suspension which one would be the best?and which turns quickest?
yamaha 450?
honda 450?
raptor 660?
suzuki 450?
also ive heard befor the raptor isnt good on tracks cuz its too tall is this true too?
generally i only ride honda because im not in to fixing things except servicing oil,filters,fluids....
which one would i be best with?
also id be buying the earlier editions of all these like 2004 or lower for raptor
no aftermarket suspension advice please unless its under $200
Well, I gotta tell ya... I appreciate you putting up this question.
I came into this with the idea that I would know which way to point you on this one. But after reading your post quoted above and trying to formulate a reply... I had one of those "slap yourself on the forehead" moments... Duh, dunno why that didn't occur to me....
Bear with me here as I reply and you'll understand....
I'm an advanced rider that ended up getting old and rusty.
I used to race quads and dirtbikes back in the 80's and 90's.
So I was tearing up the track and the woods back in the day when the "legendary" sport quads where in their prime and out in force. They cut production of them along about the same time that the really local racing started to just die out of the area.
That was rather discouraging, and I was starting to have less time for that stuff. But I did stay a devoted trail blazer for many more years. Then marriage, family, a new baby and that really slowed down. Then I blew out my back and had to take several years off... which lead to some rust... but not as much as I expected.
Anyways, picked up a YFZ450 and really loved the bike. It's the first one I've ever been on that returned me to the thrill of my youth. The YFZ450 is as close as I have been able to find to 'legendary'. It's about as close to a modern version of the 250R as you can get I think.
However, over time I started to think it was really not all that much of a practical bike for the trails... but as good as you can get there probably in the 450cc class. Although it did well on trails, it also has a track spirit that gets snuffed/wasted in the tight woods... and mine was really set up too wide for the tighter technical stuff.... and while the suspension and handling are extremely good, I found that for me the ride was harsh.
Here's where he BIG DUH on my part is. I don't know why, but I never really thought about how much heavier I am now than I was as a teen. Back then I had a light quadjockey build. Now I come in around 200 lbs... and sometimes heavier in the cooler months when I have more time and energy for riding.
I sold the bike without ever taking that into consideration really. It never crossed my mind. Maybe the extra weight accounts for a good deal of the harsh ride... and my back which will never be 100% let me know about it.
So maybe I haven't been greatly fair about the ride quality... I dunno.
I don't know what the average weight is around here.
But anyways... if you are around 250, you will find that the YFZ is not near as soft as the 400EX for sure. But I am not sure you will be happy with that either. It "might" be a case of moving from one end of the spectrum to another... soft to stiff... and find out the ride still hurts, just for a different reason.
You might be happier on a big-bore quad or maybe one of the Z400 based quads.
I'm betting they would give you a better ride than the YFZ.
I really don't know what a 450R would be like for you. It's a softer ride than the YFZ and a better suspension package than the 400EX has. But to me, it has a push in the corners when it comes to handling.
The LT450R... I don't have a clue, but I do love that bike.
In the end though, you may be better suited to a big bore rappy or a big DS or a Z400.
But frankly... if you really want my real opinion/advice... well I think it would be a good idea to stick with your current 400EX and invest some coin in putting new legs under it. I think you would come out better and certainly much cheaper by doing your research and upgrading the 400EX suspension to MATCH YOU better.
Posted by: duster
Are you still at stock width on the YFZ?
Posted by: duster
Originally posted by: crazy1291
^
another yfz fan i suppose |........2008 lt-r450 got a revalve so its much better for the average rider yet it still is good enough for aggressive ones.
Man do I drool over the LTR450.... reminds me of my old quadracer.
Nostalgia gets me I guess.
So tell me more about this re-valve or where to find out more.
Are we talking low maintenance, etc?...
I'd love to try one because I like everything about the bike as far as I can tell.
The only thing I can think of to dislike is that I doubt it would make much of an all-around machine for ME. I say that because of the width (which is a feature I like otherwise) and because of the 18" rears.
Posted by: duster
Originally posted by: Liarsenic.
The raptor doesn't have bottom end, my DVX will toast one. And in top end, it'll beat me by like 2 mph. The front end on my DVX goes up far easier then the raptor.
I really dig the DVX400.
I've been looking for one locally for a while.
It's a quad that seems like it would fit the bill of a practical all-around ride for me.
The only thing is that the Cat dealers around here are in the Ute business.
So I have never even seen a DVX400 in person.
Did you reply in that DVX tread I put up a good while ago?
Seems the only complaint I found was the seat comfort.
Posted by: duster
Is that pipe and stuff louder than a mother on it?.....
Posted by: duster
Well... I gotta say... I checked out a Raptor 700 GYTR today.
The dealer had equipped it with some aftermarket tires and wheels too.
I gotta say it was pretty darn impressive.
Posted by: duster
Originally posted by: Rocker_Ace
yah, it'd be pretty hard for me to brag about my quad /end quote>
Well... I tell you though... the Lakota is a ball of fun to me.
Over the years I have had a Mojave and a Lakota.
To me they are right there in line with the 250X and 300EX.
A ton of fun on really tight trails where big bores stay bottled up.
Posted by: duster
Originally posted by: LotusPosition
I had the same decision to make about 2 years ago.
I don't race, but ride trails, agressively at times. The terrain here can be very tight, and is very rocky. I wanted a good power band, reverse, and decent ride quality.
I looked at the 450's, but the choice was obvious for me, the 700R.
It has delivered all the thing that I want, and I have never regretted the decision.
It has been dead reliable, and the fuel injection is awesome, I don't miss carbs one bit.
I like your beadlocks and Razr's.
Did you happen to consider the GYTR version at all?
Would you happen to know the differences?
Looks like to me better suspension and exhaust?... and a bonus grab bar and heel guards?
I dunno... I'm just digging the silver and white color scheme.
Posted by: duster
Yeah, I was just curious because I saw the 700 GYTR at my dealer and it had a lot of extra stuff on it.
I wasn't sure where the GYTR package ended and the dealer add-ons began.
After looking at their website, I think the dealer just installed aftermarket tires (Pirelli Race Rail) and wild looking beadlock wheels.
Posted by: duster
I think I already said it... but I actually like that DS you have pictured.
Never seen one in that trim.
I'm waiting on a call about a 650X myself.
It's another with a good chasis and bad engine.
I want to find out if they know what's gone in it and if it sounds like a good project to me, I need to go feel out the size of it and see what I think. I'm afraid I'm going to think it is too big and heavy for my riding.
Any idea where you can get DS650 specs now?
Posted by: duster
Any year I guess... just general size specs, etc...
I got that call today (well sort of) and this one is an orange one. (Baja?)
It's torn down but I didn't find out what was wrong with the engine.
The owners wife devuldged the parts to fix it were too expensive.
Maybe I'll find out more from the owner about this and the asking price later on.
Posted by: duster
I found some specs here on the 2006 650X
http://www.engelhart.com/new_v...21703&Manufacturer=18
It's big and heavy.
Posted by: LotusPosition
I had the same decision to make about 2 years ago.
I don't race, but ride trails, agressively at times. The terrain here can be very tight, and is very rocky. I wanted a good power band, reverse, and decent ride quality.
I looked at the 450's, but the choice was obvious for me, the 700R.
It has delivered all the thing that I want, and I have never regretted the decision.
It has been dead reliable, and the fuel injection is awesome, I don't miss carbs one bit.
Posted by: LotusPosition
There was no GYTR version when I bought mine, the first SE wasn't even out yet.
A friend just purchased a GYTR, they have nice features. Rezzy shocks, heel guards, exhaust, bumper and grab and so on. I am sure the Yamaha corporate site has all the options listed.
Posted by: ZapooMafoo
Originally posted by: Liarsenic.
The suspension on a stock YFZ sucks. The LTR has the best suspension, and if harder to roll becasue of it's width. I would reccomend the Suzuki, the only I would recomend putting a cherybomb on it though. The CRBM re maps the efi giving it more power, and costs like 30$. They only started making them in 2006 and they are reasonably cheap.
not trying to start a fight here.... but according to dirtwheels the yfz has the best suspension (or most tunable) and the ltr has the worst (way to harsh)..... they reccommended upgrading the ltr shocks as soon as you could affored to.
Posted by: crazy1291
how can you afford a new quad if you cant afford suspension for more than 200$? do your parents pay for all of it? cuz thats just sad, kids need to learn how to work if they want to succeed at something in life.
If you cant afford $200 suspension, i would NOT recommend getting a 450, just changing the oil will cost a few hundred dollars per year (for a crf250r, changes the oil every 5 hours, it takes about a quart each time, and its $10 per quart for good oil.)
Posted by: crazy1291
Originally posted by: chets440
pahhh!i probably work harder then u do crazy...can you say hog farm?yeah i know how to work and i pay for all my stuff,im just a little smarter and more responsible than your average joe,i have my college fund and a spending fund and i dont blow all my money so i had a $200 limit because i could sell my 400 ($2800)and buy a 450($3000) that costs $200 more so it would be dumb to blow more than $200...where do you even get off telling me i need to learn how to work to suceed!i bet you wouldnt be able/do half the work i would because its too disgusting for most people...picking up dead pigs,powerwashing out barns, casturating, clipping teeth tails,giving shots....yeah you probably sit in a desk?
srry, i thought you were one of those lazy kids who get everything from mommy, daddy, and grampa- who watch their kid/grandkid each race getting 2nd/3rd last of the pack.
you said in another topic you got the 400ex for your birthday... did you have to pay for it? cuz i had to pay for half of mine straight up and i've just paid off the other half this summer.
no i dont sit in a desk all day for a living. im only a year older than you are, (you said you were 14?) and i also live/work on a farm. I do agree you do have to do disgusting work, (castrating i wouldnt do- with a knife) but hauling dead animals and clipping hooves or tails or whatever isnt bad, same with vaccinating. I'ld say your work is about as disgusting as emptying out chicken barns. (when you pull a hen out of the cage, sometimes the holes/doors are real small and the chicken squirt boiling sh** up your arm or face.... and people think you are emo cuz the chickens cut and scratch your wrists =P
Posted by: crazy1291
^
another yfz fan i suppose |........2008 lt-r450 got a revalve so its much better for the average rider yet it still is good enough for aggressive ones.
Posted by: crazy1291
Originally posted by: duster
Originally posted by: crazy1291
another yfz fan i suppose |........2008 lt-r450 got a revalve so its much better for the average rider yet it still is good enough for aggressive ones.
Man do I drool over the LTR450.... reminds me of my old quadracer.
Nostalgia gets me I guess.
So tell me more about this re-valve or where to find out more.
Are we talking low maintenance, etc?...
I'd love to try one because I like everything about the bike as far as I can tell.
The only thing I can think of to dislike is that I doubt it would make much of an all-around machine for ME. I say that because of the width (which is a feature I like otherwise) and because of the 18" rears.
Oh it was in ATVRider magazine, (september issue i think) The shocks got a revalve because too many riders complained about harsh rides and it was only good for big jumps- supposedly
It also got slightly bbigger tires for 2008 as the old 18" tires weren't quite 18" tall
Posted by: MULEDESTROYER
you might need to loose some weight, no offence, but mx quads dont go so well with 250+ dudes at the helm. this is just opinion but a rappy might be a nice ride for you, not the fastest on the track but it will carry your big ars uphill or anywhere else quick.
only way to really tell is to try the bikes and make a choice from there.
one of my good buddies just got into riding this year, 6'3" 235lb, got a brand new trx400, tried a yzf, predator, and a rappy.
trade his brand new trx for an 05 rappy even swap.
Posted by: MULEDESTROYER
why does everyone in this forum hate yamahas? just cause your dvx cant catch a yzf, dont get mad and bash an inovative and creative company like yamaha.
i dont see anyone picking on arctic cat (maybe ite too easy).
and its not just dirt wheels saying good tyhings about yamaha!
Posted by: DVXDUDE
Dirtwheels always says Yamaha is the best. I hate that magazine now. All of their tests and shootouts don't mean sh*t as far as im concerned.
yes caturating pigs isnt fun. I've seen my dad do it many times. throw the lil piggy head first into a rubber boot and SNIP ...all done hahaha
Posted by: imsam77
the raptor would be a much better trail bike, it's got loads of torque and reverse...as for the yfz, it's more for racing, jumping, and being light and fast, depending upon the rider the raptor will probably jump the line faster b/c of it's torque and weight, but think about it, are you going to race and jump, or trail ride that's the decision you have to make, not which will be faster in a drag, frankly that doesn't matter. It's all about what you like, after all you will be the one that rides it.
Posted by: imsam77
o another thing, the raptor's center of gravity is higher and it's heavier, so that could be a bad thing too.
Posted by: bigned1904
i whould not recomand the 660 raptor but the 700 is very nice. the problem here is the 450 will get the 700 on the track but the 700 will do much much better on the trails. this is very hard because you kind of want oppasate engines and frames for trailriding and track racing. i think you whould really like the 700 but you whould have to buy much newer and if that is not a option i whould but the yfz450 and btw there is no 2004 or below suzuki 450
Posted by: bigned1904
ya the 450r and the yfz450 are both good quads i whould go with the one you can get a better deal on.
Posted by: bigned1904
not a lot. the suspestion on both is very good. i think the engine of the yamaha yfz450 is better than i honda 450r engine imp.
Posted by: bigned1904
in atv action mag this month there is a 450 shootout.
Posted by: bigned1904
and liarsenic if you whould read the ltr450 is not even a option for him b/c he wants a pre-2005 model. and i dont know how you chould say the suspestion on the yfz sucks. i have ridden them and i love them.
Posted by: bigned1904
right now yamaha is pushing up the bar on almost every quad they come out with it seems to me. first the yfz450 then the raptor 700 even the 250 raptor is uping the stakes in that department.
Posted by: SilverBomb
Originally posted by: Liarsenic.
The raptor doesn't have bottom end, my DVX will toast one. And in top end, it'll beat me by like 2 mph. The front end on my DVX goes up far easier then the raptor.
What raptor are you talking about? The 660 will beat your'e dvx any day and as far as the 700 goes you won't see him for long because he will be smoking you no matter what you do with your dvx. I've ridden built 400's and they don't even compare to the big bores.
Posted by: SilverBomb
To finish my comment, go get yourself a raptor and be done. Fast, more reliable than any 450, fuel injected, and a great all around machine. And you are right Rocker pretty silly argument but I hate to hear kids argue because "what they have" is the best and fastest machine. Anyway Good Luck on deciding what to get.
Posted by: chets440
alright,so as of today i got a 400ex,i do trails and tracks up to 60 footers,i do it all (except dunes) my only problem is im a heavy rider around 250lb,so my 400ex is a little soft and isnt that great on jumps(its hurts)
as far as suspension which one would be the best?and which turns quickest?
yamaha 450?
honda 450?
raptor 660?
suzuki 450?
also ive heard befor the raptor isnt good on tracks cuz its too tall is this true too?
generally i only ride honda because im not in to fixing things except servicing oil,filters,fluids....
which one would i be best with?
also id be buying the earlier editions of all these like 2004 or lower for raptor
no aftermarket suspension advice please unless its under $200
Posted by: chets440
ok thank you but the 700 is too much money,and my kind of trails are more wide open so id rather have a mx quad that can turn nice and jump nice for my weight
Posted by: chets440
wats the diff. between 450r and yzf450?
Posted by: chets440
pahhh!i probably work harder then u do crazy...can you say hog farm?yeah i know how to work and i pay for all my stuff,im just a little smarter and more responsible than your average joe,i have my college fund and a spending fund and i dont blow all my money so i had a $200 limit because i could sell my 400 ($2800)and buy a 450($3000) that costs $200 more so it would be dumb to blow more than $200...where do you even get off telling me i need to learn how to work to suceed!i bet you wouldnt be able/do half the work i would because its too disgusting for most people...picking up dead pigs,powerwashing out barns, casturating, clipping teeth tails,giving shots....yeah you probably sit in a desk?
Posted by: Liarsenic.
The suspension on a stock YFZ sucks. The LTR has the best suspension, and if harder to roll becasue of it's width. I would reccomend the Suzuki, the only I would recomend putting a cherybomb on it though. The CRBM re maps the efi giving it more power, and costs like 30$. They only started making them in 2006 and they are reasonably cheap.
Posted by: Liarsenic.
Yes, but take this into thought. It also says in Dirtwheels, that a stock Z400 goes 62 MPH. I know 3 guys with YFZ's and they hate the suspension. I know 2 other guys with LTR's, They absolutely love it. It has the longest travel, and once the CRBM is installed will do circles around the other 450's.
Posted by: Liarsenic.
The raptor doesn't have bottom end, my DVX will toast one. And in top end, it'll beat me by like 2 mph. The front end on my DVX goes up far easier then the raptor.
Posted by: Liarsenic.
Originally posted by: duster
Originally posted by: Liarsenic.
The raptor doesn't have bottom end, my DVX will toast one. And in top end, it'll beat me by like 2 mph. The front end on my DVX goes up far easier then the raptor.
I really dig the DVX400.
I've been looking for one locally for a while.
It's a quad that seems like it would fit the bill of a practical all-around ride for me.
The only thing is that the Cat dealers around here are in the Ute business.
So I have never even seen a DVX400 in person.
Did you reply in that DVX tread I put up a good while ago?
Seems the only complaint I found was the seat comfort.
hmm, maybe. I don't know. But the seat isn't uncomfortable for me. Just don't thinkl about it, and it doesn't bother you. but my dvx has beaten 450's. the thing hauls for only having 400$ into it.
Posted by: Liarsenic.
On my DVX?
Yeah, it is crazy loud. like 12 gague shot loud.
Posted by: Liarsenic.
Not stock.
They'll beat me wit hbigger tires on them,
but that's the only way.
Posted by: Liarsenic.
I know three guys with YF's and all three of them have horible mechanical issues.
Posted by: Rocker_Ace
the yfz and the trx are just about even i'd say, they are both the most reliable and easy to work on 450s too, honda is the engine company after all, and yamaha's been in the sport quad business for a long time too, either would be a good choice for flat-out torque, dont count out the fuel injected quads either, just test-drive some and see what you like
Posted by: Rocker_Ace
This isnt getting us anywhere, we're trying to give this guy an idea of what he should get, not complain whether an arctic cat 400 can beat a raptor 700, i can say i have heard more ridiculous arguments, but this one is still pretty goofy, but try to stay more on topic
Posted by: Rocker_Ace
yah, the raptor 700 is a very impressive machine, the se models even more so, with the better suspension, i've never driven anything as torquey as an se raptor 700, i must say, it would definetly be the best choice for you
Posted by: Rocker_Ace
yah, it'd be pretty hard for me to brag about my quad
Posted by: Rocker_Ace
I was surprised when I saw the Lakota a couple years ago, I had been looking for a 300 sport quad and i had to choose between the lakota and the 300EX, apparently the lakota was supposed to be a sport utility quad, but the only utility on it was the racks, and i took those off, the whole chassis is sport, it even has a chain drive, but anyways, I'm older now and something with a bigger engine would be nice, and a found this DS 650 at a can-am dealer, it'll do just fine
<-----------------------
Posted by: Rocker_Ace
what year DS650?
Posted by: Rocker_Ace
well that goes without saying, the DS650s are huge beasts, but they have amazing loads of power, surprisingly enough
Posted by: Suzuman450
ive got the ltr 450 and absolutey love the suspension. the only thing that dirt wheels said about it was about the front shock being a little harsh in whoops but i notice nothing. the suspension is by far the best out of the trx and yfz ive ridden both. the suzuki is where its at but if youre riding trails bigger tires are a must. its really low. crbm, pipe and airbox lid removed ltr really does run circles around the rest but recomend the bigger tires if youre going the suzuki route.
Posted by: cencalfatboy
Not to start trouble either, but I personally own a YFZ 450, and I am 5'9" 250 pounds of fatboy, and I love my bike. I rode the LTR 450, the 700 RAPTOR, and the trx 450, as well as the KFX 450. The YFZ is the best bike out there. I does it all. But I will agree that the all around suspension package goes with the raptor. I jump, drag, race, wheelie, and have no problems at all smoking young skinny guys on what they think are their fast bikes. In the stretch, 5th gear pinned the raptor will beat me. But I can't complain. The honda 450 is a great bike also, and has more clearance for the trails, but just put some armor on, and the yfz will out perform the honda on the trails too. Also consider the raptor is taller, heavier, and have fun keeping the front end down. Hope this helps. Fur
Posted by: give me a break
I find this topic very funny BOTTOM LINE machines only make up so much off the story yes mods are important and with that i will tell you a story to many times i have flown by every thing under the sun simply because i shocks 2500 hundred shock kit and some IMS roll foot pegs make me faster then any stock ride over the woops down the knarly hills and up the knarly hills . my best all time story was a day ride at a local park i ride at in claifornai this guy had his yfz all moded and pimped out nice machine for sure very fast BUT after the first lap i went by him like a bat out fo hell on my 660 lightly moded where it counts . so later needles to say he says to me what the hell do you got in that thing and i said other then CT sonice pipe jet kit and lid off and the above mentioned mods nothing and he looks at me and says how the hell did you blow past me and i siad bigger balls and bigger forarms oh plus i run 7 to 10 miles every day .
SO THE MORAL of this story is yes the machines can only do so much but after that it's up to you the machine and how well it runs means the differnce between smoking some one or just riding with them I run into guys with mean machines but they are out of shape and have small forarms and small balls if thats you it don't matter what you sit on i will run past you in 4th gear over the woops smile and wave as i shift into 5th
