Pages: 1
Posted by: reconranger
The Scrambler is heavy and CLUMSY! Put just one turn in the race, and the Scrambler will be left in the dust............
Polaris knows nothing about quad handling!
Posted by: Scootergptx
Looks like schools out in Indiana.
Posted by: Scootergptx
Quote
Originally posted by: pimpin300ex
Well if I flunked shop then I wouldn't be working at an automotive mechanics shop at 15 years old now would I.
We all know toilets don't clean themselves.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
I know a moderately modded scrmbler will spank an EX in a drag. But they don't scare me at all on the trails.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Think he flunked shop?
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Modded 400 would put out 3-4 times the HP as a 300ex. I don't care if it is a tank. You wouldn't stand a chance.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
http://www.aaenperformance.com/Power400.asp
Just to give you an idea of what we're talking about.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Quote
Originally posted by: Carbonfist
My younger brother had the exact same year 400EX, and it suffered from the exact same lame torque.
The EX is KNOWN for it's great low end torque. Every EX I've been on will climb straight up in 3rd and yours wouldn't make it up the bunny slope in 2nd? Give me a break. I've spent a lot of time on a Yammi 350 and it isn't half the quad an EX is. Power and handling and ergonomics are all hands down better on the Honda.
And as for the Poo-laris being a better multi-functional sport quad? The EX would out perform any 600lb quad around turns anyday. Depends on your riding style and terrain as to what's best. I for one would never be happy with a scrambler, but I don't come on here and blame the manufacturer and call it a pos either.
Posted by: Raptorlegs
Sorry if I half read things. Your long winded posts get pretty d@mn boring after the first few lines.
I'll take handling over who's fastest in a drag anyday. If you'd gone back and read I already stated that a modified scrambler would beat an EX in a drag. I never argued that point. BUT the scrambler is a tank and doesn't handle for chit. If all you care about is going in a straight line or if you think a little more power can compensate for lack of rider ability then I can see where you're coming from.
And the Z's are pretty slow too.
Posted by: Clapper
We don't claim him. You can have him.
Posted by: ss97
Quote
If it is the scrambler 400 2-stroke X H.O. that will kill the ex and also i have seen the scrambler 500 beat the z-400 and the z is faster then the ex so yes the scrambler is faster
Dude no way in heck!
My Father has owned 3 Scramblers, a 500, and two 400cc 2-strokes, all of them had some mods. In fact there is a stock 400cc sitting in his garage that belongs to his friend in Jersey who comes up to ride.
I've raced both and it's not even close, by the time I hit 3rd gear I'm a full length, by the middle of 4th gear It's probably close to 4-5 lengths. I used to be the race starter for the two of them to race, I would drop my arms and let them take off, I could then take off and catch and pass both of them before I tapped 4th gear.
My Father got so sick of getting left in my dust he traded his 500 HO in for a KFX700.
Only a heavily modded Scrammy will keep up with a z400 or a 400ex. Unless the rider on the 400 can't ride at all and can't even bang gears, the Scrambler stands no chance.
Posted by: ss97
You guys have seen some FREAK OF NATURE Scramblers.....
Apparenly the three my father owned and the one his buddy owns are all slower than they should be.
The only Scrammy I've ever seen beat anything was my Father's 400cc 2-stroke that was build up to the hilt. It was a Trinity build engine and the thing was sick, I saw him smoke a modded Banshee on it... but it was FAR from stock..
In stock form anyone who can ride at all would smoke a Scrammy (either the 500cc 4S or the 400cc 2S) on a z400 or a 400ex. This I've seen countless times.
Posted by: BryceGTX
Quote
Originally posted by: reconranger
The Scrambler is heavy and CLUMSY! Put just one turn in the race, and the Scrambler will be left in the dust............
Polaris knows nothing about quad handling!
Seems to me that while your 400ex is scrambling for traction coming out of the corner, the 500 Scramber will be pulling with all four tires. The 500 Scrambler is going to be fastest when you put more corners in.. just for that reason. There was a write up in one of the rags comparing the DS650, thbe 500 Scrambler and the KFX700. The KFX came out last in the corners.. the DS650 and Scrambler swaped wins depending on the driver.
I guess Polaris does know something about handling. BTW.. the Scrambler has more rear suspension travel and equal front suspension travel than the EX.
Posted by: BryceGTX
Quote
Originally posted by: ajd187
Wow there really is a thread arguing this that has several posts.
Guys the Polaris is a 570 lb 4wd monster that is good at....ummm.......
<crickets>
Well I guess maybe it has good top speed. And it's probably excellent at breaking down. It is a Polaris after all.
The 400EX is one of the best all around sport quads ever.
If you drag race them I would imagine the 400EX will lose but in any other race it should be light years ahead. Try taking that Scrambler around an MX track. You'll probably be Scrambling to keep it from tipping as you two wheel through corners.
I don't ride MX tracks. I would guess that most riders that come to this site do not ride MX tracks. We ride real trails, with real trees, bumps, roots, rocks, corners and hills. So I am not sure where this MX stuff is coming from. To suggest than any one quad is the best in all terrain seems presumptuous. I would guess that the scrambler will have the advantage when it can put its 4wd to use. That will not happen only in the mud holes. It will happen in many low traction situations.
Posted by: XtremeSkier
400ex is allllitle bit faster
i raced a 04 ex w/HD tires, rims, and a HMF pipe
i kept up till he hit about 4th, then he slowly pulled away...that was on gravel and we never raced on the road
i've also raced a scrambler 400 and he had a RCR pipe on it..and mine is piped to so same mods
we were neck and neck the whole time until we ran out of road and we were almost topped out..
Posted by: XtremeSkier
Quote
Originally posted by: ajd187
Wow there really is a thread arguing this that has several posts.
Guys the Polaris is a 570 lb 4wd monster that is good at....ummm.......
<crickets>
Well I guess maybe it has good top speed. And it's probably excellent at breaking down. It is a Polaris after all.
The 400EX is one of the best all around sport quads ever.
If you drag race them I would imagine the 400EX will lose but in any other race it should be light years ahead. Try taking that Scrambler around an MX track. You'll probably be Scrambling to keep it from tipping as you two wheel through corners.
there not tippy at all if u know how to ride them
Posted by: XtremeSkier
Quote
Originally posted by: Raptorlegs
http://www.aaenperformance.com/Power400.asp
Just to give you an idea of what we're talking about.
that outa shut every1 up
scrammy 400's that are modded are fast, end of story
Posted by: spyder6
400 scramblers can be easly made to push 80+ horsepower reliably
Posted by: spyder6
Quote
Originally posted by: reconranger
The Scrambler is heavy and CLUMSY! Put just one turn in the race, and the Scrambler will be left in the dust............
Polaris knows nothing about quad handling!
say that to the predator
Posted by: spyder6
to be able to confidently say that a 300ex beat a scrambler 400 would require that the scrambler 400 wasnt actually moving at all. because i can confidently say that there isnt much out there that cant beat a 300ex
Posted by: MenageAquad
The 400 Scramblers (2 strokes) can really be made to scream. The stock ones are somewhat limited. They don't handle like a light sport quad (like the EX) by any means though.
Posted by: YFZracer12
If it is the scrambler 400 2-stroke X H.O. that will kill the ex and also i have seen the scrambler 500 beat the z-400 and the z is faster then the ex so yes the scrambler is faster
Posted by: Hoopie
I just watched 2 weeks ago a modified 2000 scrambler 400 with clutch kit, HSP exhaust, and porting beat the brp 800 max on pavement by 2 quad lengths in 200 yards. (about 55 hp for the scram) a stock 400 will beat a stock 400ex in a drag but not on any race course.
Posted by: Hoopie
Quote
Originally posted by: 88mxR
Scramblers are tall and heavy, but they can easily be ported and piped to outrun banshees. Still you still have a heavy and tippy quad. Exs handle OK, but they don't have much for power.
Drag race and mud - scrambler
anything else - 400ex
The handling on a predator isn't very good either.
I agree on the above but you obviously have no idea what your talking about on the predator.
Posted by: Hoopie
I can tell you never rode one. I use to have a honda 86 250r with plus 2's front and rear quad also so i know what your comparing it too. I beleive there may still be a pic in my pictures of it. It doesnt slide as good as the 250r because its not as low to the ground and heavier but it does handle very awesome. All around way better than the stock shocks of the 250r. If you have Elka's or other comp shocks on the 250R the 250R is better. its the best Stock handling quad I've ridden besides the new suzuki lt450.
Posted by: Hoopie
The 400ex can be fast enough to get up any hill with riding skills and can be modified to be fast enough to have fun on by anyone unless your a big boy. It will never compare to a 450r but its not a bad quad at all. People have raced that quad succesfully for years. The fact is though stock for stock a scrambler has more HP and will win in a drag.
Posted by: Hoopie
carbonfist, You have a nice taste in quads. i use to have a 86 250r and at one time a suzuki 250r also. I always love 2 strokes but I sold both of my two strokes over the last year 86 250r and 2000 scramber 400 to get new 4 strokes. i think i still have a pic in my pictures of it. I admit im not a honda fan but at least they had the balls to create a sportquad after the 250r to replace it and stock for stock they had the same hp as a 250r. I still think the honda 400ex is one of the best basic trail quads out there. all the new ones are made only to be driven fast. You can even let out the clutch unless your going 8 mph until gearing changes.
That what makes the scram and honda great trail quads that are sporty enough to have fun on is that you can still ride slow on them and have fun and dont have to rebuild them every 100 to 200hrs like the 450's.
Posted by: BlasterBoy66
Which would win a stock 2002 honda 400ex vs. a stock polaris scrambler?????
Posted by: ajd187
Wow there really is a thread arguing this that has several posts.
Guys the Polaris is a 570 lb 4wd monster that is good at....ummm.......
<crickets>
Well I guess maybe it has good top speed. And it's probably excellent at breaking down. It is a Polaris after all.
The 400EX is one of the best all around sport quads ever.
If you drag race them I would imagine the 400EX will lose but in any other race it should be light years ahead. Try taking that Scrambler around an MX track. You'll probably be Scrambling to keep it from tipping as you two wheel through corners.
Posted by: ajd187
Quote
Originally posted by: XtremeSkier
Quote
Originally posted by: ajd187
Wow there really is a thread arguing this that has several posts.
Guys the Polaris is a 570 lb 4wd monster that is good at....ummm.......
<crickets>
Well I guess maybe it has good top speed. And it's probably excellent at breaking down. It is a Polaris after all.
The 400EX is one of the best all around sport quads ever.
If you drag race them I would imagine the 400EX will lose but in any other race it should be light years ahead. Try taking that Scrambler around an MX track. You'll probably be Scrambling to keep it from tipping as you two wheel through corners.
there not tippy at all if u know how to ride them
Thanks for making my point. I know they aren't tippy if you know how to ride them. But that "how to ride them" part probably consists of sitting up on the gas tank, using tons of body english in turns, etc. I'm talking about tight turns on an MX track, not big sweeping corners. I know how to move a monster machine through sutff like that because I used to do it on my KFX700, which is similar in size to the Scrambler. I know how to do it but I also know it sucks.
Posted by: way2fst
do scramblers all have those single a arms???
if they do.....
i wouldnt go near one
Posted by: 468bbc
Quote
Originally posted by: ridefastorbelast
hey.. i own an 400ex .. and my friend owns a 400 scrambler... we always ride together... and no way it beat me... on a drag... is he front of me till i hit 2nd and sometime 3rd depand of wat were dragging.... top end he does 108km-h.. and that equal me when im 5th gear maybe half throttle maybe less... would smoke him about like 10 quad lenght on top end if not even more... and now with my pipe... well he's lost hehe
so yee and even trails.. ive try is quad and it the worst machien to ride in trails... so tipsy and no control... especially in winter.. that the worst
so no way a scrabler will beat a ex
anywyas sry for my grammar im a french kid lol
This is why we make fun of Canadians. In no way will you beat a 400L 2X4 Scrambler or TB bone stock in a drag. The only chance you have is a lots of boring and all the goodies to go with it. And thats edging in it in drag then.
Posted by: jonnyyellow
are the scramblers that good.. they seem so tippy as they stand so high up.. and they look really udly IMO.. realllly ugly.. haha
Posted by: xFreebirdx
Quote
Originally posted by: Scootergptx
Quote
Originally posted by: pimpin300ex
Well if I flunked shop then I wouldn't be working at an automotive mechanics shop at 15 years old now would I.
We all know toilets don't clean themselves.
LMFAO. =]
Posted by: Carbonfist
For what it's worth; I currently have an 05' Scrambler 500 4x4. Mods to the quad are only a TEAM roller clutch and related springs and fly weights, HSP box mod ( Just because it looks better than the other box mods I've seen) and a E SERIES slipon and related jetting. There are several other mods, but none that would change speed and performance. Anyway, I just recently got rid of my 400EX that I had for a few years, but it was like new as I seldom ever rode it. I hated how tall the gears were (Especially second) from the factory. Changing sprockets obviously would have helped some, but I just never got around to it. I've also had three 350 Warriors in the past, and I have to say that all were much better hill quads than the 400EX ever was! The 400 sucked using my normal second gear powering up a hill...if I didn't keep it pinned that lousy thing would find me headed backwards down the hill! It just flat does not have the right balls to gear ratio! My younger brother had the exact same year 400EX, and it suffered from the exact same lame torque.
That said, even before adding the limited mods to my Scrambler, my Scram would take mine and my brothers 400EX, from bottom all the way through the top. We ride about three miles on our county roads to get to WhiteRiver here in Indy, and have done the particular drag race more times than I can count! For those who say one " SMOKES" the other, I will only say that's just not so...it's fairly close, but the Scram wins every time, from take-off to top-out.
However, my buddy has a DVX 400 ( LTZ 400, KFX400 ) and from the take-off and until he gets fourth gear we're pretty much side by side, but then the DVX finds it's legs and wind and pretty much spanks me. And so then I request to go home and get my brand new 450R that now sits were my lame 400EX used to, and run again, and he always declines!
Guys, the Scrambler never was intended to be a "SPORT RACER" Can anyone here say " APPLES and ORANGES"? Of course it's not going to do MX. What it will do, better than ANY other quad on the planet, is SPORT 4x4. And the fact that it can run with a hand-full of mid-range Sport Quads in certain situations, says so much for it. And it certainly does one heck of a better job at multi-sport than the lame 400 EX does at ANYTHING! I've loved Honda for years, but they had their heads up their butt when they engineered the 400EX. The 450 R is a whole other story, and one that makes-up for the 400EX blunder, and so I had to have one. Now, I'm climbing anything and everything! And if it snows, or I want fast rocks and mud and logs ( And Deer...TeeeHeee) I climb-on the Scram.
The 300EX...Yup, my daughter has one, and she's bored with it! :-)
PS I guess maybe I should have kept the 400EX for my daughter, but I wouldn't want her to get passed by the PIMP'S blistering 300EX...someone get me some oxygen - I'm dying over here!
Posted by: Carbonfist
Oh, and not to go-on about the 300EX, but I also have a 2000, big, lumbering, racked-out, and sporting a WARN 2.5ci winch, Sportsman that I use only to Deer hunt and deep mud with. Mods to that quad are only HSP Exhaust (Junk...Has blown apart on me three times now. The entire can is now being held together with no less than twenty sheetmetal screws!!!. The bends in the head-pipe were not even close to being correct. The danged thing leaked at the spring joint like crazy. I finally cut the pipe and re-shaped and tigged it, and now it at least doesn't leak anymore!), HSP box mod, and white spring. That sportsman, that will only wheelie if you jerk your brains out on the bars, or if you put it in low range, will out-run my daughters 300EX that is in near brand new condition!...Oh My!!!
Posted by: Carbonfist
Hoopie: I agree that with skills and mods a 400EX is an able machine. I have over twenty years worth of ATV skills. My first quad was the first production ATV( 4 Wheel )... 84' Suzuki. My second quad was a 86' Fourtrax 250r...eventually tricked. My next quad was a radical Suzuki 250R, and to date is/was still the most nasty quad I've ever set my butt on. The mods to that quad were every single race mod out at the time, including a Duncan/Turner signature engine. I lost that quad and a good friend of mine one day when he wanted to run it out across a rested bean field...a coyote came out of the woodline and in an attempt to miss it he lost control at what was probably in excess of 80 mph...I'll spare you the details. My next quad was the last of the 250R fourtrax...89'. Only, it was 93' when I aquired it, and wasted no time about tricking that one too. All the while I had kept a Warrior around because of the fact that it was so reliable, and had the perfect mix of torque and gearing, which allowed for stable powering up a hill without the need to stay in the top of the powerband. A well designed and balanced four-stroke thumper will allow you to do that, all of which the 400EX was not. Yes, if you wanted to always have to keep the RPM's up like you were on a two-stroke, you can make a 400 EX respond and climb about anything, but then, does this not defeat the concept of a four-stroker? As far as mods, well, you can mod an EATON and make it do things better, but then this thread was stock for stock. Yes, the 400EX has been a contender for a number of years, but considering how long it was basically the only quad in it's class, this isn't so impressive. When the other manufacturers finally got around to also putting out 400s ( Which basically are all a SUZUKI ) the 400 EX get's nothing but bloodied noses...every picture tells a story.
Posted by: Carbonfist
I'm sorry folks, but that 400 EX was a sore-spot for me. Not so much because of the money I wasted on it, as I made most of it back when I sold it, but because Honda let me down with that one. They were so worried about the law suites they endured with the 250R, they produced and marketed a sub-par quad, and we all know they have the technology to produce the very meanest machine on the planet. Even with the 450R I believe they are still holding back a great deal, but at least it's in there. I'll spare you all any further rants, but with 100% certainy the Scram will pull away from the 400 EX...been there and done that too many times. Grab about any other 400 Pure Sport and everything changes.
Posted by: Carbonfist
Hoopie: Thanks, but I can only take so much credit for my choice in machines, as someone else makes them...I just buy them. I do agree with most of you opinions, and obviously a bunch of people share your opinion of the 400EX, as Honda only sold a couple kazzillion of them! I guess everyone has their own things they can appreciate in a particular product...that quad just didn't do it for me.
I've now also gotten rid of all my twostrokes except a CR250 that I keep around for when someone wants to go riding 2-wheelers. Two-strokes are quickly becoming a thing of the past due to the EPA and local government regulations. Just about have be on private property to use them anymore, and one day that will be the ONLY way we're able to ride them. I will miss that intense break-neck powerband!
Posted by: Carbonfist
You obviously half read things, and are somewhat a drama-queen. I'm not down on Honda, but dis-satisfied with a single/particular product they produced. Maybe somewhere in your paranoid tunnel-vision you may have caught a glimpse of where I said "I've loved honda for years"??? If you didn't catch that, then maybe you'd like for me to upload some pics of my new 450...HONDA!!!
I never said ANYTHING remotely close to the WARRIOR being a better handling ATV. It is in fact plagued with the same ill-handling as the Banshee and Blaster both. What I did say was that I found it to be a much better HILL quad. For the limited comprehension @ mind, what I ment by that was that it was much more forgiving of lower RPM's while climbing in second gear. Finally, if you really think that the 400EX is a better multi-sport/purpose quad than the Scrambler, well, dude, I want your connection, cause that's some really good stuff you're smoking!
And you can dream whatever you want to dream, but the 400EX has squishy power/torque. Or maybe you just have never been on a REAL high-output machine before? I'd seriously hate to think that you see that quad as one of the torquers, but if you do, I'd like to invite you to my place and I can set you lose on a couple of machines that will give you a new way of looking at things.
However, if you like the 400EX, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't have to like it for you to like it. I guess the main point I was trying to make was that I know for a complete fact that the stock 400 just isn't going to best a stock Scram in a drag.
If you'd really like to get an idea of what the 400EX is missing from it's balls, go ride 400 Suzuki/Kaw/Cat (One in the same, but still)
I won't try to debate it with you anymore. I'm not into the whole internet argument thing. Besides, I've probably wore-out more quads than you're ever going to even sit on, so I'm confident in my assessment.
Posted by: Carbonfist
"I'm talking about tight turns on an MX track" Brother, who in their correct mind heads for an MX Track on a Scrambler?! That makes just about as much sense as going swamping on a 400EX!
Yes you can do a few hops on a Scram, but MX and Scram just should NEVER be used in the same sentence...even the 2x4's. Dunes, baby. And if it happens to be a 4x4 model, well, use your imagination. Scramblers are well equipped to do a bunch of things, but MX is just flat not one of these things, and I'd like to think no one could get that lost in fantasy. Beating on a Scram because it's not MX friendly is no more fair than busting the chops of a Pure Sport quad because it wasn't Hunter friendly.
Oh, and we ride what we have to and when we can, way2fst, and I won't down you for that, but when your quad happens to be an Eton90, you should be perfectly willing to "Go Near" ANYTHING you're able...single control arm or not!!! Just a random thought, I suppose.
Posted by: itch
I have a mostly stock 99 sport 400 thats a 2wd 2 stroke 475lbs dry weight i ride with 2 stock 03 and 04 400 ex's in our winding hilly muddy trails i smoke them easy! when their up shifting and down shifting i'm wayyyy ahead wondering if their lost , they sit lower is right and get stuck in every big mud hole,they need to be in first gear going thru and the sports flingin mud 50 feet ! i pulled them both outta mud this weekend that i went thru easy the only thing i see thats better is their ability to wheelie at highr speeds (2nd gear over 20mph)
just my 2 cents
Posted by: MuddyScrambler400
I have seen a 500 Scrambler race a 400ex and the 400ex got left in the dust. A Scrambler 400 is faster than a Scrambler 500 so the Scrambler 400 would kill the 400ex in a drag race but in the woods the 400ex would pull away.
Posted by: zwc32
my z400 can make "scrambled" eggs
Posted by: quadriderman
i have a 250x all suped up and it has so much power it will beat a 07 predator 500 and piped and jetted 300ex, or 400ex..
i can keep up with a 660 raptor
Posted by: quadriderman
should i buy a honda 250r.
polaris scrambler 400
i am looking for a very reliable quad i need something with a lot of top speed and really quick take off....
Posted by: Eastside
I have a freind and I always win i ride a bycycle he rides a 5000cc crackhammer i never loose. Why is it no one ever looses and they have freinds they always beat? Sorry cant spell never went to school.
Posted by: flyinscrammy
I own a 500 Scrambler and have a friend that owns a 400...... The scrambler beats the 400 off the line every time, but gets caught and passed after about 50 yards..... I'm buying a intake, exhaust, clutch springs, and jets that may fix that. By the way, the 4x4 on the scrammy has come in handy several times while the 400 has to tug and pull his quad in the sand......
Posted by: 88mxR
Scramblers are tall and heavy, but they can easily be ported and piped to outrun banshees. Still you still have a heavy and tippy quad. Exs handle OK, but they don't have much for power.
Drag race and mud - scrambler
anything else - 400ex
The handling on a predator isn't very good either.
Posted by: 88mxR
The sit way to high in the front and they don't corner very well
Posted by: 88mxR
I've ridden yfzs, 450rs, lt250rs, cannondales, z400s, and the predator falls short to all of them. They do handle better than banshees, raptors, and blasters.
Posted by: pimpin300ex
WOW...just last saturday i dragged a 400 scampler with my 300 ex and beat him by atleast 3 car lengths. all i have on my 300ex is a DG stage 1 pipe......u guys are crazzy about the 400 scrammys.....this sunday i am going to line up me on my 300ex and my father on his 400ex and the scrambler 400 and then i will reply again and let u know how it goes......
p.s. i feel to naked on a scrammy 400 with no clutch or shifting...JUST TO SLOPPY
Posted by: pimpin300ex
Well if I flunked shop then I wouldn't be working at an automotive mechanics shop at 15 years old now would I. I prolly know more about mechanics than U. Go ahead put a rider that knows what he is doing on a 300ex and anyone on a 400 scrammy and see the outcome...
Posted by: ridefastorbelast
hey.. i own an 400ex .. and my friend owns a 400 scrambler... we always ride together... and no way it beat me... on a drag... is he front of me till i hit 2nd and sometime 3rd depand of wat were dragging.... top end he does 108km-h.. and that equal me when im 5th gear maybe half throttle maybe less... would smoke him about like 10 quad lenght on top end if not even more... and now with my pipe... well he's lost hehe
so yee and even trails.. ive try is quad and it the worst machien to ride in trails... so tipsy and no control... especially in winter.. that the worst
so no way a scrabler will beat a ex
anywyas sry for my grammar im a french kid lol
Posted by: scrammy5004x4
ive rode/owned both the 400 and 500, raced 400ex with both and won with both machines (same 400ex). currently i own a lightly modded 04 scrambler 500 and a 98 500 4x4, so far they will BOTH beat the 400ex but its close, however my old 400 sport with endless engine mods would kill an ex and smoke banshees (it gained the name "banshee killer"). my only problems were reliability, ive spent alot of money rebuilding the top end, hence the reason i traded in for 500 4 stroke
