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Posted by: skii0
go with the raptor...
Posted by: Bing
i guess it really depends on your budget and wants
i agree with what YFZ660r said
the honda is air/oil cooled
the Z/KFX/DVX is liquid cooled and a bit faster
the raptor adds another 260 cc's
i say get the Z400,,,,,good bike
Posted by: Ozark38
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Originally posted by: motox26
I would say the ex is lacking in the performance department...................................As far as drags, the ex loses..................................while the Z is not going to beat the Raptor, but it will stay with it when both are in stock form.
Will someone with a Z400 race me and WIN so I can understand what this ^^^ means!
As for Zs keeping up with Raptors I'd have to say no better than a 400EX can which don't happen unless the rider on the Raptor screws up.
I'm not dissing Zs (I like them too) but you guys give it WAY too much credit........
Posted by: Ozark38
Dude, the only one that you refered to as "loses" is the 400EX when in all realility the Z isn't much faster than a 400EX but neither one of them can consistantly beat a Raptor. You stated that stock for stock a Z will run with a Raptor but in the same post state that an EX gets blown away. I could be wrong but its just been my experience that thats just not the way it is.
What I mean is;
If you line the three of them up with equal riders the Z and EX will be almost neck to neck where as the Raptor will be kicking both of their a$$es.................
Posted by: Ozark38
Moto - Its all good! You see things one way, I see them another. I agree that most everyone else would agree with you too but I would race your Z if you were close enough ( but only if you had nothing more than a pipe)..........Btw, how does your Z compare to your 440?
Zakk - Either one of them is an excellent choice and you'll have a blast with either one..........
Posted by: khen
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Originally posted by: motox26
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Originally posted by: Ozark38
Moto - Its all good! You see things one way, I see them another. I agree that most everyone else would agree with you too but I would race your Z if you were close enough ( but only if you had nothing more than a pipe)..........Btw, how does your Z compare to your 440?
Zakk - Either one of them is an excellent choice and you'll have a blast with either one..........hr>
Yeah man it would be fun to race, but it really doesn't matter who wins anyway. (Unless it is a sanctioned event! J/K) I would just like to ride with some on here for fun and see some faces.
My 440 runs about dead even in a 300ft drag as a STOCK raptor. Typically the 440 will get 1st thru 3rd a bit faster and then the raptor comes back. It beats the Z by a little bit. Actually this is only when the weather is just right do to jetting, when it is real hot or cold it doesn't run as good.
Zakk, I wouldn't drop the ex from your choices, if I was going to just trail ride I would probably get that.
Wow! Your 440 is rather weak then.. Did you put in a cam with it? What compression are you running? What other engine mods? My Piped/jetted 400EX(pre-416) beat stock Z's and was pretty equal to jetted Z's with slip ons or moded stock pipes. Funny how different people get different results with the same model quad.. I've come to realize more and more that it's all rider if the bikes are even close in power. Of course, in a long enough drag the one with the fastest top speed will win..
Pick any one of the 3 quads and you'll be happy with it, IMO..
Posted by: khen
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Originally posted by: motox26
khen, I have a low-mid range cam, I got it set up for more torque than anything. I run just regular 93 pump gas in it. If I used a different cam or changed the gearing it would be a better drag bike, but that is not what I have it built to do. I ride mostly track and trails, drags isn't important to me. Even if I was going to be a drag racer, the ex isn't the bike to do it with.
I agree, I don't like drag racing either.. but one of the main mx tracks I ride has a looongg straight out of the gates so it's a tough race through 4th gear. With the 416 I don't feel weak against anything I've raced, last trip out I got the holeshot against a piped/jetted YFZ. We were neck and neck through 4th gear but I had the better line into the first sweeping corner so I edged him out. He's beat me more than I've beat him, but it's always a pretty close race and he's a lot crazier(and lighter) than me. I run regular 93 octane as well, I only went to 11:1 compression because I didn't want to pay the big bucks for racing fuel.
Posted by: DC504
I say Z400 or Raptor. Either one will be comfortable, fast, and have good handling, it just depends on whether you're willing to sacrifice about 2 inches of width for some extra power or not.
Posted by: motox26
I own 2 of them and my buddies have 2 raptors so I can say anyway you go you can't go wrong. I would say the ex is lacking in the performance department, but is very reliable, great on trails, very well balanced, and would suit a typical trail rider just fine. But if you want a little more get up and go I would look more into the Z or Raptor. The Z isn't the best at any specific area, but is really good at everything in general. Descent power, well balanced, reliable, and very smooth. The raptor is also a very fun bike to, great power, smooth, IMO a little tipsy but if you are an experienced rider it will not come into play that much and it is a great trail machine to. As far as drags, the ex loses, while the Z is not going to beat the Raptor, but it will stay with it when both are in stock form. But mods on a raptor will pretty much make it dominate in the drag category.
Personally I chose the Z as I like to do all types of riding, track, trail, hill climbing, light tricks, etc. and I feel it was the best quad for ME, but it basically comes down to personal preference and what type of riding you do. Either way you will have fun with all 3! Have fun and tell us what you wind up with.
Posted by: motox26
How is that giving it to much credit, stock for stock, it loses to a raptor, but doesn't get blown away. How is that hard to believe?
Posted by: motox26
First of all, when I said the Z will hang with the raptor, I meant it would be with in a couple of lengths in a typical drag. I ride with 2 raptors, both were stock, and when we would drag they would pretty much stay together until 3rd, 4th gear range.
Second, I never said the ex would get blown away. But it definately will not stay with a Z stock for stock. I own both, so there is no biased coming here as I like both of them. I'm not going to get in a debate over this, but in my opinion the Z and raptor are more comparable when it comes to drags than an ex. That is just what I have seen.
But it really doesn't matter, we are getting off topic, basically it is what you feel comfortable on, either way they are all nice bikes.
Posted by: motox26
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Originally posted by: Ozark38
Moto - Its all good! You see things one way, I see them another. I agree that most everyone else would agree with you too but I would race your Z if you were close enough ( but only if you had nothing more than a pipe)..........Btw, how does your Z compare to your 440?
Zakk - Either one of them is an excellent choice and you'll have a blast with either one..........hr>
Yeah man it would be fun to race, but it really doesn't matter who wins anyway. (Unless it is a sanctioned event! J/K) I would just like to ride with some on here for fun and see some faces.
My 440 runs about dead even in a 300ft drag as a STOCK raptor. Typically the 440 will get 1st thru 3rd a bit faster and then the raptor comes back. It beats the Z by a little bit. Actually this is only when the weather is just right do to jetting, when it is real hot or cold it doesn't run as good.
Zakk, I wouldn't drop the ex from your choices, if I was going to just trail ride I would probably get that.
Posted by: motox26
khen, I have a low-mid range cam, I got it set up for more torque than anything. I run just regular 93 pump gas in it. If I used a different cam or changed the gearing it would be a better drag bike, but that is not what I have it built to do. I ride mostly track and trails, drags isn't important to me. Even if I was going to be a drag racer, the ex isn't the bike to do it with.
Posted by: recon250es
No joke i have an 04 z400 and neighbor has an 03 raptor i can beat him every time
in a drag on the trails and keep right up with him on the street no problem.
Posted by: RAJ
I would say do some moding the the 250 and you could out run most stock 400.
Posted by: QuadLT500Racer
a raptor wont smoke a z thats for sure, but it will beat it
Posted by: YFZ660R
These are all great quads, but here I go. First, the almighty Raptor, it's got power, torque, good handling and the fastest of all these three. Some may say it's tippy but it's not tippy if you know what you're doing. Next, the Z, what could I say, it's fast, the best handling of these threee, and overall a great quad, you may want to this quad if you mostly go duning, long rides, or trails. Now, the 400EX, is a bulletpeoof quad, and a slower version of a Z, it's still a good bike, and now has reverse. So you pick, you didn't tell us were you ride, and how tall are you and your weight. There all comfortable rides.
Posted by: YFZ660R
Your size equals either to raptor or a Z, but you have a difficult one here, since you go dunning, which is for the raptor, and trail riding, which the Z has a bit advantage. I'm leaving the EX out because, it's true, it's the same price as the Z, but doesn't perform as well. Buddy , it's up to you, whether you want a little more power over a little suspension, who with the raptor, but if the opposite go with the Z. Both are reliable if taken good care of. Both are comfortable, and again the raptor isn't tippy. Your choice.
Posted by: YFZ660R
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Originally posted by: yubslow
I'd go for a Z400. They are almost as fast as Raptors and handle a lot better.
The Z handles good but the raptor is not far behind it, it doesn't handle way better, it's jsut a small diference, and the Z will get beat by the raptor period, in a drag, unless the riders are different.
Posted by: YFZ660R
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Originally posted by: no1sportz
If your sole decision of forgetting about the Raptor is because of "tippiness" then you should reconsider. The Raptor is an awesome quad and should not be neglected because it may be tippy. It is by no means a tippy quad. Sure it may be a tad more top heavy than the Z or TRX but we are talking a very miniscule amount. Comparing these machines handling is like comparing apples to apples. We all know that when Yamaha and Suz came out they were basically copying the overall design of the 400ex. Now if you were comparing these bikes to TRX450rs or YFZs...yeah different story. Oh...my two cents...the Raptor will SMOKE the Z and 400EX. Yes I have ridden all three...SMOKE them.
Point well taken!!
Posted by: YFZ660R
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Originally posted by: maxrpm
LOL! Dream on Z boy! The changes they made to the 05s still will never be enough to even come close to matching a Raptor.........hr>
Now don't start thinks like these because there's suzuki riders out there that will get piss of and bash on the raptor, and start a "my quad is better than yours blah blah blah," every body has their dream and I guess that his, staying close to his friends' rappy.
Posted by: YFZ660R
You're neighboor is probaly a poor rider, becauses a Z can't beat a raptor every time, you can beat them once or twice, but every time, you been smokin pal!
Posted by: ZillaRider87
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Originally posted by: yubslow
I'd go for a Z400. They are almost as fast as Raptors and handle a lot better.
there fast in there own respect. but i wouldnt compare one to a raptor in drags. ive seen z's get masacured by raps both stock, and for the post, id go with the rappy, everything the z has, but more power. dont worry about it being tippy, and it wont be tippy. most people say it is becuase they go along with the crowd and never rode one, or they have it in there mind so bad that they just think it is when there riding it. i cant even do 2 wheelers on my buddys rap, but i can do it with ease on my zilla. but i wouldnt say either is "tippy"
Posted by: ZillaRider87
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Originally posted by: yubslow
Not faster than my Z. I have an 05 and with the improvements that Suzuki has made to this model year I can keep up with my buddies Raptor no problem.
lol, unless they turned it into a Z450 or Z500 for 05' i dont think your coming close to rappys in drags.
Posted by: ZillaRider87
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Originally posted by: QuadLT500Racer
a raptor wont smoke a z thats for sure, but it will beat it
when my 2 buddies raced the Z against Rappy ( on pavement ) in a short maybe 200 feet race,. the rappy was ahead by 6 quad lengths by the finish....
Posted by: ubertrailblazer01
if every1s so worried abour raptor tippyness then why not widen it a few inches
Posted by: Vunit
Ok the raptor is the king of the Dunes with its big motor, insane torque, and sweet handling. A z400 is also a great quad for trail riding and the track its got a lot of low end and pulls hard through mid and top end. It's a great all around performance quad. Lastly the 400ex, well it's a honda that says a lot and with its new plastics and reverse i'd have to say it looking nice, it's great for trail riding and just having fun on but it's a little on the exspencive side. If you are gonna be trail riding and just riding around and going to the dunes sometimes out of the year than i would get the z400. It seems like the best deal for you, and if you ever get bored than the's many aftermarket parts for it you will be most happy with it.
Posted by: MikeCamp
IMO the 660 raptor is junk compared to the Z400. The Z will out perform it in just about every category. In fact they did a comparison of a Z400 vs. yfz450 back in 2002 > http://www.atvconnection.com/Features/ATV_Reviews/400-shootout.cfm The newer Z400s have better shocks now.
Now, if you want to compare to the 700r raptor that's another story but the Z400 is still a great all around quad. The 400ex is a good quad too but IMO it fall short of the Z but would be good for a newer rider.
Posted by: MikeCamp
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Originally posted by: Hoyt34
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Originally posted by: MikeCamp
IMO the 660 raptor is junk compared to the Z400. The Z will out perform it in just about every category. In fact they did a comparison of a Z400 vs. yfz450 back in 2002 > http://www.atvconnection.com/Features/ATV_Reviews/400-shootout.cfm The newer Z400s have better shocks now.
Now, if you want to compare to the 700r raptor that's another story but the Z400 is still a great all around quad. The 400ex is a good quad too but IMO it fall short of the Z but would be good for a newer rider.
i think you mean the Z400 to the 660R in 2002..
Guess you didn't bother to look at the link.
Posted by: no1sportz
If your sole decision of forgetting about the Raptor is because of "tippiness" then you should reconsider. The Raptor is an awesome quad and should not be neglected because it may be tippy. It is by no means a tippy quad. Sure it may be a tad more top heavy than the Z or TRX but we are talking a very miniscule amount. Comparing these machines handling is like comparing apples to apples. We all know that when Yamaha and Suz came out they were basically copying the overall design of the 400ex. Now if you were comparing these bikes to TRX450rs or YFZs...yeah different story. Oh...my two cents...the Raptor will SMOKE the Z and 400EX. Yes I have ridden all three...SMOKE them.
Posted by: no1sportz
Gotta clarify what I mean by "SMOKE" before someone bashes me...I am referring to a DRAG RACE...equal conditions and riders (weight, experience, etc.) I am not talking about an MX track. Ok...just wanted to clear that up.
Posted by: ZakkFan
this are the nice ones i was thinking of getting if my mom complies to spending the extra money for a nice quad. i have never rode any of those three, but i ride a cr125 and stuff and i have a crappy trail blazer 250 rite now. i plan on doing different kinds of riding so like all kinds of riding and i was thinking the raptor would be best for a wide variety. any ideas/comments/suggestions?
Posted by: ZakkFan
okay after reading more i am leaning toward the z400 now. its really a toss up. i think i would have to sit on them and maybe ride them if they let me at the place and stuff. i am kinda sure the 400ex is losing this battle but i nee your input!
Posted by: ZakkFan
im about 5' 10" 150 lbs and i plan on riding trails mostly, but there are some dunes which we havent been to in years. i did hear the raptor is tippy, ehich is why i kinda am turned off by it... but i guess its only like that for fools who blast through a berm in 4th gear the day theyt get it. either way i would get used to whichever one i get. thanks for all the info, maybe a 400ex may not be suck a bad idea, seeing as i dont necessarily plan to race.... idk i still need to think about it. anyone else?
Posted by: ZakkFan
wow, this seems like a real toss up. id say that i will ask for either of them and its just whatver i get, huh? its a xmas present, so i cant be disapointed!
Posted by: ZakkFan
calm down ladies... calm down.
so i went to the sho today and checked out the raptor and the z400. i only saw a 2002 used raptor 660 but it looked in perfect condition. and god damn that is the sweetes looking quad ever. i kinda didnt even want the z after seeing that rappy. anyways, my mom is going back saturday to see if she can get financing. i will tell her its between that raptor and a z400
Posted by: maxrpm
LOL! Dream on Z boy! The changes they made to the 05s still will never be enough to even come close to matching a Raptor.........
Posted by: yubslow
I'd go for a Z400. They are almost as fast as Raptors and handle a lot better.
Posted by: yubslow
Not faster than my Z. I have an 05 and with the improvements that Suzuki has made to this model year I can keep up with my buddies Raptor no problem.
Posted by: hondafever
alright i have a 400ex stock...top speed 67mph, and it handles well, my choice is z400 because handling...power...and looks, raptor is the fastest but not the best handeling
Posted by: Hoyt34
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Originally posted by: MikeCamp
IMO the 660 raptor is junk compared to the Z400. The Z will out perform it in just about every category. In fact they did a comparison of a Z400 vs. yfz450 back in 2002 > http://www.atvconnection.com/Features/ATV_Reviews/400-shootout.cfm The newer Z400s have better shocks now.
Now, if you want to compare to the 700r raptor that's another story but the Z400 is still a great all around quad. The 400ex is a good quad too but IMO it fall short of the Z but would be good for a newer rider.
i think you mean the Z400 to the 660R in 2002..
Posted by: DEPOT1
i think the ltr 450 is a better all around bike period. if you're gonna spend money buy the best i bought a kfx 400 last year i was disappointed so i bought an ltr this month way better.
Posted by: hondaguy_400ex
if on the trails you want a 400ex becuse z400s are liquid cooled so they boil over or the run out wicth is a pain so even though it is not as fast as the z i pick 400ex if you mod it out it will smoke a z any day
Posted by: EdKatt
I have both!! Im a pretty big guy who likes to go fast so I got the Raptor 700, my wife is tall and skinny and a little new to riding so I got her the Z400. The Z is easier to haul ass down tight trails because of its better suspension and is easy to operate for beginners. The Raptor goes fast everywhere, but can be a handful on the tight trails if you let your speed get too high. Which is easy with so much on tap! I don't feel its tipsy at all! It will tear up the dunes also. I have no problems with the z in the sand either, just keep the r's up and your good to go. Both bikes have a seemingly endless aftermarket so the sky's the limit with mods! Judging off your size I would think the z would suit you a little better. Either way you'll have a blast!!
Posted by: give me a break
OK to set the record right if you do not have IMS foot pegs and a full new front end i shoks elka what ever it might be you will never keep up with guys who do bottom line with the foot pegs and new front end woops in fith gear smilling at ltz450r and trx 450r and yfz450r is nothing but a walk in the the park plus let say something about egine size it does matter sorry guys lol z400 wow i blow past that crowd in 3rd and 4th gear mostly very funny never mind a nice open striaght away with some nice mid to deep woops um for get it you see nothing but dust as i jump every other woop in 4th gear seeya BOTTOM LINE nothing stock on any machine can compete against full new front ends the ride with these kits is just to dam good not to mention the width up front for cornering ya see handling matters and the nicer your front end soaks up the bumps the faster you can go plus everyody do your self a favor and get some IMS ROLL foot pegs then you might stand a chance of staying on you machine hae a nice ride
