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Posted by: scramblered
2 stroke=top "EDGE" performances,
forever!
Posted by: Pro400ex
OK lemme jump in here. a Stock 80 or 85 only does about 59-61 topped out. a 125=65-70mph and a 250=74-78mph. Its simply put,a MX dirtbike is not geared for top speed,now for asphault drags, a 400ex will smoke a 80 or 125. But in dirt the dirtbike could win.
Now look at the yz426f,crf450,and KTM520,they all reach about 82mph. Plus you can hold a 4stroke wfo,where's a 2stroke,if you do that for too long,your gonna need a new top-end.
Its just that the YZ,CR,KX,RM,and KTM SX models are just not geared for all out drag racing. MX and SX tracks are tight and all,and don't have 80mph straights.
Also, a quad is just as quick on a MX track as a dirtbike. My friend compared lap times of good privateer riders (Nick Wey,Damn Bradshaw,and so on) and there times where the same as Gusts and Farr's and so on,and this was all at Red Bug.
thks,
Pro
Posted by: gaff
The stock 250R is not the most impressive power ride compare to the 440's.
I get in this argument in the chat rooms all the time.
When the 250R is moded like they all are now they are very impressive, but in thier stock form a 400 EX is actualy very close in power and handling.
if I had a choice these days I would have to give the nod to a 4 stroke just on the close to no maintenance compare to the 2 strokes.
After riding each in a full season you will see the 4 stroke requires much less maintenance.
Posted by: gaff
meanigreani,
Kinda out of the loop the last few weeks, but up untill then I believe no 2 stroke won a stadium race nor a GNC race. The GNCC still shows the 2 stroke domminance, but chad duval just won the last one on the 4 stroke.
Not trying to flame the 2 stroke, I currently own my first 4 strokes after more than 30 years of 2 strokes.
My real point here is a stock 30 HP tecate, lt250R and trx250R are very very close in comparisons to a stock 400EX. This is without throwing the 440 C-dales nor the raptor out there.
Now yes in the quadracers moded version they are quite impressive, but lets not throw away the 426, 450R, c-dale440, 440EX, 502EX , 686 raptor and the 770 raptor. Now these are very impressive power rides as well, not your every day 2 stroker is going to have a walk in the park with any of these.
Posted by: gaff
your wrong there. I see well trained riders smoke my self and any other quad I see on a MX track on any mx 80
Posted by: YoDaddy
Well thats getting a little carried away. I know a 80 (dirt bike) won't out run a Shee and it sure as hell won't out run a Zilla.
I know what you're saying though. Some kids see an article about Doug Gusts DRZ 440 or Farr's YZF 440 out running some of the 2-strokes on the track and they automatically think that all 4-strokes can out run any 2-stroke. They just lack the common sence that those 4-strokes have A LOT of $$$$$ put into them and that most of it is rider skill. They don't realize that it is cheaper and easier to make that 2-stroke faster plus the fact that it takes a 440 (4-stroke) to out run a 250 (2-stroke)... generally speaking.
And this is coming from a 4-stroke rider !!!!
Posted by: YoDaddy
<< how do those C-dales accelerate vs. the 250 racers? I'm assuming you've ridden them before. >>
Well, let me put it this way, you would be suprised that a 4-stroke (especially stock) could accelerate like the Dale does. I've only ridden one 250R that was totally set up for MX and although I think it is faster than my Dale, I bet it would be close out of the gate. I haven't ever been blown away on a start unless I miss a gear, but most of the time I am pretty close to the front (which was kinda scary at first since I haven't raced that much. It's kind of intimidating(sp?) to have 4 or 5 quads right next to you and then thinkin about the fact that there is close to 20 more quads right behind you, but I"m getting the hang of it. When I get a job, I'm planning on buying some 18 inch tires and getting a HMF exhaust w/ moto remapping, so I'm sure I'll be getting some awesome starts. Man, take one for a spin, and I garuntee you'll have a HUGE smile on your face.
Posted by: YoDaddy
Well when it comes to motocross, the best thing you can add is practice. The rider will beat the modifactions any day. In a drag, it's mostly machine.
Posted by: warrior007
My son consistenty tromps me on his ktm65sx when I ride the warrior.. LOL brings a tear to my eye.. (hes 9 and beating me allready) but then again the thing wieghs about 90 lbs HEHE
He has yet to race me on the raptor!!
Posted by: Fez
2 strokes for life
Posted by: 2stroke4ever
First of all, I say to you curious 4 strokers, I have nothing against 4 strokes. They're fun and getting better all the time. HOWEVER, this thread I found in another forum simply made my jaw hit the floor and I had to share it. Man, I tell ya, magazines today really push 4 strokes. But I never thought it would brainwash kids enough to even wonder the following question. Plus, I don't even see why it's so important to know. It really is apples and oranges.
He asks:
"What would win in a drag,woods, and dune race the cr 80 stock or 400ex stock thanks.. "
After being explained with obvious logic that the little CR would win he asks an even crazier question:
"what if i put a white bros e series pipe , and k&n air filter on then what would win...
Also if i got a 440kit, white bros e series pipe, k&n air filter, jetting kit, and power bomb high flo header would it beat a cr125 thanks..."
Again, he was set straight. But the fact that that question even seriously crossed his mind amazes me. And I blame the media. Heck, a new KX,CR, YZ or RM85 would probably keep up with or flat out beat any of their 250 to 500cc (2stroke) ATV counterparts...nevermind a 400EX...unless it has a turbo or something!
Posted by: 2stroke4ever
yeah well, maybe an 85 won't beat a banshee or quadzilla ( they're only a few MPH faster than the 250s..in fact the Banshee stock in less than 3MPH faster than a stock Tecate 4) but I wouldn't bet on it. My 86 KX80 made my eyes tear. they don't have a lot of weight to pull.
Not that top speed is really that important to me, afterall, I changed my KXF's sprockets for more lowend but, how do those C-dales accelerate vs. the 250 racers? I'm assuming you've ridden them before.
Posted by: 2stroke4ever
I agree, Gaff. Those little 80s are deceptively fast. Some people look at the CC's and right them off against 400 4 strokes. BIG MISTAKE! Line a stock OR modified CR80 or KX80 or 85 against a 400EX w/ equal capable riders and I'll put my money on the little bike....especially MX. I had a an 86 KX80 as a boy and I've never gone that fast til I got my 250s.
Posted by: biggin
I know for a fact my 400 polaris is not the fastest,but as a lover of all 2 strokes, I must say I love the sound of a piped 2 stroke engine.It almost addictive.ANd the so called "2 stroke stench" does not exist in my sport after it warms up.And that 400 does a great job of carrying 750lbs of machine and rider.
Posted by: meaniegreenie
Just a point to keep in mind...
"250 racers" is not the 250 "R".
250 racers is a general name for all the 250 two strokes. the R is just one of them. Besides, the R has never been known as the fastest or quickest in stock form. It's fame is for it's near perfect geometry and great all round package.
I only say this because I see many people automatically refer to the R when 250 racers are mentionned.
Posted by: meaniegreenie
Yodaddy, I'm sure I would be impressed. I actually tried to get a test ride at my local dealer but they don't allow it. I've heard great things about the C-dales and I really like them. If I had 8 grand lying around, I'd buy a speed tomorrow. However, elephants will wear bloomers before I part w/ my 2 atvs, the R and the Tecate 4...especially the Kawi. The new Kawi and Suzuki 400s seem really good too. We'ew almost there in terms of 4 stroke racers...almost. They're competitve but we're not to the point yet when they blow away a modified 250. When that happens, they've arrived. People should remember that though before they ask what couple of bolts-ons will make an EX beat a motocrosser. PLEASE!
Posted by: meaniegreenie
absolutely. Most kids today are just concerned with top speed however (like they'll ever really use it anyway). That's why I also always stress how much top speed isn't important. ACCELERATION at useful speeds (upperlowend and midrange) is key to helping racers, especially less experienced ones, get the most out of their performance. That goes goes for aggressive trail riders too. Roostin true everything in the woods w/ great responsiveness, throttle response and acceleration...not too mention good handling will go further than beating your buddy's quad in drag race. BUT, for that occasional comparison for bragging rights, stay in your league and don't believe the impossible. Magazines have a job and that is to keep riders interested w/ fresh info on current ATVs while keeping marketing trends in mind. Just because mags don't really talk about 2 strokes anymore doesn't change that fact they still, for the most part are faster...even if only by a little when stock...mods are another story. That's why we're still waiting for that explosive thumper that will run past the modified 250s.
Posted by: 200XRYDER
a CR80 COuld NOT beat a 400EX> Even if 400EX arent that great, theyd walk away from the little 80 in 1st gear.
Posted by: jshtex
YoDaddy.... Did you race at four states last weekend? And there is some skill in drag racing, my son has only raced mx 3 times but he drag races a lot and he manages to beat faster bikes all the time. His skill at drag racing really helps out on the start of a mx race. His bike (400ex) only has a few bolt-on's and he was able to beat several of the expert class riders (very modified) to the first turn in moto 1 on Sunday. Now he eventually got run over by them (your so right about the practice) but to be in third place at the first turn was pretty good.
Was it you that flipped and bent the heck out of the bars?
Posted by: waterfowlmagnet
My RM250 would run 90 all day long! My 225 Merc (on a bassboat)will run 81 @ 6300 RPMS for long periods of time and no wrenches have to be turned on that thing either. The old myth about the reliability of a 2-stroke arises, bull crap 2-strokes will smoke 4-strokes cc for cc consistently, Think about this, bombardier has the technology (Ficht Fuel Injection) to launch a new life in the 2-stroke market. These will be 2006 compliant and bad A$$ bikes, All of the other companies do not want to invest in 2-troke technology so they shove slow a$$ed, overweight 4-strokes down our throats. But look for yamaha or Bombardier to release these within 2 years, They both have Direct fuel injection technology.
Posted by: iamchad2k5
2 strokes will always be better and faster. put it this way, im sure if you matched up the quadzilla vs. a raptor, im sure the quadzilla would kick its butt. ive also seen cr 80's kick other 4 stroke quads butts. especially in a flat line drag. but in a hill drag, the 4-stroke quads come out on top. reason being the weight helps them with traction.
you also gotta think here people. what is the fastest atv or atc ever made? of course it was the tiger 500. its a 3 wheeler 500 2 stroke. its the fastest stock atv ever made. so obveousely, 2-strokes are the best.
