Originally posted by: Tass
"...One would indicate perhaps "leaders" in Michigan opted to focus on state or private rather than try to influence and change the direction of the Federal Govt....."
There was no money in it for them at the federal level...while at the state level; they had a funding cow already being milked dry through proposals such as the tripling of the subsidies to safety trainers (with somehow all other funding percentages 'remaining the same') and several million dollars about to be legally unfrozen that they wanted a behind-closed-doors say about also.
What attraction did the forests have when none of these guys stood to benefit monetarily from anything going on there....not to mention that much of this land is in our Upper Peninsula....far from the bright city lights of Detroit and their continuaslly whined about big city slicker riding area?
"....The second thread is a discussion of USFS efforts to shut down efforts for citizens to motorized access to the majority of the acres on Federaly managed public ground...."
My point here is that bad orv leadership made not only these two issues one in the same; but a microcosm of what was/is wrong in the community as a whole in terms of skewed priorities; a lack of cohesion among the user groups involved and underfunding especially. (we've tried to fund the largest maintained system in the nation PLUS activity in these forests at a rate of $16.25 per user for years with flat sticker sales...if that doesn't shame this community as a whole...I don't know what ever will).
"...I can state that every state in the USA that has Federally managed public ground is going to have motorized ATV/pickup/auto access severely restricted.
Check the national forest in your area.........you will be shocked...."
And I'm saying that no matter where you live; this all happened for a reason solely related to this community's inability to recognize bad leadership when it was presented to them year after year.
And how do I know this?
Because nobody has the guts to talk about it now either and would rather blame 'the government' (and pray tell who are they?) or the "greenies" instead.
These guys know the average orver could care less about any of this....and believe me are expecting a check from each one of you very soon to play the same "every user category for himself" game all over again.
BTW, I'm not disagreeing with you, Tass; just pointing out that Michigan has the largest maintained system out there and was embarrasingly led down the exact same path that many others were just to keep all that money running into the various non-profits and certainly not into the united pay-to-play system that we should have been building (witness what was done with Hatfield McCoy and others in the Appalchias....are any of those places about to be shut down for lack of proper enforcement; funding or a truly organized method of reponsibly recreating on those lands?).
Anybody who has been studying or gotten involved in this mess over any length of time...knows that most professionals and/or just plain 'good' folk have been chased away from becomming involved with these so called leaders a LONG time ago.
Now that the chips are down; they want everybody to believe that the same old formula with outright nastiness spewed towards any and all who dare disagree...should certainly earn them the right to our wallets.
I've given just as much or more than most....and (obviously) they aren't getting a dime more from me with this screwed up plan disgustingly still in hand.
Posted by: blackballed
Muddy4Life:
"..Once again, [as usual] BB cant tell this reading audience of not even a single non-profit instructor who received even a PENNY of this so called ''tripling of the percentage'' fund he speaks of?[NOTICE how he side tracks his lies?]..."
As I described in detail earlier; the above propensity to verbally attack any and all who question even the slightest pressing issues we're faced with has greeted potential volunteers up here in Michigan for decades now.
Muddy won't argue the fact that these guys wasted all manner of effort and resources over a long period of time in leadership's attempt to triple their unneeded training subsidies to the tune of almost 600 grand....as he's more interested in trying to convince everybody that I'm both a liar and actually claimed that they received this money in the first place.
(blackballed's original quote):
"...while at the state level; they had a funding cow already being milked dry through proposals such as the tripling of the subsidies to safety trainers..."
Again, this is exactly why the average guy or gal has been chased away from this sport for years and (frankly) just refuses to put up with this crap on the volunteer level. I can't count how many times that I've heard this "what have YOU done" crap over and over again; as if any volunteer stepping forward would want this shoved in his or her face from the get-go.(amazingly, I even partnered with Muddy on a few safety training classes in my area; so I have no idea as to why he or any of these orv leaders wave this flag in most everybody's face that steps forward).
(Muddy4Life above):
"......Just exactly what has BB done for the ATV sport in even ONE YEARS TIME, except sit his fat butt next to his PC buttons AND COMPLAIN about what is wrong with EVERYBODY ELSE?
Take your mood medicine and go bother another group of uneducated ATVers, cause EVERYBODY in here is tired of your constant lies and BS...."
It's got to stop sometime, folks....as I am afraid that we will never get back the scores of those stepping forward who have been chased away already. (would you ride with these guys?).
Posted by: blackballed
Nobody hass attacked anybody here personally but yourself, Muddy...and I really don't have any more to say about how "I believe" we've lost all this land around the country or what/who (again) "I feel" is responsible for it.
It's my opinion, pure and simple....'live with it'....or indeed keep straying off topic with nothing but insults.
By the way, has anybody noticed that immediately after losing all this land in our national forests due to incompetent leadership...the cycle leaders are now getting support from all over the nation to draft arrogantly selfish legislation to keep the vast majority orv community out here forever off (quote/unquote) THEIR massive single track mileage?
From the largest maintained trail system in the United States (Michigan's only 'quarterly' and official source for all orv info):
NEW BUSINESS
Motorcycle Trail Petition -- Chairman Ranney thanked Mr. Magowan for submitting the petition and
request for a Director's Order to preserve motorcycle only trails.
Mr. DeBrabander noted the Department's recognition of designated motorcycle trails. Last month,
FMFM's Management Team directed the trail analysts to evaluate the trails and make
recommendations to identify trails that should continue to be maintained for motorcycle only protected by Director's Order.
Everybody get ready to bend over once again......
Posted by: blackballed
Sorry, I forgot to inform you all that atvs can legally go down these trails at the present time.
Some have questioned why motorcycle groups have been given so much power by the DNR or why their leaders are given extended terms without announcement to wield said power well after others in the majority should have been allowed to participate in the process.
If the tree huggers in your state natural resource department can keep a thousand or more miles of trail shut down FOREVER to but a tiny amount of motorcycle traffic by a shrinking minority group of riders using a quickly shrinking amount of trails....exactly who has won the battle here?
This is the most powerful group in motorsports literally slamming the door on massive amounts of trail mileage that in most cases could be multi-use and certainly a resource that we could all work TOGETHER on stewarding.
Instead, were asked to believe that this whole travel management fiasco wasn't about simple "greed" or certainly not about our failure to work together on these issues...but by gosh forces 100% out of the community's control.
And I've got some swamp property that I'd like you all to take a look at.....
Posted by: NLWarrior01
We deal with irresponsible riders every may 24th and labour day here too. Most of them when confronted about their behaviors will appologise and then are more or less trouble free for the rest of the weekend. There are plenty places around where you can "tear it up" so it doesn't need to be on congested trails and near peoples dwellings (even if it is a cabin).
Posted by: DrDune
I have an original YFZ450 for sale anybody want it??
Posted by: mywifesquad
Here we go again.........................
Posted by: Wolvydude
Originally posted by: Tass
Your posts are quite clear. Please take a moment to review the posts in "They just closed Factory Butte in Utah" particularly the posts by "wolvydude". He seems to indicate a different picture on at least one forest in Michigan. My posts are an attempt to get individuals to make sure they know what is happening in reference to the Access Travel Management Plan........Then get involved and make some noise. If it is a collective noise making there might be some hope, otherwise it will be as wolvydude indicates happened on the Ottawa and what is currently taking place on the Wallowa-Whitman........Tass
The information I posted in that thread is, unfortunately, quite accurate. I got the information straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. Individuals who were actively fighting to keep as much of the Ottawa NF open as possible. They were there when the ax fell. With a stroke of a pen, the Ottawa went from 90% open to atv travel to 90% closed. Countless miles of old, abandoned logging and mining roads that made for spectacular riding are now untouchable. I will still be there to ride the few token areas of the Ottawa that are still open to atv's, but it will only be a shadow of it's former self. This is a subject I would love to be wrong about, but I'm not...
Posted by: Wolvydude
Awesome info Tass. Thanks for the website.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Most of the regulations are developing as a result of safety issues and property distruction. Do your part! and the issues are not as serious. Ride responsibly and safely and get involved with helping. Education is a big key for these issues. If you can't do anything to help, at least don't be part of the problem - drive safely and don't destroy other peoples property - show some responsibility on your own and encourage others to do the same then governmnet isn't going to have to step in and mandate. It took a few to ruin it for the rest, let these few know that you don't appreciate what they did to ruin your sport. Don't blame government - put the blame where is should be (ourselves).
Here is a suggestion - if eveyone printed just 5 signs on a computer and put them in plastic covers and posted them all over the trails that would help. "DRIVE RESPONSIBLY AND SAFELY OR BOTH YOU AND I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE THIS TRAIL" If just 100 people did that then that is 500 signs out on the trails to serve as reminders.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Here is what I do and I don't care what anyone thinks. If I see an irresponsible rider, riding without a baffel or off a designated trail or tearing up property needlessly, or an under aged child on a trail unsupervised by a guardian, I write down there registration and send it to the Warden Service.
Is it squealing - damn straight it is. And I don't give a rats-ass what people think of that. These irrespnsibles have ruined my sport thus far and I am fighting back and telling them that they are not going to continue to ruin it. And if I can get their sorry butts off the trails then I will. I don't go looking for it but if I run across it I just don't say to myself "It is none of my business what they do", because it is my business. They are ruining my sport and I will ruin their day if I can.
And when the Game Warden visits their house and gives them a written warning, a ticket or impounds their machine or has a little talk with a guardian - guess what - makes them stop and think next time as to who is watching. And it is not just a 'hide and go seek' game with the authorities.
You irrisponsibles have ruined it for me and now it is my turn to take a 'wack' at you. And I am not going to sit idle and allow you to ruin it any more than you already have. So if you can't ride responsible and safely then don't let me see it, because I will turn your sorry butt in. Because I am not going to cry about it later, and complain that government has issued more mandates and taken my sport away.
Posted by: buckaroo50
A lot of Maine is owned by paper companies. For just one example "Plum Creek" has allowed 150 miles of trails on their lands in just the Solon/Bingham area alone (maybe a 40 x 40 square mile piece of land). Other paper companies are doing a similar thing. They have even built trails and bridges for ATV's at their expense. All they ask is that we respect their property and stay on the trails and to stay out of work areas, and they post big 8' by 4' signs designating a 'work area'. They can close it at anytime if they choose too - it is private property. You can fish, hunt and camp on their lands also - keep it clean, don't destroy, take your trash home with you and don't burn the forest down. With people that nice why would you want to not comply with their wishes. But 3 riders did and entered a work area, someone had a cell phone and within minutes the Game wardens, state police, and sheriff's where there and the 3 were caught and their machines impounded on the spot. It just goes to show that there are a few that no matter what, they are just not going to show respect or be responsible. These are the people that we need to get off the trails for good. And I would turn them in, in a heartbeat. I will work with the paper companies to help police or any other property owner that opens up their lands to include the State own lands. It they are going to help me by providing a place to ride then I will certainly 'scratch their backs', and help protect their property.
Posted by: buckaroo50
Originally posted by: Tass
Buckaroo......the current Access travel management plan being put into place has nothing to do with safety or property destruction. It is a plan that does only one thing and that is to deny access. The plan is not just ATV but car, pickup, motorcycle and so on. If put into action (or should I say when) there will be 6000 miles automatically placed off limits to motorized use. In Oregon the USFS is the manager of the public land and "game wardens" only deal with wildlife. It sounds like use might be heavier in your part of the world. The places I ride the only person to see any signs I post would be me. The access travel management plan is nationwide on public land. The miles involved are different but the result is the same.......You will only travel routes designated by the USFS. On the Wallowa-Whitman National Forest we are supposed to be content because they are perfectly willing to designate 120 miles for use.......
Does Maine have National Forests designated? Yes it does. Contact a district ranger office and ask for a copy of the Access Travel Management Plan. I think you would find it interesting..........Tass
In Maine Game Wardens have the most authority, over State Police, Sheriff's etc, they are also Fenderally sworn (federal agents) and can cross state lines. They can bust you for just about anything they want and they can go right into another state to get you too. You don't want to be messing with a Maine Game Warden.
Posted by: buckaroo50
A little off topic but....
All the Game Wardens in Maine that I have met are very nice. More so than some State or Town Police that sometimes have a Barney Fife demeaner with a Gestapo attitude.
Yesterday I hit a check point with Game Wardens as well as several other people, well this one young fellow (20-25 yrs old) did not have a baffel in his sport bike. The Game Warden appologized to them for disrupting their ride for the check point. Cautioned them to be careful, that there were cars and trucks on the dirt roads traveling to and from camp sites and fishing etc. He said "I won't hold you up, now go and enjoy the rest of your ride and the day, and I hope the next time I see your bike there is a baffel in it." To me that did more for the learning process for that young fellow than to give him a ticket and putting a sour taste in his mouth.
You can talk with Game Wardens and they will tell you where the good fishing is etc, if you are low on gas they will give you some gas, most carry 5-10 gal of gas in their pickups. And it is the way it should be. The people like the Warden service as apposed to some other agencies.
Posted by: Baseballroxmasox
Chickenlips... is there a website or paper document or something that I can see for myself. To no offense to you, I just want to see it. Thanks,
Z
Posted by: Tass
Buckaroo......the current Access travel management plan being put into place has nothing to do with safety or property destruction. It is a plan that does only one thing and that is to deny access. The plan is not just ATV but car, pickup, motorcycle and so on. If put into action (or should I say when) there will be 6000 miles automatically placed off limits to motorized use. In Oregon the USFS is the manager of the public land and "game wardens" only deal with wildlife. It sounds like use might be heavier in your part of the world. The places I ride the only person to see any signs I post would be me. The access travel management plan is nationwide on public land. The miles involved are different but the result is the same.......You will only travel routes designated by the USFS. On the Wallowa-Whitman National Forest we are supposed to be content because they are perfectly willing to designate 120 miles for use.......
Does Maine have National Forests designated? Yes it does. Contact a district ranger office and ask for a copy of the Access Travel Management Plan. I think you would find it interesting..........Tass
Posted by: Tass
Muddy4life.........In reading some other posts it seems that the majority of any access on Michigans Ottowa National forest has come to an end. The access travel management plan is the tool that was used........The idea there will always be places to ride if we fight the greenies and the enviros only works if we win the fight......we are not, we are not even in the game.....perhaps it would be beneficial to check with a district forest ranger....Things are not always as they appear........Tass
Posted by: Tass
The Game Wardens sound much like the description of Federal Marshalls. I don't think Oregons are empowered to that extent but I am not sure it wouldn't be a good idea.....They are at least out on the land and for the most part are local residents and not USFS employees just moving through the land till retirement.
We also have large blocks of private land in Eastern Oregon. The largest one being Boise Capitol. They were allowing use of a beautiful tract of land on Mt. Emily untill abuse ( ATV,Motorcycle, and pickups) of the land caused them to change their position..........It is now locked. If individuals choose to violate good manners and common sense they need to be reported, caught, and penalized. If they are abusing the ground they are also abusing us.........Tass
Posted by: Tass
Excuse me for asking for help for a situation taking place in the remainder of the USA. It is wonderful that Michigan takes such wonderful care of its ATV folks........Tass
Posted by: Tass
Your posts are quite clear. Please take a moment to review the posts in "They just closed Factory Butte in Utah" particularly the posts by "wolvydude". He seems to indicate a different picture on at least one forest in Michigan. My posts are an attempt to get individuals to make sure they know what is happening in reference to the Access Travel Management Plan........Then get involved and make some noise. If it is a collective noise making there might be some hope, otherwise it will be as wolvydude indicates happened on the Ottawa and what is currently taking place on the Wallowa-Whitman........Tass
Posted by: Tass
baseball. I will find the site address for the document from then Chief of the Forest Service Bosworth and send it to you. If you read his document you will think "a reasonable man looking for a reasonable solution". I will then send you a site that will let you see what the Wallowa Whitman and others are actually implimenting...........not even close to being the same.........The final insult, the theft of public ground and pubic access.......Tass
Posted by: Tass
wolvydude,chickenlips,muddy4life.
http.//www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/index.shtml
This address will get you to the basis of the complete lockup of public lands.
When you read the statements by Mr. Bosworth it is hard to turn them into the proposal now facing numerous forests in the nation.
The Wallowa Whitman in Oregon..........losing 6000 miles of access.
The Ottawa in Michigan......95% lockup.
Factory Butte in Utah........shut down.
Pick a National forest, ask a question............
Then you will see what is happening........................Tass
Posted by: Tass
There are activities taking place on the Wallowa-Whitman in LaGrande, Enterprise, and Baker City. The USFS offered 2 public meetings in each city. They were well attended and the forest service was given notice the shutdown of 5000 miles of road was not acceptable. 2 weeks ago several of us put together a public meeting, we rented the Armory and 300 folks showed up to receive information on the road closures from 7 different individuals. Kerry White from Montanna is involved in the fight in that state and provided many insights for us. We will have several more of these meetings. We are contacting every Senator and Representative we can, we are posting letters in the local papers, we are spreading the word everywhere and every way we can that this is closure to ALL MOTORIZED USE. The group in Enterprise, Oregon has taken the Forest Supervisor, Steve Ellis on a day long ATV trip. In LaGrande in two weeks we have a 6 hour trip planned for him. I have met with the LaGrande/Union County Chamber of Commerce and they have sent a very strong letter of opposition to the USFS. I meet with the Union County Commissioners in 2 weeks to help put together a plan to stop the Feds. Everyone that reads this can help by sending input to the USFS "team" in charge of the Forest Service planning. YOU CAN HELP US IF YOU WILL.
Please send comments opposing the ML1, ML2 road closures to: wwnf_travel_mgt_plan@fs.fed.us
That e-mail address can be used to request a copy of their proposal and the 24 maps they created of the forest road closures. Anyone in the nation can provide input to this plan.....The environmentalists are already doing so in large numbers. They see the opportunity to basically create a 2.4 million acre wilderness in Eastern Oregon. Want to ride? Want to help keep the forest open to all? This closure is for all motorized use. Not just ATV...........Tass
Posted by: Tass
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
We will always have places to ride in Michigan as long as we fight the greenies and their sister tree huggers. WE MUST ALSO POLICE OUR OWN AND MAKE SURE THEY DO THE RIGHT THINGS WHEN RIDING.If you sit around and WATCH your area's get closed down, your part of the PROBLEM. Get out and get INVOLVED--END OF QUOTE*
Now what part of my original post dont you understand?
I do not quite understand your opening sentence............The Ottowa National forest just shut the riders in Michigan out of 95% of that forest. The USFS used the same process in Michigan as they are now Using in NE Oregon. It would seem that the right to ride has already been dealt a terrible blow in your state.....Tass
Posted by: Tass
blackballed...........They are asking for no increased budget. If they can close down the ML1 and ML2 roads they eliminate the costs they have now in what they term maintainance.
This is a closure to all motorized use......ALL MOTORIZED USE. Not a good guy of bad buy issue, not a resource issue, just a plain ol stay the hell out closure.
I have been using these public lands for over 60 years, There is the opportunity to anyone reading this to use the address I listed in another post and let the forest service know how you feel about the closure of public land. This is not an issue of illegaly riding on someones private property, This is public ground.
If folks would respond to the forest service there could be some hope....Tass
Posted by: Tass
just went back through all the posts and re-read them and took some notes. I believe I am not making the issue in this part of the world clear. I read that Michigan and other areas have great tracts of State land and even some private land that is available for activities even if most of the Federal managed public ground is shut down. It is obvious that in the Eastern portion of the US the reliance on Federal managed public ground is not the same as it is here.
There are repeated comments about the destruction or impact from masses of riders that have no consideration for themselves or the resources or ownership.
########################
The road closures here are taking place on Federal managed public ground. YOU OWN IT,
You and I as citizens of the US own the ground in question and the motorized use taking place is legal and in accordance with environmental rules..
There is little or no option for state, county, or private to be substituted for this Federaly managed, publicly owned land.
There are not the masses of riders here that are described in other posts about other areas. The impact on the ground and to the resources is almost non-existant. I have repeatedly asked the USFS for locations to view or photo's to examine. They have none and know of none.
The roads and access about to be shut down have been built in accordance with environmental rules of the time and were built to support up to 150,000 lbs of load in almost any weather condition.
This proposed closure has nothing to do with poor leadership, trash on the ground, ruts in the creeks, noise, masses of riders fighting with hikers or with other users, it has nothing to do with trespass, or conflict with towns, highways, or policemen. The largest town in this 40,000 square mile corner of the state is LaGrande Oregon with about 12000 total population. The next largest town is about 50 miles West with about 10000 population and another is located 55 miles SE from here.
##########################
This is the issue......the Federal government is about to deny motorized access TO YOU, the legitimate owner of the ground because Dale Bosworth, former chief of the USFS, decided 2 years ago it was a good thing to do.
There are those that choose to just roll over and let the Federal government take away their options and choices.....I am not one of those citizens. I hope some that read this regardless of what state they might be in will excercise their right as a US citizen and legal owner of the Wallowa-Whitman to send a message to the address I listed in another post and express their views relating to the lock up of public ground and the lockout of citizens...............Tass
3
Posted by: Tass
otorsports.
I cannot express how much I appreciate your involvement, The Wallowa-Whitman is yours, you own it as a US citizen.......No one should have the power to even try to keep you from using what is yours.
Input like yours might possibly open up some door for you children and grandchildren in the future. Input like yours might possibly open up some door for MY CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN in the future.
I just watched a program on PBS about the revolution that sent King George packing. It was individuals like you, motorsports, that sounded off, banded together, and took action to make things right..............again..Thank you so much..........Tass
Posted by: Tass
It would seem there are a couple threads going here.
One would indicate perhaps "leaders" in Michigan opted to focus on state or private rather than try to influence and change the direction of the Federal Govt.
The second thread is a discussion of USFS efforts to shut down efforts for citizens to motorized access to the majority of the acres on Federaly managed public ground.
I cannot comment on the conflict within the state of Michigan.
I can state that every state in the USA that has Federally managed public ground is going to have motorized ATV/pickup/auto access severely restricted.
Check the national forest in your area.........you will be shocked.
If I can send them some input, or request some information, or anything to assist any of you in maintaining your right to public access I will gladly do so........
Its time to let the Federal land managers know who owns the land......Tass
Posted by: Motorsports
Originally posted by: Tass
wolvydude,chickenlips,muddy4life.
http.//www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/index.shtml
This address will get you to the basis of the complete lockup of public lands.
When you read the statements by Mr. Bosworth it is hard to turn them into the proposal now facing numerous forests in the nation.
The Wallowa Whitman in Oregon..........losing 6000 miles of access.
The Ottawa in Michigan......95% lockup.
Factory Butte in Utah........shut down.
Pick a National forest, ask a question............
Then you will see what is happening........................Tass
Yup, just when we need more riding areas, the existing ones are being closed up, locked up and shut down. What-ever you call the anti-atv/anti-orv crowd, they has made great progress in closing down riding areas. They have been shutting down public and private trails for many years, they will not stop either. These anti types can not be compromised with, they will never stop.
Take a look at the new Motor Vehicle Use Maps for Ottawa forest and then see what is happening. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/ottawa.../travel_mgmt/index.htm
YOUR Quad will be worth nothing!!!
IMO depending where you live, now might even be too late to sell your atv?
More info on usfs Travel Management & Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Program
Motorsports
Posted by: Motorsports
Originally posted by: squeege
Guess everybody will be trading in on streetbikes? I'll be picking up your used 07 grizzly for next to nothin' right?
I'll always have lots of farm land to ride.../end quote>
Who's sellin' a used 07 grizzly for next to nothing??
I could use a bigger upgrade for next to nothing
Motorsports
Posted by: Motorsports
So it sounds it is ok with the ORV leaders in MI that the USFS is closing National Forest lands to ALL MOTORIZED USE??
Does this sound ok to you?
Tass, I sent an email to wwnf_travel_mgt_plan@fs.fed.us opposing the banning of ALL MOTORIZED USE.
Posted by: Motorsports
An Invitation to Ride
Off-highway vehicles (OHV) are welcome on the National Forests when traveling on designated routes or areas. However, increased use of OHVs has caused resource damage. For this reason, the Travel Management Rule was developed to create a sustainable system of designated routes and areas for increasing number of OHV riders.
Each National Forest will provide a Motor Vehicle Use Map (MVUM) that defines the routes developed to provide OHV visitors with some great riding adventures. These MVUMs will be developed by 2009 for each National Forest in the Eastern Region.
Remember to be responsible towards the land so as to preserve the recreational opportunities for generations to come. For your own safety as well as the protection of the land, please stay on the trail.
quoted from http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/
Posted by: squeege
Originally posted by: Motorsports
Originally posted by: Tass
wolvydude,chickenlips,muddy4life.
http.//www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/index.shtml
This address will get you to the basis of the complete lockup of public lands.
When you read the statements by Mr. Bosworth it is hard to turn them into the proposal now facing numerous forests in the nation.
The Wallowa Whitman in Oregon..........losing 6000 miles of access.
The Ottawa in Michigan......95% lockup.
Factory Butte in Utah........shut down.
Pick a National forest, ask a question............
Then you will see what is happening........................Tass
Yup, just when we need more riding areas, the existing ones are being closed up, locked up and shut down. What-ever you call the anti-atv/anti-orv crowd, they has made great progress in closing down riding areas. They have been shutting down public and private trails for many years, they will not stop either. These anti types can not be compromised with, they will never stop.
Take a look at the new Motor Vehicle Use Maps for Ottawa forest and then see what is happening. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/ottawa.../travel_mgmt/index.htm
YOUR Quad will be worth nothing!!!
IMO depending where you live, now might even be too late to sell your atv?
More info on usfs Travel Management & Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Program
Motorsports /end quote>
They gonna take away the race tracks too?
Posted by: squeege
Guess everybody will be trading in on streetbikes? I'll be picking up your used 07 grizzly for next to nothin' right?
I'll always have lots of farm land to ride...
Posted by: kickass210
hey if we pay taxes why do u really care about atv's. do u call the police when harleys drive by. their a heck of alot louder!
Posted by: ozarkhunter
Originally posted by: Chickenlips01
I am sorry you can't se what is going to happen. Evnviromentalists want the forests closed down to all motor vehicles. Thats going to happen. Go and read the laws that have been passed. Or just keep on sitting there beleaving it's all OK. I wish it was.
And just what are you doing about it? Alot of people are joining clubs and contacting forrest services and government officals to get this stuff stopped.Mabe you should focus some of this energy on trying to help out. If you are I am sorry I didnt know.
Posted by: check
Thankfully, I haven't heard of any closures here in Canada yet, and in Ontario, more trails are being mapped and opened up all the time.
Posted by: Chickenlips01
Laws are changing!!! The trails you ride today, will be locked up tomorrow. Think you'll just sell your quad. Good luck! Who'll buy something just to put it in the garage?
Posted by: Chickenlips01
Being locked out is going to happen. It's law now! Has to be in effect by 2009. All U.S.A. public land. your riding will be very restricted. Better do some research before you loose it. Email, fax, call write letters. Or say goodbye to your hobbie.
Posted by: Chickenlips01
Tass............is so right. Keep turning in people. I think that is great! If thney can't respect it get them out of there. But you have all ready lost your right to ride on public land. Thats right lost the right! Check it out like Tass said.
Posted by: Chickenlips01
Oregon game officers are state policemen. Just have differnt training. I have a friend that is one. Had to become a stste police officer and then got the fish and game training.
Posted by: Chickenlips01
Baseball, lokk up "NAtional travel Management rule" You'll see all the USFS site changing everything. It'll also tell you the rule in detail. Thank you Slick Willy, what a lasting legacy!!!
Posted by: Chickenlips01
Originally posted by: DietMtDew
buckaroo 50, Chicklips01, Tass, Muddy4life, I understand where you all are coming from but living in a large city ( Columbus Oh ) and being to busy to ride as much as I want to, getting physically involved is difficult at least, but if there is a way I can help with this particular issue please let me know. Our National Forest for riding here is Wayne and from talking to some of my friends that ride down there the money that the state makes from registrations will probably keep the closing issue on the back burner for a while, plus the law authorities ( Game Wardens, Sheriffs etc. ) are pretty active in keeping the idiots ( can I say that on here ) in control. Also we are only about 4 to 6 hours from the Hatfield and McCoy Trail system in West Virginia and talk about a place that embraces ATV's, heck there are times you can even see the Govenor of West Virginia riding the system. So if the good riders can keep the bad riders under control maybe the old saying " Money talks and BS walks " will come into play because ATVers can spend alot of money for a good time.
I am sorry you can't se what is going to happen. Evnviromentalists want the forests closed down to all motor vehicles. Thats going to happen. Go and read the laws that have been passed. Or just keep on sitting there beleaving it's all OK. I wish it was.
Posted by: Chickenlips01
Originally posted by: ozarkhunter
Originally posted by: Chickenlips01
I am sorry you can't se what is going to happen. Evnviromentalists want the forests closed down to all motor vehicles. Thats going to happen. Go and read the laws that have been passed. Or just keep on sitting there beleaving it's all OK. I wish it was.
And just what are you doing about it? Alot of people are joining clubs and contacting forrest services and government officals to get this stuff stopped.Mabe you should focus some of this energy on trying to help out. If you are I am sorry I didnt know.
That is what I am doing. I did join the club here in Central Oregon. I do write my letters and send my emails. I would love to get some people togther and jam some fax machines. YOU????
Posted by: DietMtDew
buckaroo 50, Chicklips01, Tass, Muddy4life, I understand where you all are coming from but living in a large city ( Columbus Oh ) and being to busy to ride as much as I want to, getting physically involved is difficult at least, but if there is a way I can help with this particular issue please let me know. Our National Forest for riding here is Wayne and from talking to some of my friends that ride down there the money that the state makes from registrations will probably keep the closing issue on the back burner for a while, plus the law authorities ( Game Wardens, Sheriffs etc. ) are pretty active in keeping the idiots ( can I say that on here ) in control. Also we are only about 4 to 6 hours from the Hatfield and McCoy Trail system in West Virginia and talk about a place that embraces ATV's, heck there are times you can even see the Govenor of West Virginia riding the system. So if the good riders can keep the bad riders under control maybe the old saying " Money talks and BS walks " will come into play because ATVers can spend alot of money for a good time.
Posted by: DietMtDew
'll tell you what, after reading all these postings, I can tell you I have obviously had my head in the sand I did not know it was this bad all over the country.
I am going to try and contact somebody at Hatfield and McCoy to find out what they do to keep their trail system so successful, but then it does help to have a Government body that cares. I was a competitive water skier ( back in the late 70's and early 80's ) up in Wisconsin and I went through a similar problem with trying to put in slalom courses and jumps on lakes ( Fishermen didn't really like water skiers ) and we ( Ski Clubs ) got it as far as a court hearing. The court hearing was a joke and we ( Ski Clubs ) got our asses kicked cause only about 20 skiers showed up, but about 150 fishermen did so you know what side the courts went with. The problem we found out was so many people want to have the fun but do not want to work for it, they were so simple minded that if there was any kind of trouble the would just sell their equipment and go on to another thing to do ( no passion ) what so ever. This is sounding awfully similar ( deja vue ) but I will try and do what ever I can, and first will be joining OMTA to get some direction.
Posted by: killakevbeastmode
Originally posted by: buckaroo50
Here is what I do and I don't care what anyone thinks. If I see an irresponsible rider, riding without a baffel or off a designated trail or tearing up property needlessly, or an under aged child on a trail unsupervised by a guardian, I write down there registration and send it to the Warden Service.
Is it squealing - damn straight it is. And I don't give a rats-ass what people think of that. These irrespnsibles have ruined my sport thus far and I am fighting back and telling them that they are not going to continue to ruin it. And if I can get their sorry butts off the trails then I will. I don't go looking for it but if I run across it I just don't say to myself "It is none of my business what they do", because it is my business. They are ruining my sport and I will ruin their day if I can.
And when the Game Warden visits their house and gives them a written warning, a ticket or impounds their machine or has a little talk with a guardian - guess what - makes them stop and think next time as to who is watching. And it is not just a 'hide and go seek' game with the authorities.
You irrisponsibles have ruined it for me and now it is my turn to take a 'wack' at you. And I am not going to sit idle and allow you to ruin it any more than you already have. So if you can't ride responsible and safely then don't let me see it, because I will turn your sorry butt in. Because I am not going to cry about it later, and complain that government has issued more mandates and taken my sport away.
Its too little too late, by doing this, you are further embedding their restrictions, you are actually nailing your own coffin, you are bringing ORV's to the forefront in a negative way, its like a drug dealer turning in another drug dealer, although, I back your cause first and foremost, but to a degree. This is 2007, whats going on has been going on forever, since I can remember, I have rode since I was six, I am 31. I ride illegally all the time, northern New Jersey has NO PLACE TO RIDE, but every body on my block and so on owns an ORV. If I or we from where I am from get caught the penalties are serious. My suggestion to you is fine pick your apples and handle them yourself, be a roll model, not a snitch, teach right from wrong, you are mostly talking about young kids that use and abuse private land. Dont shake the whole tree, this you speak of should have been done back in the late 80's, that time is over.
As for them to stop people from ORV'in, in any state, it will never happen, the import revenue is TOO HIGH, and as for the fine Americans who ride, then are told not to, well that just makes us want to do it even more, Tell them to post these laws, and I like thousands of others will break them, showing them I DO NOT BEND OVER, I am part of clubs and lobbies to gain legal ground to ride on, but that simply isn't working. I has been over ten years since I have been "involved" where were you people then?
Posted by: killakevbeastmode
Originally posted by: check
Thankfully, I haven't heard of any closures here in Canada yet, and in Ontario, more trails are being mapped and opened up all the time.
I read somewhere you spend almost the same as eating out as you do on orv's. As a whole. Its over a few billion a year, I think I may move to Canada.... aay?
Posted by: killakevbeastmode
Originally posted by: DietMtDew
buckaroo 50, Chicklips01, Tass, Muddy4life, I understand where you all are coming from but living in a large city ( Columbus Oh ) and being to busy to ride as much as I want to, getting physically involved is difficult at least, but if there is a way I can help with this particular issue please let me know. Our National Forest for riding here is Wayne and from talking to some of my friends that ride down there the money that the state makes from registrations will probably keep the closing issue on the back burner for a while, plus the law authorities ( Game Wardens, Sheriffs etc. ) are pretty active in keeping the idiots ( can I say that on here ) in control. Also we are only about 4 to 6 hours from the Hatfield and McCoy Trail system in West Virginia and talk about a place that embraces ATV's, heck there are times you can even see the Govenor of West Virginia riding the system. So if the good riders can keep the bad riders under control maybe the old saying " Money talks and BS walks " will come into play because ATVers can spend alot of money for a good time.
I would prabably spent a ton of money in trips to other states and within my own state to visit anything for orv's, like camping with miles of trails, and what have you. NJ has one orv park (Chatsworth) (which I've been to) with a 6 mile trail, that just stinks, and four tracks, one beginner, intermediate, One track for ATV's, and the Motorcross track, you can ride both (bikes and atv's) on the intermediate, but it out right stinks, $300.00+ for membership, for what? Thats gonna close soon I hear too, so I'll save that for gas money.
So I guess my whole state is idiots, cause everyone here gets popped for riding, because we have no place to go, I refuse to get caught, like many others, so I run. Either that or pay thousands in fines and lose my machine(s).
