Pages: 1
Posted by: garyc660R
I did'nt read the entire thread, but did you post the video somewhere? I really don't understand why police wanted to question you because you are using these forums to tell people NOT to tresspass....am I missing something here?
Anyway...we will always have people willing to break the law. In an anti atv location such as Jersey, dealers should be shut down if there are no legal to ride areas within a certain radius of their establishment.....maybe 50 miles or so. Then it takes the temptation away from people willing to trespass and sits the burden on manufacturers laps (no atv's sold = manufacturers having to step in and get active in the fight for legal riding areas). Just wishful thinking. in closing up, ut still makes no sense to purchase an atv when you have no place to legally ride.
Gary
Posted by: JohnO
You want to ride? Move down to the KY/WVA area. We have hundreds of miles of some of the most challenging trails you've ever seen. Legal, maintained trails, it's ATV heaven. I'm a four hour drive from Hatfield/McCoy. You can hang out there all week, and never ride the same trail twice.
Why fight it? NJ is hopelessly urban. They're not going to change. Take a week off, trailer your quad down here, and enjoy. You just might end up staying for a while. All the fun, and none of the BS.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
Saturday only 6 guys were out on atvs In the clayton pit. I seen one cop then I ran.A few minutes later I see cop everwhere More cops cars and trucks then quad riders.They were everywhere.three of the cop were up on a hill playing look out.What a joke,Bunch of loosers can't you find a drunk on the road or a drug lord dealing drugs.Funny thing is I never seen a jackson cop on the road or anywhere other then the woods.You would think we were going to blow something up or kill someone the way they come down on us.
Sunday they had there hands full,I don';t know howmany cops there was but I can tell you this,If I was a DRUg lord or drunk I wouldn't worry about driving though Jackson on the weekend,because all the cops are in the woods.
"Really" They must have had every cop they got in the woods.I don't see them enforcing any other laws other then the ones for atv's. Anyway It was funny to watch the cops chase everyone . There was over 50 guys on atv's.the cops would go one way and the atvers would go the other.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
our tax dollars at work. I'm starting to make a stink about it.I've been taking pictures of the cops misusing there trucks and cars,and just the sheer numbers of them out in the pit. It's sick to think that all there efforts are used to stop atvers from riding on raped earth.This is a sand pit that has been raped for it resorces not a park or golf course.
One more thing us ATV riders get accused Of every bad thing ,Like garbage in the woods,or some a$$ stealing a doser.||WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SEEN A atver WITH A OLD WASHER MACHINE ON IT TO DUMP IN THE WOODS. the funny part about that is In N.J you can get a perrmit to drive a truck in some state forests but not a ATV.Then when garbage is dumped, we get acused for it.BUNCH OF BULL!! hipporit state!!!
Posted by: Fixitmatt
Hey I no we are braking the law by riding in this pit BUT the state should give us something to ride on. We have one park in the whole state and it is Going away because they are loosing there permit to the state.WHAT DO THEY EXPECT WILL HAPPEN THEN!! this state is corrupt and I don't think they ever will help us. A few years ago the federal land use act was suppose to get us 5 parks by 2005. what happend to this. We seen nothing but more enforcement by looser cops that got picked on as kids(power trip a$$holes) and now we will see the only park go away.Three years ago I found out that N.J spent 900,000.oo On enforcement of atv laws and only made some 6,000 in fines.WHat a waste of our money?? they could make much more money by making us pay for premits to ride in state forests. I would bet that if we were aloud to ride in these forests paces like claytons would have less problems.
Like I said before stealing trucks and dumping garbage is done by people in trucks and cars Not atv's.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
I just can't take it anymore.EVERY state in the country has done something for orv use BUT not New Jersey.How is it that in Pa,NY and delaware they don't have the problems we do. I'm trying to find a job In some other state so I can move.F this state. Any jobs in Arizona for a Engineer/atv mechanic.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
It's easy for you guys to talk about me being bad because I break the law, But every part of this state ISN"T legal to ride on. Then I see cops breaking the laws they are supose to protect.They are hipocrates so should I be. Come on now I don't hate cops but they really need to think about what they are doing. Tell there boss that it is bull because it isn't that bad,I see hundreds of familys riding how bad is it .It's better then doing drugs or road racing cars(which I see alot of) enforce the rules of the road before you come into the woos to jerk off.HOW Am I HURTING LAND THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN RAPE FOR IT"S RESORCES(clayton block and sand) The only one who gets hurt could be me.Instead of tring to stop us they should pass a law stating that if you ride a Atv on private land and get hurt ,then the land owner should not be lieable.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
that is not ture.I wouldn't run my atv across your lawn.Where I ride is state forests and a few sand pits. Now I know the sand pits are private But they are raped land anyway.There is nothing my atv can do to hurt the land.Also ,try the fact that hundred people could be in this pit at one time.
It is very easy for one of you guys to sit back and say I have no repsect when you have all the places to ride that you do.Remember we have nothing in New Jersey. We may have hundreds of acres of state forest but NONE of it is legal for atv's.Trucks and cars thats kinda ok, hipocates,
This dumb state goverment will shut down The casinos other state run things just to fix a dept They are so stuid.$900,000.00 dollars a year spent on atv enforcement but not one dollar spent on helping the problem.They are so dumb that they can't even see that if they make it legal to ride in the forest they could charge us and make 900,000.00 insted of wasting it.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
You are truely f---ed up like I really wouldn't understand the differance.Theft and murder is two different issues and have nothing to do with trespassing. Clayton use to not care about us untill the cops came around and started busting people who would get hurt, So on top of doctor bills they would have to pay fines.Then the lawyers would come in and start a law suit.BULL cycle. as for privacy right like I said before I WOULDN"T RUN DOWN YOUR LAWN. I don't ruin peoples private land ,where I ride is hundreds of acres of raped land for all it natural resorces.There is no one around for miles.I wouldn't run around you back yard . I resect people privacy and try to stay out of site.
I guess you wouldn't understand Living in that castle in the woods. And who do you think you are saying I can't aford my own land then I shouldn't pursue this hobby.Up yours bud!!Do you have a million? try to buy alot of land in N.J. We get what we get and It's all illegal. It didn't use to be and I've been around along time riding.Imagine someone told you you can't ride in your back yard!! You wouldn't listen if you road there you whole life.So don't judge me.Rich a$$hole.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
You didn't answer my question!! Would you stop riding if you back yard was shut down by words in a law book? Come on now!! I'm not hurting anything.If a tree falls in the forest and no ones around to hear it does it make a sound. Well, if a atv'er rides in the forest and no ones around to hears or see me do I make a sound. It's not like I do laps in front of the police station or someone house.
I'm sure you broke some law for your own purpose at some time and if not you will someday. I can see some of your point but,whats next,They make a law as to tell us where and when to sh!t. WE HAVE NOTHING here to ride on legally(and it use to be).I love this sport and do alot of racing (legally) I'm not going to sit home and write all day with you am going riding.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
you must be a cop or a left-coaster or both
Posted by: Fixitmatt
I hear ya , if I lived out west or anyother state I wouldn't have to trespass.There would be legal places to ride .Get me now.I understand you,I get it. I got to do what I got to do,Yes it's sad,But atv's are my thing.NOT braking the law,,but it happens and I try not to let everyone or anyone know that I'm there. Get IT??
Posted by: Fixitmatt
well put. You may have gotten me wrong before .I have been fighting a long time now along with the ama and other local groups to get us more riding areas. Here in N.J. we have been promised 5 parks many times but have seem nothing,and the one park we have is closing down because of the state goverment.So what are we to do??we ride where we can get away with it.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
I just want to point out one thing here that the last post openend,,Horse's??? they get to ride where ever they want!!!! I seen them out in claytons while the cops were chasing Atvs,They drove right by the horses.WHAT is the differance?? they are tresspassing to,they leave sh!t all over the place.Why can they get away with it and we cann't. I'll tell you why, N.J is corrupt(tony saprano) we will never get what we want unless some high up mob boss's son wants to ride atv's.
I cann't believe this post still goes on?? Unless you live Here and go though what all us atv rides go though you will never understand!!!!
one last point is new jesey has enough land for us but choose not to let anyone use it.They are even making it illegal to ride a mountain bikes though the forests.COME ON NOW GET REAL!!!
Posted by: Fixitmatt
my Jackson UPDATE:::: Jackson police now have atv's.They caught over 60 riders two sundays ago. They cased the riders at high speeds and caused all kinds of chaos.I though in New Jesey the police weren't able to chase atvers In the woods" BUY law" do to the fact that it puts riders and everyone in danger. We are looking into this deeply because we Now Have VIdoe from that day. It shows the police using there polaris 700 sportsman in reckless manners to get the atv riders.High speed chases and trying to ram riders too. This could be the only weapon us atv riders have here in N.J. The friend of mine who shot the video Now has a lawyer looking into this.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
This is very messed up here in N.J. All you other riders though out the U.S.A need to realize that we have the space for riders,we have state forests, we have state parks, BUT, we are not allowed to ride ANYWHERE,ANYMORE.If you people ever seen the way these cops try to fight us ,you will wonder why we would have any crimes. What I mean is that they put so much effort into chasing and arresting atv rides they we should have No crimes if they put that much effort into enforcing there laws out in public,or on the streets.There are bigger problems in any part of N.J then atv riders in the woods.It's a big Joke!!! But now we see that they won't even follow there own laws, They have put rides of N.J in danger by the actions they are taking in Jackson.THIS IS CRAZY WE ARE NOT TERRORISTS,i don't plan on blowing up anything or shooting anything.
YOU CAN GO IN THE FOREST TO BLOW BAMBIES HEAD OFF, BUT YOU CAN'T RIDE ATV'S. Walk around with a gun and No one cares,ride a atv and you may go to jail.How F--ked is that.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
one thing that really burns the a$$ out of us N.J atv riders is that back in 2000(i Think) the fedral land act use promised us 5 off highway parks for atv's by 2005. Well, we have not seen one or even a chance to try one out.The only park we got has been there before this act was made and it sucks big time.Also that park has lost it's lease and will no longer be there by 2008.The park has had it's own demise because it is too small and Not a signal person wants to spend $350.00 a year to be crouded.I could really take one picture and fit the whole atv track in it, that is how small it is.Also if you got friends who ride dirtbikes you cannot ride with them.The biggest kick in the a$$ about that park is it is surrounded by over 1000 acers of state land that we can not use. Why have this land that our tax dollars pay for if we the public can't use it. They even want to make riding mountain bikes though the forest illegal(so watch out tree huggers).
This is a corrupt state,Just look at our senator, It really is the supranos here, but the differance is they own the state goverment.MOB controlled state.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
The thing is we have tried many many times to help clean the forest as a club, and we have gotten the trash out of these places BUT,guess what!!! We still are not allowed to ride in those places(forests) The local goverment USED US and gave us nothing in return. WE did not bring the trash into the forests, but we removed it and for what?? to get our names in the news paper.WE GOT SH!T FOR ALL WE HAVE DONE...so after no respect from the state or these local goverments Why would we care if we are not allowed to ride in these places,NOTHING WILL CHANGE THEM!!! This state is so dumb, they don't even realize that they could make a ton of money making riding legal in some state forests. I'd pay 300.00 a year to ride in these forests.
It is a Hippocrat state.I can by a permit to drive my truck on our beaches(and they are washing away into the ocean) or I can dive it into all our forests BUT GOD FORBID THEY LET ATV's IN. When was the last time anyone seen a atv rider dumping a old grill or couch into the forest.NO I think It is the trucks they allow not atv's .This is as bad as racism,it's segregation.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
I have something other To add to this post--I live in brick and two days ago A Jackson Cop came to my house,I cann't go into too many details but,He wanted to know how I was getting info on their bust down of atv riders.He thought I knew someone,,But I just hear my info though the grape vine,,I have made a few warning posts to guys to keep them from going to Jackson.Last week the Jackasson police Used Helicopters to case and catch atv riders. They must of wasted alot of tax payers money.They used flat beds, tow trucks,seven Police atv's And covered every entrance to the pit. Well they must nothave met the amount of people they wanted to bust because they scanned the net And found some of my posts ,Then showed up at my house,,I didn't get arrested or fined but a warring kinda,The cop was cool with me He just wanted info. But as I look at it ,this is crazy!! come on now there is bigger problems in Jackson then atv riders Drugs, drug dealer,thiefs,and street racers. I cann't believe this state would spend all that money to enforce atv riding laws instead of trying to help find/ make places to ride. With the mount of tome and money they spend,we could have the best parks in the world. They can make money off us easier then they can try to take it from us.
\
One last thing ---I'm very pissed at this forum and the people who run it. They gave the police my info,,over the phone,,,How did they really know the guy on the phone was a cop? could have been a killer or thief(i'm locking up my quad more now.)DIDN"T THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THIS SITE EVER HEAR OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!!!That is what I said.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
Sorry sergeant G I couldn't help you!! Also You know I had to post something!!
For the rest of you,,, the Jackson police are reading my posts and maybe more,, Please do not post something that will cause them to come to my house agian.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
I know . Ive given up on the whole state of N.J. . Last week I went to PA. We parked right off the road in an open lot,,A state cop drove by and waved to us . In N.J we would have our quads taken away and gotten some big fine. N.J is Bullsh!T and it's never going to change. I even looked at houses out in PA,,I think I'm moving.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
blaster200fmf,, The people in the other states shouldn't worry about guys from N.j bringing heat from cops,,,Because we are the best riders at hiding from site. I've been riding alot in Pa lately and i see all the guys who live there don't even try to be out of site when It come to parking their trucks,,Me on the other hand,I hide my truck out of site,,so this way No one knows I'm even from Jersey.
As for the state of N.J. ------It's bullsh!t------Ive been saying it for years. New Jersey Needs to pass a law that states : if you ride or drive any ORV on private lands and get hurt ,YOU CAN NOT SUE THE LAND OWNER. then they need to make money by allowing atv riding in some state forest land,and charge us to ride there. Our one track in the state is crap,some people don't like tracks and a switch back trail ride that isn't even wide enough to get out of 2nd gear.ANY real atver would get bored there real quick.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
Gary,The police came to my house mainly to look for a good guy cop and turn him bad. What I mean is,they came too my house because they thought I knew a cop,that was leaking info my way as to where they are going to bust.
Posted by: Fixitmatt
yes i think you got it right!! They spent thousands of dollars to chase us down.I heard that they blow there load for the year,and don't have too many funds left over to keep chasing us. But thats just a rumor.I also heard that the weekend before they came to my house they caught no one and wasted like 100,000 dollars.
Posted by: blackballed
Quote
Originally posted by: npdchief
It's sad that there are Loser cops like that. Heres what you should do. Go right over to them and tell them that you know they were picked on as kids and that they are just C.S. Losers. They should go out and chase drug dealers instead of doing what their superiors tell them to do. As we all know cops can do what they want and go whereever they want never listen to superiors. In fact instead of moving to another state, it may be wiser to move to another country where cops are not losers, yeah, like Mexico, Iraq, Sudan, Iran, Russia or some place like that.I know we need more riding places but there are smarter and better ways to address the situations.Thanks,Chief Jerry CarrRetired
Thanks, Jerry.
It seems that no matter how ignorant the incident nor how child-like it is related; folks have absolutely no interest in shaming people like this out of orv communities or even decent forums.
Believe me, it isn't the fact that these idiots exist (as I'm sure you've learned in law enforcement)....it's the fact that the vast majority within any community ALLOW people like this to talk/act in this manner within their community in the first place.
Kids who read these boards learn one very important lesson from them....that there are not many out there countering the message that they receive every day from the punks that they ride with spewing the same garbage that you witness above to them in person.(kind of like the AMA/ATVA not having the stones to go after what's being exhibited every day to thousands of kids at Windrock in Tennessee).
Again, thanks for being one of the few on here willing to stand up like a man while giving a glimpse to these kids as to what actually being one is all about.
Posted by: Blaster200FMF
If I lived in NJ , I wouldnt own an ATV , there is not 1 legal riding place in your whole state except 2 off road pay to ride parks , thats why the cops chase you guys , NJ has become a haven for badit atvers , not trying you bash you or anything but other riders from near by states like Pa. and Ny are worried about jersey riders coming out and bringing heat to where we live , I seen it over and over again.
JMO.
Posted by: RPyfz450
I support Fixitmatt's stance. Everyone else here that has choosen to criticize him doesn't live in New Jersey and is ignorant of the lack of freedom that exists in this state. Other states like CT and MA know what's it's like, but OH and MO don't have a clue.
In NJ, we have several environmental groups determined to erradicate just about every out door recreations the other states take fro granted. They also don't understand how money and greed has permiated into every aspect of living in NJ.
Do these people know that ATVers are getting $1000 fines and a criminal record for riding on lands that are destined to become strip malls and parking lots? No. Do these people understand NJ has recieved $2.1M in federal funds for state trail programs that are being squandered? No. Do these people know the area in Jackson you speak of is a sand quarry where the land is being striped of it's natural resources and is perfectly-suit to off-road enthusiasts? No, they just don't have a clue of the oppression that exists here.
Posted by: RPyfz450
Quote
Originally posted by: son
What we need are sponsors. Lots of them. A large-scale group of riders from the state, along with some ample donations from each, will gain a lot of attention. A lot of land in my area is owned by hunting clubs, and could just as easly be owned by similar sized atv clubs. If anythings going to happen though, it needs to happen soon. All the land is being developed and preserved. That Hovnanian guy is going to start putting a pretty big developement in Sarco soon.
www.NJOHVA.org is making some headway in these areas. Look for an "OHV event" of some sort to take place at the Hovnanian site over the winter. Possibly the biggest issue NJ ATVer's face is we're inadequately represented in government. To the state government, we're an insignificant minority of the voting population. Since the creation of NJOHV.org, we now have a way to communicate with government agencies and environmental groups. Despite the growing ATV sales figures in NJ, only a very tiny percent of ATVers are organized under the NJOHVA. Please sign yourself up with the NJOHVA and ask all your ATV friends to do the same. Memembership is free, but the representation is priceless.
The group meets the first Tuesday of every month at different locations in New Jersery. Several dealer representatives, riding park operators, and race promoters are present at these meetings and LOTS of interesting points are covered.
Posted by: RPyfz450
Quote
Originally posted by: georged
I find it difficult correlating lack of freedom and land ownership. Stating it's wrong for an owner of land to do what he/she wants with the land, be it strip mall or parking lot, and trespassers should be allowed on that land without recourse doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
If you could imagine an investment group buying up all of the Oregon dunes and making it illegal to tresspass there, then you might begin to understand. In NJ, there's no open land to free ride on publicly. All the open land has been bought up.
We have one official OHV park that's less than 50 acres in size. This ORV park has three MX tracks on it, a very small one for ATVs, a tiny one for children, and an adequate one for bikes only. There's three trail loops all of which are very short. Any adult would be bored with this place by the end of one full day there.
On the other hand, NJ is home to some very excellent natural riding areas with miles of sand, hills, and other terrain features perfect for ATVing. All of this land is either being mined, developed, or preserved as open spaces. As I understand it, the rules/laws for open space preservation has a clause for OHV use, but the state government is unwilling to open any existing lands to ORV use. They require new land be acquired for this purpose. While the state and/or federal programs will pay for the acquisition of this land, they can buy it then change their minds about ORV use on it. This is the case, so far, with lands recently purchased for this purspose. There's something like 250 acres that were acquired for OHV use, but the state isn't moving forward with the project.
georged
Just out of curiosity, why don't you buy your own land and do with it as you please instead of complaining about being cited and fined for trespassing on the land of others?
Because I've already paid taxes that go towards these projects and open land is just too expensive to aquire without government assistance. The people of NJ were promised two new OHV parks by 2005 which never materialized, yet the state government continues to collect federal funds for this purpose.
Posted by: RPyfz450
In New Jersey, the ATVers have been here for decades. It's been a delicate balance of out-of-sight, out-of-mind. It worked fine for years. The land owners don't really mind that ATVers are enjoying the property as long as they get to develop the land or sell it to make a large profit (and buy more land).
Land owners have realized they're liable when somebody gets hurt on their land. NJOHVA.org is pushing for a limited liability bill that will effectively eliminate lawsuits against land owners. It identifies ATVing as an inherently risky sport and limits how much the land owner can be sued for. If you can't sue the land owner for a lot of money, lawyers won't be interested in helping.
Posted by: Arkyrider
Actually they are all big money backers of the Blue Ribbon Coalition, National Off Highway Vehcal Conservation Councel and others. Individuals will never have much of a say but if you join these groups and form organized clubs you can begin having a big impact.
Posted by: rescuediver
Quote
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
I have something other To add to this post--I live in brick and two days ago A Jackson Cop came to my house,I cann't go into too many details but,He wanted to know how I was getting info on their bust down of atv riders.He thought I knew someone,,But I just hear my info though the grape vine,,I have made a few warning posts to guys to keep them from going to Jackson.Last week the Jackasson police Used Helicopters to case and catch atv riders. They must of wasted alot of tax payers money.They used flat beds, tow trucks,seven Police atv's And covered every entrance to the pit. Well they must nothave met the amount of people they wanted to bust because they scanned the net And found some of my posts ,Then showed up at my house,,I didn't get arrested or fined but a warring kinda,The cop was cool with me He just wanted info. But as I look at it ,this is crazy!! come on now there is bigger problems in Jackson then atv riders Drugs, drug dealer,thiefs,and street racers. I cann't believe this state would spend all that money to enforce atv riding laws instead of trying to help find/ make places to ride. With the mount of tome and money they spend,we could have the best parks in the world. They can make money off us easier then they can try to take it from us.
\
One last thing ---I'm very pissed at this forum and the people who run it. They gave the police my info,,over the phone,,,How did they really know the guy on the phone was a cop? could have been a killer or thief(i'm locking up my quad more now.)DIDN"T THE PEOPLE WHO RUN THIS SITE EVER HEAR OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!!!!That is what I said.
I don't get it. You rant on the world wide web and then blame others for your misery
As far as your state being the only one that has problems is far from fact. Every state has people who want to shut down atv riding areas. What I can see from what you have posted is you are not organized and putting up a legitimate legal battle. You need to pull your resources together and start a grass root effort to open property up. Even if it is small, you need to start somewhere. Blaming your woes on the police is not going to solve your issues. Easiest way to solve your trespassing issues is to stop trespassing.
Posted by: bank
Do what we do in New Hampshire. NHOHVA provides the landowner with a $2,000,000 liability policy for the use of the land for recreational vehicles, plus a small discount on their taxes!!
Posted by: bank
Personally, I would take my cause to large landowers if you have any. We in the northeast have had the greatest success with them. We've made agreements with them to make trails and build bridges on their property as well as clean up trash and debris from time to time as well as maintain the trails. The previous poster is right about it taking 200 years for the government, especially if your in a major "tree hugger" state!! We have basically given up on the state, especailly in NH. However, Maine is getting smarter, they see lots of $$ Ching Ching $$ coming into their state in many forms, not only registrations, but hotel, food, liquor, tolls, gas... you get the idea. The point is to let people know you spend money in their areas and that your responsible!
But do try to avoid the temptation to ride illegally, I know it is a quick fix but in the long run you'll lose. As someone said, try and find cops and politicians on your side. Its hard to crack the nut from the outside, but once your in, its like smashing a pumpkin!
Posted by: bank
Well from what I read on this thread. It doesn't appear that you have any recourse if the only land is state land...ThenI hate to say it, but your screwed. Now if you have large landowners, that's a different story..
As I said before, with all the "tree hugging, acedemia, never spent a day in the real world" types in the northeast, you aint gonna get sqawt. You need to find large private landowners and work with them. I definelty realize this is a major uphill battle, but it has worked well for us in Maine and New Hampshire. Hell, I can't even ride in my own state of Mass, because the only legal trails are in the Berkshires, and the friggin state wants me to pay sales tax on my machine and then register it... "F" them!!!
Mind you, I never encourage illegal riding, but you gotta admit this guy has got some decent gripes about paying taxes and others who get use of state land. Look what happened in New York state, where the legislature literally stole the ATV monies for other purposes. Talk about leaving a bad taste in people's mouth. Its no wonder decent honest people will go off the "deep end" somtimes!!
Good Luck buddy, If you get time; come on up to NH and Maine and we'll take you around up here..And yes, everyone knows NJ and Mass blow big time when it comes to ATVs, and it looks like Florida is now getting honorable mention too!
Posted by: CamoKodiak450
Man, you guys got it bad!! Heck, I get on mine and ride and ride and ride and never see a cop. I ride hoping to see one so he can eat some 450R dust. Now watch me get busted this evening! As old as I am I'd be better off pulling over and talking my way out of it, but what fun I'd miss out on.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
It's easy for you guys to talk about me being bad because I break the law, But every part of this state ISN"T legal to ride on. Then I see cops breaking the laws they are supose to protect.They are hipocrates so should I be. Come on now I don't hate cops but they really need to think about what they are doing. Tell there boss that it is bull because it isn't that bad,I see hundreds of familys riding how bad is it .It's better then doing drugs or road racing cars(which I see alot of) enforce the rules of the road before you come into the woos to jerk off.HOW Am I HURTING LAND THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN RAPE FOR IT"S RESORCES(clayton block and sand) The only one who gets hurt could be me.Instead of tring to stop us they should pass a law stating that if you ride a Atv on private land and get hurt ,then the land owner should not be lieable.
You don't even have a clue about what respect or private land means, do you?
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
It is very easy for one of you guys to sit back and say I have no repsect when you have all the places to ride that you do.Remember we have nothing in New Jersey. We may have hundreds of acres of state forest but NONE of it is legal for atv's.Trucks and cars thats kinda ok, hipocates,
If you can't afford your own land, why pursue a hobby that involves breaking laws and disregarding the privacy rights of others? That's very similar to rationalizing theft, murder or any other crime for your own purposes. But you probably won't recognize that similarity when there's someone else to erroneously blame for your personal circumstances, such as LE performing their sworn duty and land owners who don't want you on their property.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
You are truely f---ed up like I really wouldn't understand the differance.Theft and murder is two different issues and have nothing to do with trespassing. Clayton use to not care about us untill the cops came around and started busting people who would get hurt, So on top of doctor bills they would have to pay fines.Then the lawyers would come in and start a law suit.BULL cycle. as for privacy right like I said before I WOULDN"T RUN DOWN YOUR LAWN. I don't ruin peoples private land ,where I ride is hundreds of acres of raped land for all it natural resorces.There is no one around for miles.I wouldn't run around you back yard . I resect people privacy and try to stay out of site.
I guess you wouldn't understand Living in that castle in the woods. And who do you think you are saying I can't aford my own land then I shouldn't pursue this hobby.Up yours bud!!Do you have a million? try to buy alot of land in N.J. We get what we get and It's all illegal. It didn't use to be and I've been around along time riding.Imagine someone told you you can't ride in your back yard!! You wouldn't listen if you road there you whole life.So don't judge me.Rich a$$hole.
Private property is just that, regardless of its condition, which means you condone breaking the law for your own purposes. Simple as that, in spite of your rationalizations and childish personal attack.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
You didn't answer my question!! Would you stop riding if you back yard was shut down by words in a law book? Come on now!! I'm not hurting anything.If a tree falls in the forest and no ones around to hear it does it make a sound. Well, if a atv'er rides in the forest and no ones around to hears or see me do I make a sound. It's not like I do laps in front of the police station or someone house.
I'm sure you broke some law for your own purpose at some time and if not you will someday. I can see some of your point but,whats next,They make a law as to tell us where and when to sh!t. WE HAVE NOTHING here to ride on legally(and it use to be).I love this sport and do alot of racing (legally) I'm not going to sit home and write all day with you am going riding.
Not if I owned my backyard. If others owned it, it wouldn't be my backyard and yes, I would respect their rights, just as I'd expect them to respect my rights.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
you must be a cop or a left-coaster or both
Never been associated with LE and I've lived in a lot of places around the US in including NYC and Hawaii. Respect for private property and the law doesn't change anywhere I've lived. Some have it, fewer don't. People away from the US NE Coast, especially in rural areas where LE isn't a convenience, are more apt to have far less patience with law breakers including trespassers.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
I hear ya , if I lived out west or anyother state I wouldn't have to trespass.There would be legal places to ride .Get me now.I understand you,I get it. I got to do what I got to do,Yes it's sad,But atv's are my thing.NOT braking the law,,but it happens and I try not to let everyone or anyone know that I'm there. Get IT??
Actually, other than places far from metropolitan areas, there aren't that many places to legally ride where I live. And the laws for trespassing are enforced by elected county sheriff departments who take no prisoners to keep their voting public, generally landowners, happy. Anyone caught trespassing is subject to a fine, damages defined by the landowner and for repeat offenders, confiscation of equipment. On public land where ATVs are not allowed, confiscation is often the norm. In remote areas where LE is stretched thin, landowners often take care of such problems on their own in an unfriendly manner.
The general public dislike of ATV riders has been documented on this and other forums countless times, in most cases derived from terrain destructive riding habits, noise and the trespassing issue. Changing that image to a point where the public, local and national officials include ATVs in their recreational resource planning has proven impossible in many states due to a significant number of riders who pursue destruction and trespassing as their normal riding habits.
Given the ATV image problem perpetuated by a core group of riders, the only viable solution is pay riding sites, which seem to be gaining popularity in and adjacent to many high population density areas. While travel and expense often makes that form of riding inconvenient as versus taking it out of one's garage and going riding, steadily eroding ATV riding image is reaching a point where most places without it will look closer at confiscation legislation to solve destruction and trespassing problems. Land owners and non-destructive, non-trespassing ATV enthusiasts generally support any legislation that facilitates and protects their lawful rights.
Posted by: georged
As our population expands and centralizes government will close down ATV riding on public property in or near densely populated areas because ATV enthusiasts are, when compared to other outdoor activities, a relatively small interest group and the nature of ATV riding eliminates coexisting with other outdoor activities. As public access disappears, legislation and enforcement of same against trespassing will become a priority to satisfy landholders.
All it takes to go private is organization of enough interested parties to pool credit, accumulate modest start-up capital and lease a sizable portion of unusable land. Arranging for insurance coverage to satisfy the leaseholder and assuring public officials and LE all activities will be privately policed (using off-duty cops always works well for what are considered non-general public interest activities) will secure a business license. With riding fees calculated to cover operating expenses and a return on the capital, you'll probably end up making a lot of money while pursuing your hobby in a legal manner. Pretty simple business plan without a lot of capital requirements.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: RPyfz450
I support Fixitmatt's stance. Everyone else here that has choosen to criticize him doesn't live in New Jersey and is ignorant of the lack of freedom that exists in this state. Other states like CT and MA know what's it's like, but OH and MO don't have a clue.
In NJ, we have several environmental groups determined to erradicate just about every out door recreations the other states take fro granted. They also don't understand how money and greed has permiated into every aspect of living in NJ.
Do these people know that ATVers are getting $1000 fines and a criminal record for riding on lands that are destined to become strip malls and parking lots? No. Do these people understand NJ has recieved $2.1M in federal funds for state trail programs that are being squandered? No. Do these people know the area in Jackson you speak of is a sand quarry where the land is being striped of it's natural resources and is perfectly-suit to off-road enthusiasts? No, they just don't have a clue of the oppression that exists here.
I find it difficult correlating lack of freedom and land ownership. Stating it's wrong for an owner of land to do what he/she wants with the land, be it strip mall or parking lot, and trespassers should be allowed on that land without recourse doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Just out of curiosity, why don't you buy your own land and do with it as you please instead of complaining about being cited and fined for trespassing on the land of others?
Posted by: georged
Because I've already paid taxes that go towards these projects and open land is just too expensive to aquire without government assistance. The people of NJ were promised two new OHV parks by 2005 which never materialized, yet the state government continues to collect federal funds for this purpose.
You're essentially stating you can't afford your own land and want public funds to provide a place for you to ride your ATV?
New Jersey has over eight million people. Any idea of the number of ATVs? Just curiosity to determine NJ ATV political clout.
Most federal funds shared with states have a broad range of applications, such as transportation, recreation, etc. How a state uses those funds is generally discretionary, dependent on political clout wielded by political power of special interests regardless of political promises made to what is probably a small special interest group like ATVs. As an example, if money is required for a large special interest group such as inner-city multiple use recreation parks in a depressed area, I can almost guarantee ATV funds will be used to satisfy that group as it would provide NJ politicians far more political support from voters and those private entities that perform the actual construction. Such are the facts of life.
I guess I don't understand your statement about open land being too expensive to purchase without government assistance. Any business person or politician is going to immediately respond to that statement with the question of why you're purchasing ATVs with no place to ride them; an obvious contribution to the trespassing and terrain destruction image presented by ATV riders to the general (voting) public. From a public cost/return viewpoint, would a greater number of NJ citizens benefit more from multiple use parks or ATV parks? These are the types of questions and evaluations any special interest group request places in the minds of the powers that be.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: RPyfz450
Quote
Originally posted by: georged
I find it difficult correlating lack of freedom and land ownership. Stating it's wrong for an owner of land to do what he/she wants with the land, be it strip mall or parking lot, and trespassers should be allowed on that land without recourse doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
If you could imagine an investment group buying up all of the Oregon dunes and making it illegal to tresspass there, then you might begin to understand. In NJ, there's no open land to free ride on publicly. All the open land has been bought up.
We have one official OHV park that's less than 50 acres in size. This ORV park has three MX tracks on it, a very small one for ATVs, a tiny one for children, and an adequate one for bikes only. There's three trail loops all of which are very short. Any adult would be bored with this place by the end of one full day there.
On the other hand, NJ is home to some very excellent natural riding areas with miles of sand, hills, and other terrain features perfect for ATVing. All of this land is either being mined, developed, or preserved as open spaces. As I understand it, the rules/laws for open space preservation has a clause for OHV use, but the state government is unwilling to open any existing lands to ORV use. They require new land be acquired for this purpose. While the state and/or federal programs will pay for the acquisition of this land, they can buy it then change their minds about ORV use on it. This is the case, so far, with lands recently purchased for this purspose. There's something like 250 acres that were acquired for OHV use, but the state isn't moving forward with the project.
I just took a quick look at New Jersey:
1. 22% of all land is used for agricultural purposes
2. 12% of all land is state forest
3. Has the highest concentration of horses in the US (horse people do hate ATVs)
4. Has the highest population density of the 50 states
5. Has the highest median household income in the US
6. Has the second highest median family income in the US
Were those of you complaining about no place to ride in NJ aware of those demographics? I'd think trying to pry public land and development money from those fingers for ATV parks would be an exercise in futility. I also looked at land costs and would assume, like most places, the ROI from a strip mall or parking lot would be far superior to an ATV riding park.
Unless ATV numbers to population are way out of proportion, like higher than horses, you could well be tilting at windmills to secure public land for ATV usage. Against those odds I'd consider either another hobby or relocation.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: dirtdame
I agree with you about not buying an ATV if there's no place to ride it and that's a great analogy with the jetskis, but unfortunately not all of us can move out to the country. I don't agree that riding illegally is the answer. That just gets everyone (residents, police, town officials etc) really po'd. We just lost 2 huge riding areas (Maybrook and Lembo Lake) here in NY in the last 2 months and if we don't start working within the system we'll never have anyplace to ride. You knew there was no place to ride your machine before you bought it and there's still no place to ride it.
Riding illegally is not an answer, it's a sure way to lose any semblance of public support and become estranged from the system for all purposes but eventual societal punishment by exclusion. ATV advocates are such a small political percentage in the demand for public recreation facilities (read tax money) that every incident of trespassing, illegal or destructive riding generates additional ill will from the big political percentages who do hold legislative power.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: Vulcan700
You say we are making the problem worse sorry to say I have done everything I can think of went to the county meetings and beg for help from the county (this has been going on for 4 years now). I got my day for sure and when that day came we lost flat out were told no more riding so you want me to move after 40 years living here and now they have taken the sport away from us. I will keep fighting and keep riding and if you think I am going to sell my quads and hope to move one day then buy more quads this is super dumb KEEP RIDING N.J. and I will do the same. I here all this hipe but don't see anyone helping to fix the problem I guess I am the only fighter for my rights. N.Y. is a place I bet that everyone rides illegally the concrete jungle of the world. Where do you think they have fro them to ride ??????
I don't care sorry but I am not giving in to this BS of the states and county telling us all what we can and can't do. I was born in the USA and fought for this countries freedom and this is the thanks I get well that is not going to happen. Ride on illegal riders and I hate the tree huggers they have never done anything for trees or the land.
The flag stands for one thing if you did not know
FREEDOM and if you can drive a car or truck down the road and not ware a helmet for bikes speed run red lights and do what ever I will ride my quad.
I can't wait till I retire and move to Utah so I can ride till my heart is full of the sport I love so much.
#$%@ Florida and N.J. and the non-riding law makers.
So you'll be an outlaw and that makes you happy about the democracy you fought for? What about the freedom of the majority who don't want ATVs on their public lands? You do remember what majority rule is in a democracy? Be adult about it and pursue a different hobby until you're in Utah or somewhere less congested.
Posted by: georged
Quote
Originally posted by: Vulcan700
I am an outlaw I pay taxes and drive my car and truck like an american and I drive my quad in the forest but when you take that away from my my freedom and the horse riders ans hunters along with the 4 wheel drive not to say about the camper can still us the land I am pay taxes it has gone a little to far. I live less than a 1/2 from the huge forest and will keep riding my quad and if you could understan what we have gone through you could understand or may be your a tree hugger ???? and hate quads or just do want your little world to be closed what ever the case is It is not fair so I vote to keep riding and if that is an outlaw well so be it. I guess it is a big deal riding a quad in the forest here and killing is not or raping is ok to you can drink beer and drive drunk and smoke pot and sell it to kids but God forbid you ride your quad.
BEST NEWS IS N.J. ATV"S ARE FIGHTING BACK WOOHOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO Fixitmatt
KILL THEM ALL LET GOD SORT THEM OUT
I'm not a tree hugger, I've sold timber from property I've owned for development purposes. But I'll never understand why anyone would intentionally break trespassing laws to pursue what's essentially a hobby. That's selfish rationalization with a criminal aspect. I suggest you travel to pursue your hobby, or relocate or change hobbies and retain your integrity.
Posted by: georged
When you advocate breaking the law on a public forum what do you expect from LE, applause?
Posted by: ajd187
Posted by: ajd187
You guys are so unreasonable. You should listen to the millionaires who live on thousand acre lots on the other side of the country from you. They know what's best for everyone.
Posted by: ajd187
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
Gary,The police came to my house mainly to look for a good guy cop and turn him bad. What I mean is,they came too my house because they thought I knew a cop,that was leaking info my way as to where they are going to bust.
That makes sense I guess. But if they told you to stop talking about it they were just using scare tactics. They can't come after you for anything.
By talking about this stuff online you may be blowing up their spot in terms of busting people. But you aren't doing anything illegal. They were probably just pissed because you were costing them valuable ticket revenue by telling people not to show up.
PS I'm glad I don't live in Jersey anymore!
Posted by: Baseballroxmasox
I can't even ride around my house and move the new slime i put in the tires without a cop coming. I have 3 that live in my neighborhood. luckily one is cool and lets me ride it in my driveway. i have to have a helmet on. As you can kinda see in my pics my driveway is not big... at all. the rest are just big bootyheads it is bullsh!t. they are just jealous that they don't have one. for all the cops who are cool and have atvs and let you ride it around your neighborhood, I PRAISE YOU!!! Thanks alot for being awesome. the rest.... lighten up a lil bit. its not like if we find some dirt, we will go make trouble somehow, we just want to ride. let us enjoy our quads while we can... now i am all teary thinking about when we can't ever ride quads. hope that never happens. ok, yeah you get the point, im mad too.... later,
Zach
Posted by: Baseballroxmasox
hehe, thats a good idea. yeah... updated my pics too, you can see how small my driveway it, bout 10 x 20, lmao
Posted by: Baseballroxmasox
"That's hott" -Paris Hilton
I hate her^ But 115, yeah, that is hott.
Posted by: Tass
Its very interesting to read these posts. The discussions cover the topics of Law Enforcement, Private Land Ownership, Public Opinion, Laws, Rules, Regulations, Moving to another State and so on. One individual wants to move to Utah, there is a recent post that indicates 300,000 acres just got locked up in Utah, The USFS has to have a "bad guy" to justify their existance so the ATV user has been chosen. Many of the posts wonder why State and Federal agencies do nothing to help. Our governments on all levels are basically takers, not givers. The movement toward making the masses uniform in activities and needs is nationwide.......Not just NJ, not just Utah, not just Oregon. The tactics are simple.......first you create the LIE and a bad guy................you then sell the lie to the uninformed public.......Then you use tools like the Federal Register, the press, local politicians looking for a vote and you create laws and regulations to give validity to the LIE.
The department of agriculture USFS has even coined a name for any ATV rider that opposes the status quo.......Rogue Riders.........How does it feel to have a title guys and gals??? The effort to lock up and lock out is nation wide, The federal government looking for purchasers of public property in our National Forests....I guess it makes sense though....sell all the public ground........keep the dollars in the Federal budget and then State LE will be responsible for the enforcement..............Tass
Posted by: Tass
In Oregon there is already a license/permit requirement. the only thing it provides though is funding for the agencies regulating you. It provides nothing for the 4 wheeler/ATV user. There are numerous pot plantations and meth labs in the National forests........Its a shame the main thrust of government is to eliminate the recreational user........Tass
Posted by: squeege
LMFAO.....HA HA HAHH
Posted by: squeege
N.J. what more from a state where you cannot even pump your own gas???
"We're so crazy in P.A. wwe pump our own gas" LOL
Posted by: rubberknob
I really think that it's your problem if you can't find a place to ride where you live, and you go out and buy an ATV and then bitch about it. I used to live in the city and I too love ATV's but I would never buy one as it wasen't worth it to me. I moved out into the country where I can ride where ever I want. With that being said one of my first purchases was an ATV. I wouldn't move out to the dessert and buy a jet ski, and then bitch about nowhere to ride it. This seems kinda one sided as if I were younger and lived in NJ I would just ride and if i were caught i'm caught. It would just turn into a game. Catch me one day you win don't catch me I win.
Posted by: rubberknob
You guys are only making the problem worse riding illegally ( its just proving their point). You need to petition or something. Their must be local cops that like to ride? or maybe some politicians or some kinda government status people that enjoy the sport? If you can get a "somebody" (community figure) that would help or aide in your battle. Take it to the news papers or TV, make a loud voice about it so you can be heard. Hey if pot smokers can have their day of smoking pot legally for the day (420, april,20) then there is no reason why ATVers can't. Its a start.
Posted by: dirtdame
I agree with you about not buying an ATV if there's no place to ride it and that's a great analogy with the jetskis, but unfortunately not all of us can move out to the country. I don't agree that riding illegally is the answer. That just gets everyone (residents, police, town officials etc) really po'd. We just lost 2 huge riding areas (Maybrook and Lembo Lake) here in NY in the last 2 months and if we don't start working within the system we'll never have anyplace to ride. You knew there was no place to ride your machine before you bought it and there's still no place to ride it.
Posted by: stumper660
Yah,what are they thinking? Its not like your BREAKING THE LAW or somthing? Its not like your out there giving quads a bad name or somthing! Seriously
Posted by: 800TwinEFI
This may sound silly to you guys, but I don't know how you people stand it. For some of you I'll tell you this...the grass is greener on the other side. I live in Idaho. Yeah...it gets cold in the winter. And it snows here. And your not going to find a job making six figures very often. But I can hop in my truck and hit the highway and be in a national forest out riding in 20 minutes tops. Maybe even 15. And when I say riding...I mean like a 70 mile ride. A good one. With some really great trails. And there lots of people out there just like us. And we all are friendly. Wave at each other as we go by. Tell others about such and such trail. I'm talking about people you have never seen in your life. It's great. The only problem we have is environmental whack job fruit cakes who try and get everything closed down. And thats not a big problem. So it's really nice. If you don't like your state pack up and leave. Don't support it. And if your state does not offer places to ride don't break the law and ride on private land. You'll only fuel the fire for why ATV riders are "evil" and frankly, if you don't have permission it is wrong and you should be busted (sorry...it's true though). Come on up. You'll be glad you did. There is thousands of acres here to enjoy.
Posted by: npdchief
It's sad that there are Loser cops like that. Heres what you should do. Go right over to them and tell them that you know they were picked on as kids and that they are just C.S. Losers. They should go out and chase drug dealers instead of doing what their superiors tell them to do. As we all know cops can do what they want and go whereever they want never listen to superiors. In fact instead of moving to another state, it may be wiser to move to another country where cops are not losers, yeah, like Mexico, Iraq, Sudan, Iran, Russia or some place like that.
I know we need more riding places but there are smarter and better ways to address the situations.
Thanks,
Chief Jerry Carr
Retired
Posted by: ramsfan
the thing I think you need to look at is in most places the reason areas are getting shut down is that, people are doing things that put a negative taste in everyones mouth. If instead of riding illegaly those 60 plus people get together and work with the landowners and see if there is maybe an area you can ride without causeing trouble. (I know ) it is hard but you really need to try to help the cause not hurt it.
Posted by: ramsfan
I believe you are taking the comment the wrong way . Most I have seen are saying that doing it ilegaly is not the solution it only lets them say (see what they are doing) they have no respect for the law so lets ban them. Yes it sucks, I agree with you there, but try some different routes to show them atvs are responcible people and take care of the places they are allowed to ride.
Maybe get a club together and offer to do land cleanup rallys and get there permission to clean up all the junk. (I know) its not your mess and the jerks who put it there should do it but if a group steps up and does this and then asks, the people who own the lands that are being destroyed by trash, if they can allow an organized group some access to the trails to enjoy the land on atvs. I feel someone will step up and say you can ride here on certain times of the year and then eventially more and more.
yes, everybody has done something they shouldnt of sometime but to do it intentialy and then complaining, it is something that isnt always accepted.
here in kansas there is very limited areas to even go ( I ride on the arkansas river bottoms and that is only in the actual river bed) due to it is privately owned on both sides, and most areas that say they are ohv parks wont allow anything but suv and trucks, or even bicycles and horses but no atvs or side by sides
Posted by: ramsfan
Quote
Originally posted by: Vulcan700
What do you think we have done??
I have spent the last 4 years fighting and it is state land that we could us and now they are taking it away. We still pay taxes and the horse riders get to us it and the hunters get to us it and the campers get to us the land just the quads are not. We have asked the state to keep part of the forest open and we also clean it up from the campers and this is the thanks we get. It is something like this you get candy or sex every day for 40 plus years and not I going to take that all away why because we can. I bet you would be pissed and after fighting this for 4 years I am done with it. I pay taxes just like the hunters and campers do but I am told I can't us the state land. That is like saying a black man can't vote or a white man can't have gas anymore. What is the point you guys will never understand and I guess I need to back to nam and just kill people I guess everyone would be happy then.
I would cut myself and use my own blood to make sure the red stripes on our flag would stay red but I can't retire and enjoy what few years I have left riding my quad in the forset where everyone else get to play.
O well I guess I am beating a dead horse here hr>
I know what you mean I cant give you simple solutions however glorying an illegal act is just more fuel for there anti atv fanatics out there. I hate what the so called tree huggers are doing to our society but I can bet with the entire offraod industry we can outnumber and beat them at there own game if we get on the same page with all offroad groups and fight for the right to exist where they dont want us. yes on both sides of this topic there have been some rude or out of line comments but we all need to do all the positive we can for the good of ohv living.
I can tell you every state might not be the same, some are very positive towards the sport and others are more worried about where the next dollar will come from. I have similar issues happening here, but not exactly the same way.
Here where I grew up I cant even hunt on the local land due to all the out of state revenue for leasing the land to hunters. I have been hunting since I was a child and now I am being told because I dont pay 2500.00 plus I cant hunt hwere anymore. So Yes I understand your feelings but if I go out and hunt there anyways I will make it worse and possible go to jail or even get shot. so I am looking into local gun clubs for some help in getting my god given right to hunt and provide food to my family.
I know, I know its not the same as an atv but it is the same political bull. he who has the most money gets listened to and those who care the most are getting forgotten.
just dont make this a place to promote illegal use and also a place to fight each other about it. Yes the cops did take it overboard but the landowner probably pushed it and pushed it and made a big issue with someone in a very high place so the cops were pushed to respond and went overboard. I can bet that some of the officers dont care as long as you dont mess with things you shouldnt, but they were following orders and did what they were told to do.
Posted by: 67x
Quote
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
I just can't take it anymore.EVERY state in the country has done something for orv use BUT not New Jersey.How is it that in Pa,NY and delaware they don't have the problems we do. I'm trying to find a job In some other state so I can move.F this state. Any jobs in Arizona for a Engineer/atv mechanic.
Dude, I just left AZ- couldn't take the crime, the illegals, crowds, etc. I even spent a whole Saturday in a Lowes, off and on and never once heard a commercial or announcement over the P.A. in English! Houses are outrageous, but Ican't complain since I made out selling mine. You'll find work and there are amazing trails averywhere on the outskirts of town in the desert. 2 hour drive anywhere from north to east and you are in high country. In between is loads of high desrt mountain trails. It is ATV heaven if you can put up with all the other crap. Just look on the NW or N side of town- Peoria, Glendale, or Anthem/Desert Hills. If you can handle the freak'n heat and dust, you'll be fine.
Posted by: woodsracertofast
thats crapy,cant even ride around your house without cops, i would put a very quite pipe on there so they couldnt hear me
Posted by: woodsracertofast
yeah,i went to AZ once for vacation,lots of riding but it was 115 degrees every day,sucked!
Posted by: godIlove2ride
Matt,
I understand your frustration with NJ, but why not put your quad in the back of a truck and drive the thing over here to PA and you can ride on our land. We are not usually unfriendly, and if that's what it takes to ride, the I would do whatever I had to do to ride LEGALLY. You are not doing yourself any favors getting chased off by the cops in your area, whether you feel they are wrong or not. You also are not helping your own case of no places to ride by doing that. Just remember cops are not stupid. They will eventually get ahead of you in the game, and be right there to bust you. Just my 2 cents.
Posted by: godIlove2ride
Welcome to the forums Roscoe. I'm not sure where you live in PA but here are some links for you on places to ride in PA. We ride in Michaux State Forest almost every other weekend.
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/atv/atvindex.aspx
www.fs.fed.us/r9/allegheny
http://www.paragonap.com/
Another place to ride is Tower City, you can google it to get information.
Hope this helps, you are always welcome to come ride with us in Michaux, you can find information about that place in the first link.
Posted by: son
I have to agree with the last post. Theres no way that NJ will ever let us ride on public property or state forests, so petitioning and whatnot is out of the question. The problem is, land is so expensive here. A place where i used to ride a lot is up for sale for a good bit over $1,000,000, and its only 60-something acres. And its some rough property to say the least. What we need are sponsors. Lots of them. A large-scale group of riders from the state, along with some ample donations from each, will gain a lot of attention. A lot of land in my area is owned by hunting clubs, and could just as easly be owned by similar sized atv clubs. If anythings going to happen though, it needs to happen soon. All the land is being developed and preserved. That Hovnanian guy is going to start putting a pretty big developement in Sarco soon. I heard it will only take up like 1/6 or 1/7 of the land though. Has anyone ever considered talking with him and trying to work out a deal or something so we can ride there without all Mad Max sh*t going on? Something like that could be the first step in the right direction for something like this. It would take a good deal of responsability on our part though. No loud pipes, liability waivers, self-policing, and keeping the area clean are just a few things to expect. Worst case scenario is that we end up in the same position we're in now.
Posted by: ATVHades
Your best bet is to move to AZ. You can get a job here being a mechanic starting at $18 an hour. Government corruption is so bad in this country. It doesn't matter how many people you get together unless you have Millions of dollars to fight government corruption or pay off corrupted leaders.
If I had millions of dollars I would buy up all the land and charge people a small fee or membership for cleaning purposes and restoring of the land. All ATV'er would be welcome....I would ban horses just to piss those people off..LOL
Posted by: DS2
Wow, I can't believe you are still trying to make your point to people who have no clue what we go through. Go here for a more sympathetic crowd:
http://www.njohva.org/
and clink on forum in the upper right corner.
It's not a very active site due to our state's horrible rules, but every1 there feels your pain. They also orchestrate rides to different places (i.e., PA, WV, etc.).
You can also look at these links if you can travel:
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/atv/atvindex.aspx
http://www.paragonap.com/
http://www.atv-riding.com/scripts/three.asp?REFERRER=OVERTURE_ATV_PENNSYLVANIA&TYPE=ATV&STATENAME=PENNSYLVANIA&OVRAW=burnt%20mills%20atv&OVKEY=burnt%20mills%20atv&OVMTC=standard
http://www.rauschcreekracing.com/rcmp/index.php
http://www.njorvp.org/ (as you probably know it's going away in '08)
Posted by: toyotaguy
i totally get it. almost every good place 2 ride has got cops and ep's everywhere so learn how 2 ride get a fast quad and outrun em. start givin them hell
Posted by: Vulcan700
Riding illegally is not an answerer some one posted ???????
I will not try anymore here in Fl to do the right thing. I will be 200 years old before the government helps and I will not be able to ride when I get that old sorry guys this is un fair to the NJ guys. They have no place to ride in the state like Fl they are taking land away each year because of the tree huggers. They say we don't support the land well we do the ATV's paid over 1 million in fines last year and what did the tree huggers give not one red cent nothing but they win in court for the forest land Horses can us it trucks and campers can us it but no atv's I ride illegally all the time and if they want me to stop give us a place to ride or good luck trying to stop me. Law suits because ATV are what ??? Bad risky sport what about driving a car down the road ???? A 3 or 4 thousand pound car will kill faster then any ATV will and 80 thousand pound truck will level 1/2 a city block going 75 mph. My point is they want less drugs and less problems so the states need to provide a place where the tax paying people can go a enjoy life. The legal system is not working sorry you will spend way to much time doing the right thing and never get to ride your ATV.
Utah is a great state to ride and has a lot to offer over 80% of the state you can ride on. Florida is becoming a lot like NJ soon we will have no place to ride at all. One place crooms cost 75 bucks to ride on the state land PER YEAR and it is so small my back yard is bigger. When you put 200 riders in the place someone gets hurt or you can't see for all the dust in the 5 acre block.
Sorry everyone but that is how I feel and NJ good luck.
Posted by: Vulcan700
You say we are making the problem worse sorry to say I have done everything I can think of went to the county meetings and beg for help from the county (this has been going on for 4 years now). I got my day for sure and when that day came we lost flat out were told no more riding so you want me to move after 40 years living here and now they have taken the sport away from us. I will keep fighting and keep riding and if you think I am going to sell my quads and hope to move one day then buy more quads this is super dumb KEEP RIDING N.J. and I will do the same. I here all this hipe but don't see anyone helping to fix the problem I guess I am the only fighter for my rights. N.Y. is a place I bet that everyone rides illegally the concrete jungle of the world. Where do you think they have fro them to ride ??????
I don't care sorry but I am not giving in to this BS of the states and county telling us all what we can and can't do. I was born in the USA and fought for this countries freedom and this is the thanks I get well that is not going to happen. Ride on illegal riders and I hate the tree huggers they have never done anything for trees or the land.
The flag stands for one thing if you did not know
FREEDOM and if you can drive a car or truck down the road and not ware a helmet for bikes speed run red lights and do what ever I will ride my quad.
I can't wait till I retire and move to Utah so I can ride till my heart is full of the sport I love so much.
#$%@ Florida and N.J. and the non-riding law makers.
Posted by: Vulcan700
I am an outlaw I pay taxes and drive my car and truck like an american and I drive my quad in the forest but when you take that away from my my freedom and the horse riders ans hunters along with the 4 wheel drive not to say about the camper can still us the land I am pay taxes it has gone a little to far. I live less than a 1/2 from the huge forest and will keep riding my quad and if you could understan what we have gone through you could understand or may be your a tree hugger ???? and hate quads or just do want your little world to be closed what ever the case is It is not fair so I vote to keep riding and if that is an outlaw well so be it. I guess it is a big deal riding a quad in the forest here and killing is not or raping is ok to you can drink beer and drive drunk and smoke pot and sell it to kids but God forbid you ride your quad.
BEST NEWS IS N.J. ATV"S ARE FIGHTING BACK WOOHOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO Fixitmatt
KILL THEM ALL LET GOD SORT THEM OUT
Posted by: Vulcan700
Fixitmatt
It is fine you are doing great. The ones that are basking you & me are not Gods. They have all broken the law and have done it know they are. Let one of them tell me thay have never went over the speed limit or has always come to a complete stop at a stop sign. They all have do something to break the law so I would tell each of them to not through stones when they live in glass houses. Like you say it is fine to drink and get drunk ans gamble you money away so their kids can't have food or something like that but God forbid a quad rider us the state parks for riding that you pay taxes on. The states & goverment is so screwed up thousands of golf courses the land alone on them could supply enough land for every person in the us to have a home on ??? Golf o well that is true look it up anyway I will keep fighting and I will keep making people mad but that is ok I will never give up other then on the people that want me to quit and go away like some post here BR>Cops are public servants and your taxes pay the tab on that to.
I am to old to fight the ones who will not follow us but then again they are the ones who will lose when they are still trying to fight the system and they are 200 years old with nothing done.
Posted by: Vulcan700
What do you think we have done??
I have spent the last 4 years fighting and it is state land that we could us and now they are taking it away. We still pay taxes and the horse riders get to us it and the hunters get to us it and the campers get to us the land just the quads are not. We have asked the state to keep part of the forest open and we also clean it up from the campers and this is the thanks we get. It is something like this you get candy or sex every day for 40 plus years and not I going to take that all away why because we can. I bet you would be pissed and after fighting this for 4 years I am done with it. I pay taxes just like the hunters and campers do but I am told I can't us the state land. That is like saying a black man can't vote or a white man can't have gas anymore. What is the point you guys will never understand and I guess I need to back to nam and just kill people I guess everyone would be happy then.
I would cut myself and use my own blood to make sure the red stripes on our flag would stay red but I can't retire and enjoy what few years I have left riding my quad in the forset where everyone else get to play.
O well I guess I am beating a dead horse here BR>
Posted by: raptorSE
lol i got caught by a conservation agent now to stop the hassle i just run droper in 2nd hit the chain link fence post and ride up and over
DO i break the law NO but when the state files charges on you cause the land owner dont care
you god damn right police need to go get the drug dealers and thieves all im doing is BS'ing on some trails havin fun
Posted by: kingbutthead
Just do what i do alway's have a full tank of gas they can't chase ya forever lol just joking ... but seriousley i'v goten in more trouble riding on private land ie. designated jogging and horse trails in nj. then just riding down the open road i'v had many cop's just pass me by cruzin down the street on a dirtbike or quad they never gave a second look when it snow's eavrybody's ridin down the road it's insane right through town i wouldnt go cruisin the blaster in broad daylight right down mainstreet in the middle of summer but it's not that bad guy's come on i'd rather opt to pass a stret legal quad in a populated area think about it all the dirt roads ya want then who cares if ya pop off the beaten path for a bit
Posted by: recon250submarine
yeh...its getting pretty freaking ridiculous.....my dads friend is a cop and he said that his chief of our town said that hismain priority is to catch all these atvers and dirt bikers! like wtf, theres a decent piece of land in my town, toms river ...that they shouyld like make an atving place. if they cahrge like 20 buks for a yearly membership, i bet they'd make tons of money.! then, they really wouldnt have to chase us out of the woods and stuff.....
man, i saw that pit in jackson today for the first time and i REALLY wanna go riding there! my quad is too slow so im not gonna go (too slow to get away from the cops lol) but n.j. really should just designate a HUGE pice of land and make it a place for everybody... like paragon or something...they'd probablyy make a killer as far as money goes.....
Posted by: Roscoe007
Fixitmatt ,You should expend every ounce of your riding woes ,to someone In NJ Land management. You need to get signatures and submitt them to your local rep. ,who will bring it up at the next meeting. I hate to see so much good energy being wasted! I agree with you about NJ riding areas,there should be more. The police are called in by the land owners,and or ,there insurance companys ,who are paying for law suits , when someone gets seriously hurt in an accident on there land.
Tell the state ....I will sign ALL my rights to sue away, if you make me some awesome Tracks and Trails!
Posted by: Roscoe007
Any directions for the Riding in PA ?
Posted by: Roscoe007
Please let me know where I am Welcome to ride in PA ...I live in PA ...Thanks Roscoe
Posted by: ozarkhunter
There are a few places still left here in arkansas and we have millions of acres that are public lands that have old logging roads or primative roads that would not be hurt not one bit by an atv. Another thing is in the spring we get alot of rain so that causes erosion it is natural, been doing it for years and will still be doing it for years to come even after we are gone. Riding atvs is not even a drop in the bucket when it comes to the distruction of the earth.
Now that I have got that off my chest why dont atv companys try to persuade governments that there could be money to be made. A friend and I have talked and we agree that many would gladly pay for an atv liscense or get some use permit or regester it like a boat if it would help develove more places to ride. If places to ride are shut down and there are not new ones opening up atv companys are going to loose a lot of money so you would think they would try to protect their future. If there is anyone on here who work for these companys mabe they should ponder this fact.
Posted by: booboobear
say fixitmatt, next time they come, offer them a cup of coffee and a donut
Posted by: jetmotoracer
fixitmatt i hear u where i live in N.J and threr is a tun of pits but u cant ride in them ether u usta and they didnt give u any crap..... this one pit witch was the best they started minein agen...sand dirt etc but they usea chase u out with trucks tractors etc... and they blocked the entrences but that doesnt stop us.... i dont ride in those ones tho cuss i have 17 acers of woods to ride in but there is on pit i ride in some times near my freind that they could care less about and thats the smallest one tho...... i have to ride down therail road tracks and a rail road bridge,(witch is very bumpy and blew out my rear shock) or 10 minets in qa truck.... with the help of my dad...... but any way it sucks cuss there is relly not any where to ride other than my house...... so iv got alot of freinds...lol...jk.... but there usta be a track down the street but it closed and i dont feel like tellin the story tho...and places u can ride in N.J u have to have it insured and rejistered .... and people are like o im not gunna get hurt and sue them ....... but some of my freinds cant even handle bikes...... or want them and cant handle them...except for my one frereind he is relly good ... i think it runs in his blood..... but any way to the point u cant bo any thing in N.J with out it beeing ileagle....
Posted by: pimpsmurf
Quote
So you'll be an outlaw and that makes you happy about the democracy you fought for? What about the freedom of the majority who don't want ATVs on their public lands? You do remember what majority rule is in a democracy? Be adult about it and pursue a different hobby until you're in Utah or somewhere less congested.
Majority rule (aka mob rule) is a pure democracy. We live in a representative republic, not a democracy. Hence, the rule of law (not rule of the mob) is what we fight for.
-JNY
Posted by: pimpsmurf
Quote
Originally posted by: ozarkhunter
Riding atvs is not even a drop in the bucket when it comes to the distruction of the earth.
OMG! What about all the psycological harm you are causing to the poor poor birds and squirels? If one bird has a heart attack because you cranked up your ATV, you should be drug into the streets and shot. Maybe they even want to drag you behind your ATV after you bleed out! BR>
Quote
Now that I have got that off my chest why dont atv companys try to persuade governments that there could be money to be made. A friend and I have talked and we agree that many would gladly pay for an atv liscense or get some use permit or regester it like a boat if it would help develove more places to ride. If places to ride are shut down and there are not new ones opening up atv companys are going to loose a lot of money so you would think they would try to protect their future. If there is anyone on here who work for these companys mabe they should ponder this fact.
If there are THAT many people who want to ride ATVs, and absolutely no place to ride legally, why not open up a private ATV club and lease some land. Yearly memberships can cover cost of the lease and maintainence, but this might still be a problem in NJ w/ noise laws and such. We have a practice MX track near my house that homeowners 2 miles away tried to shut down as it was being constructed. They ended up denying the owners of the land a zoning change, so it's a private ($25 annual) membership track. It's pretty nice, but it's not like the woods. I really want to get out exploring when my ATV gets here.
The problem is, in South Carolina, the state has 2-3 HUGE places to ride ATVs, but it's not as much of a problem here as long as you don't cause trouble, or drive in the streets. There are NEVER cops on my road unless there is serious business for them to deal with. I'm lucky enough to live somewhere I can ride around on dirt roads near my house without drawing too much attention (the roads are just access roads for the farmers.) Unfortunately, if I want to go somewhere other than the 2-3 MX/SX race tracks around here to ride, I have to go 2-4 hours. It sucks because I'm less than 1 hour from one of the giant state parks with OHV trails, but I have to drive 2-3 hours to get to a legit access point for the trails. I'm not really interested in jumping or MX style riding. Maybe some small rollers and such, but I really want to get in the sand! dunes and climbing and such. There is suppose to be a place about an hour away people call Little Sahara, but I don't think it's a park, just a peice of land no one bothers with. I'm trying to find out more about it.
I'm also thinking about going to the big ATV park between Columbia and Charlette this summer. It might be rad. I really want to find some cool trails with some hilly areas to ride.
-JNY
Posted by: sled05
I dont know about NJ, but if you look at a tax map of NY that intercepts with private and state land, it says
Reputed owner, the people of the state of NY.
We should all be entitled the right to use a portion of our state land for our desired recreation.
Posted by: 2kredz3
You can always come to Georgia, we have state parks set up for ATV / UTV riders that are free. . .most are about 30ish miles of trails. . .one park toward the east of the state has well over 300 mi of trails but they charge 25 bux to enter.
i will say tho, in Georgia the local cops get real upset when they find you on state property not designated for ATV/UTV use. such as the power line road (anyone in north Ga knows this as BIG TOWER)
iv never been caught by the cops out there never really had to run but i have heard of whole groups getting caught and arrested. . .the power lines run from north west atlanta to north east GA maybe into TN/SC you can go for miles with out seeing anything but mountains. (like 50+mi) but now, the trails are starting to get over grown because of the cops cracking down on riders. . .
im not really sure why the cops care so much about ATV/UTV riders under the power lines. It is almost like there is some secret that they dont want anyone to know about? the trails just go the rout the high tension lines all the way to the power plant in cartersville. so the land under them is clear away. makes for awesome riding, its to bad that they are cracking down. but atleast Georgia has some state parks that are open to us.
To the OP, i agree that you should not lay on your back and get f'ed by the cops. however, i also think it would be a much better idea to contact the owners of the land and see if you can work out an agreement. such as with their help opening up a park on that land that will make them and you money. keep your mind open do your homework on what kind of profits you can expect and what insurance they will need to have on the property. i bet if you went deep into where you were riding you would find that the owner is just worried about getting sued if someone gets hurt. a good way to avoid that is to call the police ever time someone is seen riding on the lot.
2 cents.
Posted by: killakevbeastmode
Originally posted by: Fixitmatt
blaster200fmf,, The people in the other states shouldn't worry about guys from N.j bringing heat from cops,,,Because we are the best riders at hiding from site. I've been riding alot in Pa lately and i see all the guys who live there don't even try to be out of site when It come to parking their trucks,,Me on the other hand,I hide my truck out of site,,so this way No one knows I'm even from Jersey.
As for the state of N.J. ------It's bullsh!t------Ive been saying it for years. New Jersey Needs to pass a law that states : if you ride or drive any ORV on private lands and get hurt ,YOU CAN NOT SUE THE LAND OWNER. then they need to make money by allowing atv riding in some state forest land,and charge us to ride there. Our one track in the state is crap,some people don't like tracks and a switch back trail ride that isn't even wide enough to get out of 2nd gear.ANY real atver would get bored there real quick.
I here that!
Thats how you know a riders from JERSEY! Where I live in Jersey its all Newark watershed Prop. MY WHOLE COMMUNITY HAS SOME SORT OF ORV, so we all ride illegal, we have all the sting cops on quads, but the sorry F@cks cant catch you unless you get caught up crossing railraod tracks, it does suck in Jersey, but my thing is, I have been riding here since I was a little kid, back when nobody cared you rode, I am 31 and as a matter of fact my father is 56 we still ride together, all illegal, So New Jersey riders may all be OutLaws, dub us what you will, WE WILL NEVER STOP RIDING.
I've been to Chatsworth, is SUCKS, its for little kids, and beginers. period. The real reason they are losing it cause nobody goes there, its not worth the 300.00 member fee, or the 50 a day B.S. And yeah the Homo cops in Jersey who sweat ATV'ers should die. They suck, they would rather the atv population smoke crack or sell drugs cause its easier for them to manage, cause believe you me them PUNK A$$ B!tches aint catchin me. F@ck The POLICE. Oh yeah, I meant to sound ignorant, I am the way this great state made me!
Posted by: DustyJones
Dude, Jersey sucks. You should definitely move.
