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Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: weez440
i guess in our own way are environmentalists but we take care of our forrests and land in our own way and time we don't sit down in the twin cities complaining about this stuff which we have no idea what it is about. i say let northern mn govern northern mn it is us that have to live here so they should leave us alone.
What a load.
The truth is - The forests in northern MN have become "in your own way" the ever so prevalent low-rent trailer trash I'm not paying for rubbish removal garbage dumps. Sometimes I can't ride 5 miles without finding another pickup truck load of household garbage dumped out by the side of a trail or on the parameter road of just about any non-developed lake. Any marsh area path that will support a ATV above its fenders is mulched into swamp muck and anything that looks like a hill has been defoliated like a tanker truck of agent orange was dumped on it and it is eroded to beat heck with several two track ruts going up and back down it. Locals use the lakes and streams to wash the black swamp muck from their ATVs putting all that swamp mulch and crappola in the lakes and there seems to be some kind of contest of who can throw the gravel from every guys driveway the farthest. Instead of varying their path they choose to rut-up the ditches leaving them scared and eroded and god forbid there is a puddle of water or some Jr. future pillar of society will spend 6 hours going threw it over and over and over again. Oh – Did I mention the lack of mufflers? It doesn&39;t make anyone actually go measurably faster but half the juveniles on quads don&39;t seem to have one because it sounds like they are.
No brother - you can BS yourself or those who have not been out in the woods up there - but you can't BS those of us who have been up north and seen how some with the back-woods mentality manage things when "left alone". I guess if I wanted to live a life without rules for sanitation, environmental responsibility or any kind of unexamined lifestyle I would want to be left alone also. But that will never happen.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: hondabuster
WhoDatInDaMud, Unfortunetly i can attest to what youre saying.
Why dont the environmentalists go after these people who just dump in the woods? Wouldnt this be a bigger problem than just people riding a quad or motorcycle?...
Becuase the same trailer trash hypocrates who are dumping thier garbage in the woods to save their money for beer are the ones complaining about the ATV' riders who pull their discarded bill collection letters from the bottom of those trash piles and present them to the local authorities. At least I do. There is a correlation between the ultra enviromentalist and those who think their garbage is someone elses problem.
I've filled roll-off dumpsters with the trash, matteresses and garbage from low-life pond scum-sucking pimple faced hat on backwards jerk baits who drive rusted out POS jacked up 4x4 trucks down ATV trails so they can haul their soon to be knocked-up 14 year old girl friends back into the woods for a little north woods hanky panky. And they don't even think twice about throwing their 3.2 beer bottles out into the lake or into the marsh that flows into it.
Somebody else will clean it up. Maybe them dammed city folks with all their fancy new trucks and rules and regulations can come up here and clean up after me.... ha ha ha ha
brings visions of "Deliverence" and other hillbilly scenes to mind doesn't it?
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
LOL - well.... we rode 100 miles in the Biwabik, Aurora and Gilbert areas this last weekend. There were so many broken booze bottles that glass has become the #1 trail hazard. The 4x4s have pulled to the side the huge boulders used to block the trails from the 4X's and not to far into the wood did we find beds, recliners, couches, stoves - piles of household waste, yard clippings and leafs and bags and bags of discarded clothing. Numerious couch cushions were found in unlikely places. I can't even begin to figure out why.
With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota Its no wonder we must struggle so badly to create new riding oppertunities.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: mninstructor
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Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota Its no wonder we must struggle so badly to create new riding oppertunities.
I've lived in this area for the last 15 years and rode here for 4 years. I'll admit when I first moved here I saw a few old stoves, a couple old car fenders and even one old car body from the 40's. I later found out this was all very near an old, now closed county garbage dump. I guess when they closed it and landscaped, they missed a few items.
Recliners, couches, piles of household waste....I've never seen them. So many broken booze bottles that glass has become the #1 trail hazard....give me a break!! If I or any of my club members ever see anything on a trail, we stop and pick it up and have never seen glass on the trails here.
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Any marsh area path that will support a ATV above its fenders is mulched into swamp muck
I just looked at your pictures. There is one there of your wife and her bike covered in swamp muck. It kind of looks like Marsh AREA Muck
A question for you: Being a DNR safety instuctor, you should know the riding laws, right? Where were you riding (100 miles) in this area? There are NO legal riding trails here except within the OHV park! All those other trails are mining company and MN Power properties and posted! Sounds like a little tresspassing going on to me!!
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With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota
Maybe you should not come to northern MN and just stay in that pristene metro area.hr>
LOL.... wow... if you don&39;t like our trash and rubbish then stay home...lol Now that&39;s a good one ...eh...
1) There is one brown and one yellow recliner along the trail near a little lake south west of McKinley, you can likely still find those. And several of the couch cushions are on a hill east of where Belgrade use to be.
2) There were numerous broken beer and booze bottles between Aurora and Hoyt lakes. We do our part also and we picked up the larger fragments so your not going to find those but the really shattered ones we would bury. We carry a shovel for just such purpose. This was north of the lake above Aurora. You are welcome.
3) I noticed recently that trails around Hoyt lakes are marked ATV trails. They must be realizing the economic boost of the tourist riders. Your "club" needs to get out more.
4) Being a DNR instructor much consideration was taken to legal riding in that area. This is our 3rd year riding up their. I personally spoke with the county sheriffs office, the Biwabik police and the DNR at Gilbert. Their are posted areas but much of the land is mining tax forfeit state property without any designation, I was told. No prohibition to ride on the existing trails (former RR beds mostly) or where its not posted. We come across authority&39;s all the time, in fact - we ride with a St. Louis county deputy occasionally. I don't think we are in violation.
5) That picture of my wife was taken in the Sherwood Forest campground adjacent to the Gilbert OHV Park during the ATVAM spring convention a few years ago. Your about as wrong with your assumptions as a person can get.
Their are some people up north that are making the area look bad, but I have no anti- Iron range agenda and I don&39;t intend to make any enemies with the decent and responsible people who live their. But you have no credibility with me when you argue there is NO glass and NO riding areas as I have picked up the glass and I have been on the marked ATV trails and I've been riding there with the full knowledge and as far as I understand, the "consent" of law enforcement.
It is hard to beleive that two people can have two very different expereinces riding in the same area. Maybe I'm more sensitive to taking note of it. But I have the facts to support my posting. Or I know exactly where I buried them.
Posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
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Originally posted by: weez440
gilbert is NOT northern minnesota that is more eastern central minnisota so don't compare that part of the state with where i live which is basically northwestern. yes i am aware that gilbert has a nice large and popular atv park there and that is great for our atving, but when it becomes that popular you will have more people coming from outside the area who don't care or just people who live there and don't care who will throw stuff off and say it is someone elses problem.
Ok - so geography isn't your strong point...lol
Lets try .... Math!
Its about 375 miles from Iowa to Warroad - straight line
Its about 300 miles from Iowa to Gilbert - straight line
If the state is 375 miles and you divide that into equal thirds - southern, central and northern, then you have distances of say - 125 miles of Southern MN, 125-250 miles = Central MN and 250-375 miles is Northern Minnesota. At 300 miles Gilbert would be well within the northern MN segment.
One could pretend they are part of "another" northern MN from Warroad but the math does not support that.
I think many people see anything north of say...Brainard (200 miles north of Iowa) - as northern MN. But if you live in Warroad - Brainard is down south. But then again - from Warroad - there is only about 7 miles of Northern MN before you reach Can na da.
Posted by: modquad
Any way you can link it w/o having us have to sign up/log in?
Posted by: modquad
Thank you for your troubles.
Posted by: wheelinforlife
I ride by Hoyt Lakes a lot And i barely see any garbage around on the trails. The swamp lands are a great place to ride over here also. A atv cannot do that much damage at all look how small they are. I had a lady come up to me couple months ago and say damn you atvers and snowmobiles for tearing up mother nature and killing our air we breath. I was like give me a flippin break lady. I told her to look at the piece of sh!t car she was driving and how her old wagon was putting fumes in the air more then I. On how much wider is the road SHE drives on is then a atv trail. STUPID LIBERAL TWITS!
Posted by: reconranger
It is interesting that back there you seem to have a large amount of "state forests". Out here, there are HUGE amounts of federal land, and very little state land at all. (The state does run some very nice vehicular recreation areas however.) If you said "DNR" out here in the west, nobody would have any idea what you are talking about.
My sister lives in Wisconsin, and if they even traget shoot on their own land, the DNR is all over them like the Gestapo. I guess they are worried about poaching, but my impression is that they are very heavy handed.
Posted by: hondabuster
This was in fridays paper.
whole story
ATV bill lets DNR decide where riders can go
A Minnesota House bill gives the Department of Natural Resources more discretion over where drivers of off-road machines, such as ATVs can go in state forests north of U.S. 2
Posted by: hondabuster
Geez , I hate that crap too. I suppose i dont see it because i already have the cookie. Heres the story
ATV bill lets DNR decide where riders can range
BY DENNIS LIEN
Pioneer Press
Given the chance, would drivers of off-road vehicles power anywhere through state forests in northern Minnesota? Or would they stick to clearly established routes?
That debate, seemingly address- ed by the Legislature two years ago, is coming to a head again.
A Minnesota House bill gives the Department of Natural Resources more discretion over where drivers of off-road machines, such as all-terrain vehicles could go in state forests north of U.S. 2, in the northern quarter of the state. Depending on who's talking, that's either an enlightened choice or a recipe for disaster.
The legislation, contained in a larger environment bill that could be voted on as early as Monday, also could lead to ATVs on a popular state trail north of Lake Superior. It would increase fines for drivers who damage wetlands and funnel $200,000 a year to off-road clubs for enforcement and education purposes. Almost 224,000 ATVs were registered in the state last year.
Environmental groups oppose the legislation and argue it breaks a compromise reached in 2003 by lawmakers and Gov. Tim Pawlenty. But off-road groups support it and say they never agreed to any such deal.
"That's their little fantasy,' said Ray Bohn, a spokesman for several off-road organizations. "I don't remember compromising with them.'
"It's outrageous to claim there was not some kind of compromise,' said Matt Norton, a lawyer for the Minnesota Center for Environmental Advocacy.
The two sides are equally combative over what off-road users do in northern forests when given some discretion.
Two years ago, most lawmakers were convinced that the vehicles were damaging forests and ordered the DNR to review 57 state forests and either close them to ATVs or confine them to posted trails. So far, only four of those efforts have been completed; another nine are pending.
Off-road enthusiasts, however, want to give the DNR commissioner authority to allow ATVs on all trails that aren't specifically closed. A bill sponsored by Rep. Tom Hackbarth, R-Cedar, would provide it. He could not be reached for comment Thursday.
Environmentalists said the bill would allow drivers to go on any path, however faint and however new. But Bohn didn't think they'd do that.
"I think that's just a theory,' Bohn said. "And I don't subscribe to that theory. Is it possible? I suppose it's possible. Is it probable? No. People stay on trails.'
"That's a joke,' Norton responded. "How does anyone think we got 7,000 miles of renegade user-created trails on state forestland? It's a naked assertion that flies in the face of all facts and common sense.'
"This bill basically allows off-highway vehicles to run roughshod through Minnesota state forests,' added Sean Wherley, communications director for Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness.
Bohn said a proposal to pay off-road clubs to help monitor ATV behavior and to educate drivers about rules is based on successful programs in Michigan and Wisconsin.
"This is an attempt to police ourselves,' Bohn said. "I think it is going to do more to help with what the problems are than anything we can do at the Capitol.'
Norton wasn't impressed.
"This takes us back to the bad old days, only worse, because now there are more machines out there,' he said.
No comparable legislation is moving in the Senate.
Earlier this year, a more restrictive bill sponsored by Sen. John Marty, DFL-Roseville, was defeated in the committee that Marty chairs. Two bills favored by off-road users, meanwhile, never got a vote.
Observers, however, expect to see off-road amendments when a related bill reaches the Senate floor.
Posted by: hondabuster
Mn is mostly farm land in the south, and heavily wooded in the northeast. We have some federal land, like the superior national forest, but it seems like the majority of the public land is state owned.
We have out share of tree huggers, and they are vocal, but if the majority of the riders would only go where they belong, and not go boonie busting, they would calm down.
Actually in MN, the dnr is on our side...they want people to use the resources, however they want it done responsibly.
Posted by: hondabuster
WhoDatInDaMud, Unfortunetly i can attest to what youre saying.
Why dont the environmentalists go after these people who just dump in the woods? Wouldnt this be a bigger problem than just people riding a quad or motorcycle?
Last time i was up there, my brother and i were riding out of hoyt lakes, and every spur and turn off and minor or major trail we took, was blocked by garbage, with in the first 50 feet. It was just disgusting. Then later on in the bar, all we heard was how the big city people are the ones who are ruining it for everyone. Unbelievable.
Posted by: weez440
there are alot of state forrests up here and we are pretty heavily wooded and alot of farmland. i have seen very few renegade trails and have never seen it a problem. it is basically what has been said it is just environmentalists blowing things out of proportion and they sicken me. maybe in the cities i could see people who see pavement buildings and cars all day being environmentalists for future generations to enjoy and whatnot. but they get this idea put in their heads that we are a bunch of renegade riders which just plain isn't true. i can guarantee you that you would have to look awefully hard up here to find an environmentalist. everyone up here enjoys the outdoors and i guess in our own way are environmentalists but we take care of our forrests and land in our own way and time we don't sit down in the twin cities complaining about this stuff which we have no idea what it is about. i say let northern mn govern northern mn it is us that have to live here so they should leave us alone. and thank you for posting this article honda it is appreciated on my part to see what they have to say down there and it appears in alot of the articles that they favor atv's
Posted by: weez440
lol tone it down a lil bit whodat. how did we get on the subject of garbage and lifted up rusty trucks and trailor trash????? either way it was still entertaining. i dunno where you guys ride and see this but i haven't seen anything that bad of corse you are gonna have people who don't care thats anywhere you go. and you will have trailor trash hillbilly's wherever you go to i can't stand those people anyways lol and i agree 100 percent about loud pipes specially in more populated area's me myself i don't have loud pipes on a fourwheeler it is just annoying riding next to someone wiht them but as long as they stay out of populated area's it isn't a problem.
Posted by: weez440
gilbert is NOT northern minnesota that is more eastern central minnisota so don't compare that part of the state with where i live which is basically northwestern. yes i am aware that gilbert has a nice large and popular atv park there and that is great for our atving, but when it becomes that popular you will have more people coming from outside the area who don't care or just people who live there and don't care who will throw stuff off and say it is someone elses problem.
Posted by: weez440
lol you know you are good whodat lol don't ask but i got my opinion on what northern minnnesota is and you got yours so leave it be.
Posted by: XtremeSkier
People, People, can't we all just get alongBR>
But this is a very intresting subject.
Everybody has alot of different opinions on what they've found or not found on the trail.
I personally have not seen very much garbage, but I have seeen broken bottles and old barb wire, but other then that garbage isnt a problem.
I havent ridden on state trails very often but the ones I road on were very well maintained and in great shape.
I generally ride on private property when I go out riding so there all my trails and my nieghbors trails so I clean them up if I want to and I have.
It's just hard for ATV riders here because if some1 that is'nt an ATV enthusiast see's tracks causing damage they always lead to ATV's. Half the time its frickin trucks and dirtbikes! Dirtbikes have already been banned everywhere in the state ecept private property and in closed competition . Hopefully things turn around and they dont do the same to the quads because I dont know what I would do if I wouldnt be able to ditch ride and have fun cruisin with my friends.
The future is up to us in the ATV industry.
Posted by: XtremeSkier
off topic but i actually love northern minnesota, i get to go up there a few time's everywinter for ski races and it so beautiful off of the lake and it's just quiet and kinda has its own thing going on. My all time favorite city to go to is Duluth, sweet city, its like uve left minneosta and are just like, somewhere else, cool townBR>
whodat-Theres gonna be trailer trash everywhere in minnesota, not just one place, but its not like every1 except u is trailer trash, some ppl arent and u should judge them just because of where they live dude
Posted by: DeeDawg
Where I do most of my riding, I don't see anything like what whodat or hondabuster are saying. Most of the guys I ride with haul out far more trash than they drag in. For this reason we see very little trash on the trails, and the trails are not nearly tore up as discribed, and I very rarely see tracks go off trail. And when the tracks go off trail, it is usually in the winter when the ground is frozen.
Posted by: DeeDawg
whodat: Your posts sound as if your opinion of anyone from north of the cities is white trash. Perhaps that not the way you mean it, but that is how you come off.
The area you discribe may be "up north" to you, but it is "down south" to a lot of people, myself included. Where I ride I have NEVER seen the likes of what you discribe. Just thinking of it makes me sick to my stomach. I have never seen any house-hold goods out on any trails. Bottles, cans and etc, yes (we usually stop to pick these up), couches, mattresses, etc, never.
I hope the "trailer trash hypocrates low-life pond scum-sucking pimple faced hat on backwards jerk baits who drive rusted out POS jacked up 4x4 trucks down ATV trails so they can haul their soon to be knocked-up 14 year old girl friends back into the woods for a little north woods hanky panky" stay "down south".
Posted by: mninstructor
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Originally posted by: WhoDatInDaMud
LOL - well.... we rode 100 miles in the Biwabik, Aurora and Gilbert areas this last weekend. There were so many broken booze bottles that glass has become the #1 trail hazard. The 4x4s have pulled to the side the huge boulders used to block the trails from the 4X's and not to far into the wood did we find beds, recliners, couches, stoves - piles of household waste, yard clippings and leafs and bags and bags of discarded clothing. Numerious couch cushions were found in unlikely places. I can't even begin to figure out why.
With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota Its no wonder we must struggle so badly to create new riding oppertunities.
I've lived in this area for the last 15 years and rode here for 4 years. I'll admit when I first moved here I saw a few old stoves, a couple old car fenders and even one old car body from the 40's. I later found out this was all very near an old, now closed county garbage dump. I guess when they closed it and landscaped, they missed a few items.
Recliners, couches, piles of household waste....I've never seen them. So many broken booze bottles that glass has become the #1 trail hazard....give me a break!! If I or any of my club members ever see anything on a trail, we stop and pick it up and have never seen glass on the trails here.
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Any marsh area path that will support a ATV above its fenders is mulched into swamp muck
I just looked at your pictures. There is one there of your wife and her bike covered in swamp muck. It kind of looks like Marsh AREA Muck
A question for you: Being a DNR safety instuctor, you should know the riding laws, right? Where were you riding (100 miles) in this area? There are NO legal riding trails here except within the OHV park! All those other trails are mining company and MN Power properties and posted! Sounds like a little tresspassing going on to me!!
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With Pigs like this in northern Minnesota
Maybe you should not come to northern MN and just stay in that pristene metro area.
Posted by: mninstructor
1.) Never rode there. so they could be there. That sounds like just out of the OHV park by your descriptoion.
2.)So you found a couple of bottles. That couldn't have happened anywhere else but where the "pigs"live? I'm glad you picked up the glass. Did you say that was between Aurora and Hoyt Lakes? The only way to get to Hoyt Lakes from Aurora is on a state snowmobile trail, which is closed to ATV's. How about that big swamp and creek crossing in there?
3.)The trails in Hoyt Lakes are one loop around the town. As far as I know they were put there for the locals to ride, when they closed many others in Superior Natn'l Forest that they used to ride. Of course anyone is welcome to ride them.
4.) Some of that may be true. But from McKinley to Biwabik, you ride an old railroad grade, which may be OK but it ends right in the Canadian National Railroad yard in Biwabik. Which means about 1/4 mile of tresspassing there. From Biwabik to Aurora you have to now ride on another state snowmobile trail and a paved biking trail. Both off limits to ATVs.
5.)That sure does not look like the red ore mud at the OHV park but I suppose it could have come from a nearby trail
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"when you argue there is NO glass and NO riding areas as I have picked up the glass and I have been on the marked ATV trails"
My apologies about the glass you found and thank you for cleaning it up. I am sorry to tell you that the only marked ATV trails are in the OHV park and around Hoyt Lakes. Those orange markers everywhere else are for the snowmobile trails.
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"Their are some people up north that are making the area look bad, but I have no anti- Iron range agenda and I don&39;t intend to make any enemies with the decent and responsible people who live their"
So you write this on a public forum: " I guess if I wanted to live a life without rules for sanitation, environmental responsibility or any kind of unexamined lifestyle I would want to be left alone also." and "low-life pond scum-sucking pimple faced hat on backwards jerk baits who drive rusted out POS jacked up 4x4 trucks down ATV trails so they can haul their soon to be knocked-up 14 year old girl friends back into the woods for a little north woods hanky panky. and "brings visions of "Deliverence" and other hillbilly scenes to mind doesn't it?"
Dude next time you are coming up to ride leave a post. We would like to ride with you show you that there are regular normal folks living here and not the trailer trash you make us out to be
