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Posted by: Adirondack
I am going to a DEC (Dept of Enviro Conservation) hearing, in NY, this afternoon to speak against a proposed ban on all ATVs, and off road motorcycles, in the Adirondack Mtns, and Catskill Mtns, of NY. The DEC is holding public hearings, but has been given the authority, by the state legislature, to ban the use of ATVs, w/ a departmental edict. They do not even require legislative approval. Many dealers, and clubs, have organized to have as many enthusiasts as possible at these hearings. It is a constant battle to protect our rights to ride. IF you are fortunate enough to live in an area where trails are legal, and plentiful, count your blessings and do not take it for granted.
Posted by: blackballed
Not linkable for some reason.....
Posted by: blackballed
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Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
"...Seems that if they close an area, they have to pay the government back all the funds used... not too many local authorities have the means to do that...."
Very interesting (thanks)...has the Blue Ribbon Coalition grown to the point where they are focusing equally as hard on problems east of the Mississippi as they have been on the west of it? I was told at one time that this was (understandably) their main focus.
Posted by: blackballed
You took the words right out of my mouth, DB.
We have two choices:
#1) Folks start joining clubs that will (hopefully) educate those who evidently harbor the misunderstandings we see exhibited above.....
or...
#2)....these same clubs start partnering with law enforcement and supporting legislation which heavily fine and impound the rigs of those not willing to listen.
I see it to be no more complicated than this and something that we ran out of time trying to determine if these "uneducated" statistics were significant enough to be having a legacy-affecting impact....a long time ago.
The problem with this solution is the same as it is with "pay to play". There are many out there who will complain about the inevitable increased fees we will all face; just as much as they will about an increased law enforcement presence. And I'm sorry, but many of these riders would be the same dues-paying club members that we have right now (thus ushering in what they themselves have created through their flat-out refusal to police their own....the age of zero tolerance).
Posted by: Dragginbutt
I am not sure of the authenticity of the article, as in many cases things get blown out of proportion many times in the telling. I do know a few things though. The call to action is real. Joining your voice to organizaations such as the Blue ribbon coalition is a good way to combat this action. They have been at teh forefront of most of the battles being fought, and winning them on a regular basis. Also, for those wondering, if government funds were used to build or improve trails.. then it is nearly impossible to close them... as that would be waste.. and we all know how the government frowns on that. Several closed areas were forced back open in recent years. Seems that if they close an area, they have to pay the government back all the funds used... not too many local authorities have the means to do that.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
I'd have to say yes, in that many of the issues they are dealing with are national issues. For example, they are responsible for openning the logging roads in the nation's forests to off road. As you know, the environmentalists were suing the Forest service to limit road use. This was one of the driving factors behind all the survey work the states are now struggling to accomplish. They successfully argued that lands should remain open unless it can be proven that there is damage being done etc and that the enviro lobby could not give an accurate accounting of which roads etc, since there was not viable list of what was an official trail, and what was not..
In addition, they have managed to get some areas re-opened because of the fed funding laws. The Fed funding is a double edge sword that has been working in our favor recently and they have been successful in enforcing the rules.
I do agree that it may appear that they are focused on Western issues.. as it makes up the majority of their work, but I have to to think it is because the majority of national reserve lands are West of the big ditch...
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Good luck to all of you. I hope you can turn the numbers of people it is going to take to get their attention.. much like they did in MN.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
On the surface, I can see why you might feel that way.. but from a manufacturer standpoint, I don't think it would be wise to poke a sleeping bear with a stick if you ask me.... and be at the forefront of any initiative that could alienate both sides. A smarter move would be to support the efforts of those orgainzations that do not have anything to gain or lose by the outcomes. For a major manufacturer to jump in, many would shout foul, as their motives would be in question right off the bat.
Many Manufacturers are taking action, but not in ways that may be apparent. Take Honda for example. They are actively setting up training centers on their own dime. Not only can you get training in ATV and Dirt bike riding skills, they are also including environmental impact training, and demonstrating the effects that ATV's can have on the environment. That is forward thinking if you ask me, and addressing one of the biggest issues that environmental groups are using against us.
They also support the Trails America project.. where many hours of engineering time has been spent studying trail building and maintenence processes, and developing new methods that are much more Earth Friendly.. Again, in reaction to environmental complaints. See the pattern here?
Suzuki and Honda sponsor many trail systems and various jamborees too. The Hatfield/McCoy comes to mind... There are many others out there as well.
So yes they are involved. You just have to know where to look.... and keep this in mind the next time you take your green stuff out of your pocket to make that next purchase.
Posted by: Dragginbutt
This sort of response is playing into their hands... and is one of the biggest problems we have to overcome as a sport.
First of all, let's settle the land ownership versus your right to ride issue... Just because a land owner has not posted his land to cover every possible source of liability, it does not mean a rider can just up and decide he can ride the property. Common courtesy would dictate you making an effort to determine who owns the property and ASKING PERMISSION FIRST.
Whether a sign is available or not, tresspassing is tresspassing period. You are not only breaking the law, but you are violating his rights. What this activity does is get a lot of land owners upset, and they join together to kill all access. When they complain to law enforcement, you can bet the officers are going to enforce the law, and the court system will take their side. All this does is make things worse and add fuel for the critics of our sport to use against us.
As for the world destruction reaction the two of you suggest.. even though I suspect it was made in jest, comments like this are read by others, and do influence some in ways you can't even imagine. I would suggest that you take this anger and frustration and put it to good use in a positive way.
If you have equipment, consider volunteering your time and machinery to help groom, maintain and build trail systems in your area. I am sure that the local trail authority would appreceiate your help. In addition, you might add your voice to the masses by supporting the efforts of many of the organizations involved with the actual legal battles. In short, there are many positive avenues you could be pursuing...ones that get positive results.. instead of adding to the hooligan problem we have today.
Posted by: Speedy2222
btw..besure to read all of it..
Click This
Posted by: Speedy2222
Quote
Originally posted by: blackballed
Not linkable for some reason.....
i'll fix it.. but if i can't you'll have t ocopy and paste it into your browser.
Posted by: Bobman
I think this needs to go beyond riding clubs and dealerships. I think the manufacturers need to get involved on a serious level as they are the only ones with deep enough pockets to fight this type of restriction. If the manufacturers do not get involved soon, they will no longer have a market for ATV's or dirt bikes.
I would suggest that everyone visit the website of every manufacturer and suggest his to them. While it may not prompt them to get involved you will at least know that YOU have done something to get an "interest" with big money involved on our side of the issue.
Bob
Posted by: trailblazermudrunner
Quote
Originally posted by: s2mikey
If they even thinkabout it...I will destroy as much property as possible including politicians lawns, parks, and wherever else I damn feel like it. Maybe a booby trap for the faggot mountain bikers? You betcha, just try it.
I say we start a Terrorist organization since those seem to work great.
I'll play nice until "niceness" fails to work, then I will simply slap on the 589's, put metal studs in them and load up the Brute Force for some destruction.
Have a nice day! hr>
ill be with you with my trailblazer even tho some of the same things are happein up here in maine i cant belive how bad it si getin b/c now you need writen permition to rid on other peoples land even tho its not posted
Posted by: KINGSCLEAR
Man I don't like the sound of that. Banning dirt bikes and Atv.
Posted by: s2mikey
If they even thinkabout it...I will destroy as much property as possible including politicians lawns, parks, and wherever else I damn feel like it. Maybe a booby trap for the faggot mountain bikers? You betcha, just try it.
I say we start a Terrorist organization since those seem to work great.
I'll play nice until "niceness" fails to work, then I will simply slap on the 589's, put metal studs in them and load up the Brute Force for some destruction.
Have a nice day!
Posted by: FrankC
way to get the word out man, your doing your part.
