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Posted by: 95wolv
Sorry to rag on you, but that is just the attitude that will end up getting a lot of our riding areas across the country closed for good,I know some area laws and fees are a drag,but it pales in comparision to losing trail systems forever.These days,more than ever,all riders need to stick together to keep the public on our side, and not enrage the tree nazis with any nose-thumbing of rules and regulations. One reckless rider can ruin it for countless others. Yes, you got away with it this time, but at what cost ??
Just my .02
Posted by: 95wolv
Amen, man, I am with you 100 % I am a member of a local club, and ATVAM,fighting to keep trails and rights open for ALL riders, justifying a breaking of any law with "they just pissed me off" does none of us any good, and as you said, puts more fuel on the tree hugger fires. Every state seems to be having problems lately, and flying off the handle just to sneak one by "the man" shows you and all other riders in a bad light. If you are so adamant about the rules and fees in your area, DO something to change it,join a club,write or call senators and congressmen,get all your friends involved. We all need each other in this war, so lets not start fighting among ourselves.
Posted by: 95wolv
Exactly right,
I never had any intention of pointing the finger squarely at any one person,and starting a big fight,I am merely pointing out that even ONE person can make impressions that stick in everyones mind and cloud there opinion forever. This spring,the Minneapolis Star Tribune ran a HUGE front page picture of a DNR set aside area for atv's to mud in, but the paper posted a big headline "WHEN ATVS TAKE TO THE ROAD,MOTHER NATURE PAYS THE PRICE" not bothering to make it clear the area shown was SUPPOSED to look torn up,the DNR allowed this one area to satisfy the mud hungry crowd. This turned into a 3 day tirade on the evils of ATVs,and the disregard of laws that,according to them,all ATV riders had. These articles have had a profound impact on the public view of our sport,and the DNR has even closed some trails this spring,citing 'wet conditions' as the main reason. One of the big pictures they used against us in that article was picture of Spider Lake trail system,it showed a disgusted trail hiker and his dog standing by a sign that clearly read: NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES PAST THIS POINT, but there,as large as life,were deep,muddy tire ruts from several ATVs. This is the point I was trying to make,the people that disregarded the law and the sign made their point,-ha ha ,you can't stop me from riding where I want- but the tree nazis gleefully snapped a bunch of pictures and presented them to the paper as all the "proof" they needed.Now we in Minnesota are facing not only riding restrictions, but the closures of many of our favorite trail systems. That is why I originally replied,a single act of defiance can sometimes come back to haunt us for a long time.I do apolgize if I offended anyone,it was never my intent to blame,just explain my side of my opinion.
Thank you.
Posted by: mx87trx
Hey ANF you can LOVE ME TENDER!! You can shove your fees too!!!!
Posted by: mx87trx
Next time save your 2 cents for something better. If you dont live and ride in Pennsylvania then you have no idea what I am talking about, or why I would feel so angry in the first place. I am sure you have your own problems in Minnesota, so leave this topic to the Pa folks. Its WAR out here pal!!!!!!
Posted by: mx87trx
Ok before all you guys jump me, you need to read the post about the $35 dollar fee to ride in the ANF. And maybe I need to reword what I said about the war here, its a war every where, but each "battle" is different and has different circumstances. So like I said before if you dont live in PA then you dont know what I am talking about. I will not say I am sorry for riding that trail. And I am sure that the other 20 or so people who also rode it arent regreting anything. If you dont want to read the post mentioned above then dont bother responding.
Posted by: mx87trx
Ok, let me try to put a few things in perspective...I didnt ride the closed trail to break the law or to be a rebel. I was there fishing (which I might add cost me almost $24 to do, but that is a entirely different story) and we wanted to ride....when we got to the trail head and found it closed. I asked "well what the he// are we paying registration for if I cant ride on it". Maybe I did ride the trail out of anger, but my initial intention was not to break the law. The other 20 or so people riding the trail were not with us, let alone even know us. I wasnt riding my quad, the unregistered quad was my brothers, it was his choice not to pay the registration. My quad is strictly for racing and some private property here and there, and I swear on my dear mothers grave I will never pay to ride THAT QUAD.
I just went to the PA DCNR web site and added up the total mileage of public state run trails, a whopping 180 miles. THE LAST TIME I CHECKED, WHICH WAS QUITE AWHILE, WE HAD NEARLY 400,000 QUADS REGISTERED IN THIS STATE!!!! That number doesnt include the number of unregistered quads. So lets see.....180 miles of state owned and operated trails and over 400,000 quads.....that math doesnt really figure to well huh?
Trapper, you should feel privelaged to have places like Glamis and Pismo to ride in the first place. Christ, I am lucky if my neighbors dont call the cops on me for riding down my dead-end street in first gear to get to the trail system. The best place that we had in this area was Hillsville, and look what happened to that. Now being from Cali you would probably laugh at HIllsville if you ever saw it, but it was the best we had. Now its gone, FOR GOOD, and we dont have the luxury of fighting for our lands they just close them. The whole purpose of the Pa registration, which took effect in 2000, was to help build and maintain NEW atv trails. How many miles of NEW atv trails do you think we have after almost 2 years........NONE!!!!
I am alot younger than you, 23, and I have a hard time dealing with this stuff. I cant just sit here and watch everything close around me. I dont really think that local clubs have enough pull or power to do much, and the majority are too worried about being politically correct to get anything done.
THE PA DCNR IS GETTING BLOODY RICH OFF OF US AND WHAT ARE WE GETTING IN RETURN....CLOSED TRAILS AND MANDATORY FEES!!!!
P.S. My final research paper for my junior english class was on this exact subject, it was 12 pages. I can go all night.
Posted by: mx87trx
FINALLY ANOTHER PENNSYLVANIAN SPEAKS UP, ABOUT DANG TIME. I understand where trapper and 95wolv are coming from 100%, but warrior007 has ridden the same trails and been held under the same rules and regulations as me, AND LOOK HOW ANGRY HE IS. I honestly understand that this is a national war, but like I said earlier each battle is more difficult than the other. I believe that in PA we are fighting one of the most, if not THE most, one sided battles in the country. We are a medium sized state with a little under 12 million permanent residents. I believe thats 7th in the country(I may be wrong), but we have barely any riding spots to begin with, now the state fags are actually closing alot of old railway and mine systems, which are completely useless for anything other than riding. Most of these areas are in the older areas of Pa(mid & east). I am in western Pa 3 miles from the Ohio border, and I do about 80% of my riding in Ohio. I think that Ohio may be the most hassle free state to ride.
Pennsylvania is completely out of control. Thats all there is too it, and its sad to say that unless you live in Pa you arent going to agree with me, or even understand how bad it is here.
Posted by: mx87trx
NO I wont be there for Memorial day, in fact I dont think I will be riding in Marienville for a long time. Its just not my kinda riding up there.....although I do enjoy the mountain food and the large intake of alcoholic beverages....lol.
Posted by: mx87trx
Wow, I was really shocked to see this thread resurface after over 3 years. I actually had forgotten about it, mostly due to fact that shortly after I posted it I sold my race bike and quit riding completely. About a month ago I purchased a new yfz450 and all the "old" issues are starting to come back into focus. Since the original post 3 years ago nothing has change here in Pa, rather nothing has changed for the better. Every year the number of atv owners in Pennsylvania increases. Unfortunately the cost of registraion increases, the restrictions on riding get tougher, riding areas close or become untouchable "natural resources", and atv owners are usual viewed as crimials and hellraisers.
Its has come to the point where the only places that i feel legit riding on are motocross tracks. I checked the Pa DNF wbsite a few nights ago and reviewed the trails that were listed there. There are now just over 300 miles of state operated trails in this state. Which admittedly is an increase from 3 years ago, but guess what...it is still not enough. Some websites estimate anywhere from 500-700,000 atvs in Pa now, others claim that nearly 1 in 5 pennsylvanians own an atv, which would make the total over 2 million. Regardless of what the actual number is the situation here looks dismal for atv owners
Posted by: mx87trx
dear god let it go, this topic is over 3 years old and i am still getting crap for it...let it die already, christ
Posted by: mx87trx
no problem buddy
Posted by: trapperb1
You think you're at "war" in PA? Come on out west, amigo. Constant battles for Pismo, we're really gaining ground on Glamis. We're doing it the "right" way also.
You ride in a closed area, you just helped the greens.
And no, it isn't just "your" battle; it's all our battle. Join the BRC. I did. And CORVA. And the ASA.
Put your money up and do it right.
Posted by: trapperb1
Who said we didn't want to read the post? Where did that come from? I obviously read it because it did interest me as to why people would so blatantly do something like that.
No, I don't live in PA, so what?
You can't justify breaking the law because you're angry about having to pay a fee. If you can't afford to pay, DON'T PLAY!
How would you like our fees? Registration on quad $21 every other year. Camping for a weekend at Glamis, $10. Camping for one night in Hungry Valley, $6.
The twenty or so other people that broke the law with you cannot justify what you all did. Didn't your mother ever tell you that "Two wrongs don't make a 'right'"? Think! You're shoving a logical fallacy at me and it isn't going to fly.
Fight back legally. Like I said, put your money up where it'll do some good.
Keep riding in illegal areas, soon, YOU WON'T HAVE ANYWHERE TO RIDE!!
Get a damn clue and wise up!
Posted by: trapperb1
While I agree with your statements regarding "law" to a point, and trust me, I value an individual's right to self-determination, but we are governed. We are also governed by the consent of the people that wish to be a part of this nation. That's the fact. Now neither you or I are experts on the Constitution, but it is the only "right" you have; to be governed by it. Your interpretation of it is fine, but when it comes down to the brass tacks, the Supreme Court has the final adjudication, not you or me. We don't have to like their decisions, we may disagree with them, but they have the final say.
The same goes for each state.
Now, you may try to withdraw from the government, but in reality, look what happened to the people in Montana, Idaho, etc. The government over-rode them. Right or wrong, that's the facts. You can argue philosophy until you turn blue, it won't change facts.
The points I'm argueing here are: 1. they rode on "closed" land, that's illegal (you don't have to like the law) 2. he rode unregistered vehicles on it (against the law again).
If he keeps doing this, more harm than good will be done for the cause of off-roaders in general.
As angry as I am over the land closures out here (I truly understand the anger felt by him) I won't dare go into the closed areas. Why? It's simple; violate the law, lose the land. This is a "no-brainer." I'm really, truly angry; I've been going to Glamis since the late 60's, that's probably longer than most people here have even been alive.
I just happen to be mature enough to know that I am responsible for my actions, and if I choose to break a law, like it or not, I can be held responsible for the consequences.
Now, if you want to try to withdraw and be a "nation" of your own, by all means, go ahead and try.
I don't see Bill Malloy trying to do it, though, do you?
Posted by: trapperb1
mx87trx,
Please accept my apology. Now that you have explained, I understand and ask that you ignore my rants against what you did.
Now then, come on out here and let's do some sand! I'll be glad to show you around!
You may never want to leave!
And what they're doing in PA is despicable.
Posted by: trapperb1
earthraper,
I don't know how familar you are with what is going on regarding Glamis, but, here's a few things;
1. I am an involved member of the ASA (American Sand Association) and this loose-knit organization (that is less than 2 years old with 20,000 members), along with the AMA and CORVA (California Off-Road Vehicle Association) filed suit against the BLM to reopen all of the recently closed areas. The case is moving forward still at this point and the greens are worried.
2. The ASA hired a biologist to count the Milkvetch in the "open" areas and counted over 70,000 plants. He says the plant is not even threatened! This biologist is the same guy that has been hired by the Sierra Club, CBD, etc. and has worked many times in the past to get plants/animals listed as endangered/threatened, etc. so he has credibility with both sides.
3. The BLM is currently holding public meetings for the DRAMP (Desert Recreation Area Management Plan) that will determine how the land is to be used for the next 10-15 years. At the Long Beach, CA, meeting alone, over 800 off-roaders appeared and public comments were taken.
4. The BLM knows at this point they can no longer "railroad" something stupid at us, even with all the pressure from the greens.
We will not lose Glamis. Period.
We are even working on public comments on the EIS (Environmental Impact Statement).
We aren't laying around bitching and not doing anything.
Pismo Beach is in great danger of losing it all. I went to Pismo the first time in '63 and the whole place was wide open. Now, it is less than 2500 acres and very restricted. The Friends of Oceano Dunes are fighting hard but have limited membership/funds/resources. The ASA is helping where it can.
Being a law-abiding citizen has kept all of Glamis from being closed. Up to and including the time of the recent closures, that was the best we could do. We weren't organized. Now we are. We're gaining ground, but each battle is hard.
What we need to do is educate people. Seriously. We need for people that don't off-road to see that we don't really harm the land. Why would we do that? That's stupid. At the next Sand Sports Super Show, I will be working on the ASA's "VIP" program; contacting state assemblymen/senators, federal congressmen, etc., mayors of cities affected by our business, and treating them to a special tour and video presentation of our side of things.
Yeah, the greens have a lot of influence. Check this; Sierra Club membership is over 600,000. Lots of money. Why, they have so much money, the President of the SC is paid close to $200,000 a year. Hmmmmmm. The ASA has 20,000 members, 99% are in California and Arizona. The Board of Directors gets paid (are you ready?) ZIP! ZILCH! NADA! NOT A DAMN CENT! Most of the time they don't even get reimbursed for expenses. They do it for the love of the land and the sport and the whole atmosphere of the community.
I'll quit. Please check out what is going on at www.glamisonline.org or www.americansandassociation.org. There's also a lot of info at www.glamisdunes.com.
Good BBS at them.
Join the ASA. Do it today. IT'S FREE! TO JOIN!
Join the BlueRibbon Coalition. It's nationwide. Only costs $30 for a year. It all helps.
Never give up. Remain angry. Fight back.
And keep a sense of humor.
Posted by: trapperb1
I pretty much think things are worse in the eastern states than out here. Sure, we pay registration for our rides ($21 for 2 years) and some places we have to pay to ride/camp, but, we still have places to ride. See, California is only heavily populated along the coast, so, we have lots of desert to ride in and a lot of mountains. Still, the enviros are trying to shut us down everywhere.
We all need to get organized. That's it. One at a time, they can take us out and we can lose. Even local clubs of 15-20 don't have the facilities/money to fight a good fight. Joining a larger organziation with the money and access to lobbyists, congressmen, etc. is a good way to go.
Think of it; how did the Sierra Club get so powerful? They started as a bunch of radicals that got in the way of things, got some public recognition, got BIGGER. Now they have over 600,000 members contributing money to their cause.
How many off-roaders do you think there are in America? A few million? If we were to get organizied, there would be no stopping us!
At this point, the only national organization I know of is the BlueRibbon Coalition. They're fighting for the rights of watercraft, snowmobiles, off-roaders of all kinds. They're national. I'm a member.
I'm also a member of the ASA (American Sand Association) which is concerned with fighting for access to sand dunes primarily, public access to public land.
I'm also a member of CORVA (California Off-Road Vehicle Association) that is concerned primarily with keeping land here open.
I'm also a member of the AMA (American Motorcycle Association) which is concerned with the rights of motorcycles.
Since we as a group haven't been fighting back long, we're new to this, but we're doing pretty well. We win some battles, keep plugging, confronting the enviros, trying to educate the public that doesn't off-road, etc.
I understand all the anger and frustration. Now channel it effectively and it can be a great tool!
Posted by: M249SAW
mx87trx, It's pointless to argue with some people...as long as you don't ride on private property without the owners permission it's all good. The state and federal "governments" don't own anything and what they claim to own has been stolen. Heres a little something on "the law"....
The “Law”
by Bill Malloy
What about the “law”? Isn't it at least a good idea to try and reach agreement with one another that certain basic rules of conduct with respect to each another ought to be commonly known, and understood? That is a tempting proposition that looks almost indisputable. First, let&39;s analyze what the “law” is. Briefly, the “law” is a threat or command backed by force.
1) “If you do act A, we will do X. If you do not do B, we will do X,” where X is an act of force
(arrest, and subsequent incarceration, trial, and punishment).
2) “If you resist, we will escalate the force necessary to gain your compliance. We will continue
to escalate the use of force up to and including killing you, if necessary.”
Now, at this point the distinction between who initiated force becomes difficult for most people to see. It is hidden by the very belief in “authority”, which implies the right-to-rule. If I have the right to order you around, and I issue you an order to stop doing something, then you are initiating force if you do not obey. However, if I do NOT have the right to order you around, and I tell you to stop doing something you want to do, and further more I threaten to act against you, up to and including lethal force, then I am initiating force against you by making that threat. The “law” is just such a threat. The law itself is an initiation of the use of force, just as any other threat to commit bodily harm is.
Now, it looks different when you start from the obvious reference point of the law that is made as an attempt to enforce a universally accepted morality. The obvious example is, “Do not initiate deadly force against someone,” or don&39;t commit murder. “If you do, we are already committed to using force against you in retaliation.” It is easy to see how people might view that as an a priori justification for responding to the initiation of force. However, that is because the individual confuses his own judgment with that of the state.
It is one thing for an individual, charged by his own judgment with his own self-defense, to issue such a warning. That is honest, and forthright. When a group of people issue that threat, they imply that someone other than the individual has a right to pre-empt the individual&39;s judgment. They remove from the individual any discretion to retaliate or not, depending on his own judgment. In effect, they are superseding his judgment, and therefore negating it before he has a chance to use it. The group (state) is overriding his sovereignty. It is tempting to overlook that fact, especially when dealing with such a clear case when the “law” and popular morality are in agreement.
However, consider the victimless crime laws, such as the prohibition against self-medicating (the euphemism for using drugs), and we find wide latitude for disagreement, because people disagree on the morality of drug use. Yet the “law” makes no distinction between murder or smoking pot when it comes to the ultimate force it is prepared to use. The only difference is the INITIAL reaction to breaking the “law”. For murder, it may well be the threat of death as the initial response: “If you kill someone, we are prepared to kill you in response.” For smoking pot, the initial punishment might be a citation (in California . . .). However, the ultimate punishment, should you disagree with the state and resist its attempt to arrest you, is to escalate the response up to and including killing you, if necessary, to gain compliance.
Therefore, each “law” to be honest might as well state, “If you commit act A, we are prepared to kill you. If you do not do B, we are similarly prepared to kill you.” It sounds okay when that applies to murder. How does it sound when you consider that it also applies to a parking ticket? So, the “law” against smoking marijuana means, existentially, “If you smoke dope, we reserve the right to kill you.” The statist will say over and over, and with every law (especially the tax law), “That&39;s crazy. No one is killed for smoking marijuana (or, not paying taxes).” However, people are killed for resisting arrest, which would not have happened if the “law” had not given some thugs the illusion that they had the right to initiate force against someone simply because the politicians wrote it down on a piece of paper and voted on it.
There is no way around it: The “law” itself represents the initiation of force, and the inevitable result of escalating resistance to that threat is death. Most people do not trace the premises of the “law” back to the base assumptions that make that truth obvious. Instead, they operate under the assumption that the “law” is just, and righteous; that it has “authority”. The widespread acceptance of that belief is quite literally a form of mass hypnosis, a condition that allows people to believe they are necessarily acting morally if they only obey the “law”. Years of behaving under that delusion and having it reinforced by cops, others, the fact that they believe they are acting in accordance with the “law” and the apparent absence of negative consequences for doing so, conspire to harden that acceptance into the illusion of reality.
--Bill Malloy
Posted by: M249SAW
MountainCat, I guess it's just how you want to look at it. The "government" thinks it owns everything but in reality I bought it and I own it. The "government" is just a gang of thugs who practice the act of extorting money or other property from people and it is nothing more then theft. Just because someone steals your car doesn't mean they own it. They may be in possession of it but in the end it doesn't belong to them. The agency most people erroneously identify as "government" today is in reality a gang of lawyers, armed thugs, and con artists backed by an army of bureaucrats, which operates an immense array of protection and other rackets financed through extortion and fraud.
Posted by: Michimaniac
Just saw this thread.
Thanks, trapperb1, for explaining how we live and are governed in a society with rules (good or bad).
If they start to get bad; we fight like hell to change them; educate others and give some extra beer money to groups like the ATVA and Blue Ribbon.
The title of this topic is just like giving printed ammo to every wacko who wants to shut us down.
The only way that abuses in our sport will (sadly) be taken control of is when law enforcement in some of these states start getting the power to confiscate rigs and fine the living heck out of those that believe that whatever the law is; it doesn't apply to them because 'the man screwed 'em'.
Again, thanks for standing up for the way we all want to solve our problems.
John
'00 SP500
Posted by: scootdog
who wants to ride in pa? the last time i was there it was a garbage dump. and to many people.
i`ll hang out west thank you....
Posted by: earthraper
I guess I understand both sides of the arguement. I have stuck my finger in the air and ridden inplaces I shouldn't out of spite too. And I have to say I felt good doing it.
While most of the time I will abide by the laws, I have to ask the poster that has been riding Glamis since the 60's: What has obeying the law gotten you? It's gotten you bent over and hosed. Over a milkweed that is shown to PROSPER WHEN IN THE PRESENCE OF ATV'S. You are going to lose Glamis in it's entirety before this is over. And the ONLY reason for it is because the greens have the influence and can get away with it. With each victory they get a little bolder and present stupider ideas that people buy into. I agree that breaking the law is not really going to accomplish anything, but I don't feel that taking it in stride and being the good citizen is getting us anywhere either. It's a no-win deal.
I do suggest that you take the above mentioned posters advice and write and bitch and moan to your elected officials while there is a republican in the White House. Because when there is another democrat (and there will be) in office, we are going to lose ground in this battle like you cannot imagine.
My .02
Posted by: warrior007
Its too bad about marienvilles trail system, I have been going up there once a year for 5 years (I live all the way across the state)
I agree with you 100% mx87trx, Pennsylvania is out of control, especially when a private resort can get $70,000 of public trail money to build trails for single poker run then turn it into a hiking trail. Thankfully I havent and wont be registering my quad so they havent gotten any of my money other than fuel taxes. Now, if they wanted to get my funds they can collect them where I will be - on the trail.
Pennsylvania is severely mismanaged, all the doctors are leaving, lawsuits are driving corporations out, taxes are driving big business out, registrations and inspections for cars is even out of control (I have had 4 license plates in the last four years) and we have the worst roads in the entire US according to the truckers union. The one thing no one has a problem with is our biggest import - garbage! from newyork and new jersey.. Trash heap of the US!!
"You've got a friend in PA" - who will take out your garbage, and pay through the nose to do it too...
Posted by: warrior007
you hit the nail on the head with the title of this post - priceless
are you going to marienville for memorial day?
Posted by: warrior007
Im still thinking Pa is worse
Sure we have public land to ride, that is funded by registration fees, but we have to pay another fee to ride the land (the fee mentioned in the first post of this thread), yet volunteers and clubs maintain and groom the trails for free? kinda fishy if you ask me.
Posted by: MountainCat
Actually,M249SAW, the goverment owns everything. You do not own any land. If you think you own your land try not paying your land taxes on it and see what happens, the goverment will take your land, put it up for auction and that will be the end of the story. If they want to put a road or highway or airport on your property, all they have to say is this is how much we are going to give you for it. Take it or leave it, but you will be off of this property tehy really do nto even have to give you anything for it. The goverment owns it all, you just rent it.
Posted by: MountainCat
I would definitely check and see where the registration fees are beign used because you should not have to be payign for something that is not going to benefit atv users! And start looking for other CT ATV users and form a club and start writing your congress and see what a group can get done!
Posted by: MountainCat
Tre Huggers at work!!!!!! What if they passes a law that said you could not touch any trees public lands. I wonder how the tre huggers would feel then!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: AndyC
well if you think pa is bad let me tell you all a story, i have a 200x that i just registered, i live in connecticut, after i had registered my 3 wheeler i found out that the state of ct has NO riding areas established for atv, motorcycle or off road use, so what do i do? do i continue to pay registration fees and yearly taxes or do i just ride and hope i dont get caught on land im not supposed to be on?? and where are my registration fee's going??? CT STINKS !!!!!!
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Well, I resisted the urge for quite a while now... Lets see.... angry young man refuses to conform.. yeah that sounds like a good start to a homework assignment.... Let's set a few things out on the table for comment shall we...
1) Numbers of registered ATV's in the great state of PA is misleading. They actually contain a sizable number of out of state residents... as several states like Virginia do not have registration programs.. nor do they have or use funds for trail building, maintenence etc... If Virginians want to ride in another state that requires a registration.. they either have to register in that state or find another one that will take their money. Case in point.... I tried to ride in WISCONSIN last year... but because I live in Virginia, where there is no registration, I had to either register it in WISCONSIN and pay Sales TAX all over again, or find a state that I can register it in... in this case PA was the cheapest choice. IT didn't matter to WISCONSIN that I was born there, owned property there, and had only stepped foot in my home state maybe 2 times in the past 30 years... and it didn't matter that I wanted to ride on my own land... so I chose not to play...
2) I think everyone agrees that the sport is in the fight for it's life. Those of you that live in states where the local government is taking action to "support" or at least recognise the existance of the sport in general... well, you are at an advantage compared to those of us who live in states that ignore us totally.
The real challenge is how to take this anger and frustration and bend it into something useful, and something that will induce change. You say you won't pay the registration fee.. well then, don't complain about trails being closed.. in many cases because of lack of funding. Some may say that the state is misusing funds... then what are you doing about it? Did you contact local authorities and hold their feet to the fire? Did you join your voice to that of many local groups that are fighting this and many other ATV access related battles in court, and in the media?
No you say? Well then why not. You indicate you are young... and have friends that feel like you do... and you think you do not have a voice or can't do anything to make a change.... oh so wrong.... Didn't they teach you anything in Civics?
Does it surprise you when older people feel that young people just don't care? Well, if you don't care enough to get yourself involved and use the system to your benefit to effect change... I can see how people might question your sincerity..
None of this is easy... and you will lose more battles that you win... but the important thing is to get involved and make a difference.. and support those programs that are in place that support the sport you love. If that means paying a fee every year.. then so be it. With that payment, you have a certain amount of expectation that the funding will be used to expand your sport. Let them know you are watching where that money is being spent.
The answer to this and many other issues... is YOU. The choice is yours to make... Lead, Follow, or get the he# out of the way....
Posted by: Dragginbutt
Sadly, I think we as a group have earned a lot of the bad blood by either our direct actions, or our lack of taking action... Too often, not only in print media, but on forums like this, you have riders jokingly talk about their antics... bragging even about running from law enforcement etc... What tehy do not realize is that the officer doing the chasing is being put at risk. I wonder how someone would feel if they knew of a police officer being injured or killed while "Chasing" one of us... Imagine having to walk up to the guy's spouse, or kids and telling htem that Daddy isn't coming home because he was chasing an ATV. It happens.
The bottom line in my book is pretty clear. We as a group need to band together to protect our rights to ride... and we need to correct fellow riders when they act irresponsibly.
For those that are listening... I wonder how long it would have taken searchers to find that lost boy in Utah if it weren't for the use of ATV's. Probably would have had a different outcome too...
Posted by: Dragginbutt
It might depend on the amount of funding being spent on maintaining your state's trail programs etc... hard to say... might be worth looking into though...
Posted by: ElectricShift
how come you can spend thousands on a quad and cant spend 35 dollars a year to ride legally
Posted by: ElectricShift
sorry man i didn't realize how old it was
i feel stupid now LOL
Posted by: weez440
i am happy for all the riding i get to do but the majority of it is on gravel roads. alot of land here is swamp and the tree hugging hippies don't want us to have trails through this crap land that nobody wants to look at because of the mosquito infestation or just because it is miserable and wet. i pay for my registration all the time cause i put on a great amount of miles every year and the last thing i need is to get harassed for no registration so it is just cheap to not get hassled with. my parents on the other hand the only time these atv's are used is on our farmland or on our hunting land both private establishments and neither are registered one is a 200 honda foreman and the other a 2003 honda foreman. and by law if you run it on your own land and only use it on your own land you don't have to register but if that money actually went to making trails for us up here i know that both of them would be registered.
Posted by: quadduck
Sounds like three years tends to mature thy rebellious riders.
Posted by: Lon
I'll gladly pay my $35 every year to ride the Timberline, and the other trails at the ANF. The place is a treat to ride, and if it costs me $100 a year for my two sons and I to ride, then fine. Your trails are as nice as I've seen, even compared to those in my home state. We really enjoy riding in PA, particularly in the ANF. I know it's costly to all of us that use it, but at least it doesn't fall entirely on the backs of all Pennsylvanians, which surely would be cause for discussion.
One thing I have seen though... PA ATV registration is around $20 for two years. Ohio's is $8 for three years. I'm not sure how that compares across the country, but it does appear that PA is a little on the high side in terms of registration. In terms of the use fees... everyone pays the same to ride in the ANF.
Posted by: DeeDawg
Ya'll make me thankful for the area I do most of my riding in. I can ride to and from many small towns on trails and roads and not have any trouble with the law. The DNR did try to close a trail, but that got beat down by the locals. The small towns like the wheelers 'cuz they bring in $$$ for hotels, gas, food, etc.
Posted by: TMAN151
I had to pay a crap load of $ to have my quads registered in NY and we dont have any riding areas here. We have to go to PA just to ride and We're happy to pay the $35 to go there.
